The Wei of the Dragon

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adipati
Raijin
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 647
From: Indonesia
PSN: thatgarlicguy
#1 “Quote” Edit Post
ABBREVIATIONS
• RA = Rage Arts, d+1+2, 55 damage as a raw RA.
• RD = Rage Drive, b+1+2 when in Rage state. Giving our beloved shoulder a S!fe on block, +9, although no additional damage.
• S! = Screw Attack
• JG = Juggle. Launch opponent to the air, enabling air combo.
• KNP = Kenpo Step (b+3+4)
• STC = Shifting Clouds (f+3+4)
• SWYF = Sway Forward/ Snake Dash (qcf+)
• RC = Recover Crouching
• OC = Opponent Recover Crouching
• WS = while standing up
• iWS = Instant while standing. d,db,N_d,df,N (usually)
• WR = while running
• iWR = Instant while running. f N ff
• SSL = side step to left
• SSR = side step to right
• PLD = Play dead position. Face up & feet away
• KND = Knockdown position. Fface up & feet towards
• SLD = Slide position. Face down & feet away
• FCD = Face down position. Face down & feet towards
• BT = Your back turned to the opponent
• iBT = Instant back turned. B3~4
• OC = Forces opponent into crouch. i.e: Blocked qcf+1+2
• CH = counter hit
• DS = Double over stun. Tap f to escape in most cases, you can usually launch opponent
• KS = Kneel stun. Opponent is forced onto one knee, usually does not act as a combo starter. i.e: NH qcf+1+2
• CS = Crumple stun. opponent crumples to the ground in front of you right away, usually acts as a combo starter. i.e: CH f+2
• BS = Block stun (to attacking character, i.e: 1+4_ss+4)
• HA = Homing attack. move tracks both left and right. i.e: b+4_df+3+4
• W! = Wall splat.
• F! = This move cause floor destruction.
• cc = Crouch cancel. Tap u or f,f while crouching


1. NEW MOVES AND CHANGES
Following the development in T7, Feng get a few additions and changes as follows.
New moves:
1. f+1+2 = Tiger Claw. A Screw Attack, also works as a launcher.
2. FC DF+2 = Split Punch. A mid punch, launch, recovers ws.
3. db+1,4 = Spear Kick, another S!. Actualy its better than Tiger Claw since its a mid, so for a low lauched opponents, Tiger Claw will whiff but Spear Kick will connect. But you will S!crifice about 10 point of damage output. Also Spear Kick is a mid, high, so in neutral game, opponents could easily duck it, because the db+1 tell them that a follow up is coming, and if its the 4, they could duck it. But if the db=1 connect, the 4 is guaranteed since it’s a NC.
4. f,F(hold)+1+2, have invicibility properties.

Changes:
Moves that changes its properties during TTT2U to T7
1) F+1+2, the back push that recovers on BT changed to Tiger Claw
2) 2~1,1, the meaty property is gone now.
3) db+4, now can connect to a ws+1 for a full juggle. This is a big buff since for a maximum low crushing we often rely to ss+4, but ss+4 range is very short.
4) bKNP+1, the low punch on CH now gives a new fall animation. Have yet find any way to use it to our advantage somehow.
5) b+1+2, the shoulder now recover faster from -25 to -22 or even -19 when uses as b+2,1,2. You might not see the difference, but when using shoulder as the ender of a juggle or wall splat combo, consider we are +3~6 frame faster to recover compared to TTT2U.
6) db+1,2 now -12 from -11. So be careful for those who has f+2,4 punishments such as Lars, Bob, etc.
7) When in Rage condition, B+1+2 also works as a Rage Drive.
8) d+1+2,1,2, is gone. Because d+1+2 is now slotted for RA.
9) 1,(1) is no longer a ncc.
10) 3,3,(4) is no longer a ncc.
11) b+2,3,4,2 is no longer a ncc.
12) WS+1,2,1 is no longer a ncc.

2. FRAME DATA

Frame data is basically a period taken for a moves to come out. Just like a movement in cartoon making, that consist of serial different animations. So, if a single jab takes an exact 10 frame to execute, then it means it consist of 10 different animation, until the jab is executed.
Learning frame data is very-very important. Because, Tekken is math. A 15f hopkick will always be outrun by a 10f jab. Also, a blocked hopkick, will always be punished because it has a -12 frame, that allow a 10f jab to punished it. You dont have to remember every single data, just the bread and butter you always uses.
For a dependable Frame Data use the link as follows:
http://rbnorway.org/feng-t7-frames/
Great work by Team RB Norway.


3. PUNISHERS

As i S!id. Tekken is math. So every moves has its blocked properties that its either positives or negative. A blocked attack should be punished accordingly. Beneath is the list of moves that should be used for basic punishing.

