Baek vs. ______

Page Splits 123>...5
Share This Topic
Share
Subscribe/Jump Subscribe This Topic
< >
nf0x
Sage
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 475
From: USA California
#1 “Quote” Edit Post
UPDATED JUNE 29th!!

King- Sigh. Ok, this one is tough. For starters, he has the throw/launcher mixup of dr. Duck and eat hop kick, or stand and eat giant swing? You do have a third option, and that is staying away. There are many ways to play king with baek, and the most successfull for me is staying at mid range, just out of b+1's reach. At this range, king is surprisingly limited. When he does get in on you, use a lot of d/f+1. Snake kicks works well against king, just dont get caught to many times ending with 3, because you will get countered. Simple yet effective snake kick mixup against king: ending with 3, canceling into fla throw, and canceling into b+4. Watch for his wd into clothesline throw, it's a 1+2 break and it's fast. Sidestepping king is risky, so use fla step only as a spacing tool. If you do back him into a wall, as a former king player, I can assure you what they want more then anything is to land a giant swing and wall spalt you, so be ready to tech.

Jin- He is in my opinnion, a unique character in dr. He has great pokes, awesome launchers, quick lows, decent juggles and wall games, along with adequete okizeme. However, what he lacks is an 8 frame jab. Poke this sucka to death. Poke and run. Poke and run. Poke and run. He has a wr launcher which will own your offensive game, so dont be offensive. Jin has one all purpose tracking move, his f+4. If you think he's going for his 1,2,3 string (which is is abused beyond belief), ss that stuff. His jab isn't 8 frames, so it's a free juggle for you. This match isn't one you should worry too much about, Jin has to work twice as hard as you. You are incredibly more mobile, your launchers far more threatening, and your outfit much cooler (2p that is).

Lee- This match tends to be more tricky then it should. A few rules: don't use b+4, lee can launch you on block. Rarely block low, and i'm talking rare at best. The damage you will recieve from his new low is nowhere near worth guessing wrong and eating a wall combo for 75%. The low you do need to watch out for is his slide. The speed isn't ammazing, and it can be intterupted by baek's faster mids if you can get it at startup. It's one of those moves that trying to react to will get you killed, so the only real way to stop it is to limit the opportunities for when it can be used. Keep in mind that it has no use against an agressive baek who is in his face. Make your d/f+1's random as hell. Make sure they dont whiff and you're golden. Also, lee vs baek commonly breaks down to who can launch the other, and personally I think this is the worst thing you can do. Don't get into a launch war with lee; your lows are slower, launchers slower, and pokes less damaging. When was the last time you saw lee win a match without a juggle?

Steve- As stupid as ever. I'm not a steve pro, but whatever they took away from him didn't seem to hinder his game much at all. The only real solution for dealing with steve for most characters is crushing low. IMO, steve has far too many strings with quick mids for me to randomly throw out baek's sweep. Duck jab has always been my go to poke for getting a second to breathe against steve. I wouldn't suggest too much FLA mixup at point blank, as steve is quite the counter hitter. Your best bet is to ground him and make him guess between chop and snake kicks. Dont punch parry, more often then not you are going to get socked in the head. Until steve is grounded, you might as well be playing 5.1 Baek, just keep that in mind.

Remember his spin movements, be ready to break w/ 1+2. and keep in mind that whenever you see him do u/f+3+4, duck and as soon as he hits the ground your guarantted damage is there w/ d+4,3,3..._d+3,3,n+3_ws+3~f~d+2 or whatever... if u/f+3 is being whored, use your sidewalk - it's important w/ Baek - you can mess around and get behind people and cause incredible damage in the back -Stringer

Law- I play law in the same style I play lee, safely. The damage law can dish out off of the smallest opening is quite high. After about 10 mins of getting my ass beat, I realized that there is no reason to duck against law. He has d/b3 and his d/b4 sweep. Big deal. Eat a few d/b3's, who cares? The sweep is what complicates things. It's not too hard to react to and a low parry is required if you want to punish with a launch, which is what you want to do. Don't get into a launch war with him, as with lee their launchers are far less risky, and they will throw random shit and not have to worry against baek's slow crap. Law is fairly easy to sidestep; only a handful of his useful moves track. The trouble comes with his 1+2 break throw. He get's a combo, so it's like getting hit with a launcher, so break dat shit. His range game isn't too usefull against baek since baek is poke and run. All forms of his dragon kick (ff+3, d+1+2,3) can be punished on block with 1+2,4. Very usefull to not have to worry about this move.

