Sergei Dragunov in Tekken 7

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Azaael
March of Tyranny
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 3652
From: Finland
#1 “Quote” Edit Post
Alrighty, there are honestly people here much more suited than I to do this thread I think. I'm a 'business casual' player and not even that long posting here besides(visited for a few years at least.) But since it hasn't been posted I figured I'd take a chance with it. (Longtime Drag posters, if you were planning on doing one, I can axe this in place of it.)

EDIT: Took out all the old stuff since it was in a build that was like 6 months old. Was mostly speculation about Power Crushes, etc.

Videos:

Vs. Steve 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srSLtYH5aa8
Vs. Steve 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mw-EYlDoeA4
A short Vs. Lars: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds7EQlkyyQ4
Vs. Shaheen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VO6OBItxps
Vs. Leo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_NvZiJ9KJ4
Vs. Paul: http://youtu.be/CxkC58UELBo
Vs. Steve 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKCiqBPcjG0 (real soviet damage)
Vs. Claudio: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GL6...eature=youtu.be (Really Real Soviet Damage)

List of changes found/listed on ina/discussed around(subject to change):


b+1+2 now +6 on block(up from +3/+4, buff)

qcf+2 now -13 on block(down from -14, buff)

qcb+2 now -13 on block(down from -15, buff)

WS 1+2 now -15 on block(up from -14, nerf)

WR2 now +5-6 on block(up from +4-6, buff)

f,f+2 now -11-10? on block(POSSIBLY down from -12-11, buff)-this one seems iffy so take it with an extra grain of salt than the rest but it is there

Pressure Ridge(u-u/f+2, new launcher) possibly -7 on block(move is buffed regardless from it's old format)

d/b+3's CH damage buffed(do not know the exact numbers yet but it does around 40% damage)

d/b+3 gives full combo on NH, on axis(buffed)

d/b+3 now staggers on block(move is overall absolutely buffed, this was needed to balance it out)

d/b+3 now i25, 25~26 from afar. Frame nerf, most likely due to the overall strength of the move(full combo, massive damage on CH) and they seem to be hitting 'big power lows' in a similar manner.

Just Discovered: db+3~1+2 is now apparently cancellable. (positive change which one would call a buff)

d+3, 4 is reverted to it's pre Tekken Revolution status

CH (d+3),4 causes screen freeze on trade for a very hard to avoid followup

ina frame page:
http://seesaawiki.jp/w/inatekken/d/...%b5%bbT7


rbnorway frame page: http://rbnorway.org/dragunov-t7-frames/

Last edited by Azaael on Jul 18th, 2015 at 18:35

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I scribbled a Tekken Retrospective.
Originally posted by Kane:
they named it matterhorn because lili's uphill battle in tekken is the highest mountain to climb.
Vandenreich
Champion
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 268
From: United States
PSN: Vandenreich006
#2 “Quote” Edit Post
Finally a real thread. Screw Lili and Xiaoyu.

Dragunov still doesn't have a hopekick and I'm happy about that. I saw his uf3 and uf4 used mid-match and as I said in another topic, his core moves and playstyle are still the same judging from the alpha matches.

Haven't seen any matches with Drag's ff4 being used. Lets cross our fingers and hope it has crush properties.
Signature Is it possible to play Ranked Match for 1 hour without getting hate mail from someone who doesn't know how to block or adapt?

Bopper
Iron Fist God
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2056
From: Sweden
PSN: MAGUNITO
#3 “Quote” Edit Post
He seems to get a full combo from db+3 now even without an angle. pretty huge change.
Signature Brrrrrrrrrrrap
Azaael
March of Tyranny
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 3652
From: Finland
#4 “Quote” Edit Post
Damn. I knew I was looking at something in those vids that I for some reason was not making the connection with. You're right. And that is pretty damn big. Big and good.

