Le Saison Deux pour La Poing De Le Fer 7

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PhineBuyM3
Fujin
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 590
From: USA Texas
#21 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by S2_Dotoring
Why waste resources on a character that won't be used?

I don't feel like this means much coming from a Gigas user.
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Benardus22
7th Dan
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 98
From: Netherlands
PSN: Benardus
#22 “Quote” Edit Post
Where is all the reasoning that some cuts have to be made and that the roster being too big was a disaster? All I see is children screaming for their candy of choice without caring about any consequences or any consideration of how much profit that character would bring to Tekken (It's a business that needs to survive remember? They didn't do so hot after TTT2 remember?). "I just want him/her back, I don't care whether no one plays him/her". Your narrowminded whining is the reason TTT2 was a disaster and almost meant the end of Tekken franchise. "Give me back True Ogre, my true main!!!!!@@!!" ~Retard

It seems they have their fair share of profit and it shows in their carelessness. We're up to about 45 chars soon? Well it's alright, at least you can play Lei the bum (lol) and we have a new springback wall mechanic, now Geese has even better chances to pull off some 100% damage combo's consistently. Let the clown fiesta begin.
Signature Nothing comes to those who wait.
SSfox
Foxstepman
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3244
#23 “Quote” Edit Post
I hope they are bringing back ghost mode with pass2 or at least give us option to put 3 rounds and disable gimmicks in treasure battle.
dodecadozen
Iron Fist God
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1641
#24 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Benardus22
Where is all the reasoning that some cuts have to be made and that the roster being too big was a disaster? All I see is children screaming for their candy of choice without caring about any consequences or any consideration of how much profit that character would bring to Tekken (It's a business that needs to survive remember? They didn't do so hot after TTT2 remember?). "I just want him/her back, I don't care whether no one plays him/her". Your narrowminded whining is the reason TTT2 was a disaster and almost meant the end of Tekken franchise. "Give me back True Ogre, my true main!!!!!@@!!" ~Retard

It seems they have their fair share of profit and it shows in their carelessness.


So, you're pissed off that we're getting some solid content for the game? You think Namco is making bad decisions and want to advise them with your master's degree in business from Bullshit University? Think about it once more.

The business has more than survived with the strategies it's adopted for T7 so far. It's done well enough with the arcades and the initial console release. Now it's all about reciprocating the community goodwill and keeping the playerbase strong. This is also part of business. People have had more than a year to get used to the base roster + the DLC characters. It's about time they brought back some of the missing dudes and dudettes, and more content to the game.

The thing about low usage characters is they tended to be low usage because they were also hard to win with i.e. lower tier than average-to-high usage characters. Once you make any character a viable option to win, character usage becomes a matter of aesthetics and feel. You're gonna see more "low-usage" characters brought in, whether you like it or not. What's more, these characters will likely shoot up in usage ratings because people were starved of these characters for a while, and mainly because these characters are likely gonna be rebalanced to be viable, like a whole bunch of others in base T7.

You wouldn't be seeing Rangchu beat Noroma in Evo top 8 with Panda if the bears sucked liked earlier games. Sure they're not high tier or anything now, but what they are, combined with T7's comeback mechanics gives you a fair chance at winning. Same with that korean what's-his-name playing Lucky Chloe in some tournament Top 8 a while back. Then there's the story of a USA player playing King (of all characters) and getting 3rd place at Evo.... unheard of before. Not to take anything away from the skill of Lil Majin (I loved his playstyle... it's after my own soul), but he couldn't have pulled this off in earlier tekkens with King.
Signature Bring back [kunimitsu] for T7!
Hasaldo
6th Dan
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 64
#25 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Benardus22
we have a new springback wall mechanic, now Geese has even better chances to pull off some 100% damage combo's consistently. Let the clown fiesta begin.


Actually, to Geese that wouldn't be a new mechanic since he already has a move that does the wall bounce thing.
DG.PRO
Berserker
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 431
#26 “Quote” Edit Post
I think the only story mode improvement they ever make will be some character episodes for the new characters.(Similar to the other episodes with 1 fight)
S2_Dotoring
Broken mess
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1574
From: Italy
#27 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by PhineBuyM3
I don't feel like this means much coming from a Gigas user.

