Stopping abuseable moves and strings in T4

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shauno
MentalFrameAdvantage
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 2937
From: USA California
#1 “Quote” Edit Post
This thread was prompted by a discussion on the main forum (techroll tv's poll). Many players still have problems stopping abuseable moves in Tekken 4. VF4 and SC players are the most notorious for citing some of these moves as reasons why T4 is broken. My point is these people don't have the skill to defend them and they blame their lack of success on the game itself. Developing a top tier defense in Tekken 4 is by far one of the most difficult things to do in fighting games IMHO because the T4 engine REALLY punishes you if you don't know what to do against a tactic. Learn to defend it properly, THEN criticize the game if you can.

All of us have gone through this over time... getting punished by Steve's 1,2,1, Lei's Razor Rush, Julia's elbows and 8-frame counters, etc. But once you learn to contain them one at a time you really have a sense of accomplishment and have increased your overall defensive skill. Things your opponent uses become less "abuseable" as they instead open up opportunities for your character to get free CHs, side/back throws, and more.

My definition of an "abuseable" move_string is anything that an experienced, upper-level player cannot consistently punish or stop outside of blocking it. However. there aren't as many of these in T4 as lesser skilled (but overly arrogant) players would have you believe. Let's look at a few of the common abuse culprits for those who still have problems, most of 'em were mentioned in that thread on the main page:

T4 Jabs : even most advanced players don't fuss about over abuse of this move any more. Punch parries/reverses, iWS attacks, SSR punishment, abundant anti-high attacks... too many ways to control a player who try to jab their way to victory.

I'm playing a lot of Soul Calibur 2 (rusting my T4 skills unfortunately ) and the quick "jabs" in that game are definitely more abuseable than Tekken's since you can't iWS or SS the high horizontals. In any case, the damage inflicted by this attack isn't enough to be worried about. Jabs can be plentiful and useful just as they are in real boxing, but they can't win tourneys all by themselves.

Steve's 1,2,1 : This string is unique in that the third "high" punch has priority over many of the tactics one would use vs. high attacks. If you are in FC, it requires that you find your best, true anti-high moves or wait just a few frames longer to punish Steve after the 3rd punch whiffs. Normal anti-high, anti-punch tactics easily punish the first jab so they are usually your best option. Timing your use of these options is where true defensive skill resides.

Yoshi SS 1 : The over abuse of this move by some Yoshi players is this move's weakness. When I used to spar with calipower's Yoshi a lot this was the move I concentrated most on shutting down, and against lesser Yoshi's (i.e. almost all others), stopping this move usually means stopping their whole game. You can feel it coming at you after enough experience and simply need to SSR (or punch parry_reverse) at the same time he pulls it out. Once you control it by over-preparing for it with constant SSRs in your poke strings, you'll see how impotent this move is a an abuseable tactic.

Lei Razor Rush : The official T4 rape victim needs all the abuseable stuff he can get, but his RR is very susceptable to SSR, punch parry_reverse and certain anti-high attacks like Lee's blazing kick, Hwoarang's CD 4, and Hei's ff+2. Honestly I hardly use him anymore so I'm not sure if you can still auto-SS the third blocked RR punch by holding u_d while blocking. Someone will confirm this.

Lee SS+2 : I feel he's the most over-rated character in Tekken. Take away the SS+2 and he has nothing for you to fear. Block high and break his throws - he needs his JFs or a launcher to do any real damage. As for taking away the SS+2, it is very character specific, but like Yoshi the biggest tactic to use is experience. ALWAYS expect it to come out and attack accordingly with your best tracking, anti-high mid attack. My Ling has d/f+1 and AoP f+2,1 among others, Lei has b+1+2 headbutt and iWS+3... once you find yours, always mix it in with your custom strings.

Julia elbow : Wow, people still have problems with this one. Sure it can be used a lot but I never considered it to be a game breaking abuseable move because along with CHs she needs something like this to compete. In any case, it is sidesteppable, as a anti-Julia thread in the strat section pointed out. But even on block, the -2 recovery of the move stops her momentum if you're smart. After blocking, simply 8-frame or anti-high interrupt her next option, or SS with her if she tries to first, and then use these tactics. It's a nice, useful move but not worth fussing over.

