Capo wish list - thoughts? discussions?

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CaCarmen
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Joined: May 2010
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#1 “Quote” Edit Post
So Tekken Tag 2 has been out for over two years now (and I'm 'celebrating' my second anniversery playing the game). That's not a lot of time, but given how its a continuation of the BR system we already have a pretty good idea of how Capos perform in this game. So I thought it would be a nice idea to have a 'wishlist' of sorts. Obviously Namco is not going to check TZ for advice but, you know, Chreddy forums have been kind of low on activity so maybe this sort of thread will get people talking again about the character. Anyway here's some of the stuff I would like to see:

First of all, the big one that we wished about in the run up to TT2, seeing Christie and Eddy made into two different characters with slightly different movelists. Give Eddy HSP walk and make his RLX like TT1 style, something to spice it up. Either that or get rid of one character and combine all the good points into a single character. Kinda don't know how Namco will take this.

Buffs:
Make df+1~f +4 on hit, that way our HSP 2 or HSP d+3 will trade or beat mid attacks, making our guessing game a little stronger. Can still be beaten by jabs so I don't think it would be too overpowered. Keep the frames the same (-6) on block.

Allow RLX 4~3 to give the same trip it did in BR. We had so many cool combo options back in the day, with HSP 2, HSP f+1 and RLX 2 (and a few others I'm sure). I'm sure the current HSP f+3+4 could even be a consistant combo option if it knocked down the way it used too.

Bring back bound on db+1+2 and f,f+3+4 (assuming the next game keeps bounds). I mean, why not? Also a little more advantage on a blocked f,f+3+4 would be nice.

Remove the new HSP 1 and bring back the old HSP 1 (with options to go into weed whacker extensions). The new HSP bound is really a big let down. It is admittingly cool wall carrying an opponent with df+1,1 df+1~f W! HSP 1! I guess but it does like, very average damage and the animation is all sorts of silly. Old HSP 1 on the other hand, could be very cool if they tweaked it a bit. Make it a little less plus on hit than HSP 2, but let it put Chreddy in standing position (unlike HSP 2 which recovers crouching) and we could have two really good, similar looking mid pokes from HSP for super confusion and great mixup on hit or block. I guess HSP 1,3,4 NC in BR (can someone confirm that?) was a little silly so I wouldn't mind if they got rid of that.

Bring back the old CH stun on FC db+4 from BR. I wouldn't mind if they made it a breakable stun, but only if they change the break system so you can only break with forward (the fact that you can break with back means stun moves get broken by chance FAR too often).

Either let the extension of ff+2,3 trip on natural hit or give the same frame advantage as a CH df+4. It was a silly string ever since its introduction but the fact that it led to a juggle in BR means you could throw it out and gave some value to ff+2 as a poke. Now it's like mad worthless.

Increase the damage on f+4 so it sparks. This is a personal preference, but I seriously think this is one of Capo's coolest looking moves and the second best looking bound (after uf+3), but the fact that it does such little damage means there's never a reason to use it (it's not like a point or two less than uf+1+2 or f+3, it's less by a big deal, probably even less than 1+2+5 I bet). I mean, a kick like that should knock someone flat cold. It's not like this move is quick enough to hit people randomly.

Pushback on a successful df+2 reduced to the way it was in BR. No more qcf+3 oki hit whiffing randomly.

Make d+3~4 unparryable again. Once again, why not? The move is still slow enough to be random hopkicked and that's the big deterrent to doing lows in Tekken, not random low parries. Unparryable lows are great because they allow you to mess with opponents who are used to buffering low parries as a habit.

Give f+3+4 a little better tracking on tech rolls. This is a super old school thing I picked up from T5 vids of Noodalls, but in that game f+3+4 could be used as a tech catch after a f+2,1,4 or RLX f+3+4... if the opponent teched to one specific direction. Now tech rolls are safe, but f+3+4 still makes contact with the opponent (and launches them if they duck or do a move) if they tech roll in one direction. However it whiffs if they tech to the opposite side. Now, assuming we keep tech rolls safe, I think it would be cool to let this move track both sides on tech roll, that way if we guess our opponent is going to tech roll (and at the end of the day, it's going to be a guess) we get a good mixup between a safe (but still very minus) launcher and a low_throw. Its limited range means the places where you can use it to apply pressure are very limited, anyway.