And here we go: Nobi playing Drag for his allowed matches(I believe i read that you're allowed only a few wins before you have to let someone else have a turn, not sure if it's true, but it would explain how he lost to stuff that even I saw coming and Nobi could beat me if he was one-armed, blindfolded, tired and drunk, and he could do it with two perfects-he looked like he was kinda screwing around there). He tried to combo the rage art a couple of times but whiffed it in the CPU matches. It does combo I think, perhaps different timing or not the ways he tried.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lgt6MUqDkJg

Will have to kinda digest these but saw some awesome stuff. And sick enders. His rage attack ending a match is amazing at the right angle. (Also, check out the combo done at 3:15 or so. Assuming 180 life bars that was nasty.)

Also: someone needs to gif this exchange and the ender: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lgt...etailpage#t=278

Last edited by Azaael on Oct 5th, 2014 at 18:09

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I scribbled a Tekken Retrospective.
Originally posted by Kane:
they named it matterhorn because lili's uphill battle in tekken is the highest mountain to climb.
Bopper
Iron Fist God
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2056
From: Sweden
PSN: MAGUNITO
#5 “Quote” Edit Post
Im pretty sure you can only hit the super after a bound. On that note, has anyone seen any bound moves other then 4,4? A bit limiting if thats the only one (doubt it).
Signature Brrrrrrrrrrrap
Azaael
March of Tyranny
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 3652
From: Finland
#6 “Quote” Edit Post
Well, I know that bound seems a lot more limited for everyone. Floor breaks cause bounds so I guess anything of his that can cause a floor break. But yeah I haven't seen too many others(I did miss like 2 hours today.) There seems to be that 'spin' thing that happens nowadays. (Also-I had to add. If d/b+3 is a low, and allows a full combo from any angle, and power crushes are broken by lows...could be useful to know.)

There is also another Hwoarang match here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVI-WwyGtOU (No new bounds shown.)

I'm noticing that a lot of the Drag fights over the past couple days were a bit less on the 'experimental' side, if you will. More sticking to his usual stuff. A few new things tried for sure but I don't think they went too overboard. It could be a case of the first test folks just wanted to see what of his old stuff worked first. Maybe with more experimenting we'll see more of his moves that might cause this stuff.

Also, someone pointed out this in the Hwoarang thread:


Speaking of oki I saw an opponent quick getting up from normal side roll still being juggled by db+4,4. So that seems solid. I have yet to see any BT getups though... hope those are still there. I did also see a Heihachi v Lars match where Heihachi did hunting hawk to knock Lars into FDFA right next to the wall, Hei then went for the stomp, Lars got up and the stomp just whiffed I really hope thats not a thing...


If stomps are easier to dodge, this could mean Drag's getting better because of the fact it's the safest of the lot as far as I can see still, and because of the d+3 option select. d+3 has pretty decent tracking and reach, and honestly, if people will be able to wake easier from stomps nowadays the knockback suddenly became-just IMO-not as annoying, if he'll end up swinging into d+3 instead more often.

Depends how it all works, mind you, and it might be too early to tell from the one example above but if you buffer and he swaps to d+3 instead on a getup it could mean a bonus compared to everyone else's who just get stuck with their proverbial pants down and punished(even launch punishable in some cases).

Still highly in speculation mode of course. It could be stuff ends up as bad for him as it does everyone else with this thing.

Last edited by Azaael on Oct 5th, 2014 at 22:17

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I scribbled a Tekken Retrospective.
Originally posted by Kane:
they named it matterhorn because lili's uphill battle in tekken is the highest mountain to climb.
Rival_31
Kyu
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5
From: Guam
PSN: Rival_31
#7 “Quote” Edit Post
I'm wondering if his
b4,3
f1+2
1,2,1
or
ws1+2
may cause the new K! or T!
Haven't seen these used while in the air yet.

if ws1+2 does then that'll make combos easier but I doubt it.
Azaael
March of Tyranny
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 3652
From: Finland
#8 “Quote” Edit Post
Hmm, since some discussion has been going on in other threads about changes wanted-what would be some changes folks might want with Dragunov here? I have a few that come to mind(besides the ones I mentioned up top like maybe stomp not blasting them back as far, and others I've mentioned a lot like an i14 NH KND.)