Nina 1+4 : My vote for the most abuseable move in Tekken 4. It can be safely done more than Jin's LS, but it is less punishing when it catches you. Even though you can see five or six of these a round, I feel the real strategy for fighting against Nina is not to overly concentrate on stopping 1+4, but learn to punish her various options after blocking it. In close a SSR will do well to dodge it, but oftentimes it will still catch you (especially if she SSR first). Also, dashing in with a SSR 1,2 double jab will out-prioritize it as well.

Bryan 1,4 : Uhm, when did this move make the most abuseable list? Like jabs for other characters, this string has its place in an offensive flow, but I haven't seen many Bryans dominating tourneys, especially with this string. Its high,high without the special properties of Steve's 1,2,1 or Lee's SS+2... what's the problem?

Christie SS+2 and SS+4 : Most players are fortunate not to have high quality Christies to fight against, but she can use her dodging, bounce-juggling SS+2 elbow just as effectively as Yoshi's SS+1. The difference is that it forces a FC on you as you block it, allowing her to possibly do it again when you try a WS attack, and it isn't anti-high like Yoshi's punch. Just like Yoshi SS+1, the key is experience in expecting it, but you SSL late to make it whiff. If you want to be proactive, Dash in really close when you expect it and interrupt with a 1,2 2x jab as it animates.

Her SS+4 low kick can be more annoying than any abuseable jab tactic. It has nice range to be done from a distance, it hits low and recovers +4 (standing) on hit and a mere -2 on block. Looking for the SS, no matter how slight, and d/f low parrying the kick is your best option. Otherwise, it isn't damaging enough to fuss over - its just a good supporting move for her.

Xiaoyu AoP : Possibly the best stance in Tekken, I don't need to tell you that her d+1+2 into the stance causes a LOT of moves to whiff whether they are high, mid or low. Here's the deal... entering AoP with d+1+2 from normal stance causes her to crouch very low AND initiate a small SSR. It's the built-in SSR that causes things like Paul's Tile Splitter (d+1) and even stuff like a character's d+4 to whiff (right Christie? ). As an added note, if she does a d+1+2~1+2, she goes EXTRA low (a la AoP~d), allowing her to go under and punish moves she doesn't normally seem able to.

So how do you guard against it? Even with it's SSR, it isn't enough to always dodge a move, so find your lowest hitting mid attack and stick with it in anticipation of an AoP attempt. Christie has qcf+3, Kuma has ff+2, Ling has XMTS, Jin has (risky) d+3+4... find what works for you. In any case, any character can simply try to SSR after she goes into the stance to dodge both her 4~3 sweep and the u/f+3 hop kick. Her tracking moves from AoP aren't as damaging as these two.

Marduk d+4 : His unparryable low kick can be SSR (along with the sweep), and if blocked recovers -11. That's not enough for most characters to punish (Ling's WS+4, 4~3 is free), but come out of FC with a fast mid attack and his flow will be limited.

Jin's LS : Definitely the granddaddy of abusability against most players, the damage it inflicts if it merely hits helps make him #1. You really are a top notch player when you can defend this string well when used by advanced players (a la insanelee at the Nationals). However, when used by expert players I wonder if anything can stop Jin. We'll see what the gameplay is like at EC4 for the true cheesiness rating of this hated string when the top Korean Jin player comes to the U.S.

There have been numerous anti-LS posts so I don't need to go over all of 'em here, but never underestimate it and always be ready if you wish to come out on top.

Feel free to add more tactics and/or corrections. T4 isn't as cheap as most people think once you develop some REAL defensive skills. It was once said of sports like football and basketball: Great offense fills the seats, but great defense wins the game. Although we'll never see a flashy highlight reel of someone shutting down something like Lee's SS+2, it does take talent to do so on a regular basis. That talent is what separates the men from the boys, and the Tekken complainers from the Tekken dominators.
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The_Wicked_PR
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#2 “Quote” Edit Post
As always, good shit shauno
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oji
7th Dan
Joined: May 2002
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#3 “Quote” Edit Post
man, don't you get tired of being right?!
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Argonaut
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#4 “Quote” Edit Post
he's all wrong.. all wrong I tells ya... j/k

Good stuff shauno, I'm just getting sick and tired of the topics that are brought up in reference to one of the following...

Cheap Jin LS JF
Kuma's JF Glitch
etc

They are in the game and they are there for a reason. If it is that easy to do damage, then there has to be a way not to be damaged by them. Once you find this way then you will not be hit by such moves and will be a better player.