Standing Punishers
Movement that uses for punish a standing blocked attacks.
1) 10-11f : 1,2,2 (26 dmg)_1,3 (24 dmg)_2,4 (18 dmg)
2) 12f : 1,2,2 (26 dmg), b+4 (14 dmg)
3) 13f : 1,2,2 (26 dmg), b+1+2 (30 dmg, KND, mid range)
4) 15f : uf+4 (13 dmg, Launcher)
5) 19f : ff+4 (13 dmg, Launcher), ff+4<3 (27 dmg, Launcher), f+1+2 (28 dmg, Launcher)
6) 21f : f+3,4 (30 dmg, Launcher, Long Range)

While Standing Punishers
Movement that uses for punish a crouching blocked attacks.
1) 10f : d+1 (5 dmg)
2) 11f : ws+4 (18 dmg)
3) 14f : ws+1,2 (23 dmg)
4) 15f : ws+3 (16 dmg, Launcher)
5) 18f : FC DF+2 (25 dmg, Launcher)
6) 19f : ff+4 (13 dmg, Launcher), ff+4<3 (27 dmg, Launcher)
7) 21f : f+3,4 (30 dmg, Launcher, Long Range) ***

4. SCREW ATTACK (S!)
In Tekken 7, to replace Bound, we got S! to prolong our juggles. Feng’s screws are:
1) f+1+2 S!
2) db+1,4 S!

5. PARRIES AND REVERS!LS
Parries and reverS!l are defensive tools, but its very important for Feng to keep his momentum. Because we cannot always attacking, and sometimes parry and reverS!ls give better reward than blocking. In example. Bryan has one of the fastest unblockable in the game, f1+4. No one could react faster than that, and we cannot block either, since its unblockable. So reverS!ls is the best choice. This also one of the reason why Feng is considered a turtling character. Because Feng maybe has the one of the best parry and reverS!ls in the game. Though beware, since parries and reverS!ls cannot deals with Head, Shoulder, Knee, Elbow, Waist (KUMA), and Stomach (BOB).
Our parries and reverS!ls are:
1) df. univerS!l low parry. We could have a full juggle now, with df+1 follow up into any combo of your choice.
2) b+1+3_b+2+4. punch reverS!l. unchickenable
3) f+3+4 (KNP). Parries punch and kicks. f+3+4 reverse attacks after parrying minimum 2 hits. wall splats + can be jf blocked
4) ws+1+2. Punch parry
5) 1+2. Elbow. Punch parry.
6) db+1~f or db+1~b~f also performs S!me parry as f+3+4

6. TRACKING MOVES
Tracking moves are moves that tracks to left, or right or both. Our tracking and homing moves are:
1) b+4 (mid, tracks both ways, short range)
2) df+3+4 (mid, tracks both ways, mid range)
3) db+4 (low, tracks both ways, mid range)
4) b+3 (high, tracks left, long range)
5) ss+2 tracks both ways (homing)
6) BT d+3 tracks both ways
7) db+3 tracks both ways
8) uf+2 tracks left

7. WALL SPLATTING MOVES
The presence of the wall should be fully utilized, to provide pressure, additional damage or to lay any specific set-ups. Therefore it is very important to know which wall splatting moves that more suitable to the specific circumstances.
1) 2,4,1
2) 2~1,1
3) f+2,1,2
4) f+3,4
5) f+1+2
6) df+2,2
7) d+4,1+2
8) CHb+1
9) b+1+2
10) bKNP,2
11) bKNP,3
12) uf+4
13) uf+3+4,3
14) ff+2
15) ff+4
16) ff+4,3
17) ff+1+2
18) bf+1
19) qcf+2
20) fff+3
21) WS+1,2,1
22) WS+3
23) WS+1+2
24) SS+1+2

8. WALL BREAKING MOVES
Some moves will break wall if performed on a standing opponent (SO), while the other will break walls on wall splatted opponents (W!). Here's the list of the wall breaking moves :
1) 2,4,1
2) 2~1,1
3) f+2,1,2
4) f+1+2
5) df+2,2
6) d+4,1+2
7) CHb+1
8) b+1+2
9) bKNP,2
10) uf+3+4,3
11) ff+2
12) ff+1+2
13) bf+1
14) fff+3
15) WS+1,2,1
16) WS+1+2
17) SS+1+2

9. FLOOR BREAKING MOVES
1) Df+1+2 (throw, 40 dmg)
2) D+3+4 (floor breaking only in combo) (example: 1+2,d+3+4)
3) F43 (floor breaking only in combo)
4) Db222 (floor breaking only in combo)
5) Db1+2 (floor breaking only in combo)
6) Qcf+1+2 (floor breaking only in combo)
7) BT 2,2 (floor breaking only in combo)
8) 2~1
9) u+2
10) ff+3
11) 4~3
12) 3~4
13) d+2

10. NC AND NCC's
Every character has their own given combos, that separate to Natural Combos (NC) and Natural Combo Counter (NCC). The list below, consist of all the NC and NCC's that Feng has.

