Ling's Laboratory - experimenting with setups

Page Splits 123>...4
Share This Topic
Share
Subscribe/Jump Subscribe This Topic
< >
shauno
MentalFrameAdvantage
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 2943
From: USA California
#1 “Quote” Edit Post
We had a great thread like this in the T6 sub forum, and I've seen some people here wanting one for TTT2, so here we go. It's a place for Xiao/Miha fans to mess around with interesting offensive and defensive setups to see if they are worth using in hardcore play.

Please, before you post a random idea, test it out yourself in practice mode (i.e. using the record function) so you know the weaknesses of the setup along with the strengths.
Hopefully we come up with some effective new stuff to try with the old girl.
Signature "Practice makes improvement - you can never be perfect"
shauno
MentalFrameAdvantage
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 2943
From: USA California
#2 “Quote” Edit Post
I was messing around in Tekken Revolution with some combos/setups and came up with this pretty crazy mixup that I adapted to TTT2's version of Xiao/Miharu. Behold the powah of the Jumping Pirouette (AoP U/F~3)!

If you forgot what this move is, I don't blame you. It's the slow kick that comes out by accident when you hit the button late trying an AoP u/f+3,3 launcher, and it spins the opponent into back turned (OBT) if it hits. It does a massive 40 points of damage and you then have about a +7 advantage that rises to about +20 advantage if you drop into ~d+1+2 AoP.

In TR you can then get a good ~AoP follow-up juggle because of the improved AoP u/f+3 is a legit launcher in that game, and in earlier Tekkens you had time to ~b+3+4 RDS Mistrust for a free launch. Still, the guaranteed combo damage in TTT2 is no slouch either. The best juggle I have right now is:

- AoP U/F~3~d+1+2 (OBT), AoP u/f+3,1 (OBT) B!, AoP 2,1 = 90 damage.

Not bad at all. You can get +3 more damage if you do ~AoP 1,2, RDS 4 after the B!, but that whiffs on smalls. To inflict some real pain though, you need to try a OBT mixup instead after the powerful Pirouette kick connects instead of a juggle.

The best guaranteed followup to do directly after the kick to get access to awesome mixups is ~AoP 1,2. This string is mid high recovering in RDS, but it is a natural combo if the opponent is facing forwards or backwards (even if you delay it). It also does a non-scaled chunk of 34 damage on its own because it is not part of a juggle despite being free combo hits vs. OBT.

So you and your target are both in back turned, but you have a +4 frame RDS advantage vs. OBT. Also, it takes time for an opponent to turn around and block (at least 7f total), but it only takes 1f to OBT duck. With that in mind here are some great followups to it.

AoP U/F~3~d+1+2 (OBT), AoP 1,2... (74 damage so far!):

~RDS d_D+3 (+18 damage)
After getting smacked by the first three hits listed above for big damage, most opponents who haven't seen this setup (i.e., almost everyone) will likely not try to attack right away since they are still in OBT. That allows this low kick to connect whether they hold back or D/B to block, giving you nice damage and another 6-7 frames of advantage for your next attack.

It can be stopped by any OBT attack the opponent tries though. Total damage is 96, which is only +6 more than the guaranteed juggle above *BUT* remember the opponent was not launched or knocked down with any of the hits, meaning they can not Tag Crash after you finish. So consider doing the ~RDS d+3 version - that way you can stay in RDS to punish a raw tag with the mid range Mistrust or long range Roo Kick.


~RDS b+3 (+33 damage)
This i10 attack does massive damage that is not scaled because it isn't guaranteed. However, it will interrupt any attack they try from back turned, it can not be OBT parried or side stepped, and will always hit if they simply hold back to turn around. It can be ducked or low crushed, which is its only weakness. The total damage if it hits is 107.


~RDS 1+3_2+4 (either +35 or +50 damage)
Both RDS throws always look like 2+4 throw for escape confusion, and he has to OBT duck or low crush it in a frame or so to avoid it. The Pirouette has to hit somewhat deep though for Xiao's stubby little arms to reach as they hold back and turn around. If they are slow to hold back, it's a back throw. That totals 109 damage if a normal throw connects, and 124 damage if the back throw connects.