I'm just sick and tired of people just complaining over and over about this shit.. and now people are saying that SC2 is broken.. when will the complaining stop ??
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darkmanx
X is coming for ya..
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#5 “Quote” Edit Post
Nina's 1+4 is a pain in the ass. Everything else can be dealt with accordingly.
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Kazama666
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 241
#6 “Quote” Edit Post
Super Duper Shit man. People are gonna find so called "crappy cheat tactics" in SC2, its just a matter of time.. its almost impossible to make a series of fighting games that lasts because you have to add new moves, new things, new stuff.. sooner or later a little mistake will be made...i play with lee alot, and i've found out that without that ss+2 lee really is a joke.. i mean he has no quick or good launchers.. his knee has pretty bad recovery and the df+2 isnt so great..
there is this one guy at my local arcade though that consistently uses db+1, 1,1,f,f+1 with julia, he does it even if i'm at a distance from him, which means i'm not even blocking it.. me playing with lee though doesnt give me much choices.. but instead of bitching i overcame his craptacular strategy..i agree with dmx.. other than 1+4 nothing isnt amazingly hard to avoid....nice work once again
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khaos
StraydoG
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#7 “Quote” Edit Post
Well, I feel proud... I dont abuse any thing at all.
AznPolo00
War Lord
Joined: Oct 2001
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#8 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by shauno

Lei Razor Rush : The official T4 rape victim needs all the abuseable stuff he can get!


Amen to that Shauno... my poor Lei got screwed in T4
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mayo
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#9 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by shauno


Feel free to add more tactics and/or corrections. T4 isn't as cheap as most people think once you develop some REAL defensive skills. It was once said of sports like football and basketball: Great offense fills the seats, but great defense wins the game. Although we'll never see a flashy highlight reel of someone shutting down something like Lee's SS+2, it does take talent to do so on a regular basis. That talent is what separates the men from the boys, and the Tekken complainers from the Tekken dominators.


i would but you said it all good shit this should keep ppl happy for a long time to come
lordrican
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Joined: Oct 2001
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#10 “Quote” Edit Post
i must disagree... bryans taunt is too good... too good...



but there's law's 1,2,3

there's christie/eddy's unparriable low sweep and 1,3~b virtually unpunishable poke...

and about craig's d+4 blocked -11, steve gets ws+1,2 free

just wanted to know ur thoughts on those moves... if they are ON the list... j/c
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invinvible
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#11 “Quote” Edit Post
Simply,
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subt-L
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#12 “Quote” Edit Post
all that and no christie b+4?

i guess i'm the only idiot to abuse that move.
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[KFC]rob
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#13 “Quote” Edit Post
leave it to a cali player to say something smart. heh good shit shauno.

i just wanted to start posting moves that counter strings like these like someone did earlier in the thread, just go a little more in depth with them.

First case is Lee's ss+2

In most cases, if you people notice or not, people will use ss+2 going right, it has a worse range going ssL+2 and whiffs/goes by people wrong. Saying that, ssR+2 is countered by many characters. List with description:

Steve's 3,1:1 is my honest favorite to counter lee players, because this now makes the lee player stop, and have to start using b+3, ss+1+2, d/f1(if they stay close some how), hopkicks, and iWsings. what also makes it even better if your quick on reaction you counter ssL+2 with 4,2 with steve. almost no joystick involement to beat Lee players with steve. lee won't attack with throws and low's because he'll get over powered easily by steve moves.
so now for hypothesis, if you block ss+2 with steve, what to do? well if the person is a calm player, ss+2 blocked he'll wait for a retaliation, correct? so then you have the option to gain space by flicker stepping backwards/anticipate with 311/or go on the offensive with a possible f3, 1(this is if you think he will ssr+2 again) or f4, f+2(if he accepts to block the next move, now you'll get a small side turn game for a bit until he re-aligns.) if the person is a hyper player i.e. ss+2~f 12 style or ss+2~f~ss+2, the easy solution is to turtle up and use 311 until he stops. Make hyper lee players turn into calm players, now they have to reconstruct all of their play, good players can do this, but lee is mainly used by scrubby joe-schmoe who don't understand adaption. And experienced players also know adapting to a steve player is not very easy, so that makes short work of abusers.
whew, wow first day back at college and i'm doing this in my break...

