Ancient Powers

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yoloswag
Shihan
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 124
From: Finland
PSN: Chief_Sona300
#1 “Quote” Edit Post
This thread is dedicated to Ancient Ogres b+1+2 move called Ancient Powers a.k.a Inner Torment. This video will explain further if you don't understand what I say =)

At first I thought this move was useless. But after discovering it, it has it uses in both offence and in defence.

Eg. Against Alex. He has 50/50 with 1+2, 3 and 1+2, 4. When he has finished 1+2 and continues string, Ogre do Ancient Powers and boom, you just beated his mixup.

Eg. Lee's/Ancient Ogres ws+33 mixup this move is golden. It kills both options.

Eg. Against Dragunov you can outplay his running mixups. When he is at the range of iWr+3, do AP and boom. No +frames for him.

It has it uses in offence also. This is very interesting move, cause you can get free W! by jab or df+1 in certain angle with certain characters. I tested it with full roster and came up with interesting results.

Alex. SSR, df+1, AP. Pretty reliable.
Alisa. SSR, df+1, AP. Pretty reliable.
Angel. SSR, df+1, Ap. hits but not that often.
Armor King. df+1, AP Very reliable. Or SSR, 1, AP. This is quite reliable.
Asuka. SSL, 1/df+1, AP Very reliable. Or SSR, df+1, AP. Unreliable.
Baek. SSR, 1, AP Very reliable.
Bryan. SSR, 1/df+1, AP Reliable.
Dr. B. SSR, 1, AP. Reliable.
Devil Jin SS, 1, AP. Reliable.
Dragunov. df+1, AP. Reliable. Or SS, 1, AP. Reliable.
Feng. df+1, AP. Reliable.
Forest Law. df+1/1, AP. Very reliable. Or SS, df+1/1, AP.
Ganryu. SS, 1, AP. Unreliable.
Heihachi. df+1, AP. Easier on counter hit.
Hwoarang. 1, AP. Reliable.
Jack-6. 1/df+1, AP. Very reliable. Or SS, 1/df+1, AP. Very reliable.
Jin. SS, 1/df+1, AP. Not that reliable.
Jinpachi. SS, 1/df+1, AP. Not that reliable.
Jun. SSR, df+1, AP. Unreliable.
Kazuya. df+1, AP. VERY reliable. Or SSR, 1, AP. Reliable.
Kuma. 1, AP. Reliable. Or SS, df+1, AP. VERY reliable.
Kunimitsu. 1/df+1, AP. Very reliable. Or SS, 1/df+1. Very reliable.
Lars. 1, AP. Very reliable.
Lee. SSL, 1, AP. Reliable.
Lei. SS, 1/df+1, AP. Reliable.
Leo. SS, 1/df+1, AP. VERY reliable.
Lili. df+1, AP. Reliable.
Marduk. AP hits him by itself.
Marshal Law. 1, AP. Very reliable.
Michelle. 1, AP. Unreliable.
Nina. SS, 1/df(???), AP. Not so sure bout this.
Paul. SSR, df+1, AP. Very reliable.
Panda. 1, AP. Reliable. Or SS, 1/df+1, AP. Really reliable.
Raven. SSR, df+1, AP. Really reliable.
Steve. SSR, 1, AP. Very unreliable.
Slim Bob. SSR, 1, AP. Reliable.
True Ogre. SS, 1/df+1, AP. Reliable. Or 1/df+1, AP. Reliable.
Wang. SSR, 1/df+1. Unreliable.
Yoshimitsu. df+1, AP. Reliable. Or SS, 1/df+1. Reliable.

As you can see, the list is pretty long. There might be some mistakes I made while testing cause this move is hard to check. But sadly the range with AP is so sad and it's -23 on block. The risk reward is not on your side cause if you whiff, you are dead. But it will look swag if it connects! =D

Maybe we can gather list of strings that AP can beat? Like eg. string mixups.