-Wouldn't mind seeing WR2 +5 on block, especially if the B! properties go away. I have a feeling that this move(along with many others in the game on all characters) is going to lose it, since K! seems to be taking over a lot of B! moves, and B! moves are going to apparently be very sporadic. I think the move will still be one of Drag's best(if not his damn best one), giving it +5 without B! will keep the pressure up and make it owwie.

-f,f+4 should crush something reliably as I've mentioned. I'd prefer it to crush lows. I'll accept highs as long as it's reliable.

-Air, wall, or ground throw. Or a couple of those.

-I'd like to see df+1,4 jail and add K! as well

-Some sort of follow up to b+3+4 would be cool

-Another back turned option wouldn't hurt(that isn't low)

Anyone else? Mind you while I've thought these over, I haven't like given them the full-blown super theorycraft technical treatment so I may have missed an aspect of one of these that might make him too OP(or since I don't play TR-no time to deal with that moronic unlock system of 'maybe' getting Dragunov one year-may have missed a buff in that.)
Signature

I scribbled a Tekken Retrospective.
Originally posted by Kane:
they named it matterhorn because lili's uphill battle in tekken is the highest mountain to climb.
Kiaruda
Dragon Lord
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 807
PSN: Kiaruda
#9 “Quote” Edit Post
Dragunov definitely needs his old 1+2 back. I initially thought that move is a big piece of shit that is only good for hitting Xiaoyu out of AOP but I've since found out that it's a very good move because people never duck it. Of course, whether the move is definitely gone or not is yet to be confirmed but he has a new 1+2 and except for u, uf and ub, his 1+2 commands are full.

Furthermore, I was kinda balancing between having and not having his stomp a little worse on block but Dragunov doesn't really have anything super cheap so the stomp should stay -11.

I'm also wondering that because his f+1+2 gives the Kirimomi stun (or does it anymore?), will it take away the opportunity to do another K! move? So could you do f+1+2, 4,4 K!?

EDIT: I forgot to mention that d+2 needs to be a little + on block. Give it +1 or +2 at the very least. It's such a great move but I hate trading WS+4s with the opponent after hitting d+2.

Last edited by Kiaruda on Oct 25th, 2014 at 16:22

Azaael
March of Tyranny
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 3652
From: Finland
#10 “Quote” Edit Post
Agree on the stomp-I always figured it was -11 since he lacks a lot of the basic gimmicks, so maybe in return they let him have something just a touch better than the rest of the cast and they picked his ground hit. Between that and the OS I don't think even then it matches the usefulness of stuff like a Magic 4 and a hopkick but it's something that's 'his' in any case.

Hmm-two K! moves in a row. Have we seen this in any of the matches with any character? I wonder what that would exactly *do*.

I'd say yeah, its too ea4rly to tell with 1+2. They could somehow move that to something else, or alternately make one of his existing mids basically do what that did, OR maybe give him a new move that does what that did. Quite a few options.

I would not argue with d+2 getting a +1 or something.
Signature

I scribbled a Tekken Retrospective.
Originally posted by Kane:
they named it matterhorn because lili's uphill battle in tekken is the highest mountain to climb.
Kiaruda
Dragon Lord
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 807
PSN: Kiaruda
#11 “Quote” Edit Post
I always thought Dragunov doesn't really need a hopkick. Sure, it would be a nice addition but it's not something he really needs considering his offense is good regardless of that. His uf+4 gives a mini-combo and a full combo if the wall is to Dragunov's right and it also low crushes - so it's not bad.

The thing with f+1+2 is that we don't know if it counts as an official K! move even though it gives a similar stun. There's still the chance that it's just a launcher that gives a similar knockdown but is not officially a K! move, meaning that we can follow up with 4,4 or whatever.

