Sergei Dragunov: Fated Retribution Edition

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Azaael
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#21 “Quote” Edit Post
Yeah that's what my main brain was telling me since otherwise that way lies madness. Still somehow seemed fast in the vid though, than I'm used to seeing when I compared a couple other tournament vids. I hate when stuff like this happens in new vids. (something looks faster but because a punish gets flubbed...)


EDIT: Liked the blocked qcf+1 into the sidestep again. I do feel they gave just enough juice to the step to maybe make that a thing again(along with ssl-ub+2).

Haven't seen anyone dancing around his stuff(yet).

Again, Nobi's tweets seemed positive which, IMO, is a big plus.

https://twitter.com/daichinobi/stat...078214611038208

(the bing translation thing at the end mentioned the movement is easier and 'Dragunov is mostly unchanged, loooove.' )

Last edited by Azaael on Feb 12th, 2016 at 17:47

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I scribbled a Tekken Retrospective.
Originally posted by Kane:
they named it matterhorn because lili's uphill battle in tekken is the highest mountain to climb.
tyler2k
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#22 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Nyrepose
Shame we couldn't see the damage.
Has there been any footage of b+1,2? The addition of f+3,2 made me think it could be a replacement S to simply balance the d/b+3 and easy CH WR2 combo.
Keep in mind d/b+3 has been slowed down and now staggers on block. There's little reason to nerf it past that by removing b+1,2.
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Azaael
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From: Finland
#23 “Quote” Edit Post
I think judging by the few matches Nobi played(was really hoping for more today, he still might play more of course, guess they're letting the 'Normal People' play some without getting bodied), all of the S! moves are intact.

Nobi was partying a bit-you could tell he wasn't playing hardcore, but he still plowed through a couple people. I'll have to rewatch the stuff though to see any potential stuff but things seem like they are looking good. Like, extremely good.
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I scribbled a Tekken Retrospective.
Originally posted by Kane:
they named it matterhorn because lili's uphill battle in tekken is the highest mountain to climb.
Azaael
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Posts: 3652
From: Finland
#24 “Quote” Edit Post
Also: f+3,2 confirmed to wall splat for a seemingly nasty combo.

Drag buff by the look.



EDIT: Saw his RAtk blocked. Wasn't punished any of the times.


Also here are Nobi's few matches. The big names didn't play very long. (They were doing arcade to arcade testing. Guess they were sparing the randoms. ) He goes total mess-around in the last fight though doing things I generally would not expect.


http://www.twitch.tv/tekken/v/44412207?t=01m48s

I think his PC actually wallsplats?

(they were on network the whole time as said-some lag-combo drops were abound on all sides.)

There's one other unknown(pretty good, but loses at the end) Drag who I don't know who it was that shows up around 24 mins as well.


EDIT 2: PC causes KND as well now, I think? Don't want to confirm yet as there may be animation changes im not used to yet . (I saw Bryan hit Drag with a generic d+4 after a blocked stomp but Nobi was standing so I want to say it's still -11 on block. Probably was anticipating a WS4.)

Last edited by Azaael on Feb 13th, 2016 at 12:04

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I scribbled a Tekken Retrospective.
Originally posted by Kane:
they named it matterhorn because lili's uphill battle in tekken is the highest mountain to climb.
Bopper
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#25 “Quote” Edit Post
The PC definetly causes KND/Wallsplat on CH, hard to see if it was NH or not. Nice change! It felt pretty weak before.
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Azaael
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From: Finland
#26 “Quote” Edit Post
Adjusted the top with a few of the known changes. I'm wondering if they did a go-over of some of the crappier PCs as a whole. They're still not normalized but I feel they at least helped some of the 'they hit and do nothing else' ones out.

This is a nice change. Will add a nice bit of extra threat(above what he already had) to people trying to get cute by the wall. If it causes KND on NH as well? Bonus. Looks like you can get a stomp after it KND's though it has a window(he gets one after tagging the other guy out of the air but wasn't fast enough for the other one.)

So far Drag is straight up looking monstrous still. Going to cross fingers they don't tone something back(that isn't a mass system change that hits everyone.) I'm confident, but always a little nervous.