>Actual Dotoring browsing a near dead ENGLISH forum

Sorry to disappoint you, but I fucking despise Gigas, and I'm not Korean.
Signature t7 sux
Benardus22
7th Dan
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 98
From: Netherlands
PSN: Benardus
#28 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by dodecadozen
So, you're pissed off that we're getting some solid content for the game? You think Namco is making bad decisions and want to advise them with your master's degree in business from Bullshit University? Think about it once more.

The business has more than survived with the strategies it's adopted for T7 so far. It's done well enough with the arcades and the initial console release. Now it's all about reciprocating the community goodwill and keeping the playerbase strong. This is also part of business. People have had more than a year to get used to the base roster + the DLC characters. It's about time they brought back some of the missing dudes and dudettes, and more content to the game.

The thing about low usage characters is they tended to be low usage because they were also hard to win with i.e. lower tier than average-to-high usage characters. Once you make any character a viable option to win, character usage becomes a matter of aesthetics and feel. You're gonna see more "low-usage" characters brought in, whether you like it or not. What's more, these characters will likely shoot up in usage ratings because people were starved of these characters for a while, and mainly because these characters are likely gonna be rebalanced to be viable, like a whole bunch of others in base T7.

You wouldn't be seeing Rangchu beat Noroma in Evo top 8 with Panda if the bears sucked liked earlier games. Sure they're not high tier or anything now, but what they are, combined with T7's comeback mechanics gives you a fair chance at winning. Same with that korean what's-his-name playing Lucky Chloe in some tournament Top 8 a while back. Then there's the story of a USA player playing King (of all characters) and getting 3rd place at Evo.... unheard of before. Not to take anything away from the skill of Lil Majin (I loved his playstyle... it's after my own soul), but he couldn't have pulled this off in earlier tekkens with King.


Nice ad hominems. Who said anything about a master degree in business? I doubt Harada has one with his shitty PR like "Don't ask me for shit". Also, Business "strategies", what you talking about? They brought out a buggy, bar bone game that was unplayable for the first 1-2 months online and high inputlag on PS4. They milked the arcades for 2,5 years. The season pass 1, lacking customization, empty storyline, devoid of any playmodes were a straight rip-off. All these drastic measures could have been avoided if they made enough profit on TTT2, which was the biggest disaster in the entire franchise, due to idiots wanting their "mains" creating this inhospitable bloat game. My point still stands.

Tekken 7 doesn't have that great disparity between tiers and that was also never my point. All these anecdotal points about Ranchu and his bear display is irrelevant for the purpose of making money. 99,99% of Tekken players are not pro's, they are casuals. They can graps some mechanics. They can fight Shaheen or other straight up characters. But introduce, Bears, dr.Bosco, True ogre, Lei wulong, Ling, Capo's and you make their life (99% of your income) a hell. I'm not saying ONLY include d/f+1 straight fighters. But I AM saying limit the off-beat characters and don't create a roster that will scare of any who are genuinely interested.

The only reason T7 is doing ok is because of the countless PR attempts, guest characters and milking of the fans with 100 dollar SEASON 1 pass bullshit scams for a barebone game. This isn't some fucking achievement, this isn't creating a solid product that created buzz by itself. This is just a snake oil salesmans success who is now repeating the mistakes of the past.
Signature Nothing comes to those who wait.
Ashesfall
Fighter
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3137
From: Germany
#29 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Benardus22
The only reason T7 is doing ok is because of the countless PR attempt

their PR especially with waiting time is terrible (attempts)
i think the great gameplay (3D 1vs1) combined with the strong community is the biggest reason why its doing ok.

but the TWT is for sure a really good help for the actual e-sport players and spectators
good PR - i just feel there should be more advertisement

---
i just "tested" KillerInstinct and the tutorial, frame data and hitbox infobox is amazing!
(never understood a new fighting game so fast - not my gameplay tho)
they should really make stuff like that available for all players ingame and the e-sports scene could grow better, i believe

sure just play and have fun at first but once you hit a milestone and actually want to advance, it becomes a mess to gather infos for tekken (i personally hate it to gather essential infos, like is this a console game or a arcade game?)