Nina- From 5.0 to DR, shes taken a serious nerfbat to the face. Jesus Jump (u/f+1) is a new move entirely. It wont combo, and it's around 50% weaker. Also, her juggles do considerably less damage. Baek can take a few more risks in this match up; as long as you don't dilly dally in FLA, mixup your safe moves (duck jab, b+3, d/f+1, d/f+4,4) and you should be all right. Also, don't forget about FLA throw, it will get teched, but it's worth it every now and again. Don't get too anxious to interupt her d/f+1 block strings, depending on how good the nina player is, they'll read you like a book. If you're seeing something that looks like a hole in the chain, chances are your ass is about to get baited. Unless you know what you can duck jab, and what you can snake kick, be patient.

Heihachi- i play heihahci, but not baek, keep in mind ewgf is a high, so you can get your low sweep if they abuse it, but if you block it he gets +5 on frames. Wave dashing with heihachi if not cancelled can be punished by any characters u/f+4 launcher. and heihahci is easily ss, his two tracking moves are tgf and fc, d/f+4 and that only tracks to his right. just be sure to cancell you ss or you'll be eating a tgf or otgf. -Blindrage

When you see hei wavedash, do not overreact. d+1 beats everything he can do out of wavedash, so at least know that you can stop it 100% of the time if you want to. Abusing snake kicks will result in you eating 1,1,2 a lot, so use it in moderation. WR 4,4 is a pretty decently effective and safe poke . Realistically, you can follow it up with 3, fla, or nothing.

Dragunov- Drag plays somewhat linear, with a few moves that track well enough to stop fla abuse. He does not have a solid way to counter your snake kick mixup (like feng shoulder), but he can lock you down surprisingly well. d+1 is really his worst enemy, as his only way around it close range is his hopkick which does not launch. IF YOU EVER SEE HIM GETTING READY TO SWEEP, ALWAYS U/F+4. If he continues with the sweep, or cancels it into throw, u/f+4 hits. Do not use punch parry. The last thing you want to do is give Drag a counter hit, as most will lead to 50% damage. d/f+4,4 works well here too.


My goal with this thread is to comprise concise and efficient ways for Baek to deal with each of the characters in DR.


I'll attempt to update this first post with as much info as I can based on posts in this forum. On updating, the last thing I would want to do is take credit from players for their own material. If you have a solid piece of info (ex: SS kills bruce), i'll give you credit on the first post. Hopefully this thread picks up, considering right now it's at 36 views, 0 responses . Thanks.

-Nick

Last edited by nf0x on Jun 29th, 2006 at 09:34

Signature "What It Do-San"
schabit
Burning Knuckle.
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6645
From: USA Minnesota
PSN: schabit
#2 “Quote” Edit Post
Well against steve when i see him do his spin to mid punch/low punch mixup i always just uppercut him out of it. Do alot of d+1's to stop his offense and regain the initiative.

The local nina player at my arcade abuses ss+2 to no end. If I ever do a flamingo cancel he automatically does ss+2 cuz it will sidestep most of the strings out of flamingo... so i abuse snake kicks alot cuz they track and will hit nina out of her ss+2.

Dragonov is jab punishable for alot of his strings. Block some strings he does and punish with jabs. Block his uppercut and punish with jabs. Just have to be patient.