I don't think his old 1+2 will return. It would not make sense to have it be u+1+2, uf+1+2 or ub+1+2 and there has to be a 1+2 input since he hits it with both hands. If they give him another mid that does the same, I wouldn't complain. It's a nice tool to have, though it's especially useful against only a few characters.
Azaael
March of Tyranny
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 3652
From: Finland
#12 “Quote” Edit Post
Oh, I agree he doesn't need a hopkick. I kinda LIKE the fact he doesn't have one in a way. I was just more making a comparison on how he has something like no one else does(-11 stomp with an OS), but DOESN'T have something that like most of the cast has(hopkick.) I know he used to have a Magic 4 at one point but they decided to nix it after DR.

Trying to think of all of his motion+commands now, I am pretty sure they could just adjust one of his current moves into it. He has a few solid mids hanging around they could adjust.
Signature

I scribbled a Tekken Retrospective.
Originally posted by Kane:
they named it matterhorn because lili's uphill battle in tekken is the highest mountain to climb.
Kiaruda
Dragon Lord
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 807
PSN: Kiaruda
#13 “Quote” Edit Post
He definitely needs some gimmicky bullshit to piss people off with. There's absolutely nothing he can do that makes people go, "wtf was that?!"
Azaael
March of Tyranny
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 3652
From: Finland
#14 “Quote” Edit Post
If I were given the job of giving Dragunov something 'kinda gimmicky that makes people go WTF'-in that exact phrasing, I'd probably play to his strengths of being a freight train when he hits you. Give him a move that does some sorta WTF damage-it would have to be launch punishable, probably a little slow, but just useful enough it's good for punishing certain mistakes or just for reminding someone 'you know, attempting that unsafe YOLO bullshit is a bad, bad idea around Drag.'

(Though that 120+ damage combo he hit Lili with in that one video-that didn't even look terribly hard to do-looked plenty 'do not mess up or else'.)

Also-I might sound lazy here, but I admit, if the B! disappears from his WR2 and the CH combo doesn't work anymore(and he gets a good K! carry combo instead to replace it with, and with wallgames getting cut down it may be that sort of thing isn't as crucial, I suspect a lot of characters with combos of that nature may see them toned down)-I wonder if I'm the only person whose not going to miss having to go into that finicky CH WR2-iWS4 combo. it's not like, the hardest combo ever or anything by far but I fully admit I'd rather do something less finicky. ('Finicky' is my name for combos that aren't really hard to do, and I do 'em, but if they're a little off axis or something else minor happens it's easy to drop.) I mean Nina's with the billion iWS1's in it is infinitely more annoying to do, for example, but I still wouldn't miss not having to do this one.

EDIT: Was also giving some thought to an air throw-some sorta iSW type deal with a fitting appearance for Drag that he could use to end a combo with. (His uf 3+4 looks good on the ground but might be a bit too 'WWF' for a Spetsnaz commando. Or...okay I'm seeing that picture of the guy flipping upside down throwing the axe and maybe not...)
Signature

I scribbled a Tekken Retrospective.
Originally posted by Kane:
they named it matterhorn because lili's uphill battle in tekken is the highest mountain to climb.
Kiaruda
Dragon Lord
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 807
PSN: Kiaruda
#15 “Quote” Edit Post
I think they need to look into Drag's wall damage because it's not all that great. After B!, he gets b+2, WS+1+2 for damage or b+4,2 into stomp for oki but that's about it. However, the good thing here is that if the stomp gets blocked, it's only -11 but I feel like those options are way too limited. And now with bound gone, it's gonna be extremely frustrating to try and get the most out of his wall damage.
Azaael
March of Tyranny
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 3652
From: Finland
#16 “Quote” Edit Post
I've been a bit busy getting settled in for the next 6 or so weeks to the US here and getting over jetlag-but was there any actual good Dragunov happening at the loc test? I've only got a chance to watch a few of the vids so far and haven't really seen any. Not sure if Nobi was there or not. Was kinda hoping that there was at least something showing a few new odds and ends from him. Don't know almost anything about what other moves besides 4,4 are getting K! for example. I know there weren't many gameplay changes between then according to Harada(it's a similar build, wasn't it), but more or less hoping someone experimented a bit more with him.
Signature