Last edited by yoloswag on Nov 7th, 2013 at 10:34

yoloswag
Shihan
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 124
From: Finland
PSN: Chief_Sona300
#2 “Quote” Edit Post
You get AP into between the strings:

Alisa

f321. AP will beat 1. The timig is quite hard. Unreliable.
df112/df14. Ap will beat this mixup. You can't dodge or interrup this string but AP will beat this mixup. So good. df14 is safe so AP makes some strings from safe to unsafe.
b11+2 is not the way you wanna use AP. Just do d3+4.
b43is another example how good AP is. It's safe, mid-mid string but AP makes it unsafe. Once you see b4, smash AP.
b3+43+4 is not the way you wanna use AP.
fF344 the last hit will lose to AP. Just block an do i10 punish.

Fly stance (f3+4)
It's unreliable to do AP but when she starts to fly str8 forward to you, AP will kill every option. However, the timing is so hard. It's easier to jab her out of fly stance to float her.

Armor King

3+4

1 Can be sidewalked. Free ground attack. AP will hit between the attacks.
2 Can be sidestepped. Free ground attack. AP will hit between the attacks.

The thing bout this stance is that once you see AK performing 3+4, you can spam AP and beat him if he decides to attack. However, there is mixup where Armor King can do his Back turned moves and they will beat AP. I suggest you just block 3+4, wait and recon what he do next.

Devil Jin

1234 after 3 u can SS/SSW/AP but the last hit only SSL and AP.
1+42d4 is low which you can defeat with AP. The mid mixup is sidesteppable with SSR on last hit, but AP can't hit it.
f43 but d3+4 is also guaranteed.
f1+2, wow u can interrupt this move. but you get free b12 if you block this move.
df12 if he delaus the string, b1+2 is free
b12 If DJ delays the string, AP is free
bf212 But you don't need to do AP cause SSR will give you a free launcher
b1+2 HOLD If you notice that DJ starts to charge his b1+2 you might choke. AP timing is very tight but doable. Also ss works.
b1+4 If you are too slow to input bf4/d3+4/hopkick, do AP. Timing is very easy. The reason too use AP is eg. after tech roll you can't input launchers fast enough.
fF313/fF314/fF31b1+2 mixup AP kills both options and is the best option imo.The mid option is safe but it doesen't track to DJ's left. The low option is -15 but it tracks to his left. b1+2 is useless. But AP beats all options.
CD+13 AP will hit the mid option will knd and give a free combo at the wall. Will not hit the low mixup so think twice bout doing AP.
cd uf3/df3 mixup, AP will beat the mixup. However you should always jab DJ to float a combo. both options can be walked.
ws12 If DJ delays the string, AP will score a hit.

Feng

11 Is i10 counter hit launcher launcher. AP will hit Feng but if you mess up with AP, youre dead. If you do AP, atleast block the first hit cause it's much easier to perform AP when you block the first hit. The string can be sidestepped also (easier to left).
db12 Ogre can't get knd at -10 but AP works as a real punisher so this is solid punisher. Can't get Wall combo but you get a free tag which is very good. From max range AP WILLl WHIFF BUT IT ALMOST EVERY TIME IT WORKS
bt 22 Is counter hit string and doing AP can be very risky. However, AP will connect. You decide.
SS32 is High Mid string leading into BT stance. I don't know can you punish Feng while he is in back turn stance. But after you block 3, smash b1+2 and boom, guaranteed punish.

b3+4 stance

Honestly, stay away from this stance. The range is so bad on every move, just backdash and do launcher. You can do AP but the range of Fengs stance combined with AP is so horrible.

f3+4 stance


1 Mid move,-14 with huge pushback. Can be dodged (easier to your left). AP will hit always the same time.
2 Mid move, -13 with no tracking. AP will hit always the same time.
3 High move, can be sidestepped. +Frames on hit. AP will always the same time.
4 Low move, -14 with huge pushback for a low (True Ogre can't punish this move reliable even with his jabs lol). A little bit tracking but will lose to sidewalk
and AP will hit always the same time.
1+212 This fucks AP options.The timing with AP is different and if you do AP too early, this move will hit Ogre and it's really hard to punish. It's Nc so it
hurts and it's quite hard to dodge this move.