Next Character Paul
this man gets so fucked up by ssR+2 its ridiculous, but there is the one move he can do, d/f+1. That is the only move that should be suggested with paul. it cleany just beats ssR+2, nothing special or theorectical about it. What i do suggest, is instead of plain d/f1, do SSL~d/f1. This because if the lee player changes to SSL+2, d/f1 has trouble attacking it. so when the player ssl, and your still moving left he'll whiff usually(please take that liberally, its not a guarentee) all other moves with paul are very linear/or high. a poorly timed b,f1 gets beaten by ss+2, d+1+2 with paul...it works sometimes, and that's its problem i'm sure everyone knows what i'm talking about when this move just gets beaten out by jabs or whiffs for no strong valid reason. its not a very reliable move, even though its his best tracking power move.

this is funny if you want to see a stand still match
Lei is so great against lee its actually pretty funny.

with Lei b+1+2, da heabutt. omg does this move just practically stop all of lee's high's dead cold. only problem is, that's it. what else can lei do, he's not going to attack with those mad crazy moves he has...ya know the ones that do all of 5points of damage. so now all lei has to do is cleany move around poke his way to victory. just keep using the headbutt, i mean everytime the headbutt hits it does a good 20points of damage, that'll make a lee player stop mist stepping quickly and figure out a way to approach lei.

Hachi: iWS+2...i guess its self-explanatory, still a very hard fight for hei, you can throw in chi palms occasionally, but really just a mis-match. oh yeah, a late iws+2 will typically go right by lee putting you both backturned, so stay sharp.

law: another horrible match. the most easy to think of way is to parry dssF1, but this doesn't stop lee from using the move it just makes him do the occasional empty step in's to bait out parries. Law's only true tracking move is a DT...but i wouldn't suggest alot of these.

Jin: parry/ssing the ss+2 is probably a better way to get space against lee but can be difficult. i.e. ssr+2 with lee, parry it with jin, and then SSL. ls is slow, but timed and anticipated can eat ss+2 for breakfast.


i didn't get in depth with all the characters i wanted to but my time is cut, i'll come back and keep posting my experiences and theories against this move with and the other abuseable's.


hey shauno if i see you on irc i might ask you some questions about some of this stuff and then cut/paste and slab it down here. We need to make tekken just a little bit more deeper than a handful of moves.
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craig tap out
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Joined: Jan 2002
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#14 “Quote” Edit Post
Now all we need is for Tom and Co. to share some of their defensive strats too!

Written like a Column in the news.

Good stuff shauno
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karnagec
Dragon Lord
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 822
From: South Korea
#15 “Quote” Edit Post
ok, first I better follow the others and say "good stuff"



But honestly, it is, shauno. I liked watching your ttt match vids, are there any t4 ones around?

That said, I just have to mention that most peoples' complaints, unprocessed, does sound like sweeping statements. Now I know you've always been saying that T4 is the most balanced one to date; which I think is probably true, no way a 'expert' kuma/paul player in ttt could have beaten a mishima 'expert' player. I've read alot of what you've said and yeah, I guess you are right most parts.

But I just wanna supply abit of the opposite side of the coin in this thread (just being constructive).

Pokes are fine, and true, close spacing is meant to be in a fist/kicks fighting game. But when the whole game deteriorates into pokes (at the right times I might add, not random abuse) and simple mixups of abusable stuff; which is possible now, with the new system. It just gets tiresome.... you know. I mean it may not be something new to tourney players like you, you're probably used to that kind of stuff thrown at you, which is fine, in a tourney, anything to win yah? But to simple arcade players who play for fun and use non-top tier characters because of simple passion for tekken, its kind of irritating. True, the new system kind of levels the playing field somewhat. But I have to think that when they/koreans 'complain' that t4 is a game requiring lesser 'skills' (another unprocessed complaint, bear with me ), they also have their valid reasons?

T4 has brought in new blood to the scene.
Thats fine as I too would like to see a surge in the popularity of tekken as a game. But one has to think if namco overdid it with the 'simplifying' of the game, boosting its popularity and making it more 'user' friendly.

Well, I think its great that you spent time to type out these stuff for those unfamiliar with how to evade those stuff. And also, its great that in all your replies to anti-t4 that you actually bring out new constructive views showing the opposite side of the coin, instead of just "you cant get used to the system, you just su*k" , "there is always a way to beat jin, he is not unbeatable", among other sweeping statements some of which I kind of think is made by average (or non-) ttt players who really 'soared' in t4 If you're (generic, not aimed at shauno, I know he is a good tekken player in both lol) not one of them, dont mind that last remark

I just hope the US release version balance the game a little bit more. I hear jin is toned down abit, thats always a good thing; to be fair they should really fix kuma's sh 'jf' too lol.