Thats all i can really offer. Hope that helps.
Signature | Team MN MySpace Site | TMFB | SW Shark |
[X] Charming
[X] Sexy
[_] Boring
[X] Awesome
Stringer
nothing to lose
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1727
From: United States
#3 “Quote” Edit Post
I'll post more later but Imma start by sayin stay the fuck away from d/f+3,4 against (a smart) Nina, f+3 will punish fire out that shit(know that it is -13 on block even tho it gives benefits on CH) - , in fact f+3 will punish hella shit on block... anything like ws+4,4,3_ws+3,4,4,3_d/f+4,4,3, etc f+3 will punish on block. f+3 is another anti-Baek so be careful of what you do against Nina not only does she have f+3 but as schabit said ss+2 will take care of those particular moves too so d+3,3 will track it down...

once you figure Sergei out, you'll see that Baek is actually really good against him, Baek doesn't have it as bad as Eddy against Dragunov even tho' IMO Eddy's easily one of the best in the whole game

remember his spin movements, be ready to break w/ 1+2. and keep in mind that whenever you see him do u/f+3+4, duck and as soon as he hits the ground your guarantted damage is there w/ d+4,3,3..._d+3,3,n+3_ws+3~f~d+2 or whatever... if u/f+3 is being whored, use your sidewalk - it's important w/ Baek - you can mess around and get behind people and cause incredible damage in the back (1,2,3,4,3_3,4,3 into back juggles)

and Baek's u/f+4 is only jab punishable, and when it hits you can do serious damage here too and add the wake-up things in w/ it, shit is bananas...

Last edited by Stringer on Apr 12th, 2006 at 22:17

Orichalcon
Expert
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 129
From: USA Illinois
#4 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Stringer
I'll post more later but Imma start by sayin stay the fuck away from d/f+3,4 against (a smart) Nina, f+3 will punish fire out that shit(know that it is -13 on block even tho it gives benefits on CH) - , in fact f+3 will punish hella shit on block... anything like ws+4,4,3_ws+3,4,4,3_d/f+4,4,3, etc f+3 will punish on block. f+3 is another anti-Baek so be careful of what you do against Nina not only does she have f+3 but as schabit said ss+2 will take care of those particular moves too so d+3,3 will track it down...

once you figure Sergei out, you'll see that Baek is actually really good against him, Baek doesn't have it as bad as Eddy against Dragunov even tho' IMO Eddy's easily one of the best in the whole game


i never really understood why people do d/f+3,4 when just plain d/f+3 is better on hit and on block frame-wise, and doing the 4 will waste the CH d/f+3
Signature "When the dragons grow too mighty
To slay with pen or sword
I grow weary of the battle
And the storm I walk toward"
Stringer
nothing to lose
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1727
From: United States
#5 “Quote” Edit Post
yea, right? d/f+3 is -11 on block, only jab punishable besides like u said this is where u can get the good damage... adding the 4 when d/f+3 counter spoils everything

to add on to that the following 4 doesn't even stun no more, and on top of that it is bait for reversals, damn punishable, and Wang's b+1. the only good thing you can get out of it is if someone is to the wall and just luckily get the 4 to hit on CH, even so shit ain't all that

only thing that worries me about d/f+3 on block is them Natural Mishimas that can EWGF rather fast even tho' the dashing itself will make it more frames...

OH... and depending on who your fightin' if you delay d/f+3<4 eight framers interrupt the delay, I'm sure certain cats knew that tho'
Orichalcon
Expert
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 129
From: USA Illinois
#6 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Stringer
yea, right? d/f+3 is -11 on block, only jab punishable besides like u said this is where u can get the good damage... adding the 4 when d/f+3 counter spoils everything

to add on to that the following 4 doesn't even stun no more, and on top of that it is bait for reversals, damn punishable, and Wang's b+1. the only good thing you can get out of it is if someone is to the wall and just luckily get the 4 to hit on CH, even so shit ain't all that

only thing that worries me about d/f+3 on block is them Natural Mishimas that can EWGF rather fast even tho' the dashing itself will make it more frames...