The thing about this stance is that it has almost zero tracking and AP will 4/5 if they decisides to attack. AP is a lot easier option so if you have
low execution, perform AP. Otherwise do SS2 or SS/SW launcher of your choice. Once you see Feng entering f3+4 stance, you can spam AP.

Ganryu

344 The timing with AP is always the same. You can't smash AP but you have to time it correctly.
3434343434..... AP between every leg kick.
1+21+2 Is -13 and if Ganryu decides to lay downn and strike from there, youre dead. I do not recommend doing AP. Can be stepped also.
b41 is mid-mid string but can be interrupted on block. You can do i12 moves between the string. AP is the fastest option. Best option is to do b12.
ws12 If he delays the string, AP will connect.
ws1+21+2 If he delay the string, AP will hit. SSL also works.
FC 1112df2 You must know how to input AP to last hit.
FC df121 AP works on every hit on this string.

b21(2/d2)
b21 is safe mid-mid but can be walked to Ogres left between the string. AP hits between the punches.
2 is the mid option of the mixup. it's -13 but it's lottery 50/50 by then but AP will always win if Ganryu players decides to finish the string.
d2 is the low option of the string. It's launchable on block but scores a knockdown on hit. AP will beat both options. So good.

Sit stance (3+4)
1 Mid, knd and combo on Counter hit. Can be sidestepped (SSL).
2 low, combo at normal hit, AP beats both options, tracks

The thing about this stance is that the 2 option gives combo only at close. 3+4 will beat AP and is pretty safe cause you can't get real punish to it. best way is to stay away from ganryu before he starts his sit stance. This way his mixups isn't mixup anymore cause you have enough time
to react to it.

Heihachi

1b2. You get AP into between the moves if Heihachi delays the string.
221+2. Really strange string. somethimes AP works, but unreliable
34. Works really well
f21+2. You have to react this really fast. Pretty much jf but doable.

Rajin stance (f3+4)
1
21, be extra careful at the wall cause if you screw up, youre dead
If Heihachi do his unblockable attack, you are dead.

AP beats Heihachi's ff2 db2 mixup. When you think either of these moves are coming, do AP.It kills both options.

b121+2 AP beats it
b1+2 1+2. This move is -11 so Ogre can't get knd at -11 (only at i12) so you can get free raw tag which is pretty good.
bb1+2. since this move tracks, somethimes its really hard to sidestep/walk it. When timed right, AP will score knd and free wall splatt if you are near the wall
cd3/cd df3 mixup mid/low. best way is to hit 1 to float him but if you miss it, AP will beat both options. At the wall very easy wall splatt

Jinpachi

1b2 If he dealays the string then AP will hit. Can be sidewalked also if he dalays the string. The only time u wanna do AP is at he wall. At the wall its much more difficult 2 dodge this move
f211+2 u can hit AP after the 1+2 but u dont want 2. 1+2 is -14 and u get more damaging b12. If u wanna be flashy the AP is ur option.
ws11 if he delays the string or try to hit confirm this move, AP will beat it. Can be stepped if he delays the string.
d21 if he delays the string, AP will connect. This is Jinpachis prolly one of the best mid pokes so its a good way to beat Jinpachi if he is fishing counter hit combos. Can be sidestepped into his right if he delays the string. I suggest to do AP instead of ss if ur executoion is not on top cause its much easier. But both options are exellent. If u use a lot of AP and he starts to play mind games, ss2/AP "mixup" is pretty good.
b12 if he delays the string, AP will hit. But this happends once in a million year. Can be sidestepped into Jinpachis Left. Move is -12.