For me, I'm shifting between ttt and t4 now abit of sc2 occasionally, but its so hard to find a good ttt machine nowadays.

As always, keep those constructive views coming, Peace out!
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tokendagreens
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Joined: Aug 2001
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From: USA California
#16 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by [KFC]rob
leave it to a cali player to say something smart. heh good shit shauno.

i just wanted to start posting moves that counter strings like these like someone did earlier in the thread, just go a little more in depth with them.

First case is Lee's ss+2

In most cases, if you people notice or not, people will use ss+2 going right, it has a worse range going ssL+2 and whiffs/goes by people wrong. Saying that, ssR+2 is countered by many characters. List with description:


Next Character Paul
this man gets so fucked up by ssR+2 its ridiculous, but there is the one move he can do, d/f+1. That is the only move that should be suggested with paul. it cleany just beats ssR+2, nothing special or theorectical about it. What i do suggest, is instead of plain d/f1, do SSL~d/f1. This because if the lee player changes to SSL+2, d/f1 has trouble attacking it. so when the player ssl, and your still moving left he'll whiff usually(please take that liberally, its not a guarentee) all other moves with paul are very linear/or high. a poorly timed b,f1 gets beaten by ss+2, d+1+2 with paul...it works sometimes, and that's its problem i'm sure everyone knows what i'm talking about when this move just gets beaten out by jabs or whiffs for no strong valid reason. its not a very reliable move, even though its his best tracking power move.

this is funny if you want to see a stand still match
Lei is so great against lee its actually pretty funny.

with Lei b+1+2, da heabutt. omg does this move just practically stop all of lee's high's dead cold. only problem is, that's it. what else can lei do, he's not going to attack with those mad crazy moves he has...ya know the ones that do all of 5points of damage. so now all lei has to do is cleany move around poke his way to victory. just keep using the headbutt, i mean everytime the headbutt hits it does a good 20points of damage, that'll make a lee player stop mist stepping quickly and figure out a way to approach lei.

Hachi: iWS+2...i guess its self-explanatory, still a very hard fight for hei, you can throw in chi palms occasionally, but really just a mis-match. oh yeah, a late iws+2 will typically go right by lee putting you both backturned, so stay sharp.

law: another horrible match. the most easy to think of way is to parry dssF1, but this doesn't stop lee from using the move it just makes him do the occasional empty step in's to bait out parries. Law's only true tracking move is a DT...but i wouldn't suggest alot of these.

Jin: parry/ssing the ss+2 is probably a better way to get space against lee but can be difficult. i.e. ssr+2 with lee, parry it with jin, and then SSL. ls is slow, but timed and anticipated can eat ss+2 for breakfast.


i didn't get in depth with all the characters i wanted to but my time is cut, i'll come back and keep posting my experiences and theories against this move with and the other abuseable's.


hey shauno if i see you on irc i might ask you some questions about some of this stuff and then cut/paste and slab it down here. We need to make tekken just a little bit more deeper than a handful of moves.



a general all around anti ss+2 is ss or sidewalk right while u have some room(atleast outside jab range or so) when in close lee has some options on stopping ssr or sswr but when u have some room its much harder

with hei b+2 is better than iws+2 plus u get a better combo on ch

for paul a good counter i saw for ssr+2 was d+1,2 i guess its situational wether u use this or not cause if they ssl it will whiff or if he blocks he can hit ya with ch acidrain or 1,2,4,4 if the lee player is quick but it does more damage than d/f+1(altho it is alot riskier) and think about the damage u can do if u get a wall stun

for lei i think lei-z lei is a better approach for lei compared to using headbutts cause lee does not have many good moves tht hit grounded but he can laucnh u for trying a headbutt in retaliation of a high move, u may get 20 points of damage per head butt hit but lee can do up to 50% per launch depending if there is a wall around. when u do razor rush into panterh stance(i think it is) the stance where u can do the low punch or mid pucnh that launches, lee's knee stops both atleast when i played against lei i always hit him b4 he hit me so think twice b4 doing this
tomhilfiger
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#17 “Quote” Edit Post
here are some anti-strats for some of the moves that some people think are abusive...

law's 123...