OH... and depending on who your fightin' if you delay d/f+3<4 eight framers interrupt the delay, I'm sure certain cats knew that tho'


....that's why i said "i never understood why people do d/f+3,4" because d/f+3 is better, i already knew all that, like i said, just plain d/f+3 is better on hit AND block

the only reason i can think of to add the 4 is if you are afraid of whiffing the 3 and getting launched

you basically just confirmed what i just said....lol (maybe that's what you were trying to do, but the first part seemed sarcastic to me so maybe you just misinterpreted my post)
Signature "When the dragons grow too mighty
To slay with pen or sword
I grow weary of the battle
And the storm I walk toward"
Stringer
nothing to lose
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1727
From: United States
#7 “Quote” Edit Post
no sarcasm homie, I was agreein' w/ you
Orichalcon
Expert
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 129
From: USA Illinois
#8 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Stringer
no sarcasm homie, I was agreein' w/ you


ah, i'm an idiot, maybe i should of read the subject of the post
Signature "When the dragons grow too mighty
To slay with pen or sword
I grow weary of the battle
And the storm I walk toward"
nf0x
Sage
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 475
From: USA California
#9 “Quote” Edit Post
Good stuff people.

The d/f+3 thing has always confused me too, sorta funny.

Stringer - I think you're right with Dragunov, you just have to feel him out. But at the same time, he's a good character who in my opinnion should be played against with caution.

Yesterday, I discovered that a double ss will totally own sergai's summersault. Single ss will get hit by the fatty hitbox, but a double sails right around it.

Keep it comming!

How about the characters that got buff upgrades like feng and heihachi?
Signature "What It Do-San"
Stringer
nothing to lose
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1727
From: United States
#10 “Quote” Edit Post
well you already know that you should always backdash once you block d/f+1
NEVER EVER attack after it, fuck around you'll prolly eat a ss+4, b+1, another d/f+1, etc. if you so happen to catch a whiff punish it

if u get hit by d/f+1, ws+4 or ws+1,2,1 while crouching
TECH ROLL if you don't you'll be sorry if it's an experienced Feng

to the wall use 3+4~f,n+4,4, d+2
1+2, 4_d/f+2 or b+4 any other time
u/f+4 is 20 frames and isn't really a whiff punisher

ws+4 into d/b+3, here's where you use u/f+4 to crush d/b+3
or you can parry and get b+4 or u/f+3,4,3 for damage and territory advantage
(Baek is very good w/ walls)

try not to whiff against Feng because b+1+2 is too easy to do
Machinez
Iron Fist God
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1203
From: USA California
PSN: Machinez_BT
#11 “Quote” Edit Post
drag is more punishable than at first glance. d/f+2 and his WS launcher are jab punishable meaning baek gets the 11....mixup madness.

1,1:
====> throw....one of my favorites is the d/b+1+3 as the throw is buffered with the 2nd 1.
====> f,2,1....guaranteed string and is uninteruptable after successful 1,1 use this one if they like ducking after being hit with 1,1
====> d/f+4,4.....also uninteruptable after successful 1,1 with fla options afterwards. use this one if they still wanna attack after being hit with 1,1...(CH, both will connect for nice dmg)
====> d+4,(3,3,3).....also uninterupable but i try to stay away from this as it's punishable inside and out.....but worth the risk if they've been ducking the throws way to much afterwards....they will block the low but you won't get WS launched.

also another thing about drag....his sweeper cancel into throw garbage can be completly stopped with just a uf+4 as soon as you see the animation.....if it's the low the uf+4 crushes....if he cancels into the throw....it doesn't grab you outta the air launch city.

also this is just me but i like baiting a punishable WS move with 1,2,3,4....the low seems to hit alot of people but when someone knows to block it, it's safe against being launched. free 1,1

sorry feng owns baek inside and out....by far his worst matchup. shoulder owns everything baek does. beating a good feng who knows baek is tough. you can NEVER use albatross OR baeks rush against feng. all a feng player needs to do is wait to see what you're going to do

cd_ws 4,4: punishable by shoulder
cd_ws 4,4,3: shoulder
d+4,3:shoulder
d+4,3,3: shoulder
d+4,3,3,3: shoulder
d+4,3,3,d+3......EVEN ON HIT IS SHOULDER! one of the few moves in tekken where on hit is disadvantage.