Also I'll say because all the play has been online, it's a shame the network doesn't seem super-perfect atm; there were pretty much combo drops all across the board with about anyone. So getting frame information is going to be trying, at best; hopefully the next loc test offers offline local.

Otherwise it's probably waiting until May-June(which I am assuming when the release is since EVO is July), to get proper offline play.

EDIT: More Videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmakUuNM1n8 (vs. Claudio)


A pretty quick one and at a bad angle, but there we go.

Last edited by Azaael on Feb 13th, 2016 at 19:48

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I scribbled a Tekken Retrospective.
Originally posted by Kane:
they named it matterhorn because lili's uphill battle in tekken is the highest mountain to climb.
tyler2k
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#27 “Quote” Edit Post
Interestingly enough this now gives Dragunov a W! to both his left and right. Nice buff. I don't think it's nearly as good as it seems but the more NH W!/KND Dragunov can get, the better.
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Azaael
March of Tyranny
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 3652
From: Finland
#28 “Quote” Edit Post
So they did those exhibitions(you can guess who wins probably out of the 5 matches, though they played it well I feel). Nobi straight up did a lot of experimenting in these; he wasn't relying on your standard optimized launch-f+4,4,3 stuff. It was clear he was trying new stuff out, with the new S!, trying to see other ways to put combos together and the like.

https://youtu.be/wDrxEtVj-ng Part 1 (2 matches)

https://youtu.be/YGAjdT6JCrM Part 2(3 matches)


When I go back and look at the combo lists I don't see a lot of these things on the lists. (backswing combo near the start had the b+4,3 whiff, but I guess you'd need to use f+3,2 or f+1+2 on that one...I know b+4,3 is actually a bit frame-exacting to land sometimes, or so I hear.)

He does the f+3~CDc into the f+3,2 at one point and the carry is just batshit on that. I am liking the addition of it.

https://youtu.be/YGAjdT6JCrM?t=349

Power crush seen here and given he did it after Akuma attacked, I want to say that is, indeed, a NH KND. I do think it's -12 is about accurate that's on ina? Seems fair for a 21-ish frame armored move that gives KND/W!.

His RA DOES Knock them away a bit much if used mid match, but it's not so far that one can't run up and at least start harrying them as he does.(And yeah, there is no such thing as a 'match point RA' or 'round end RA', they're just RAs, and they I guess decided to change the ones who got the biggest complaints/maybe Drag and DvJ because Nobi/Knee were the KoIFT finalists, I have no idea.)

https://youtu.be/YGAjdT6JCrM?t=418

Neat combo, it is I feel worth messing with them with a flip-move by the wall, you either get a stomp or force them into potential more damage(Nobi is a fan of the f,f+2, 1+2 throw or the uf+3+4 in that scenario, also remembering db+3 shenanigans I've seen people pull).

https://youtu.be/YGAjdT6JCrM?t=469

Compare this for a second to the belly flip above, it looks like they may have taken the flip off of 4,3? That looked like a spike to me, the unteched belly-flip has a clearly different animation. Would be nice to get the free stomp on this again.

Also apparently remember uf+4 as an option vs. jumping Akumers. (I imagine iWS4 still bobbles them too?)

https://youtu.be/YGAjdT6JCrM?t=789

almost 38% from a LP combo(with a wall but still)

Yeah that's about it for now, others can probably find more cool stuff, I didn't analyze these super hard.
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I scribbled a Tekken Retrospective.
Originally posted by Kane:
they named it matterhorn because lili's uphill battle in tekken is the highest mountain to climb.
Bopper
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#29 “Quote” Edit Post
4,3 didnt give the guaranteed stomp in Vanilla t7? I tought the bounce was only when you hit airborne opponents with it.
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Azaael
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From: Finland
#30 “Quote” Edit Post
I know after W!, 4,3 was reported to give the techable flip, and I'm looking back over the videos again since I know one of us saw the thing give the flip before. It was touched on in some thread somewhere that I recall lamenting you couldn't get the freebie anymore after it.