Nerfs:
b+1,4 returns to TT2 (vanilla) properties. It's going to happen and honestly, I wouldn't mind it, as the move was never intended to be a CH string when it first came out. In the arcade we used it as a way to get into HSP safely (i14 and +1 into HSP, it was already better than f+3_f+4_3+4,3_df+1~f on block). I am actually in the bandwagon of people who believes this move is a little stupid as an NCC since online Capos (and Tokido) basically just do it like, every, five seconds. I'd like to see Capo players awarded for move diversity.

Reduce the damage b+1 does. Kind of lame how doing a b+1 after a launcher does the same damage as doing a qcf+3 does, given how easy it is and how it works after launchers where qcf+3 would not hit. Reduce it by enough that it does 1 point less in juggles, not a big loss.

Unreasonable? buffs:
Bring back the old d+4 (the current FC4) This move is i13? That's crazy for how much range and tracking power (it seriously feels like a homing move) it has. i13 means that after a succesful df+1 on hit we can do this and stuff hopkick attempts before they even start up. This might be a little strong given Namco's design philosophy of weakening lows in each successive game but it would be super cool. Yes I realize the move can be done from FC and its still good, but being able to do it from standing means you can incorporate into flowcharts and in general, use it quite a bit more than you would otherwise.

Was Rewinder step really broken or something? I'm still not sure why they got rid of it. Since 1+2 is now a move maybe we can just map it to b+1+2 (which is a pointless thing to keep, was it faster than standing 1 in the old games or something?)

Make 1+2 a consistant punish. Is this too much? I think the idea is to keep Capo's standing punishment weak and force us to either do jab cross, f+2,1 or standing 4 for little damage and poor pressure options or just a standing jab for great pressure options and no damage... But I guess 34 or whatever damage this gives would be a bit too much.

Misc.

Doesn't it looks like d+4,3 could feint or transition into HSP??

That's really all I can think of. Outside of these things I'm actually quite happy with Capos, I love HSP 2 and the HSP transitions into RLX, and the stuff we can do in RLX. Thier standing game (including punishing and the way thier standing moves leave them on hit and on guard) is a little weak but the character isn't built around playing a standing game anyway. I'm curious what other people look forward to in the next Tekken (assuming they keep our character).

Last edited by CaCarmen on Nov 27th, 2013 at 06:06

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LuizWsp
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#2 “Quote” Edit Post
First of all, what I would really really expect from the next Tekken is:

1- Donít lose any of the roster (even if itís somebody I donít play, I love all characters and I have a lot of trouble saying goodbye to any of them, and especially if itís somebody I play, like Ogre Ė but heís probably gonna go :cry.
2- Probably gonna happen too, but I love tag much more than singles. Single is too boring compared to Tag. Particularly with this TTT2, having two characters change the game so much, the strategy, the rage management, knowing when to tag out, when to tag crash, when to tag assault, not to mention the combo possibilities are close to infinite, especially with capos, cause they can tag mid-combo after b3,3. Take tag out of the game, and you have a boring 1 vs 1, with combos that are always the same, no strategies, and much less characters being used.


I already fear what will be of the characters I love, the combos I took hours to learn, the strategies that optimize rage management, the strategies that have launchers as the primary goal...

Really, theres no best thing than punishing something with df3+4~5, and make a juggle with 4 or 5 tags in the same combo, taking all that red life.
LuizWsp
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#3 “Quote” Edit Post
- It could be nice to have Eddy and Christie different. I approve of that. But I donít see myself using HSP walk.

- I like that too: ďPushback on a successful df+2 reduced to the way it was in BR. No more qcf+3 oki hit whiffing randomly.Ē I always whiff that, I donít even try the qcf3 anymore.