Natural Combo [NC]
NC are hit strings that if the first hit connects then everything else is guaranteed to connect.
1) 1,2,2
2) 1,3
3) 2,4
4) 3,3
5) ws+1,2
6) 2~1,1
7) f+3,4
8) f+4,3
9) f+4,4
10) fKNP+1+2,1,2
11) df+2,2
12) db+1,2
13) db+1,4
14) b+3,3
15) b+2,3
16) BT+2,2
17) uf+3+4,3
18) WS+1,2
19) SS+3,2

Natural Combo Counter [NCc]
NCc's are hit strings that if the pre-strike gets connected as a 'counter' then everything else is a combo, if not the string can be blocked. (some strings get this effect on a hit that's not the first one, example: Feng's db+2,2 if you get a CH on the second 2, we'll get a combo.)
1) f+2,1,(2)
2) d+4,(1+2)
3) db+2,2,(2)
4) db+1+2,(2)

11. POST LOW PARRY AND FLOOR BREAKS
LOW PARRY follow up
1) f+1+2 S! f+3,4,f+1, f+3,4 (47 damage, better oki set ups)
2) f+1+2 S! f+3,4,f+1, b+1+2 (47 damage)
3) df+1,f+1, db+1,4 S! 3~4,3 (36 damage)

FLOOR BREAKS follow up
1) f+3,4
2) d+3, 1+2

12. JUGGLES

1) Uf+4:
- f+1+2 S! ff+4<3, f+1, f+3, b+1+2 (60 damage) (thanks to Black Priest)
- f+1+2 S! f+3,4,f+1, f+3,4 (56 damage, better oki set ups)
- df+1,f+1, db+1,4 S! 3~4,3 (50 damage)

2) f+3,4
- f+1+2 S! ff+4<3, f+1, f+3, b+1+2 (77 damage) (thanks to Black Priest)
- f+1+2 S! f+3,4,f+1, f+3,4 (73 damage, better oki set ups)
- df+1,f+1, db+1,4 S! 3~4,3 (67 damage)

3) f+1+2
- short dash, 3,3, f+1, f+3,4, b+1+2 (67 damage) (thanks to Black Priest)
- f,f+4 (delayed) 3, f+1,f+3,4, b+1+2 (67 damage)
- f~f+3,4,b+1+2 (57 damage)
- f~f+3,4,f+1,f+3,4 (56 damage)

4) f+4
- f+1+2 S! f+3,4,f+1, f+3,4 (58 damage, better oki set ups)
- df+1, db+1,4 S! 3~4,3 (52 damage)

5) f+4 (blocked),4
- f+1+2 S! f+3,4,f+1, f+3,4 (65 damage, better oki set ups)
- df+1, db+1,4 S! 3~4,3 (59 damage)

6) f+4~b (thanks to Black Priest)
- BT D/F,n~WS+1, db+1,4 S! dash f+3,4, b+1+2 (55 damage)
- BT D/F,n~WS+1, db+1,4 S! 3~4,3 (51 damage)

7) ff+4
- f+1, f+1+2 S! f+3,4, b+1+2 (50 damage)
- df+1, db+1,4 S! 3~4,3 (50 damage)

8) ff+4<3 (thanks to Black Priest)
- f+1+2 S! f+3,4, b+1+2 (60 damage)

9) d/f+3
- 2, db+1,4 S! dash f+3,4, b+1+2 (59)

10) bKNP 3
- f+1+2 S! SSR~f+3,4, f+1, f+3,4 (60 damage, better oki set ups) (thanks to Black Priest)
- f+1+2 S! f+3,4,f+1, b+1+2 (60 damage)
- df+1, db+1,4 S! 3~4,3 (54 damage)

11) STC 2
- f+1+2 S! f+3,4,f+1, f+3,4 (61 damage, better oki set ups)
- df+1, db+1,4 S! 3~4,3 (55 damage)

12) qcf+3_ws+3
- f+1+2 S! f+3,4,f+1, f+3,4 (59 damage, better oki set ups)
- df+1, db+1,4 S! 3~4,3 (53 damage)

13) qcf 2
- f+1+2 S! SSR~f+3,4, f+1, f+3,4 (65 damage and great oki as usual) (thanks to Black Priest)
- f+3,4, f+1, f+1+2 S! f+3,4 (62 damage, better oki set ups)

14) db+4
- ws+1, f+1, f+1+2 S! f+3,4, b+1+2 (59 damage)
- ws+1, db+1,4 S! 3~4,3 (56 damage)

