Tekken 7 Dragunov

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Azaael
March of Tyranny
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 3652
From: Finland
#21 “Quote” Edit Post
Thanks! Yeah I sadly conked out when before I could write up a couple more things to test, it was almost 3 am here. Sounded like fun though, not surprised the line was long as shit. Thanks for testing the stuff. Nice you took vid too I was hoping about that.

Last edited by Azaael on Apr 5th, 2015 at 09:07

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I scribbled a Tekken Retrospective.
Originally posted by Kane:
they named it matterhorn because lili's uphill battle in tekken is the highest mountain to climb.
tyler2k
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#22 “Quote” Edit Post
1:25:12 - d/b+3 hits CH but isn't registered as AT (result of new system probably)
1:26:12 - 3,1<2 no longer causes 360 track
2:12:18 - qcf+2 has hitbox issues hitting low stances (maybe Katarina issue)
2:13:02 - Opponent able to block PC after doing string
3:05:35 - u/f+1 no longer provides a consistent stun, requires a lot of awareness now
3:08:43 - b+2 can hit meaty against backroll, no pick up
3:09:15 - CH d/f+1,4 axis issues
3:56:35 - 1+2 into d/b+3 is not a valid option
3:56:47 - qcf+1+2 can hit meaty against backroll, that damage doe

In general 4,4 only works only after 1-hit, that means you break the wall with 1-hit, you can 4,4. If you 1-hit W! then 1-hit WB! then 4,4 doesn't work and that sucks so much.

System/General information:

  • PC is vulnerable at the beginning of the animation, can't use it as a reactive interrupt
  • Forgotten Realm is sickest map ever, it's a combo optomizer's dream. If Forgotten Realm won't be the hypest thing ever at Evo, I don't know what would be.

0:09:50 - b+4,3 is registered as S! even though it causes WB!
1:19:01 - Meaty FUFA attacks still cause the opponent to recover BT
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Azaael
March of Tyranny
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 3652
From: Finland
#23 “Quote” Edit Post
Scribbling some very fast thoughts to respond to these for now:

Okies for the d/b+3: I've seen it CH throw tons in vids so I'm guessing it just needs a 'tighter' window due to the system?

3,1>2 no longer 360 tracks i wonder if that's a Dragunov specific change or a system 'we don't want anyone to do this' change.

Would probably need to see some other low stances vs. qcf+2 to confirm(or perhaps some other characters' moves vs. others like that to see if Kat is kinda good at evading some stuff or not.)

PC shows up as i17 on Ina, could that have been the issue? looked like opponent did 1,1 and then blocked in the vid.

Not much to respond on u/f+1 but 'will remember for actual T7 play'

Nice b+2 find, not surprised at no pick up(due to the general nerf they did to oki), sounds like an option for if they get blown too far back for easy stomp follow up

Yes, when I read you wrote this I remember seeing this in another video too, though I forget which one now(and I had forgotten until I read this). It seems to have a bit of axis issue on both NH and CH even if they seemingly made the NH version harder to duck(CH of course doesn't have that issue but it seemed to pick up the axis issue.)

Looks like the PC knocks them back a bit too far. (PCs seem to be varying in this game, unless your name is Hwoarang and then your PCs are almost godlike.)

Okay I admit I'm liking that a lot, seems to be better than the b+2 option if they're a little further back.


BY the look of your list, vids and the various feedback from the arcades that have it, Dragunov is still as good as they say-a few changes both buff and tone back(some tone back due to system stuff), but the new system is going to change some strats? Not that I didn't expect that to happen somewhat-I mean watching you play and watching like all the video matches he seems to still be Dragunov.

I...had a feeling about 4,4 with the single hit thing since that's what I've been seeing in the vids. It has the biggest damage chunk but the wonkiest hitbox, and yeah, with them not wanting too much crazy at the wall I guess I can see this being the case.

Actually one thing I see people doing in vids is occasionally ending a combo for the wall break with f,f+3, after an S!. It's pretty occasional though. It is a single hit however.

I can't say I'm sad to hear that about PCs to be honest, would rather them have opted to err to the side of 'not spamming' than 'spamming', just need to make sure you learn your opponent's PC frames...though I hope this doesn't end up a case of TR's silly invincible frames nonsense. I hope that they're generally balanced.

Going to include Forgotten Realm in your 'Combo Optimizing and You' post? kappa

-this could mean fun for wall breaking and combo continuation, I have seen Knee and Nobi do a few ridiculous damage combos after a wall/floor break.

-And finally, welp, if their back is to you then possibly ouch for them.

Do you have any video of the WR2 wake up game? Or more just raw data on that?

Last edited by Azaael on Apr 6th, 2015 at 19:17

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I scribbled a Tekken Retrospective.
Originally posted by Kane:
they named it matterhorn because lili's uphill battle in tekken is the highest mountain to climb.
Azaael
March of Tyranny
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 3652
From: Finland
#24 “Quote” Edit Post
He's had a speed change on d/b+3. No idea if this is good or bad yet. FWIW, a couple of other people have moves that are reported speed changes.