~ Mistrust juggle (either +60 or +'round over' damage)
Throw this out as your mixup option when you need the mother of all comebacks. The Mistrust can be simply blocked and launched by your OBT enemy like normal; no way around that. However, it will juggle vs. any attack as well as a crouch defender. If it launches them in OBT, Xiao alone gets ~f+3,1, RDS 2, RDS 2~2 (OBT) B!, d+1+2, AoP 2,1, bringing the total damage to 134.

If you do a TA! instead (or if the Mistrust launches them facing forward because they attacked), you can inflict over 150 damage without a sweat. For Xiao/Lei, this pretty much ends any round:

AoP U/F~3~d+1+2 (OBT), AoP 1,2 (OBT), RDS 4~5...
~(if it launches OBT), Lei 1+2,1, BT 4,4~5, Xiao SSR f+2,1,4, Lei f,f,f+3 = 164 total damage.
~(if it launches forward), Lei f+2, 1+2,1, BT 4,4~5, Xiao SSR f+2,1,4, Lei f,f,f+3 = 167 total damage.

As a bonus, the ~Mistrust option works best out of all the options to hit a dying enemy who tries to run out with a raw tag after Xiao's first three power hits connects.

~~~

The Pirouette is about -7 on block if you try to attack from AoP, and it's -18 if you attempt to exit AoP and block. However, recovering from AoP to block has better properties like Lars landing from u/f+3. You are super low high mids like Xiaoyu's d/f+4 and her f+1+2 shoulder will whiff. Plus, you can stay in AoP on block and use the -7 frames to side roll dodge with ~AoP 1+3_2+4, which will avoid slower mids.

So how do we connect since it is pretty slow from standing? The kick itself is not too bad in speed for all the nice perks it has, but we have to get into AoP first, which takes time if you do it manually. It also has pretty good range.

For one, it is guaranteed against whiffed wake up kicks if you drop to AoP and aren't too close as they rise and attack (you can be closer vs. a rising mid kick though). At the right range, input the Pirouette's command right as the kick whiffs and there is no way for them to avoid the damage.

Maybe it can be used as a mixup in situations where an AoP sweep is expected and this comes out instead? Another thought is to see if there are any canned strings we can attack for free with it since d+1+2 does start with a high crush and SSR into AoP to dodge one move, and then gives Xiao an instant low crush for the next move.

Also, if Xiao is already in AoP from a previous setup (i.e. FC d/f+4_AoP f+4 is +5 into AoP), then it is a little faster to come out. Perhaps vs. expected power sweeps or throw if she is in AoP already? Yes, AoP d+1+2 is more dependable as an AoP power launcher (and it high crushes too), but I'll still give this one a go for awhile to see how well it can work.

Last edited by shauno on Aug 4th, 2013 at 00:17

Signature "Practice makes improvement - you can never be perfect"
x MAD AXES x
Anna=washing machine
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3402
PSN: MAD AXES
XBL: Lingxiaowho
#3 “Quote” Edit Post
I'm starting to mess around with AOP uf~3 too.

You can get AOP uf~3~d+1+2 AOP cancel ws+2 RDS 4

The max damage off AOP uf~3~d+1+2 AOP uf+3,1 is

AOP cancel ws+2 RDS 2 2,2,1

Also I was messing with AOP 4~3 at the wall it seems that if they stay grounded for the get up 3 fc 3,2,1 is guaranteed on the back if they don't tech and alot of people don't for some reason, im unsure if fc 3,2,1,4 is as sometimes it will whiff at certain angles.
Signature Galen "Feed me your load"

Lucky Chloe troll
shauno
MentalFrameAdvantage
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 2943
From: USA California
#4 “Quote” Edit Post
I couldn't get the first combo to work, but the second one is really nice with a slight edit:
Miha_Xiao solo: AoP U/F~3~d+1+2 (OBT), AoP u/f+3,1 B! (OBT), AoP f+3+4, WS+2, RDS 2, RDS 2~2,1 = 100 damage


One Tag version:
Xiao/Lei: AoP U/F~3~d+1+2 (OBT), AoP u/f+3,1~5 TA! (OBT), Lei SSR f+3,1,2, Xiao F+2,1,4 = 116 damage

Heh, If Xiao is Raged in that last one and gets a CH on the first kick, the combo does 149 total guaranteed damage.