15) ss+4
- df+1, f+1, f+1+2 S! f+3,4,b+1+2 (61 damage)
- df+1, db+1,4 S! 3~4,3 (58 damage)

16) BT d+3
- ws+1, f+1, f+1+2 S! f+3,4 (51 damage, better oki set ups)
- ws+1, db+1,4 S! 3~4,3 (57 damage)

17) FC DF+2
- ws+1, f+1, f+1+2 S! f+3,4 (55 damage, better oki set ups)
- ws+1, db+1,4 S! 3~4,3 (61 damage)

18) 2~1,1
- db+1,4 S! 3~4,3 (65 damage)

19) CH qcf 1
- f+3,db+1,4 S! 3~4,3 (63 damage)
- f+3,f+1,f+1+2 S! f+3,4 (55 damage, better oki set ups)

20) b3 (whiff), CH 3
- f+1+2 S! f,f+4,3,1,b+1+2 (61 damage)

21) CH f+(1),1 (thanks to Black Priest)
This one is a great tool for poking as well, mix up simple 1 checks with delayed 1<1 and you'll can get the CH every now and then; to avoid getting obvious and punished every time mix in some f+1,1,2 and f+1,1,2,1 variations)
- db+1,4 S! dash, 3,3, b+1+2 (64 damage)
- short dash, 3,3, f+1, f+1+2 S! dash d+4,1+2 (62 damage)
- db+1,4 S! dash, f+3,4, b+1+2 (61 damage)
- f+3,4, f+1, f+1+2 S! dash d+4,1+2 (60 damage)

22) CH 1+2 (on successful punch parry) (thanks to Black Priest)
- dash, f+1+2 S! SSR~f+3,4, f+1, f+3,4 (67 damage)
- dash, 1+4, f+1+2 S! ff+4<3, b+1+2 (62 damage)
- dash, 1+4, db+1,4 S! 3~4,3 (57 damage)

23) FUFT 3+4
- f+1, f+1+2 S! f+3,4, b+1+2

24) ws+2
Knee uses this option very much, since he need more rewarding safe option from Snake Dash, but qcf+3 is jab punishable.
- b+1+2 (38 damage)
- d+4,1+2 (32 damage)

13. GUARANTEED DAMAGE
1) U+2:
- b+1+2 (51 damage)
- d+4,1+2 (45 damage)

2) CH B+1
- b+1+2 (44 damage)

3) bKNP 2
- b+1+2 (48 damage)

4) df+3+4
- 4~3

5) CH 4
- b+1+2 (41 damage)

6) CH bKNP 1 (thanks to Black Priest)
d+3+4 stomp (45 damage)

7) CH b,f+1 (thanks to Black Priest)
f,f+3 (51 damage plus further oki in stomp or mids)

8) CH b+1 (thanks to Black Priest)
ff ~ n the b+1+2

14. f+1+2 The Tiger Claw

This claw should be one of our new best friends. Since we rely on it for better juggle damage , but also it has a very nice uS!ge in neutral game.
Tiger claw has good range, and its S!fe at -9. Although its slow start up, but its actually like a long range hopkick we never have. Bob, lili and asuka has those. And now we have it too.
But better. Since tiger claw is a standing move, we domt have to be afraid getting launched if interupted, and its a high. So should cover as an anti air also.
When used properly we should catch around 60 damage without wall.
Try memorized its range so you wont whiff when youre trying to using it at its furthest range, and remember its a high move so never used it at n already crouching opp.

15. CH on FC The old Sit-up stun is back

You all should have notice how this old T5 sit-up stun is back. Although it was nerfed big, but still worth mentioning since we should met the opportunity here and there if we constantly uses df+1 and ws+4.
Back in 5.0 this stun gave us a free df+3 if its not escaped, but in 7FR it gave us nothing guaranteed. I was hoping for a free f+3,4 or atleast a free shoulder when the first time i S!w it. But no. I couldn't get anything free.
But we still could using it to our advantage. Like when the opponent getting this stun we are free to dash in and setting up any traps we wish without any fear of retaliation. Going for a throw is advised since opponents have to stand up without the ability of using any ws moves. Or staying crouches. Or we could go for fast and minimun risk low for an unseeable low. Or b4 if our opponents is a ss happy. We have the solid advantage.

16. Feng T7 Crouching Game

Feng always has a great crouching game since 2005. FC DF1 (a guaranteed stomp on CH), ws3 (a full launcher), ws4 (a quick yet S!fe mid with a sit up stun on CH FC), and the generic low jab (d+2) and low kick (d+4) both S!fe. And now we have a new option, the FC DF2 the split punch.
The split punch may have a rather slow start up at 18 but it gives a complete juggle with ws+1, f+1, db+1,4 S!.
The split punch should be a good addition although it maybe the S!me with ws3 that give a juggle on mid, but if blocked we still recovers crouching at -14. Still not bad since we could reset our crouching game.
Oh and dont forget, we could enter crouching game from a canceled snake dash. Qcf~d.