Forward teleport stance (f3+4)
1 can be sidestepped to Ogres left and walked into his right. Move is -13 mid so Ogre gets free b12 if blocked.
2 safe high attack with huge pushback. Can be sidestepped very easilly.
1+2 AP will beat even throw!
AP is really reliable against this stance. The only time he can beat u is with mind games. Once u see Jinpachi starting to teleport str8 forward 2 u, do AP and boom boom, no mixup. Super good against this stance.
Against the wall AP is even more golden cause teleport 2 is safe high and both 1 & 2 will wall splatt. The timing with AP against this stance is always the same. And thats why its so good.

Hmm, found something very golden against Jinpachi. Since this stance doesen't track AT ALL to his right, ss+2 is better option than AP. The only time u should use AP instead of ss+2 is if ure reactions arent that good or if u are just too slow. AP is very fast attack so if u didnt input ss+2 fast enough do AP.

Hatsurai stance (d3+4)
1 -12 mid. Ogre gets free b12. Can be sidestepped
2 WGF (high) can be sidestepped.
When you see Jinpachi enters this stance, AP timing is always the same. But SSL+2 is better option since it does the same job and lands a combo. The only time to use AP instead of ss+2 is if you are slow enough. Look above for better guide^^

Fly stance (uf3+4)
In general: AP will hit every attack on this stance before Jinpachis first attack comes
112 Last hit can be sidestepped to your right.
124 Last hit can be sidestepped to your right.
2 can be stepped into both directions.
34 both kicks can be stepped to both directions.
4 can be sidewalked to both directions but a lot easier to Ogres left.

When you see Jinpachi at the air, do jab. It will float him. AP is a little bit faster so if you wanna be flashy do AP.

Last edited by yoloswag on Nov 11th, 2013 at 13:36

yoloswag
Shihan
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 124
From: Finland
PSN: Chief_Sona300
#3 “Quote” Edit Post
Leo

f4 stance

12 You can't input i10 moves but AP is i8 so it's possible. The string is -12. Last hit tracks both ways
2 Counter hit launcher which AP can't interrupt. High attack though. Tracks both diection 100%
34 Mid-Mid launcher. -13 Can be sidewalked but very hard. AP is a lot easier option.
4 -16 Low, almost homing move.
b21+2 AP will beat the mid option but will not connect to high option. Not recommmendable. Can be sidstepped.
uf21 Is Mid-Mid string leading into juggle. AP will hit it between the strings but the best option is to sidestep it and launch punish this move.

Overall this stance has really good tracking, very good launchers and good range. Try not use AP against this stance even though it's possible but 2 optioon will kill you on counter hit.
Best way is prolly to stay away from it to avoid mixups or use very fast moves.

d1+2 stance

1 Gives Leo frames on hit (+9) but steppable to Ogres right.
2 Only True Ogre can punish this move with 22 but it's steppable to both directions. Good range
3 Gives Leo huge frame advantage on block (+8!) and it's low crushing homing so very good move. Good range.
4 Can transform Leo into another stance(s?) so it's tricky. Can be SW both directions and SSR.
1+2 Fucks AP cause the timing is different. You must delay the AP or she score a kockdown.

This stance has very good moves and the crushing system is nuts. You can be crushed which is pure lottery so you gotta stay away from this stance. The range is very good in every move.
And when you try to use SS, she does homing move and it hurts. However, AP timing is almost the same in all moves exept on 1+2. AP is also very good option.

Marduk

1231+2 The last hit (high) can be killed by AP there is no point of doing it. You can sidestep it, duck it or crush it. Maybe at the wall you can do AP if you don't wanna choke.
df3df12 AP is 1 option but it's the worst. You can sidestep, duck, crush or do i10 moves between the last two hits. But if you are on tournament maybe AP is more reliable.
db311 Is Low-High-Mid string where AP can be used as a punisher to look flashy but it's useless. Ogre gets free b12 or free launh if you duck the high option. No use of AP in this string but you can use it.
ws12 If he delays the string, AP will connect. But if you fuck the timing, you eat a counter hit combo. The second hit is high so not recommendable option. Just duck and punish.