interested to see how they will handle those infos in SC6 this time
Signature "let me enter and be the worst nightmare for Iron Fist 7, please Heihachi" (Season 3 lets go)
- "Demon" Geese - "SpecialForce" Josie -
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Fernandito
Sweet Spanish Macho
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2385
From: Spain
XBL: Steam:FerDeSantander
#30 “Quote” Edit Post
I'm most impressed to see that some folks around, probably "pros", continue to buy the argument or directly keep on trying to make us all believe through such already old and futile argument, that ttt2 failure had everything to do with the maxed out roster.

The state of denial is funny though. Some won't just straight away admit after all this time that it was its heavy focus on juggle retardation and some other laughable mechanics leading to all over the top damage, this of course making the game look that bad in the eyes of almost everybody that was not a "pro", the main actual culprits responsible for the home version eventual demise.

TTT2 was indeed best tekken ever made when on 1vs1 mode as some sort of T6 2.0, being one of the reasons for this that all characters were available for everybody's pleasure and delightment. On the other hand and sadly, it eventually ended up being the complete opposite in tag mode due due to the couple of reasons exaplined above.
Signature Long Live the King of Iron Fist, Heihachi Mishima.

DG.PRO
Berserker
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 431
#31 “Quote” Edit Post
I think Tag 2's failure played a direct role in having less characters because when a game fails= It results in a lower development cost or the cancellation of the sequels.(Which for Tekken 7 was the former)

I'm pretty sure that the next Tekken game on Unreal Engine 4(Probably TxSF) will have all the characters.(Since they have already done that)
dodecadozen
Iron Fist God
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1641
#32 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Benardus22
Nice ad hominems. Who said anything about a master degree in business? I doubt Harada has one with his shitty PR like "Don't ask me for shit". Also, Business "strategies", what you talking about? They brought out a buggy, bar bone game that was unplayable for the first 1-2 months online and high inputlag on PS4. They milked the arcades for 2,5 years. The season pass 1, lacking customization, empty storyline, devoid of any playmodes were a straight rip-off.

The only reason T7 is doing ok is because of the countless PR attempts, guest characters and milking of the fans with 100 dollar SEASON 1 pass bullshit scams for a barebone game. This isn't some fucking achievement, this isn't creating a solid product that created buzz by itself. This is just a snake oil salesmans success who is now repeating the mistakes of the past.


I don't do ad hominem, only sarcasm.

I'm not denying that T7 is a scammy product. I'm with you on that. But low budget development, flashy noob-friendly mechanics, milking the arcades, pandering to regions and cultural stereotypes and dicks with the new characters, bringing in guest characters from other popular franchises, DLC scam schemes, platform exclusive content, high visibility PR, ... these are business tactics.

Tekken 7 has sold 3 mil + today because they got a lot of people to buy the game based on some of these cheap hooks, information withholding, and misinformations. Some of it may be underhanded but it worked. It's personal for us. It's just business for them. The bottom line is: it worked... albeit at our expense. And a lot of people probably don't even recognize this. But that's probably because their standards for the game were met.

I'm saying Namco knows how to keep itself alive. Let's focus on getting what we want as consumers.


All these drastic measures could have been avoided if they made enough profit on TTT2, which was the biggest disaster in the entire franchise, due to idiots wanting their "mains" creating this inhospitable bloat game. My point still stands.

For a tag game, a huge roster is expected. You're assuming that Tag 2 failed only because of the roster size. What about the complexity of the gameplay system in general? Like the huge combo damage, difficulty in tagging in and out, wake ups, tag assault, tag crash, rage system? What about the lackluster casual content? What about the lazy low level marketing? These are much bigger culprits than the roster.