absolutely not abuseable... u can duck the 12, then low jab the 3 kick... for example... in steve's case, he can low jab in between the 2 and the 3, and then get ws+1,2 and another d+1 to punish it. Jin can just do low jab, ws+1,2 and d+4... this does about 20-25 percent damage. So let's just say... this move is verrry punishable. basically... between the 2 and 3, if a person low jabs, it'll make them float, making it possible to cc (crouch cancel) and continue a combo, or if u have characters like steve/jin, etc. who have really good WS attacks, then even better

nina 1+4

there is no way in hell this move is verrry abusive... this is as abusive as law's 123... VERY punishable... of course, nina has anti strats also for countering this attack, etc.... but so does every character. contrary to what some people think , this move is verrrry easy to ss. I've played ALOT of nina players out there where I just rape them for free because they try and abuse this attack. This move is very vulnerable to ss LS (50-60 percent, as to where nina only gets like 3-5 percent) ss DF, punch parry, etc.

jin LS

from what i know of so far, CH LS with NO delay is inescapable. With that said... to get around this move, u have to play very smart. Jin has many options... even against the free 8 frame jabs people get even if jin stops after just finishing the first 2 parts of the LS. ... ok... i'll write more on some of the other abusable moves, and how to punish them better later on... gotta jet... hopefully some of this info helped out.
tbuxton
Tekken Lord Black
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 997
From: USA Massachusetts
#18 “Quote” Edit Post
bryan's 1,4 is damn good but i haven't heard anyone call it overly abusable. but to add to it, the reason it's so damn good is because the kick has such excellent priority. it stops pretty much any ws attack making it hard to punish bryan for this move.
i agree with tomhilfiger on nina's 1+4 in that move is extremely easy to SS(but it's still a great move). In fact, a LOT of Nina's game is very linear. So linear, that d/f+1+2 has to be abused a LOT because it is the best way for her to stop ssw whores. I think she has only 3 'reliable' tracking moves. stfu slap, d,d/f+4 sweep, and d/f+1+2. only d/f+1+2 is safe.
Lei's razor rush CAN be ssw on the 3 hit when blocked. in fact, even if you are hit you can 'walk' out of it. I think on block you get hit by one of the punches when you hold d_u but then you are effectively at his side or back.
Xiaoyu's AoP is damn annoying. I don't try to anticipate and hit her out of it too often because I think it is too dangerous. So when in the hell can I hit a top tier Ling player? I generally try to capitalize on mistakes and exploit some of her more linear moves. So basically, low parrying and finding holes in her strings is how I beat her.
Jin has a lot of moves that are dangerous for him to use. He has some of the most powerful moves, but he also has some holes in his game that can be exploited. these are some moves that are abused a lot that can be seriously punished.
1,2,3: ssr~b(keeps you safe even if they do 1,2,4)
2,1: ssr~b(usually doesn't get away from the 1 but if they do it again, you will escape the whole thing. also can sometimes hit with jab strings inbetween. ie kaz 1,1,2)
also, 11 frame iws with some characters is too good(ie, kaz iws1,2). d/f+2 with hwoarang.
1,3~3: can reliably ssr and murder(no mixup)
ws+2: free jab strings on block
2,4: free ws when you duck the 4.
*remember, this is for when these moves are abused only*
other Jin moves that can be punished usually require more mistakes/sloppy play on the part of your opponent.
JFLS: interupt for ch if they start too far away but make sure it is reliable and quick
hwoarang: d/f+2, b+4
bryan: f+4, ff+2

steve fox: if you are patient, you will be MUCH better off. actually, if you have a 10 frame jab you have no choice but to be patient. it means everything and there isn't much need to post any other strategy. i kinda want to post the anti-steve guide for hwoarang but i'm not gonna right now(i still hate steve but that is because i am impatient).

maybe will post more some other time. btw, nice thread shauno
toothy
Fujin
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1751
From: New Zealand
#19 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by karnagec
to be fair they should really fix kuma's sh 'jf' too lol.



I don't want to start up that whole argument again but that juggle can be escaped:

while in the air mash 2. before hitting the ground stop pressing the button (so that you don't tech) now hold down and mash 2+4 to ankle kick with about 2 frames to spare.

This has been discovered after a lot of research on my behalf.
karnagec
Dragon Lord
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 822
From: South Korea
#20 “Quote” Edit Post
I didnt say the ff2 juggle specifically... but ok if u wanna take it that way hehe...
Signature karnagec (Bugis mode 'on')

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