regardless at least it seems a guaranteed stomp is in FR if used alone. it may have only been in combos? I've been here thinking we done lost it.
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I scribbled a Tekken Retrospective.
Originally posted by Kane:
they named it matterhorn because lili's uphill battle in tekken is the highest mountain to climb.
Bopper
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#31 “Quote” Edit Post
Pretty sure its only in juggles. I havent seen any move do that animation on grounded opponents.
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Azaael
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#32 “Quote” Edit Post
I want to say it was a gif I saw way back that probably had me thinking that, along with someone telling me CH 4,3 no longer gave a free stomp and I believed them since I couldn't find anything proving otherwise. (While I am one of the people patient for the game, this is one of those times i REALLY wish I had it to test.)

In any case hey one of those times I'd happily be wrong.

EDIT: Ahhha! Because it was driving me nuts on trying to find out where I got it from, I was looking through old notes. Apparently way back when people were still figuring out the mechanics(like, early 7.0), I was mistaken that strings also caused the flip. 4,3 is a string(NCc), and that's probably why I was somewhere convinced(after I hear a lot of those old B! moves caused the flip) that we no longer got the freebie period.

Again, happy to have been mistaken here.

Last edited by Azaael on Feb 20th, 2016 at 16:53

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I scribbled a Tekken Retrospective.
Originally posted by Kane:
they named it matterhorn because lili's uphill battle in tekken is the highest mountain to climb.
Nyrepose
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#33 “Quote” Edit Post
https://youtu.be/uGqEOE1Dlss?t=515

It looks like Raging 2(giggle) has less range than running 2?
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Azaael
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#34 “Quote” Edit Post
A little bit by the look? I mean it's at the very least safe if not + on block, the same speed that I can see and the NH launch. They maybe wanted to shave a few pixels off the hit box unless that was a weird instance.
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I scribbled a Tekken Retrospective.
Originally posted by Kane:
they named it matterhorn because lili's uphill battle in tekken is the highest mountain to climb.
Climbing Dragon
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#35 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Azaael
His RA DOES Knock them away a bit much if used mid match, but it's not so far that one can't run up and at least start harrying them as he does.(And yeah, there is no such thing as a 'match point RA' or 'round end RA', they're just RAs, and they I guess decided to change the ones who got the biggest complaints/maybe Drag and DvJ because Nobi/Knee were the KoIFT finalists, I have no idea.)

If that is true, then I honestly think that's the most retarded reason to change a move in the game (or any other game, for that matter). I remember seeing numerous complaints (not just on TZ but other forums as well) about Rage Arts being dull-looking and those were generally universal complaints, not just for specific characters. I find it kinda absurd that only two characters received new RAs (the match point RAs would've been a cool addition too, imo) and if they indeed changed them based on the results of a tournament as opposed to fans' criticism, it makes it that much more ridiculous.

On another note, I'm happy to see that Drag's new f+3,2 is an enhanced version of his old f+3,2 and works very similarly. I think the second hit might also S! instantly on CH, or at least it occurs that way to me.
Signature Originally posted by MysticwinD
Fixed tier list for Lili players only needs 2 tiers, one tier with all the chars better than Lili and a second one with just Lili.
Nyrepose
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#36 “Quote” Edit Post
It could be they plan to change more RA's, but opted to start with the ones played by the players that are getting the most views.
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Azaael
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From: Finland
#37 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Climbing Dragon
If that is true, then I honestly think that's the most retarded reason to change a move in the game (or any other game, for that matter). I remember seeing numerous complaints (not just on TZ but other forums as well) about Rage Arts being dull-looking and those were generally universal complaints, not just for specific characters. I find it kinda absurd that only two characters received new RAs (the match point RAs would've been a cool addition too, imo) and if they indeed changed them based on the results of a tournament as opposed to fans' criticism, it makes it that much more ridiculous.

On another note, I'm happy to see that Drag's new f+3,2 is an enhanced version of his old f+3,2 and works very similarly. I think the second hit might also S! instantly on CH, or at least it occurs that way to me.