17. Wall game.

For those following since T5 will be familiar with how we should anticipate when our opponent is hugging a wall. But for those taking Tekken since 6.0, without bound, wall combo situation could looking pretty lame.
But thats how it is. We get a deep wall splat for a full combo or a quick one for a simple poke then laying traps and set ups.
So for a deep wall splat, the our best options is:
• 1,3, b+1+2 is arguably Feng's best wall combo, it does more damage than most of the others and is reliable after a juggle as well as after a power wall splat. It's also the combo I see the most in high level play and tournaments, so it can be considered the staple wall combo. (Thanks to Black Priest)
• f+2,1, delayed 2 for an additional 10 damage. Try practicing it since you need to know the difference.
• 334, f+2,1,d +4,1+2 and b2342 gives good reward to but lower.
Oh, you do know that if you know your opponents is gonna be recover crouching because afraid of a low hit, you could hop kicked them to wall again for a uf+4, f+2,1, delayed 2.
Or you could just wait for it. Wait for what the opponent gonna do. Wheter its quick stand, roll side ways (stomp them), or ankle kick. What ever they do, please remember that you ARE anticipating their limited options, so you should be ready for a punishment.
By waiting you should also be free of a surprised wake up RA. Lets call it the "no set up, set up".

Last edited by adipati on Jul 11th, 2017 at 08:18

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adipati
Raijin
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 647
From: Indonesia
PSN: thatgarlicguy
#2 “Quote” Edit Post
2017-07-10. Update the first post with inputs from Black Priest

Last edited by adipati on Jul 11th, 2017 at 08:19

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GodTierKing
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#3 “Quote” Edit Post
Sweet!
Signature The name says everything you need to know
Climbing Dragon
Iron Fist God
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#4 “Quote” Edit Post
In addition to 1,1 not being NCc anymore, it can also no longer be delayed. I think it might be more than -11 on block now but I'll still have to test it.

Oh, and f+1+2 should be listed among the tracking moves since it's a homing move.
Signature Originally posted by MysticwinD
Fixed tier list for Lili players only needs 2 tiers, one tier with all the chars better than Lili and a second one with just Lili.
GodTierKing
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#5 “Quote” Edit Post
Sweet none the less!
Signature The name says everything you need to know
The Tekken King
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#6 “Quote” Edit Post
The Punishers damage must be corrected.
Good Post
Signature My main.
My sub.

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Jordyce
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Joined: Aug 2006
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#7 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by The Tekken King
The Punishers damage must be corrected.
Good Post


Yeah you need to recheck some of those punisher numbers. Some seem to be with CH/Rage on, others I don't know where you got the numbers from. Other than that, this is a really cool tool.

bKNP 2, b+1+2 is 44 not 48 too.
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BlackPriest
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#8 “Quote” Edit Post
Great thread, very useful.

I'll contribute as soon as I get to test a few things, probably tonight or tomorrow.
adipati
Raijin
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 647
From: Indonesia
PSN: thatgarlicguy
#9 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by The Tekken King
The Punishers damage must be corrected.
Good Post


I am very sorry

thank you for the heads up. I will revise soon.

Thanks everyone
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BlackPriest
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Joined: Sep 2007
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#10 “Quote” Edit Post
As promised, here's some updates...

Corrected punishers:

Standing Punishers
Movement that uses for punish a standing blocked attacks.
1) 10-11f : 1,2,2 (26 dmg)_1,3 (24 dmg)_2,4 (18 dmg)
2) 12f : 1,2,2 (26 dmg), b+4 (14 dmg)
3) 13f : 1,2,2 (26 dmg), b+1+2 (30 dmg, KND, mid range)
4) 15f : uf+4 (13 dmg, Launcher)
5) 19f : ff+4 (13 dmg, Launcher), ff+4<3 (27 dmg, Launcher), f+1+2 (28 dmg, Launcher)
6) 21f : f+3,4 (30 dmg, Launcher, Long Range)

While Standing Punishers
Movement that uses for punish a crouching blocked attacks.
1) 10f : d+1 (5 dmg)
2) 11f : ws+4 (18 dmg)
3) 14f : ws+1,2 (23 dmg)
4) 15f : ws+3 (16 dmg, Launcher)
5) 18f : FC DF+2 (25 dmg, Launcher)
6) 19f : ff+4 (13 dmg, Launcher), ff+4<3 (27 dmg, Launcher)
7) 21f : f+3,4 (30 dmg, Launcher, Long Range) ***