IMO there is no reason to use AP against Marduk, unless you use it as an offensive tool. The risk/reward is not on your side.

Last edited by yoloswag on Nov 11th, 2013 at 13:05

yoloswag
Shihan
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 124
From: Finland
PSN: Chief_Sona300
USMCOgre
Money Inc.
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 22641
From: USA California
PSN: MoneyIncUSMCOgre
#5 “Quote” Edit Post
Great thread. I actually won a match with it on accident yesterday haha. I literally never do this move on purpose, but that's interesting that it blows up certain strings. The thing to really see is what situations is it the BEST option to blow up a string. There's string where you can ss everything which would be better than just b1+2.

Cool stuff man. Keep it up!
Signature The search for equality is a search for the lowest common denominator...
NoodleHead
will touch u gently
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 17047
From: USA North Carolina
PSN: TastyPPJuice
#6 “Quote” Edit Post
Glad to see someone organize AO's AP similar to Yoshi's flash list. Keep up the good work, Yoloswag.
yoloswag
Shihan
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 124
From: Finland
PSN: Chief_Sona300
#7 “Quote” Edit Post
Added few characters but are there any volunteers who can contribute this thread? It takes times to look 1 character. If I do this myself then it's gonna take time.

AP is kinda same thing as parry but better. Its worse than Jin or Wangs parry but definitely better than normal parry.

Last edited by yoloswag on Nov 8th, 2013 at 11:25

oOo_oOo-916
Banned By Mod
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 463
#8 “Quote” Edit Post
Yea I use AP probably more than usual...I dont really use it to blow up strings...just defensively .

I use it when raw tagging in as well. Very good here if u can make reads.

Also to stop foward movement with my opponent....I dont use it to counter moves, but like, to counter moves with foward movement.

For example:

Characters like hwoarang and beak. Ppl who like to wavedash or just dash in mix ups....stuff like that.

Of course I use it when my opponent is at +frames and very close .....some times...

So using it offensively is very interesting.
Signature aka NorCal_Tekken aka lilty916
oOo_oOo-916
Banned By Mod
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 463
#9 “Quote” Edit Post
I actually use AP, so ill do some testing as well when I get to the house.

I have use b1,2~b into AP before as well.

But ill get character data as well as general AP traps
Signature aka NorCal_Tekken aka lilty916
Markymutt
Kyu
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 4
From: New Zealand
#10 “Quote” Edit Post
A good time to use AP is when Jun/Asuka Uses their reversal tag move. Usually you get hit with an unblockable launch from the tagged in Character but AP chews them out EVERY time. I have tried every other option to escape but AP is the only one that works everytime.
yoloswag
Shihan
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 124
From: Finland
PSN: Chief_Sona300
#11 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Markymutt
A good time to use AP is when Jun/Asuka Uses their reversal tag move. Usually you get hit with an unblockable launch from the tagged in Character but AP chews them out EVERY time. I have tried every other option to escape but AP is the only one that works everytime.

I don't really understand what you mean. When they use their reversal? Or the same way? AP can't hit them while they use their reversal. The range is shitty.

Today I will add couple characters and then 1/5 is done! Discovered that character eg. Armor King has very few strings that AP can beat. At the same time SS df1 works very reliable.
Markymutt
Kyu
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 4
From: New Zealand
#12 “Quote” Edit Post
What I mean is that both Jun & Asuka have a reversal that is kind of like a tag throw, (it may not be a reversal just a tag throw, I am unsure, but 90% percent sure that they can switch during the reversal) and usually the tagged kazama will get a guaranteed f+2 launch. When the switched character comes in for the f+2 that is when the AP is guaranteed as it puts them insanely close to you
Markymutt
Kyu
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 4
From: New Zealand
#13 “Quote” Edit Post
I have confirmed that it is Jun with the reversal tag, she can tag with any character during her reversal.
For an example see here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACn_cHqaeEs
AP crushes all tag ins from any character

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