- I totally agree on the nerf on b1,4. Maybe take out the fact that itís NCC, or the fact that itís confirmable on the first hit, or even make it easier to punish on block, but donít take the move entirely out. But the main fact of this move, while I love when I use it, is people see me using capos they already think: heís a noob that will spam b1,4. At the same time, I fight to many noobs that think they can play capos, just because they hit me with one or 2 of this string.


My thoughts:

Buffs:

Either give me a proper ss and sw or give me a ďb2Ē that evades to the left aswell.

Eddyís grabs are terrible. Give him something better.

A 13 or 14 standing good punisher. Using df2 or b1 is not good enough. The 13 frame punisher by capos is not even close to be something that makes hopkickers afraid. Maybe more frame advantage on the 1,2 would be good too.

Combos: I have no idea how combos will work on next Tekken, but as it is today, bounding at the wall is harder with capos than any other character I play or remember right of the bat. On a tag game, itís not so much of a problem, since we can tag out from ws13, b33 in the middle of the combo and so on, but using capos solo without a good bound at the wall would be a nightmare. Not to mention the dmg is not the best of the roster (when used alone).

Big characters: donít make bear so uncombable like they are now. Ws13 simply doesnít work (without tag), rlx 4~3 doesnít work either, the lows are hard to hit, so itís kinda biased.

d4,3 should be -13 on block, or 0 on hit at least. To have it only NCC, launch punishble and still very negative on block makes it only useful on the end of the round, or just the first d4. Oh well, then again, we have so many other low option...
numotd
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 103
#4 “Quote” Edit Post
Well what you guys posted are pretty reasonable. I like the d+4,3 feint idea

Of the top of my head...my main wish list is to make them more accurate to capoeira? maybe remove a permanent Rlx stance to a temp one like Leo's d+1+2? maybe it could look more like the beginning of db+3+4?

Make 4~3 a homing move? and make it safer..Seriously...a capoeira signature move that is completely useless in the game...

db+4,4~3 - basically db+4 into 4~3

Hsp d+3 change to TTT2U Tiger's ws2,3 that bounds? so you can do Rlx 4~3 Hsp d+3B! something in that sense since we want Hsp 1 back.

uf+4 animation change to SF Elena's Rhino Horn? since it's not a homing move anyway...making it homing MIGHT be too good...but then again...Yoshi's uf+4 is homing and B!...

a 12 frame knd punisher f+2,3 high mid...slap to ariel cartwheel backwards (similar to Elena's Scratch Wheel) make it -20 for all i care...

I've been redesigning Capo's move list for a while now...want to make something that's more accurate to actual Capoeira...less Rlx and Handstand should play a bigger part. Also 1+2 rewinder = Esquiva Stance (eg. 1,2~u or d put them in Esquiva Stance. Similar to Jun's 1,2~u or d) Esquiva Stance can also be used in combos (eg. df+3,1+2 Esquiva 2,4...so df+3 into ss 2,4) Relax stance should also be called Negativa.

Eg on Combo:

CH df+2 b+3,3 Neg 2,3+4B! df+3~1+2 2,4
so basically same start but Neg 2,3+4 = Rlx 2 into Elena's Mallet Smash bound.

So Capo's combo looks flashier

Last edited by numotd on Nov 27th, 2013 at 22:55

LuizWsp
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#5 “Quote” Edit Post
The moves that are very accurate to capoeira that I remember of are:

db4,4,4...
db3,4
DB3,4,4
db3+4,4,3
f4
ff3+4
ff3
4
b4,4,3+4
ss4
ss3+4
3+4
uf3
b3+4
HSP d3+4 (yeah really)
HSP 3+4 (I swear I saw this move beeing used irl)
ws3
ws4

d4,3; 3~4 and rlx 4~3 are more breakdance moves, but they look nice anyways
they don't usually use punches, but 1+2 fits in pretty well

Capoeira moves are usually whiffs, cause they dont use them normally in a fight. Overall, I think they look pretty legit capoeira fighters, except for the punches, but we gotta have those.
CaCarmen
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#6 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by LuizWsp Capoeira moves are usually whiffs, cause they dont use them normally in a fight. Overall, I think they look pretty legit capoeira fighters, except for the punches, but we gotta have those.


b+1+2 But seriously maybe a buff on 1+2 would be cool, I like how that move looks as well. Never actually see it used outside of CH 1+2~3.