I scribbled a Tekken Retrospective.
Originally posted by Kane:
they named it matterhorn because lili's uphill battle in tekken is the highest mountain to climb.
Ring4200
Tekken Lord Black
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 937
From: France
XBL: RyuxXxLars4200
#17 “Quote” Edit Post
I Remember when i play with him in Tekken 6 In Scenario campaign.
Signature DEVIL KAZUYA: The hero of the [Iron Fist] that never end.
JUN: What a incredible [speech], you say darling.
JIN: You're the best [dad].
LARS: It's nice a word Brother, and here we go for the next [Battle].
📶📘La petite Abeille au Poing de Fer, qui traverse la lumière🐝💧.
sandilord
Destructive Impulse
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2093
From: Netherlands
PSN: Sandilord
#18 “Quote” Edit Post
I feel like Namco doesn't go all the way with Drags sambo potential.
When TTT2 was being built I was hoping for an auto throw on BT takedown. Something really brutal since you don't get that very often.
Now with his rage art they're dropping the ball once again. Throwing together a bunch of his existing moves with the center of stupidity in his b1+2 bouncing the opponent way up. Wtf? Is it so hard to come up with a rage art that does sambo justice? Something like a multipart (automatic) throw where he breaks a number of bones in his opponents body?
Signature s3:
Azaael
March of Tyranny
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 3652
From: Finland
#19 “Quote” Edit Post
I admit, it's not a genuine Sambo move, but I've always wanted to see Drag with a variant of Goh's one wall throw from VF4. I always thought that would look utterly brutal from a guy whose Drag's size. It wouldn't be as agile as Goh's(he just jumps right up on them while they're standing before feeding them shoe, they'd probably be more low to the ground for Drag's since he's a real big guy) but just something like that by the wall would just look sick from Drag and fit a ruthless guy.

I'm hoping for a new multipart throw for him, or maybe a ground throw and/or air throw(the latter could be an iSW combo ender choice perhaps.) He is Combat Sambo which does use a mix of strikes and grapples rather than Sport Sambo's judo like style, and he has a solid, near no risk grapple game as it is with some sick looking grapples, but I do think they occasionally miss a chance to give him a couple more. He's probably still the best, IMO, representative of combat sambo in a fighting game that I've seen-most games just don't bother with it and the ones that do just don't quite look as great.

See I admit I think even though i think they got lazy with a lot of the rage arts, I do think the angles at least look good from it(especially the f,f+3 kick at the end with the slow mo, looks like he's just wrecking their face.) Still though I'd have liked to have them have more original RAs for everyone.
Signature

I scribbled a Tekken Retrospective.
Originally posted by Kane:
they named it matterhorn because lili's uphill battle in tekken is the highest mountain to climb.
Kiaruda
Dragon Lord
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 807
PSN: Kiaruda
#20 “Quote” Edit Post
I feel like if Namco had made the RAs a combination of never-before-seen moves, people would be complaining about not being able to do those moves separately in battle, i.e. you can only see those moves in the Rage Art.

I think Dragunov's RA is one of the coolest-looking RAs in the game to date, though I have to agree that the b+1+2 bounce looks really stupid even if it's done by a strong 6'3" Sambo practitioner.

I'm also hoping Dragunov gets more grapples in T7. Like, in DOA, Bayman (also uses Combat Sambo) has a shitload of grapples where he just breaks his opponent's limbs and they look very brutal. I don't think Drag should be getting an automatic multi-throw because that would be super cheap and it would cause people to start a shitstorm. But I'm definitely hoping for more throws, maybe they should even give him another parry like his b+1+3_2+4 but obviously with a different animation.

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