WOULDN'T be surprised if they slowed it down by a frame since getting hit with it, unless you're too far back means a full combo or near 40% of your life gone. (Asuka got a low change as well I believe, and hopkicks have been nerfed all around. Fistbump with the other characters who don't have hopkicks and thus didn't rely on them.) That is Dragunov's sole change listed, FWIW.

After changes like Devil Jin no longer getting the free 1,1,2 and King's Shining Wizard no longer causing FB! let's say if this move is slowed down a frame I'll not cry too hard.

EDIT: Yeah, his d/b+3(and Asuka's 3~4 FWIW) are a couple of frames slower. Kane had pointed out that between these and hopkick nerfs, it could be online changes? Wouldn't surprise me.

Okay, ina has the following info:

d/b+3: i23(which hadn''t changed even with a lot of refreshing)
d/b+3(Long Distance): i25~26(up from i23~24).


(for comparison, Asuka's is showing up as 26~27S)

Last edited by Azaael on Apr 30th, 2015 at 13:43

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I scribbled a Tekken Retrospective.
Originally posted by Kane:
they named it matterhorn because lili's uphill battle in tekken is the highest mountain to climb.
tyler2k
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#25 “Quote” Edit Post
Asuka's nerf is the really surprising one, I wonder if they nerfed it because it can be cancelled?
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Azaael
March of Tyranny
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 3652
From: Finland
#26 “Quote” Edit Post
...Good point. It was again already the slower of the two. Maybe the cancel aspect made them a little iffy or something-we probably don't get to see nearly all the matches on youtube, could have been someone came up with some recent tech utilizing the cancel that went beyond their sorta 'limits.'
Signature

I scribbled a Tekken Retrospective.
Originally posted by Kane:
they named it matterhorn because lili's uphill battle in tekken is the highest mountain to climb.
Bopper
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2056
From: Sweden
PSN: MAGUNITO
#27 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by tyler2k
Asuka's nerf is the really surprising one, I wonder if they nerfed it because it can be cancelled?


They also made the combo significantly easier in T7 (but perhaps you know that )
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Azaael
March of Tyranny
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 3652
From: Finland
#28 “Quote” Edit Post
Okies, ina was updated with the overall 2 frames nerf. (I was waiting for it all to update.) I don't think we'll see Drag terribly hurt by this-db+3 is strong and I think we might see other characters' lows getting hit besides too. Just a hunch.
Signature

I scribbled a Tekken Retrospective.
Originally posted by Kane:
they named it matterhorn because lili's uphill battle in tekken is the highest mountain to climb.
Azaael
March of Tyranny
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 3652
From: Finland
#29 “Quote” Edit Post
http://seesaawiki.jp/w/inatekken/d/...%b5%bbT7


Well ina is showing 25 frames all around for it, but nothing else has changed. I mean it's seeable no doubt, but I'll say so far I haven't heard any Dragunov players particularly upset about it yet. Generally at this point in time I expect massive internet blowback against even small nerfs(I get a bit cynical here I admit ) so when I don't hear much I generally think it's business as usual.
Signature

I scribbled a Tekken Retrospective.
Originally posted by Kane:
they named it matterhorn because lili's uphill battle in tekken is the highest mountain to climb.
tyler2k
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Posts: 2794
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#30 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Bopper
They also made the combo significantly easier in T7 (but perhaps you know that )
Indeed, but I was writing under the auspices that Dragunov clean d/b+3 hadn't been nerfed (which admittedly doesn't make too much sense but who knows). This is a pretty big nerf to be honest, especially considering the fact it's a stagger stun on block, but oh well.
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Azaael
March of Tyranny
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 3652
From: Finland
#31 “Quote” Edit Post
Yeah, ina for some reason took like a day to update the clean one. I have no idea how that was so hard to see for the update if it's supposed to be seeable for the update. I mean I'm not happy about it but at the same time I'm sort of not surprised since I do notice they take a heavier hand with certain moves. I guess they thought 'full combo, 40% damage on CH, better make it seeable' or something.

EDIT: They seem to be playing it overly safe with certain moves. Like, they buff backswing to be no longer launch punishable on block(and made qcf+2 -13 as well), the former surprising a lot. b+1+2 gives +6 on block which is kind of a decent amount of frames(not to mention WR2 seemingly coming up on all reports as +5 now instead of +4.) They seem to be playing it overly cautious with other moves(in particular wall moves as well.)

I didn't see what move it was(translated weird) but Feng apparently had something nerfed from -14 to -19(Note: it was his f+2,1,2 it seems.)

Will have to see what happens on console.