Tekken 7 doesn't have that great disparity between tiers and that was also never my point. All these anecdotal points about Ranchu and his bear display is irrelevant for the purpose of making money. 99,99% of Tekken players are not pro's, they are casuals. They can graps some mechanics. They can fight Shaheen or other straight up characters. But introduce, Bears, dr.Bosco, True ogre, Lei wulong, Ling, Capo's and you make their life (99% of your income) a hell. I'm not saying ONLY include d/f+1 straight fighters. But I AM saying limit the off-beat characters and don't create a roster that will scare of any who are genuinely interested.

Casuals don't care either way. They'll play the game for some time and shove off to the next big thing. It's really the motivations of the non casuals, intermediates and pros that matter for this conversation. When I talked about bears in tournament, my point was people who liked playing bears (tournament or otherwise) can now actually stay with them. This makes these characters a worthwhile addition simply because it adds legitimate variety to the roster. If I like bears and I have a fair chance of winning with them, I'll naturally like the game a lot more for that fact.

Given the current balance of T7, how can you even rate a a character in terms of profitability? You may actually bring in more people by making previously shitty characters good. People who like bear gameplay have a legit reason to pick up and stay with T7. King players who saw Lil Majin kick ass with King at Evo will no doubt be motivated to get to know their character better.

Some people may not like playing against eddy. But if you look at it from the other point of view, there may be lots of people who love playing AS eddy. Which noob doesn't like button mashing and pulling off flashy shit? We're seeing eddy in tournaments too. If people are gonna complain about complexity of characters, then they need to get rid of Hwoarang and King as well. I hate dealing with Hwoarang's string mixups and King's throw mixups. And fuxk Shaheen and Law 's 50-50s too. F@ck Mishimas and their huge hitbox electrics too. And fark Rage Arts while we're at it. Effin cheap ass comeback mechanics. I can go on forever like this.

But my point is: as long as the game is decently balanced, no character is potentially wasted (except Panda). Also, by "genuinely" interested people, If you mean people who want to really learn tekken or stay with tekken, then they'll learn to deal with the oddball characters. That's part of the hazing into the community. Bears, capos, xiaoyu, lei have been a staple of every tekken since T3. It's easier to deal with the gimmick characters' BS this time because of the power crushes, rage arts and rage drives. Casuals don't give a shit cos they don't have a long enough attention span. If you want to get them hooked to tekken again, you need to bring in some flashy shit like Season2 of DLC scams.

Anyway, I didn't mean any offence. Just saying you presume too much.

Last edited by dodecadozen on Aug 7th, 2018 at 18:42

Signature Bring back [kunimitsu] for T7!
SSfox
Foxstepman
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3244
#33 “Quote” Edit Post
TTT2 sold quite well for a spin off game. I said it already while i appreciate the content on this game, but honestly i found it awkward that they threw so much money for development of a "Spin Off" Game".

Do you really think that an MK Tag tournament or Street Fighter Tag tournament would have sell well? Personally i very highly doubt it, i think both would fail as well.

It doesn't matter how the game is good or its quality, if you're releasing a game that will be seen as a "Spin Off" Game you're automatically cutting huge sales from your game. It's just the way it is lol

Sure there are spin off games that sold well, but it's quite rare and it only happen for the super ultra selling casual and popular franchises, (something like Mario, COD or Pokemon.) There's a reason on why generally companies put less budgets in spin off compare to main games, and TTT2 did the opposite weirdly(Huh!!?).

Don't know are we even still talking about this, but anyway lol
Hasaldo
6th Dan
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 64
#34 “Quote” Edit Post
One thing about sells that I would like to mention that no one mentions for some reason: A lot of people have bought T7 twice because the initially popular version (ps4) was bad and they had to switch to pc. That means that for a next game, most of these people will probably buy the "good" version at launch and won't bother with a second.
Now I'm not saying that's the only reason for T7's "succes", but one has to keep that in mind.
SSfox
Foxstepman
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3244
#35 “Quote” Edit Post
Nah i doubt this would effect much sales, people that play online are less than 10%.