***note: I'm pretty sure f+3,4 can't come out in 21f from crouch, a cc is at least one frame if not more as far as I know.
Also, you should probably add the u/f,N+4 launcher under WS as well for blocking big sweeps that stagger. I have no idea if it is still i23 in T7 though and I have to test the damage, I totally forgot it earlier when practicing.

addition for wall combos:
1,3, b+1+2 is arguably Feng's best wall combo, it does more damage than most of the others and is reliable after a juggle as well as after a power wall splat. It's also the combo I see the most in high level play and tournaments, so it can be considered the staple wall combo.

addition for your combo section:

Uf+4:
- f+1+2 S! ff+4<3, f+1, f+3, b+1+2 (60 damage)

f+3,4
- f+1+2 S! ff+4<3, f+1, f+3, b+1+2 (77 damage)

f+1+2
- short dash, 3,3, f+1, f+3,4, b+1+2 (67 damage)

f+4~b (please include this starter, it's a great safe keepout starter at a bit of a distance)
- BT D/F,n~WS+1, db+1,4 S! dash f+3,4, b+1+2 (55 damage)
- BT D/F,n~WS+1, db+1,4 S! 3~4,3 (51 damage)

ff+4<3 (might as well include this one too since you already have ff+4; while people sometimes don't punish ff+4 because of the possible second hit it is -15, ff+4<3 isn't launch punishable as far as I know)
- f+1+2 S! f+3,4, b+1+2 (60 damage; I'm sure there's better combos off this but I don't use it much)

d/f+3 (please include this safe mid starter too, it's good)
- 2, db+1,4 S! dash f+3,4, b+1+2 (59)

qcf+2
- f+1+2 S! SSR~f+3,4, f+1, f+3,4 (65 damage and great oki as usual)

CH f+(1),1 (this one is a great tool for poking as well, mix up simple 1 checks with delayed 1<1 and you'll can get the CH every now and then; to avoid getting obvious and punished every time mix in some f+1,1,2 and f+1,1,2,1 variations)
- db+1,4 S! dash, 3,3, b+1+2 (64 damage)
- short dash, 3,3, f+1, f+1+2 S! dash d+4,1+2 (62 damage)
- db+1,4 S! dash, f+3,4, b+1+2 (61 damage)
- f+3,4, f+1, f+1+2 S! dash d+4,1+2 (60 damage)

1+2 on successful punch parry
- dash, 1+4, f+1+2 S! ff+4<3, b+1+2 (62 damage)
- dash, 1+4, db+1,4 S! 3~4,3 (57 damage)

FUFT 3+4
- f+1, f+1+2 S! f+3,4, b+1+2 (sorry, I forgot to write the damage down for this one but I think it was something around 57)

additions for your guaranteed damage section:

CH bKNP 1 gives a cc into d+3+4 stomp for 45 damage
CH b,f+1 gives a guaranteed f,f+3 for 51 damage plus further oki in stomp or mids
CH b+1 needs a dash before the b+1+2

-----

I hope this helps. I'll add more in the coming days and weeks.

Last edited by BlackPriest on Jun 20th, 2017 at 10:16

WangIsKhan
Lone Wolf
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 305
From: United States
#11 “Quote” Edit Post
good shit!

you also get small combos off of 1+2 and CH uf2 they require a slight dash into d4, b1+2. also BT 1+2 gives small combo on certain characters. mostly female characters. the juggle is BT 1+2 hold f d4, b1+2. I tested on ling and a few others.

also, anyone know if they changed the frames on f3,4 and cd1? i feel like f3,4 is -16 on block now and cd1 is -14/15 on block depending on range. can anyone confirm?
sheep 2.0
Virtuoso
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 201
From: Philippines
PSN: sheepzaibatsu
#12 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by BlackPriest
As promised, here's some updates...

Corrected punishers:

Standing Punishers
Movement that uses for punish a standing blocked attacks.
1) 10-11f : 1,2,2 (26 dmg)_1,3 (24 dmg)_2,4 (18 dmg)
2) 12f : 1,2,2 (26 dmg), b+4 (14 dmg)
3) 13f : 1,2,2 (26 dmg), b+1+2 (30 dmg, KND, mid range)
4) 15f : uf+4 (13 dmg, Launcher)
5) 19f : ff+4 (13 dmg, Launcher), ff+4<3 (27 dmg, Launcher), f+1+2 (28 dmg, Launcher)
6) 21f : f+3,4 (30 dmg, Launcher, Long Range)

While Standing Punishers
Movement that uses for punish a crouching blocked attacks.
1) 10f : d+1 (5 dmg)
2) 11f : ws+4 (18 dmg)
3) 14f : ws+1,2 (23 dmg)
4) 15f : ws+3 (16 dmg, Launcher)
5) 18f : FC DF+2 (25 dmg, Launcher)
6) 19f : ff+4 (13 dmg, Launcher), ff+4<3 (27 dmg, Launcher)
7) 21f : f+3,4 (30 dmg, Launcher, Long Range) ***

