Tekken Tag Tournament 2/Jin/Crouching Demon Stance Breakdown
This page sums up the basics of Jin's two stances, the moves from them, their intricacies and how to use them. This is by no means a definitive guide, and you should probably also play around with Jin to have a better understanding of them.
Jin has two versions of CDS in this game, the classic Mental Alertness 2 (b+1), and Zenshin (d+1+2). For brevity, I'll mention them as CDS and ZEN throughout this guide, respectively. Keep in mind that though the moves from both stances are the same, they are slightly altered due to the stance - more on it under the moves section.
Introduced in Tekken 5. Jin goes back one step and goes low while doing the mental alertness motion with his hands. CDS is a stand-alone stance, you have to manually input b+1 to do the stance. Startup on the stance is 5 frames. Evades highs starting from 4f for 38 frames, so you can use it as an evasive move.
CDS can be cancelled at any point in its animation. The cancels available for CDS are -
- CDS~f : CDS into a dash. Doing b+1~f+2 will make Jin do f,f+2. Works like any other dash, which means it can be cancelled into a crouchdash, a sidestep or any of Jin's moves.
- CDS~df : CDS into a crouchdash. b+1~df+2 will give a WHF, b+1~df+1 will give a cd+1 etc. This is useful for when you use it to whiff highs and want to punish; it will be covered in another sub-section. The crouch dash is a regular crouch dash, you can cancel it into anything like a normal one (even into iws).
- CDS~df~b : The Royalflush Shimmy. A slight modification of the above, this is CDS into a back step. Is unsafe for the first three frames, and is completely safe for the rest of the animation if you hold B after the cancel.
Introduced in TTT2. Jin takes a step FORWARD and does the mental alertness motion with his hands. The stance can be entered either manually using d+1+2, or after holding f after some moves on block. Contrary to popular belief, doing ZEN manually sometimes evades jabs, though is very inconsistent. Startup on the stance if you do it manually is 10 frames, and frames for transition into it depends on the move.
Moves that allow transition into ZEN -
- f+4 (fastest and most useful)
ZEN can also be cancelled at any point in its animation. The options are -
- ZEN~df : ZEN into a crouchdash. Unless you want to cover some space from a distance using d+1+2~df or just want to show off, it isn't quite awfully useful.
- ZEN~df~b : The Hao Cancel. Provides the main mixups that utilize ZEN. Primarily used after f+4~f and b+3~f. More on it under mixups.
Jin has 5 moves from his stances. Depending on what stance you do a move from, its property changes. Listed are the move's general properties, followed by how each stance changes its properties and usability. To know how fast a move from a stance will be, add the move's startup to the stance's startup. (CDS = 5f, ZEN = 10f)
Spine Cracker (1,2)
Mid-mid, delayable, hit confirmable, natural combo that knocks down. Your staple mid from the stances. Comes out in 16 frames not including the stance startup. 1 is -3 on block, and 1,2 is -14 on block.
CDS 1,2 is somewhat of a negative range move - the 2 can whiff if you delay too much. You can evade things with b+1 and then confirm your punish with 1<2. Also works as a straight up mixup with the Sweep.
ZEN 1,2 has a good amount of range, though doing it makes it slower at 26 frames. Works as a juggle ender (b+3~ZEN 1,2) and as a straight mixup with the Sweep. ZEN 1 tracks 180 degrees.
Swaying Willow (2)
Jin takes a sidestep and does a straight mid that gives a violent knockdown. This move eats jabs for breakfast, however is prey to homing mids and ewgf. 22f startup, -14 on block, and if they don't backroll you get a free dash d+2.
The added evasiveness of CDS with the move's sidesteps makes CDS 2 the definitive jab/duckjab killer. Use it against jab-happy players.
ZEN 2 isn't particularly great, but has its uses after a transition from a move. For example, f+4~ZEN 2 kills jabs and some non-tracking mids. More on it in the mixups section.
Leaping Side Kick (3)
Probably the most useless move from the stances. It is high and a low crush, so it will miss all high crush lows if done at the same time, defeating the very purpose of crushing. 22f startup. Roughly +8 on block, and gives a free f,f+2 on hit. There is no reason why anyone would use this over the Sweep. Seriously, don't use it unless the opponent doesn't know it's a high, in which case enjoy the +8.
Low sweep (duh). 22 frames, high crush, knocks down, gives a free grounded hit (ws+4~3). In some cases a ws+4, 1,3~3 can be done if the opponent runs into it or is doing a move that makes his character move forward while doing so. If the opponent's back is against a wall and you land this, you get a full bound combo with ws+1,2. -18 on block, so you're going up if it is predicted.