~~~

Yeah, I get OBT FC 3,2,1 a lot in the same situation. It usually happens for me if I connect 1+2 at the wall, and then do 4~3~d+1+2, AoP 4~3. Once I did get the ~4 to launch after the string, but the opponent was at an angle to Xiao's right at the wall when it happened.

Last edited by shauno on Aug 5th, 2013 at 06:32

Signature "Practice makes improvement - you can never be perfect"
x MAD AXES x
Anna=washing machine
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3402
PSN: MAD AXES
XBL: Lingxiaowho
#5 “Quote” Edit Post
Yeah the timing on the 1st one is strict.


I was messing around with that ss+3 trap JMS posted. Seems if you do b+2 with lingharu and they tag crash, if you ss the tag crash will whiff and you can do dash 1,d+2 RDS 4 as a punish.
Signature Galen "Feed me your load"

Lucky Chloe troll
x MAD AXES x
Anna=washing machine
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3402
PSN: MAD AXES
XBL: Lingxiaowho
#6 “Quote” Edit Post
Shauno check pm, also AOP uf~3~d+1+2 AOP uf+3,1 the 1 in it will whiff on certain characters.
Signature Galen "Feed me your load"

Lucky Chloe troll
shauno
MentalFrameAdvantage
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 2943
From: USA California
#7 “Quote” Edit Post
It works on all characters (I tried vs. Xiao, Asuka, Lee. etc.), but at some angles the game won't let the second attack hit anyone in P-Mode. Do a regular hop kick to reset and then the launcher 2-hitter will connect again.
Signature "Practice makes improvement - you can never be perfect"
x MAD AXES x
Anna=washing machine
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3402
PSN: MAD AXES
XBL: Lingxiaowho
#8 “Quote” Edit Post
Oh you see in a match I landed AOP uf~3 and AOP uf+3,1 whiffed on slim Bob, must have been that angle then, do you think it would be possible to get AOP uf+3,3 Xmts, if not maybe on bigs. We should also test stuff on Raven since he can't get out of bt as quick as the rest of the cast.

I'm testing Lings RDS ff+3+4 grab, ff+3 seems to be guaranteed, so I'm getting my friend to see if they stand up will ff+3 RDS 4 be guaranteed since ff+3 hits get uppers in the back, Most likely won't so I guess you will get a RDS mixup.
Signature Galen "Feed me your load"

Lucky Chloe troll
shauno
MentalFrameAdvantage
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 2943
From: USA California
#9 “Quote” Edit Post
The most consistent way I get RDS f,f+3+4 to connect is after d/f+1 connects. You get a ton of frame advantage while you are in BT, and they stay close so you can connect the inescapable throw a lot, even if they back dash. It is Stella me though, and they can run under it. Against the wall works well too as oki.
Signature "Practice makes improvement - you can never be perfect"
x MAD AXES x
Anna=washing machine
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3402
PSN: MAD AXES
XBL: Lingxiaowho
#10 “Quote” Edit Post
Signature Galen "Feed me your load"

Lucky Chloe troll
green)Lei
do it like old water
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1281
From: Germany
PSN: GreenLei
#11 “Quote” Edit Post
some nice stuff i going there..

but after 2+4 quickstand d+2 cc f3,1 would be your juggle of choice
Signature ---> Lei general guide

---> and combos traps wallgame

"you cannot outsmart that which doesnt think"
x MAD AXES x
Anna=washing machine
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3402
PSN: MAD AXES
XBL: Lingxiaowho
#12 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by green)Lei
some nice stuff i going there..

but after 2+4 quickstand d+2 cc f3,1 would be your juggle of choice
Thanks I usually do d+2 ff+2 XMTS Miharu b+3+4 RDS 1,4 ling ff+3+4 but I was having a bad ff day XD.
Signature Galen "Feed me your load"