I think they were originally going for a style that emphasized more HSP in T3_TT1, when RLX only lasted temporarily before going to full lie down. Even though we are now used to the modern Tekken capo style from T4 onwards, it would be cool to have one character that has the old T3_TT1 style... that would be a lot of fun.

I do hope they retain the tag feature as well, but I would like to see tag crash removed or at least weakened. Tag crash makes oki in this game a lot less important than other Tekkens and that is a shame as Capos are heavy oki characters. We may not get a lot of wall damage or combo damage in general, but we can rack up points with great setups for opponent's getting up who take ground damage, resets or relaunches if our reads are on point.

The wall combo thing is annoying. What I've found is if the opponent is going to W! after RLX2, we should either do RLX4,3+4~3 (so they W! after RLX4)... or if we do RLX2 we can only do RLX2,3 or just RLX2 and pressure wakeup (or the super old setup of RLX2,[4] into slippery kicks). If they wall before RLX2 and after b+3,3 we should do RLX3+4~3 to bound them. But this stuff screws up often due to the slow speed of the 3+4~3 transition...

4~3 (satellite moon!) seems good after ws+4 on hit. At that advantage it trades with jabs, but opponents won't jab to be honest, and beats anything if the opponent comes in. If they don't then you get a nice retreat back. 4~3 also seems to hit people who ssl and has some weird jab crush property that I don't fully understand. 4~3,4 is actually -2 on block which is also really good (on paper)... if I could ever figure out how to use it.

On the list of buffs I wish f+3 high crushed all the way to when it makes contact. It actually has an early high crush but unlike db+4 it can be hit by highs late in the animation (just before it makes contact). If it high crushed all the way it could be a very good option at +6 (after df+1 on hit) since you would beat mids and crush highs.

Another thing I really, REALLY want is for HSP u_d to either 1) recover in standing or 2) recover faster. I get so many good reads with the HSP sidestep but if the opponent is mashing all I can do is block since my recovery is super slow. At least in standing I could attempt to use b+2 or db+1+2. Though I guess I could just do the continued sidestep back into HSP...
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LuizWsp
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#7 “Quote” Edit Post
Did anybody play Christie on Tk Revolution? Is she very different or just the same?

Is b1,4,3+4 still confirmable? Are her combos any good?

I never played that game, but I assume her future would be closer to her Revolution version than to her TTT2 version. I heard ws2 launches on normal hit now.
CaCarmen
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#8 “Quote” Edit Post
I never played the game either, but I asked about this in the TR forums. Apparently, there were no changes except that ws+2 gives a full launch (which is pointless since it combos into qcf+3 anyway) and there is a new move that looks like db+4 except with the other leg (knowing Namco they probably just used the exact same animation ala b+1 being a visual copy of ss+2). df+3+4 pushes back on block. Nothing else changed, no old moves or properties return, kind of lame. The combos are pretty much T5 juggles.
Signature "老外的LEI很烦人了"
"还是换人吧"
"你心中怨念深重,怒火冲天门。导致你铁拳技能急速下降"
"我早就说过,你换几个普通角色你就发现你也很弱。。 "
"卡波拉门"
-Da Stunna-
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#9 “Quote” Edit Post
Remove:

f+3 (fucking garbage move in general)
d/f+3
f+2,1,4
1+2
b+1+2
b+3~f
ss+4,3~b
ss+4~3~b
d/b+3~b
ff+3~b
ss+3~b
ff+2,3
u+3+4~d
d/b+3,4~3 (the variation that ends in d+3~3 that nobody uses)
RLX 1,3 (the "3" portion)
ss+3+4,3+4,3+4,3+4 (keep the initial wheel kicks, but everything after that needs to GTFO)