CDS 4 goes under jabs, and sometimes if the opponent is doing jabs can make the ws+4, 1,3~3 combo possible.
ZEN 4 works with ZEN 1,2 as a mid-low mixup. ZEN moves Jin forward as well, so it's highly likely that if you manage to get it with the opponent moving forward, you will get the ws+4, 1,3~3 combo. Also, ZEN 4 done as a tag assist at the wall pops the dummy off the wall, making double resplat combos possible with Jin as assist.
Double High Uppercut (1+2)
Best new move Jin has got in this game and fastest move from CDS. High-high, two hit launcher. Comes out at 13(!) frames without the stance, and is -16 with pushback on block, which means some characters can punish it (Dragunov gets a launcher!). Juggles off of it cop upto 95+ damage, and 100+ if you tag in your high juggle damage partner. Awful whiff recovery, so you're going up on whiff.
CDS 1+2 is an excellent way to use CDS' high evasion. Press b+1, watch as jabs fly over your head and launch them with 1+2. An instant CDS~1+2 is barely 18 frames, so if you're fast enough you can punish things like Bob's shoryuken with this. Think of it as a high crush version of d+3+4 that hits high, is 3f slower and much safer.
ZEN 1+2 doesn't really have a use as is, but plays a key role in transition mixups involving ZEN, as it is the fastest move from the stance. If you happen to evade jabs with a raw ZEN, close your eyes and throw this out.
You can use the stances to do serious damage to your opponent, both in-game and morally. The info that follows is not exhaustive, you can come up with your own colorful ways to use CDS and/or ZEN. The names are also not definitive, call them whatever you want.
The hurr durr mixup
Use ZEN at a distance, and keep out with ZEN 1+2 or 1,2. Once they stop trying to hit you back with you in ZEN, use ZEN~df to close in. I've had little success with this so far, and to be honest this probably really won't work against a good opponent, but hey.
Stance low/mid 50:50 (Hello I am here)
This mixup is a simple 50:50 - Enter a stance and do either 4(low) or a hit-confirmed 1<2(mid). It is especially dangerous when the opponent is against a wall, as both options, if successful, lead to great damage. The best suited stance for this is ZEN, as it moves forward, though against a wall you can do either stance. Throw in a delay, or do it instantly; create +f and use it, or use it as a tech trap; it's very versatile, go nuts.
My favourites are EWHF (blocked), CDS 4_[1<2] against the wall, and using it as a tech trap.
CDS evasion (Goodbye I am gone)
Utilizing CDS evasion with moves as a bait to shut down the opponent. Moves that are -6 or more on block are the best baits to throw this into. Throw the bait and go straight into CDS. Once blocked, the opponent might want to attack back, only to see his jabs went right over your head, and then proceeded to get hit by either CDS 1+2, CDS~df+1(cd+1) or CDS 1,2. This helps shut down jabs, and gives you a breathing space, enough to take control of the match again. Also it won't hurt you to know that at neutral frames, CDS~df+1 completely beats Steve's 1,2,1. Pair this with the punch parry to mess up the opponent's openings.
If the opponent does something to hit you out of CDS completely, you throw out something like a df+1 or an EWHF to stop them. When the opponent stops attacking you back after the bait is blocked, you can cancel the CDS into a dash to maintain your range, or do the Royalflush Shimmy to retreat.
f+4~ZEN (Hao r yu?)
Named after Hao who was the one to bring the mixup into mainstream. The mixup opens opportunities into other mixups, and involves f+4.
f+4~ZEN on block is only -1, so if they do anything that is not a 14f move, it gets beat straight out by ZEN 1+2. If the opponent does do jabs to stop your options, you can just Hao cancel and block them safely, or crush with ZEN 2 or ZEN 4. In fact, f+4~ZEN~df~b is barely -6 on block, so you can go straight into CDS evasion mixup. And when the opponent stops attacking you after blocking f+4~ZEN, you can either go straight into stance low/mid 50:50, or even Hao cancel and do another f+4~ZEN into "Hao r yu".
Stacking the mixups together like this can really frustrate the opponent and he will most likely end up throwing the controller into the display, so make sure you play at your friend's place, not yours. Also, it will eventually mess with the opponent's mind and you can also get away with "The hurr durr mixup".
f+4~ZEN is the best move to use "Hao r yu" with due to the range and the CH combo possibility. You can also do "Hao r yu" using b+3~ZEN, a range 0-1 14f mid; however I prefer to use something like EWHF at that range.
Both of Jin's stances allow him to be either offensive or defensive, depending on how you wish to play. Again, this is by no means a definitive guide, and there are endless ways you may include CDS and/or ZEN into your gameplay. If you have any suggestions or questions, feel free to post at the forums! Enjoy this little video on the topic