Oh lordy that was a complete and total asspull of stuff from a bag of stuff. Like, I'm going to say 'those were the two that got the most criticism', but I figured to sit there and throw out a bunch of random possibilities.

I sincerely doubt that was it. Like,the chance of that being it was probably so minute that it was at the bottom of the bag of reasons I could think of.

They would have said 'And you're fighting for the chance for a new RA' I think in an announcement beforehand if that was the case. I almost regret throwing it out lest some weird rumors start since I should know better than to bring up even stupid things on the internet(not you but others), but again I was just sort of asspulling everything. (Basically when it gets asked about the RAs around online, it could literally be any reason.)

IMO? It was honestly just a case of 'well, these got the biggest feedback, so we decided to clean them up and then use camera angles and some fun stuff with the rest of them since those didn't get as much negative feedback, and start fresh with something new with all the returning characters coming forward.' Or it was a case that maybe they felt they could play with camera angles on the rest of the old crew and those just didn't work out as well so they adjusted them.

Also Nyre has that-while I think any FR characters are set in stone(since they're new and they already have fancier looking ones, well, Akuma's was sort of a given and Nina's got the crazy luchaspin), they maybe have the others queued up still. Or some others, IF they change more, I suspect some like King and Steve might stick, Claudio's is pretty elaborate, and Paul's has his whole cancel thing I think they want to keep. Xiaoyu's I honestly think they did well with playing with the camera angles on since it was already like a flowing, fitting combo for her.

But yeah f+3,2 I think is going to also help new players out-they're not going to have to wrestle right away with the f+3 CDc carry rhythm. Not too difficult, no, but to a new player I can see it being a little trying; best to practice with one and then be able to carry with f+3,2. Of course big stages/being at the far end the f+3 will I think still come in, but the fact the f+3 series is a lot of small hits in heavily scaled combos, yeah, I like what it can do.

No ina info yet on how it's handled on NH/CH yet, or it's frames except for it's a 20f move.
Signature

I scribbled a Tekken Retrospective.
Originally posted by Kane:
they named it matterhorn because lili's uphill battle in tekken is the highest mountain to climb.
Bopper
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#38 “Quote” Edit Post
I dont really think f+3,2 will be that useful in combos tbh. If you wanna S! early b+4,3 is a way better option, and if you want carry its better to S! late with f+3 CDc f+1, f+1+2. IIRC that combo already maxes out the nr of hits nicely.
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Azaael
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From: Finland
#39 “Quote” Edit Post
b+4,3 is the early one as Nobi shows, it's damage is just too high not to be, but he seems to be milking f+3,2 quite a bit at the moment experimenting with it. Of course it may just be that-experimentation is why he's using it a lot. It seems to come into play during the easy-55% RM combo.

I think it's going to be decent for something; I'm looking forward to seeing maybe what Kkokkoma does with it during Green's loc test if he's playing him and for another test in Japan, I kinda hope they get one or two more before release.

Out of combos it's a 20f, mh non-jailing combo(probably NC still like the old, or I'd hope.)

EDIT: there is that, too-f+1+2 doesn't carry as far, though it is single hit which helps with the scaling. f+3,2 does seem to give the most of the bunch that I can compare?
Signature

I scribbled a Tekken Retrospective.
Originally posted by Kane:
they named it matterhorn because lili's uphill battle in tekken is the highest mountain to climb.
Climbing Dragon
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Posts: 1520
#40 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Bopper
I dont really think f+3,2 will be that useful in combos tbh. If you wanna S! early b+4,3 is a way better option, and if you want carry its better to S! late with f+3 CDc f+1, f+1+2. IIRC that combo already maxes out the nr of hits nicely.

True, but sometimes you can't quite reach the wall with f+1+2 so you need the actual wall splat, for which f+3,2 is really good. It's very much like his old f+3,2 which was usually used in case you were too close to the wall to do f+3~CDc 4,1.

EDIT: Nobi did f+3,2 vs. Tokido and he couldn't (or didn't?) block the second hit so it's safe to assume it's NC.
Signature Originally posted by MysticwinD
Fixed tier list for Lili players only needs 2 tiers, one tier with all the chars better than Lili and a second one with just Lili.

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