Add:

f+2,1 - i12 punisher. high mid/NC/36 dmg on hit/38 dmg on CH/-14 on block
f+3 - i15 mid homing move. mid/21 dmg on hit/23 dmg on CH/-7 on block
ff+1+2 - advancing double elbow/backhand strike. 26 dmg on hit/28 dmg on CH/-9 on block
d/f+3,2 - mid knee into the old T5 ss+2 cruncher
HSP walk...probably useless now but at least you can advance/retreat whilst in HSP

Tweak:

- ss+4 is a natural combo
- d+2,3 is delayable
- 3,4 second hit can be canceled (or simply more standing feints in general)
- ss+3+4~d deals slightly more dmg
- HSP tilt recovery becomes much, much faster
- d/b+2 is now a standalone low poke. +0 on hit/+1 on CH/-11 on block. No longer recovers crouching. 2nd hit of the old string is now the second hit of u/f+3,3
- ff+3+4 is +2 on block so there's some type of incentive to use it

Misc:

- Either a proper sidestep like everyone else, or Rewinder comes back
- RLX can be entered if you're FUFT
CaCarmen
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#10 “Quote” Edit Post
f+3 is ok. It would be better if it high crushed the whole way instead of only near the beginning but its totally usable at +8.

ss+4 being NC would be lol so unfair. I'm afraid of Namco did that they would tone down the plus frames to like +3, at most. I actually like the way it is. Even if the second hit gets blocked your safe at good frames (I think jab can't be interrupted) and since the opponent is in FC, you can setup a backdash or even a deep sidestep into ss3+4_ss+4 to punish moves they throw out.

RLX1,3 is NC for like 30+ damage, why get rid of the second hit? I remember reading about how T4 players would use the first hit as a spacing tool (back when there was no second hit) but TT2 is really less about spacing and more about being aggressive with launchers...

100% agree with you about HSP tilt being much, much faster. It should at least be fast enough that a ws+4 is always uninterruptable. Either that, or it should not recover in FC, so I have access to b+2 and stuff if people want to press buttons on me.

I would like to see Rewinder back.
Signature "老外的LEI很烦人了"
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"你心中怨念深重,怒火冲天门。导致你铁拳技能急速下降"
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-Da Stunna-
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#11 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by CaCarmen
f+3 is ok. It would be better if it high crushed the whole way instead of only near the beginning but its totally usable at +8.

f+3 is like the low budget version of f+4~b. f+4~b is a better entry into HSP as a whole and functions as a more useful b! move. The risk/reward is waaaay too bad to ever really warrant using f+3 IMO.

Plus the animation for that move looks oh so shitty to me.

RLX1,3 is NC for like 30+ damage, why get rid of the second hit? I remember reading about how T4 players would use the first hit as a spacing tool (back when there was no second hit) but TT2 is really less about spacing and more about being aggressive with launchers...

Aggressive with launchers you say? Which low do most Capo heads go to when they get the opportunity lol?

But I dunno man. I guess it's that I hoping they trim the fat out of character's movesets next game, and I wouldn't miss RLX 1,3 all that much.
100% agree with you about HSP tilt being much, much faster. It should at least be fast enough that a ws+4 is always uninterruptable. Either that, or it should not recover in FC, so I have access to b+2 and stuff if people want to press buttons on me.

Yeah recovering in normal standing position was something I forgot to mention.
LuizWsp
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#12 “Quote” Edit Post
Man I use rlx 1,3 all day long. It has better range then rlx 4~3 and it's much safer and harder to block, since you have to block the low and get up to block the mid.

Also, it's pretty good at the wall, cause you hold down and go back to rlx in the same position and and continue your pressure to either another low, rlx f3+4 or rlx1,2 and confirm it for a w!
QDogg
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#13 “Quote” Edit Post
Interesting responses I've seen here so far. Thought I'd chime in here too. My perspective is a bit different now - I play more TR now compared to TTT2. I think you should all at least try TR Christie. It puts perspective on the list of things you want. The real question is which engine will Namco choose to use in the future (TTT2 bound vs TR no bound) - that will determine which moves will be tweaked in the future. I have a feeling that they're going to go with the TR engine since it'll be easier for SF players to pickup. I see how in some aspects, people want to "fix the character" as a whole, and I'm down for that too.