***note: I'm pretty sure f+3,4 can't come out in 21f from crouch, a cc is at least one frame if not more as far as I know.
Also, you should probably add the u/f,N+4 launcher under WS as well for blocking big sweeps that stagger. I have no idea if it is still i23 in T7 though and I have to test the damage, I totally forgot it earlier when practicing.

addition for wall combos:
1,3, b+1+2 is arguably Feng's best wall combo, it does more damage than most of the others and is reliable after a juggle as well as after a power wall splat. It's also the combo I see the most in high level play and tournaments, so it can be considered the staple wall combo.

addition for your combo section:

Uf+4:
- f+1+2 S! ff+4<3, f+1, f+3, b+1+2 (60 damage)

f+3,4
- f+1+2 S! ff+4<3, f+1, f+3, b+1+2 (77 damage)

f+1+2
- short dash, 3,3, f+1, f+3,4, b+1+2 (67 damage)

f+4~b (please include this starter, it's a great safe keepout starter at a bit of a distance)
- BT D/F,n~WS+1, db+1,4 S! dash f+3,4, b+1+2 (55 damage)
- BT D/F,n~WS+1, db+1,4 S! 3~4,3 (51 damage)

ff+4<3 (might as well include this one too since you already have ff+4; while people sometimes don't punish ff+4 because of the possible second hit it is -15, ff+4<3 isn't launch punishable as far as I know)
- f+1+2 S! f+3,4, b+1+2 (60 damage; I'm sure there's better combos off this but I don't use it much)

d/f+3 (please include this safe mid starter too, it's good)
- 2, db+1,4 S! dash f+3,4, b+1+2 (59)

qcf+2
- f+1+2 S! SSR~f+3,4, f+1, f+3,4 (65 damage and great oki as usual)

CH f+(1),1 (this one is a great tool for poking as well, mix up simple 1 checks with delayed 1<1 and you'll can get the CH every now and then; to avoid getting obvious and punished every time mix in some f+1,1,2 and f+1,1,2,1 variations)
- db+1,4 S! dash, 3,3, b+1+2 (64 damage)
- short dash, 3,3, f+1, f+1+2 S! dash d+4,1+2 (62 damage)
- db+1,4 S! dash, f+3,4, b+1+2 (61 damage)
- f+3,4, f+1, f+1+2 S! dash d+4,1+2 (60 damage)

1+2 on successful punch parry
- dash, 1+4, f+1+2 S! ff+4<3, b+1+2 (62 damage)
- dash, 1+4, db+1,4 S! 3~4,3 (57 damage)

FUFT 3+4
- f+1, f+1+2 S! f+3,4, b+1+2 (sorry, I forgot to write the damage down for this one but I think it was something around 57)

additions for your guaranteed damage section:

CH bKNP 1 gives a cc into d+3+4 stomp for 45 damage
CH b,f+1 gives a guaranteed f,f+3 for 51 damage plus further oki in stomp or mids
CH b+1 needs a dash before the b+1+2

-----

I hope this helps. I'll add more in the coming days and weeks.


For i16 add d/b+1,2_d/b+1,4 to that list. Not sure about the damage, but the former gives plenty of plus frames on hit while the latter wall splats, with the second hit being a high.
Signature RIP Old Account (September 2006 - April 2012)


My Player Card
BlackPriest
Expulsion of Fury
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6771
From: Italy
PSN: BlackPriest_ITA
#13 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by sheep 2.0
For i16 add d/b+1,2_d/b+1,4 to that list. Not sure about the damage, but the former gives plenty of plus frames on hit while the latter wall splats, with the second hit being a high.


Do they have more reach or damage than b+1+2? B+1+2 punishes even Paul's deathfist reliably (unless maybe at max range but I'm unsure now).
Climbing Dragon
Iron Fist God
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1520
#14 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by BlackPriest
Do they have more reach or damage than b+1+2? B+1+2 punishes even Paul's deathfist reliably (unless maybe at max range but I'm unsure now).

b+1+2 is 30 damage, d/b+1,4 is 35 damage.
Signature Originally posted by MysticwinD
Fixed tier list for Lili players only needs 2 tiers, one tier with all the chars better than Lili and a second one with just Lili.
BlackPriest
Expulsion of Fury
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6771
From: Italy
PSN: BlackPriest_ITA
#15 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by WangIsKhan also, anyone know if they changed the frames on f3,4 and cd1? i feel like f3,4 is -16 on block now and cd1 is -14/15 on block depending on range. can anyone confirm?