Last edited by Azaael on May 1st, 2015 at 17:16

Signature

I scribbled a Tekken Retrospective.
Originally posted by Kane:
they named it matterhorn because lili's uphill battle in tekken is the highest mountain to climb.
Bopper
Iron Fist God
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2056
From: Sweden
PSN: MAGUNITO
#32 “Quote” Edit Post
Wtf qcf+2 is -13 as well? Thats pretty big. Kinda weird changes for qcf2 and qcb2 to be honest....
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Azaael
March of Tyranny
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 3652
From: Finland
#33 “Quote” Edit Post
Yep, both were changed to no longer be launch punishable. They continue to keep showing up as -13, and ina to give them some credit has been at least *fairly* decent with updating(they were only a day late on the db+3, to be fair). I'm not even 100% positive when the change went through, but it's been quite awhile-I want to say since around the official release? Like the March release. I think it was Kane that pointed it out when these threads were still on the basic forum. I remember being pretty surprised when I saw it, because I think it was maybe a week before that that I found out they made b+1+2 +6 on block.
Signature

I scribbled a Tekken Retrospective.
Originally posted by Kane:
they named it matterhorn because lili's uphill battle in tekken is the highest mountain to climb.
tyler2k
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Posts: 2794
From: USA California
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#34 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Bopper
Wtf qcf+2 is -13 as well? Thats pretty big. Kinda weird changes for qcf2 and qcb2 to be honest....
Yeah, super weird to be honest. Strange to nerf WS+1+2 but buff his launchers.
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satch89
Destroyer
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 352
From: USA Connecticut
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#35 “Quote” Edit Post
For anyone who may know,
I posted this in a different thread, but I figure you guys might know.
Drag has a string, I think it is db+2, 2, 2 (The notation might be different) where on the last being a counter hit, you could combo with iWS 4 into a Bnb. Can you now combo that with d+2, ws4, b+2, 2 due to b+2,2 giving s! ?
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Azaael
March of Tyranny
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 3652
From: Finland
#36 “Quote” Edit Post
Posted it in the tier thread, but it was db+2,1,2. m,m,m NCc. Nice damage, delayable that you could mess people up with it, awesome string IMO. I haven't seen it used much though these days sadly. You could do that version or the d+2, WS+4, d+4,1,3 which was the B! saving wall carry. I'm sure you could toy with the d+2, WS4 or the iWS4 in T7, unless they changed something about the move that isn't recorded yet? In my pulling combos off of videos though I haven't really seen this moved used as much these days. It doesn't appear to be changed in any way from it's previous incarnations according to the raw data, but who knows if that's accurate.

I think Tyler is the only Drag mainer here that's actually played the game yet. So long as the move works the same I can't see why it wouldn't work out(could get some nice combo, maybe squeeze an S! move in before a W!?)
Signature

I scribbled a Tekken Retrospective.
Originally posted by Kane:
they named it matterhorn because lili's uphill battle in tekken is the highest mountain to climb.
tyler2k
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Posts: 2794
From: USA California
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#37 “Quote” Edit Post
d/b+2,1,2 hasn't been NCc since DR. T6 and on it's been d/b+2,1 NC and CH (d/b+2),1,2 being NCc leading into launcher or CH (d/b+2,1),2 launching as well.

CH (d/b+2),1,2, d+2, WS+4, b+1,2 S! works
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Tutorial Series: iWS tutorial video | CC and CDc tutorial video | Hit Confirm tutorial video
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Azaael
March of Tyranny
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 3652
From: Finland
#38 “Quote” Edit Post
b+1,2, cool. Why the hell did I forget it was CH. I need help. (I dunno how I still mistake DR stuff. I've done this before with a couple of moves.)
Signature

I scribbled a Tekken Retrospective.
Originally posted by Kane:
they named it matterhorn because lili's uphill battle in tekken is the highest mountain to climb.
Aminegriffy
Berserker
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 436
From: United Kingdom
#39 “Quote” Edit Post
I'm glad they got rid of dragunov f443 f1 ff2 combo, it was pain in the ass to do in TTT2 especially on 3 bars connection. Dragunov combos on t7 seems easier, I don't know about fff2 ch combo though is still iws4 is only option ? or you can dash and do an instant tail spin for less damage
Azaael
March of Tyranny
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 3652
From: Finland
#40 “Quote” Edit Post
http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/forum...threadid=131074 Combo thread is currently going here. Haven't updated it yet this week(been a bit busier than usual.) Been slowly getting more off the videos to note them.

So far there is a d+2, WS4 variant as you see in the list that gets done. Those have dash-ins at the start.

Keep in mind these are very early combos and are likely not optimized yet-I'm basically noting anything and everything I can get for now; I'm actually quite looking forward to going through a few of Knee's recent streams since he's been getting more damaging ones yet out of him, so optimization is happening.

There's also a Help Me vs. Orange video I've been wanting to go through that's about 50 minutes long, Orange does some nice stuff with him in it.
Signature

I scribbled a Tekken Retrospective.
Originally posted by Kane:
they named it matterhorn because lili's uphill battle in tekken is the highest mountain to climb.

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