In terms of things I'd like to see, I'd prefer to see the following:

-HSP b+3~3 (Similar to d+3~3) - Capos do not have a really damaging ground hitting attack from HSP position besides HSP tilt 3_4. The tilt attacks are quite slow. This would force people to stand up after a RLX 2,4 ender, allowing you to force more HSP mixups and round out their HSP game.

-It would be nice if the HSP tilt sidestep recovered quicker. Also tweak the recovery time on HSP d,3+4 (delayed HSP d+3+4) so it allows you to do HSP throw quicker. The window for the delay on HSP d+3+4 is too long.

-I also agree with changing f+2,1,3 string. uf+3+4 does the same thing with more damage on the wall and f+2,1,3 is not a good CH string. The only way I would use this string the way it is is if they made it completely safe. f+2,1 itself could be use for something more useful. I like Stunna's idea.

-FUFT 3+4 - RLX position - yeah, been wanting this for awhile too. They did it with HSP, why not RLX?

-b+1,4~3+4 CH - I think this should stay the same. They have no real standing BS CH string for people to worry about. df+2 is okay, but as something to fear, they need something to prevent peeps from pressing buttons.

-make b+1+2 another move like another type of mid headbutt. The current b+1+2 has no use.

-f+3 is terrible. Standing 3 could be f+3,4 instead. Change standing 3 into something else.

I have professed and lobbied for years to bring back Rewinder sidestep, but I don't see it happening. Years ago, Jason Arney told me they thought it was broken, which is why it was removed. The best we can hope for are more evasive moves to replace the absence of a sidewalk. I'm over it not being in the game.

There's also the question of if Eddy will be back. I would like for him to be available but honestly, a palette swap would suffice. Either give me a palette swap or make these two distinctly unique capoeira characters - Eddy has more HSP stuff (including HSP walk) but limited RLX options (no infinite RLX) and make Christie have limited HSP stuff (no HSP walk) but more RLX options (infinite RLX). Tweak some of their other moves, or even make Eddy's movelist similar to Tiger. Very interested to see how they'll be working with palette characters in general.

Everything else with the character for the most part is fine. RLX 1,3 is good, don't mess with it. It's a conservative low option that gives solid damage. RLX 4~3 from further away doesn't connect for a juggle, but RLX 1,3 will give you damage. It has it's purpose.

Whatever they do, keep WR+3 the same! For me, it somehow seems easier to execute in TR. For me, I think this move is her best low by far!
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CaCarmen
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#14 “Quote” Edit Post
Hey Qdogg I've seen some of your old TT1 matches on Youtube now and then. Its really interesting to hear from people who started in TT1_T4 days, as the game has changed a ton since that time.

Anyway I totally agree about having a good ground hitting move in HSP. We do have HSP d+4_b+3 but on hit (unless the opponent attempts to stand up) both moves push back so our oki ends there (well, we can always do RLX f+3+4 to hit them if they backroll, maybe?)

However, about HSP d+3+4, I think Namco's idea is to make it so d+3+4 has at least 'some' risk. If you do a HSP throw right after, anything i13 or slower is already taken as a standing, non CH hit. Since most people who see HSP tend to go for df+1, and the amount of people who punish HSP with a jab (which is how you're supposed to punish HSP d+3+4) are like, not very many people, it's already pretty decent, considering how good the move is. If the throw came out any faster, well, then the move would be even 'safer', since we could only be punished by a jab cross and not floated. Though I guess we could get random hopkicked if we get too greedy or the opponent wises up.