Yes f+3,4 is launch punishable, according to the frame data - 16/-15. Qcf1 is only -14 though if the frame data is right so most character should not be able to launch punish it.

Edit:

More stuff:

SS+4, f+1+2 S! f+3,4, f+1, f+3,4 (64 damage)

Successful 1+2 parry, dash, f+1+2 S! SSR~f+3,4, f+1, f+3,4 (67 damage)

bKNP+3 f+1+2 S! SSR~f+3,4, f+1, f+3,4 (60 damage)

The quick short SSR makes the rest of the combo work and should be a staple. In fact you see it all the time in high level play on these combos, it's not hard to do and very reliable.

Last edited by BlackPriest on Jun 21st, 2017 at 20:29

BlackPriest
Expulsion of Fury
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6771
From: Italy
PSN: BlackPriest_ITA
#16 “Quote” Edit Post
Adipati are you still here? Any chance you'll correct and update the first post?
adipati
Raijin
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 647
From: Indonesia
PSN: thatgarlicguy
#17 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by BlackPriest
Adipati are you still here? Any chance you'll correct and update the first post?


Yes, sorry. i've been busy with the Ramadhan, work, and also playing online.
And your contribution is very appreciated. I also strongly suggest if anyone has their share of opinion on how to make new set ups or better options, please share and let us know. Even little contribution helps.
Signature PSN: thatgarlicguy
Add me as your friend, send me an invitation and lets play!
http://www.facebook.com/adipati.rahmat
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BlackPriest
Expulsion of Fury
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6771
From: Italy
PSN: BlackPriest_ITA
#18 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by adipati
Yes, sorry. i've been busy with the Ramadhan, work, and also playing online.
And your contribution is very appreciated. I also strongly suggest if anyone has their share of opinion on how to make new set ups or better options, please share and let us know. Even little contribution helps.


All right mate, I was afraid we lost you here on the forums.

You're welcome, I'll share more if I find other things.

By the way, I appreciate the thanks, but for the ease of reading you don't have to mention me in the first post, I really don't mind.
BlackPriest
Expulsion of Fury
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6771
From: Italy
PSN: BlackPriest_ITA
#19 “Quote” Edit Post
More stuff:

Under punishers:

I agree that we should list d/b+1,4 for an i16 mid range punisher for 35 damage.
Sadly it still doesn't punish stuff like max range blocked deathfist but it has better range than shoulder and 5 damage more.

Under your juggles section:

Please take out the word "short" in my f+1+2 combo, it needs a proper dash, sorry for this mistake

CH qcf+1, f+1+2 S! SSR~f+3,4, f+1, f+3,4 (70 damage but strict timing on the f+1+2)
CH qcf+1, d/b+1,4 S! dash f+3,4, b+1+2 (65 damage)
CH qcf+1, 1+4, d/b+1,4 S! 3~4,4 (60 damage)

d/b+3, u (to crouch cancel)~f+1+2 S! SSR~f+3,4, f+1, f+3,4 (63 damage)

BT d+3, u (to crouch cancel)~f+1+2 S! SSR~f+3,4, f+1, f+3,4 (64 damage)

(these two sound harder than they are, they are very consistent with a little practice)

SS+4, f+1+2 S! SSR_SSL (to realign depending on which way you did SS+4)~f+3,4, f+1, f+3,4 (64 damage)

The wake up combo FUFT 3+4, f+1, f+1+2 S! f+3,4, b+1+2 is 57 damage
FUFT 3+4, f+1, d/b+1,4 S! dash f+3,4, b+1+2 works and is 57 damage too

As always I have tested these combos extensively on Ling so they should work on everybody.

Under guaranteed damage:

BT 1, b+1+2 (42 damage)

KNP+1, f,f~b+1+2 (41 damage)
KNP+1, f,f+3 (41 damage)

D/f+3+4, 4~3 (43 damage)

CH bKNP 1, f,f+3 (50 dmg)

CH d+2, u (to crouch cancel)~d+3+4 stomp is unescapable and does at least 39 damage, more if they do stupid stuff on the ground

If the opponents back is to the wall the power crush f,f+1+2* (hold) gives a free f+3,4 into wall combo for ridiculous damage. Link to Aris' vid who found it: https://youtu.be/nzSUf0qbYzQ

Oh and you have CH b+1 listed here twice now.

Last edited by BlackPriest on Aug 7th, 2017 at 17:44

adipati
Raijin
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 647
From: Indonesia
PSN: thatgarlicguy
#20 “Quote” Edit Post
oh, thank you for your new suggestions. sorry didnt return to the forum long enough.
been busy with tournaments. i also have few new strategies for feng.
Signature PSN: thatgarlicguy
Add me as your friend, send me an invitation and lets play!
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