Lucky Chloe troll
x MAD AXES x
Anna=washing machine
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3402
PSN: MAD AXES
XBL: Lingxiaowho
green)Lei
do it like old water
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1281
From: Germany
PSN: GreenLei
#14 “Quote” Edit Post


be sure to check the video in my signature, theres some stuff

yeah I found the third one back in t6 days. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5Xc...9zLOzaRHvx6cWtw
the forth one is in my video, Sodam came up with this
5) isnt that possible with B!?
7) I think eveb AoP d1+2 works after the tag crash evade or ufn4?
8) this I also found some month ago, but that was an easy find I guess^^

cant watch the others now, but I was planning to finish my newest video this week, there will be some of the stuff you posted here. maybe we can cooperate? I have a channel with subscribers and much more people will see your ideas
Signature ---> Lei general guide

---> and combos traps wallgame

"you cannot outsmart that which doesnt think"
x MAD AXES x
Anna=washing machine
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3402
PSN: MAD AXES
XBL: Lingxiaowho
#15 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by green)Lei
be sure to check the video in my signature, theres some stuff

yeah I found the third one back in t6 days. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5Xc...9zLOzaRHvx6cWtw
the forth one is in my video, Sodam came up with this
5) isnt that possible with B!?
7) I think eveb AoP d1+2 works after the tag crash evade or ufn4?
8) this I also found some month ago, but that was an easy find I guess^^

cant watch the others now, but I was planning to finish my newest video this week, there will be some of the stuff you posted here. maybe we can cooperate? I have a channel with subscribers and much more people will see your ideas
Just really posted all tech traps I knew.

5) as long as you have enough wall hits for them not to slide down quick.
And yeah we could co operate if you want.
Signature Galen "Feed me your load"

Lucky Chloe troll
x MAD AXES x
Anna=washing machine
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3402
PSN: MAD AXES
XBL: Lingxiaowho
#16 “Quote” Edit Post
Green) lei and shauno, sodam did this

Lingharu ff+3+4 tag assault ender backdash d+1+2 opponent tag crashes AOP uf~3~d+1+2 u ws+2 RDS 4, it seems that depending on the frame AOP uf~3~d+1+2 hits the more advantage you gain (in this case it hitting very late to make ther u ws+2 possible to hit on back).
Signature Galen "Feed me your load"

Lucky Chloe troll
shauno
MentalFrameAdvantage
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 2943
From: USA California
#17 “Quote” Edit Post
That makes sense. I can test it to see how tough it is to make it guaranteed.
Signature "Practice makes improvement - you can never be perfect"
x MAD AXES x
Anna=washing machine
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3402
PSN: MAD AXES
XBL: Lingxiaowho
#18 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by shauno
That makes sense. I can test it to see how tough it is to make it guaranteed.
Thanks, it's always guaranteed after that juggle thing, as early in the frames they will crush it as come up at late frames and it still counts as punish.
Signature Galen "Feed me your load"

Lucky Chloe troll
shauno
MentalFrameAdvantage
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 2943
From: USA California
#19 “Quote” Edit Post
Yeah, it is guaranteed and works really well. Here's my version with Miha/Lei:

Miha (any small launcher), d/f+2, f,f+2, XMTS~5 TA!, Lei SSL, b+4,1, Miha, f,f+3+4 (70 - 80 damage)...

...<opponent Tag Crashes> b~b~d+1+2, U/F~3~d+1+2, AoP ~u, WS+2, (adds 62 damage), then either:
~Mistrust~5 (opponent floats normally), Lei f+2, 1+2,1, BT 4,4~5 TA!, Miha SSR f+2,1,4, Lei f,f,f+3 (adds 93 for 233+ total damage) -OR-
~Mistrust~5 (opponent floats backwards) Lei f+2, 1+2,1, BT 4,4, f,F+3,4 (adds 76 for 210+ total damage)

So the big AoP U/F~3 combo alone is 138 or 155 damage for Miha/Lei depending on if the opponent spins around when the Mistrust launches or not. As long as the big turning kick isn't too close, the AoP~u, WS+2 connects in time.

Nice setup, and a solo version even works in TR.

Last edited by shauno on Aug 20th, 2013 at 16:23

Signature "Practice makes improvement - you can never be perfect"
itsnotjojo
Berserker
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 432
From: USA Texas
PSN: jchantra
XBL: jchantra
#20 “Quote” Edit Post
You guys got a lot of good stuff going here! Must. Utilize. Tech!
Signature

 All times are GMT. The time now is 18:49

Page Splits 123>...4
Moderator Tools
Forum Jump