T7 sold mostly imo because:

It's a main game, and Tekken is still a strong IP name (despite Harada sucking SF)
No concurrence, as it's the only 3D FG in the market.
The graphics and aesthetics looks great. (i would bet that the game won't have sold much by just staying w same defaults)
Good marketing focusing on high quality cinematic and gameplay shown without putting too much focus on Juggles (unlike TTT2 that was mainly about super long juggles, like you really think casual guys will get excited to see things like this? lol)
Abigan2K
Iron Fist God
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 3850
From: Philippines
#36 “Quote” Edit Post
lol a few months ago everyone and their mothers cry that t7 was a failure and lacks content etc etc whereas a small minority pointed out what a failure ttt2 is..

i see the tables have turned now

regarding popular characters and their "balance".. i do agree they are correlated but not always the case

lili (except for t6br) has always been mid to low tier yet the character remains popular.. asuka shared this trait including chloe

ganryu on the other hand was a beast in ttt2 and is top tier material yet was shelved because of low usage

paul in early season 1 had low usage globally but suddenly now people discover hes top tier material wherein he really didnt have any changes in fr

leo is leo he was strong early fr and still is at least above average now yet his/her usage hasnt changed much

popularity is more of a characters design than the characters tools or strengths.. balance does factor in but id say design weighs a heavier factor

once again ttt2 died bec of overemphasis on juggles.. 2 wrong guesses on the same character and you die.. hopkicks do a hell lot of smg with TA and wall that game is crazy
Johnnay
Cool,Calm,Collected
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2310
From: Australia
#37 “Quote” Edit Post
^Lili was low tier in BR from what I remember the tier lists, she was upper mid or high tier in T6.0 ( I vaguely remember tier lists of her being high)

I agree with you on popularity though
Signature 'We'd only been married a short time. By now she's been dead longer than I knew her. I still haven't really forgiven myself for the Mona business, but I knew that was just grief. The insanity that comes with losing the life you had just built. Michelle.. I missed her with every part of my being. I hated the world for not killing me with her, and I hated myself for allowing this to happen to her, and our little girl. But I knew I had to leave town"
Max Payne.
dodecadozen
Iron Fist God
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1641
#38 “Quote” Edit Post
Hey, hey, hey, let's not get things mixed up. T7 is a weak product... but from a hardcore consumer point of view.

It's a good success from the developer POV though. They're probably drinking up everyday at our expense.
Signature Bring back [kunimitsu] for T7!
dodecadozen
Iron Fist God
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1641
#39 “Quote” Edit Post
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1spif4h

https://twitter.com/MarkMan23/statu...926954589081600

Well, so much for having faith in Harada to keep his word. *Sigh*. But this kind of scammy behaviour is on par with what T7 has been so far.

This is outright lying and you can't slice it any other way. When the top dog developer makes a statement on social media saying something in certain terms, you would think he'd be making the statement on behalf of the company and not just in an individual capacity. You would naturally expect them to follow through with it.

If they have no intention of following through, don't even make the statement in the first place. Why lead people on with lies?

What's really fucking unbelievable are the shit heads out there demonizing people who criticize a dev for not keeping his word. Some of the replies on Markmak's tweet made my blood boil... but also feel pity for those fools at the same time.

People are like "Harada, thanks for lying to me. Please take my money. I love you."

"I'm ready to pay my pants off for that awesome lie. I'm just thankful Tekken 7's getting more content."

"Hey, Harada, thanks for putting in Anna. Now, I'll be your bitch forever."

Fuck you all.

But that atleast answers my question about how they'll make money for this season. At least SF5 gave you an option to unlock their DLC characters through hardcore grinding in-game.

I don't give a shit about Armor King and whatnot if this is how they treat customers and fans. I'll wait this one out and get it on the real cheap.
Signature Bring back [kunimitsu] for T7!
Johnnay
Cool,Calm,Collected
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2310
From: Australia
#40 “Quote” Edit Post
^this. Itís sad Harada canít keep his word. I was taken back a bit seeing the tweet.

Harada needs to step down IMO
Signature 'We'd only been married a short time. By now she's been dead longer than I knew her. I still haven't really forgiven myself for the Mona business, but I knew that was just grief. The insanity that comes with losing the life you had just built. Michelle.. I missed her with every part of my being. I hated the world for not killing me with her, and I hated myself for allowing this to happen to her, and our little girl. But I knew I had to leave town"
Max Payne.

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