play safe against feng and remember that d/f 4,4 and the ws_cd+3,4,4 versions are the only ones safe when ended. try using these if they are shoulder punishing happy for a free launch

hell i don't know if i helped anyone im just babbling and it's late....peace
Signature Member of the BigTymer crew
Baek Doo San: Stylin' By Machinez
Stringer
nothing to lose
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1727
From: United States
#12 “Quote” Edit Post
one little thing
against Marduk(this dude is frightening this time around)...

don't crush his jabs w/ d/b+4 because 1, d+2 will interrupt the sweep
crush w/ d+3,3 against Marduk's jab to ensure Baek is not hit by the following d+2 if the Marduk player decides to throw it out

and try not to whiff against him because d/f+3, d+1 is just too easy to do as a whiff punisher

f,2,1....guaranteed string and is uninteruptable after successful 1,1 use this one if they like ducking after being hit with 1,1


I hope y'all took this in, on block you can follow w/ parry in case of low jab happy niggas

Last edited by Stringer on Apr 15th, 2006 at 14:50

BadMojoGoGo
Clash 2007 Champion
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2761
From: USA New York
PSN: BadMoJoGoGo
#13 “Quote” Edit Post
yeah yeah yeah.
Signature Team New York
Team HATE
Team Evolution
Team 6'2''
Stringer
nothing to lose
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1727
From: United States
#14 “Quote” Edit Post
this dude...

Last edited by Stringer on Apr 16th, 2006 at 17:35

nf0x
Sage
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 475
From: USA California
#15 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Stringer
one little thing
against Marduk(this dude is frightening this time around)...

don't crush his jabs w/ d/b+4 because 1, d+2 will interrupt the sweep
crush w/ d+3,3 against Marduk's jab to ensure Baek is not hit by the following d+2 if the Marduk player decides to throw it out

and try not to whiff against him because d/f+3, d+1 is just too easy to do as a whiff punisher



I hope y'all took this in, on block you can follow w/ parry in case of low jab happy niggas


Interesting find indeed.

Awesome strats to all posters. I'm still trying to find a way to beat a good Hei or DJ. Not sure if there is one.
Signature "What It Do-San"
Stringer
nothing to lose
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1727
From: United States
#16 “Quote” Edit Post
it turns out that Steve has too much shit for Baek to run up and attack, so that's out off gate. u got to sell out to turtling - no that turtling then attackin' shit, you'll mess around and get rocked for mad damage, NOT WORTH IT ESPECIALLY W/ BAEK (OR HWOARANG for that matter). you got to sit there and wait for openings and whiffs, create whiffs and punish, shit like that...

stay away from jabbing too much, Steve has a parry.
Steve punishes d+4,3,3 on block do not do at will ONLY WHEN YOU KNOW IT WILL HIT(think wake up) d+3,3 crushes Steve's highs, ss into whatever else can also help

watch for lows, the rule of the game for Baek to win against Steve, TURTLING
BLOCK MORE ATTACK LESS...simple fact

b+1 OWNS d/f+3 into FLA free, don't do it at will

LOTS OF GRABS

1+2+3+4 into d/f+3 can force some good damage

http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/forum...?threadid=84775
nf0x
Sage
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 475
From: USA California
#17 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Stringer
it turns out that Steve has too much shit for Baek to run up and attack, so that's out off gate. u got to sell out to turtling - no that turtling then attackin' shit, you'll mess around and get rocked for mad damage, NOT WORTH IT ESPECIALLY W/ BAEK (OR HWOARANG for that matter). you got to sit there and wait for openings and whiffs, create whiffs and punish, shit like that...