You know, one thing I noticed while debating with those guys in the Anti-Chreddy thread is how the HSP throw input doesn't work after RLX 4~3, instead, no matter how late you press HSP 3+4, it turns into the second hit of the RLX string. Not that its a 'big' thing, but if a Lee player jumps from a RLX mixup, and tries to whiff punish RLX 4~3 with a f+4,3, we could use HSP 3+4 to put ourselves in standing and block the second hit. Or something

@Luiz, I don't know if I consider RLX 1,3 safer than RLX 4~3. On block, yes, it's better since it almost goes unpunished (though the most that anyone can do to RLX 4~3 is just a small low parry combo, which for some characters doesn't even break the 30 damage barrier). But on startup you can get random hopkicked and launched with RLX 1, while RLX 4~3 only gets you floated at most (and usually mid crushes hopkicks, at least with Christie). Plus RLX 4~3 puts you airborne so fast (in like three frames or something?) that the opponent has to be quite lucky to full launch you with anything during startup (though it has happened to me in the past.....). Also, for Christie, RLX 1 doesn't have very much range I feel. That said I like both moves, and you're right, RLX 1,3 into RLX or HSP works wonders at the wall. However the way I play Christie is mixing RLX 4~3 with the RLX mid pokes, since the mid pokes are very, very good (and the low launcher goes without saying is super good).

All this talk of f+3, you know, I agree that the animation of the move looks bad. But it has potential at i18, making it the only uninterruptable HSP transition at +8 (well, not counting df+1~f or df+3, which sways back...). It is - on hit but HSP evasion options still work and its only -1 or -2 (so its similar to ss+4~b on block) However, I couldn't find as much use for it as I would like, since the move doesn't high crush throughout the whole animation, only early in the animation. If the whole thing high crushed, we could do things like df+1 (hit) f+3, the opponent's jabs would whiff and mids would get beaten out. Plus at moderate frame advantage is seems to track one direction pretty well and is hard to backstep. So Namco should tweak the move a little bit to make it a bit more useful... at least it leads for some interesting combo options in its current form (f+3! (1~2 hit TA) RLX f+3+4...)
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ENHEAS
Virtuoso
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 221
From: Italy
PSN: ENHEAS_TK
XBL: no x box
#15 “Quote” Edit Post
Qdogg nice to read something from you buddy.
I'm not a ttt1 player, I started with DR.. could you explain how would rewinder be considered broken please?

..

I agree with most of what you said but i completely disagree on chb1,4,3+4 and rlx1,3.

The CH at high level doesn't land quite often, in my experience it lands so rarely i almost don't use it anymore.
I don't see the point of nerving\removing it. The roster is so full of S.H.I.T, most of it safe\in natural hit, that i honestly i don't see chb14 that broken. It's not broken at all imho. It's only usable for its main purpose, and i don't think it's a real hit confirm in ch. For the rest, you can limit it in so many ways it becomes almost useless. But this move scares opponents a bit, so they think twice before try something on frame disadvantage or to vomit the entire command list in your face.
And I honestly don't give a damn of online gaming. You're all serious players, so i wonder how the hell online gaming came in your mind. : )
.
rlx1,3 is so useful to me and put such a pressure on opponents i'd never give it up..

My list:

TEKKEN:

- 2 frames lag AWAY, put the game on consoles as it was before ttt2
- block stun as it was before ttt2, better like DR times
- NO safe moves on whiff. I mean, make them all punishable so anyone not only ninjas with sharingan and on cocaine can punish them.
- Stricter policy on collisions and on crash moves. Some are REALLY random\broken WTF
- more balanced and risk\reward-wise roster frame list (for example moves that wallsplat on natural hit and take 100+ damage shouldnt be safe, especially in characters who are already very strong)
- revised oki (some characters have multiple and following choices. I do something, you avoid it correctly because you side rolled? fine, i'm still in advantage and i can get you floated anyway with another move, so you can't get up even if you chose right, and you're forced to suck. Well, that's not fair)

EDDY

- d3~4 unparryable again
- d\b+1+2 B! again
- f,f+3+4 B! again
- hsp tilt faster
- d\f+1~f +4 on hit or df1,1 jail, and 29 dmg again
- d\f 3+4 15 frames
- d\f+2 as in T6 + active frames back
- uf+3,d as in T6
- rlx4~3 if it hits, it hits bloody hell. Not that I set up a trap, they fall into it, I land rlx4-3 and it whiffs the second hit for no reason so i get floated.
- juggle system revised (it's really out of this world that Eddy's juggles whiff so much ex chb33, rlx24)
- hsp b3 longer range
- 3 faster
- f+3+4 techroll catcher
- 1+2 constant punish
- b1+2 9 frames as it was or new move.
- 1,3:4 BACK AGAIN!!! LOL
- d4,3 0\-1 on hit
- 3~4 even easier to punish
- rlx step a little faster but always very vulnerable.
- headawayfeetforward hsp a little faster