stay away from jabbing too much, Steve has a parry.
Steve punishes d+4,3,3 on block do not do at will ONLY WHEN YOU KNOW IT WILL HIT(think wake up) d+3,3 crushes Steve's highs, ss into whatever else can also help

watch for lows, the rule of the game for Baek to win against Steve, TURTLING
BLOCK MORE ATTACK LESS...simple fact


Stringer, I dono about this. Steve wants you to turtle, in fact, his whole game revolves around the assumption that his oponnent (you) will be blocking for the duration of the round. Baek's biggest downside is his lack of a fast, mid hitting launcher, and that is why this matchup is so damn hard. This is soley from my experience, but I truly believe that turtling up against steve is virtually accepting defeat.

Move around A LOT. At the start of the round, sidestep then block. If he keeps his distance, start ss'ing to your right. Four out of five times, steve is going to do ff,f+2 to close the distance. This move can be double ss'd by Baek rather easily, resulting in a juggle, something you wont get many of in this match. Random d/f+2's will not work here, focus on pokes instead of juggles for this matchup. Try to keep him in neutral by using Baek's safe moves like df+4,4 and d+3,3. cd 4,4 is good too, along with 4,4.
Signature "What It Do-San"
Stringer
nothing to lose
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1727
From: United States
#18 “Quote” Edit Post
of course u wanna attack here and there w/ shit that'll get Steve but outside of that, recently - I've gotten some good results turtling against Steve

one thing I don't do is attack immediately after Steve especially jabs or 1+2 cuz that gets parried by Steve and I've been unlucky enough to have that happen to me before, but d+3,3 and d/f+4,4 are good against Steve

I'm not saying not to attack him if the momentum is in your favor, do it at all costs - like say your connecting on most of your shit, most cases the advantage is yours... when Steve starts attacking you cannot try to interrupt his shit it just ain't gonna happen - so when it comes to that, BLOCK


Steve doesn't have many lows and his only really good one is d+1
nf0x
Sage
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 475
From: USA California
#19 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Stringer
of course u wanna attack here and there w/ shit that'll get Steve but outside of that, recently - I've gotten some good results turtling against Steve

one thing I don't do is attack immediately after Steve especially jabs or 1+2 cuz that gets parried by Steve and I've been unlucky enough to have that happen to me before, but d+3,3 and d/f+4,4 are good against Steve

I'm not saying not to attack him if the momentum is in your favor, do it at all costs - like say your connecting on most of your shit, most cases the advantage is yours... when Steve starts attacking you cannot try to interrupt his shit it just ain't gonna happen - so when it comes to that, BLOCK


Steve doesn't have many lows and his only really good one is d+1


Agreed

Is anyone beating decent dj's or hei's?
Signature "What It Do-San"
Stringer
nothing to lose
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1727
From: United States
#20 “Quote” Edit Post
I play against a few Devil Jins here in NY

one of 'em had a basic mix-up of 1,1 into hellsweeps rinse w/ iWS+2 and then he'd rinse it w/ just one jab only, at first I was gettin' caught by it but then crushing and/or parrying for the launch does Baek justice. 1+2, 4 punishes f,f+2 I believe, I know I was able to land it in response to f,f+2

one little thing against Nina, whenever she's in position for u/f+1 to hit DO NOT BOTHER TRYING TO GET UP AND KICK, IT IS NOT WORTH IT!!! u/f+1 launches on CH similar to Eddy's ss+2 on CH and Nina can do stupid damage... if you play your cards right against Nina, you'll do good... abuse d/f+2 it helps, Baek does stupid damage so I suppose to balance things out, this is why Baek don't got that quick ass launch besides the 11 frame 4 on CH... use Baek's exceptional wake-up too, it's like taunting for all the shit she had in 5.0
f,n,d,D/F+4 is your friend

Last edited by Stringer on Apr 23rd, 2006 at 05:57

 All times are GMT. The time now is 14:21

Page Splits 123>...5
Moderator Tools
Forum Jump