Last edited by ENHEAS on Dec 24th, 2013 at 01:30

QDogg
Manji Foot Soldier
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 4824
From: USA California
PSN: Qunimitsu
#16 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by CaCarmen
Hey Qdogg I've seen some of your old TT1 matches on Youtube now and then. Its really interesting to hear from people who started in TT1_T4 days, as the game has changed a ton since that time.

Anyway I totally agree about having a good ground hitting move in HSP. We do have HSP d+4_b+3 but on hit (unless the opponent attempts to stand up) both moves push back so our oki ends there (well, we can always do RLX f+3+4 to hit them if they backroll, maybe?)

However, about HSP d+3+4, I think Namco's idea is to make it so d+3+4 has at least 'some' risk. If you do a HSP throw right after, anything i13 or slower is already taken as a standing, non CH hit. Since most people who see HSP tend to go for df+1, and the amount of people who punish HSP with a jab (which is how you're supposed to punish HSP d+3+4) are like, not very many people, it's already pretty decent, considering how good the move is. If the throw came out any faster, well, then the move would be even 'safer', since we could only be punished by a jab cross and not floated. Though I guess we could get random hopkicked if we get too greedy or the opponent wises up.


Let me clarify, because I don't think my notation was correct in my previous post.
-HSP d+3+4 - Perch attack
-HSP d,n,3+4 - delayed HSP Perch attack
-HSP d,n,n+3+4 - HSP Perch into HSP throw

There's a point when you do HSP d,n that you can delay for a long time and hit the 3+4 to get the Perch attack. I would prefer the delay to be shorter, allowing you to do HSP d,n,3+4 as the HSP Perch into HSP throw or even HSP d,n, f+3+4 (HSP foot dive). I don't want to eliminate the delay, just make it shorter. Against HSP, opponents currently can just hold back and walk away. If we had a HSP walk to chase them down, then I wouldn't mind it so much (But then that begs the question of how could one do HSP walk into HSP f+3+4 smoothly? HSP F and then hit 3+4 at any moment? I don't think they'd allow that. A topic for another day if it comes to fruition). HSP d+3+4 by itself is risky, so people will wait for it to block punish it, so you should be able to throw quicker out of it. The thing is, there's only 2 attacks to make people duck vs HSP. Either give them another decent low out of HSP or make HSP throw better somehow. If anything, it's just tightening up HSP really.

ENHEAS - sup dogg! Yeah, in TTT, Rewinder (1+2) was good because you could get out of a lot of strings. Come to think of it, 1+2~2 (Tiger's ss+2 now) was really good too. People would do manual or custom strings and you could Rewinder sidestep out of it. Good example is Bruce b+4,3,4 knees. You could block the first hit, Rewinder the second hit to evade, then do b+4,3 series to get to their back (like b+4,3,3 hitting on the back for CH at times, sick!). Depending on if the string if it jailed or not, you could Rewinder out of certain parts of it. No other character had this.

I don't think 1+2 is to be used as a punisher. It's a CH tool primarily (1+2~3).

I try not too get greedy for ask too much on these wishlist. When new iterations of the game come out, more conservative things are usually implemented.
Signature "Live, love, laugh, enjoy life."
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1960-2006

BILL
Shihan
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 100
From: Taiwan
PSN: roztar
#17 “Quote” Edit Post
so no capo in tk7?
why really, cause people cant learn how to black agaisnt him?
whats the real reason, a huge part of the community respects eddy, hwoarang and steve for their depth, and for the look of the real martial art.
sad consolation price that chloe.......SAD (in trumps voice)
Signature Namco get yr balls back and kill heihachi like you did with jun!

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