Pimp Korean Kick Masta - The Baek Guide

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Budding Fighter
^ Thanks AZYG4LYFE!
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1606
From: New Zealand
#1 “Quote” Edit Post
(turns out I couldn't think of a better title than this)

Hey guys, this is a guide to Baek the community has been writing for a couple of months. It has a whole lot of information, but a whole lot of info still required for this guide is still in the works (can't have absolutely everything), and we might add more sections to it.
This is intended for all Baek players - whether you're new to TTT2 and/or Baek or a veteran, there's something in here for everyone (or so I hope), from movelist breakdowns and frame data knowledge, to full blown oki setups and strats.
It's still a work in progress, and probably always will be.

Dedicated to Noodlehead/Josh who dropped Baek in the middle of T6 BR. Come back to Baek plz.

NOTE: I beg all of you to NOT post in this thread. Post here if you want to contribute, found an error, or want to comment (if you can send me a bag of cookies that'd be great - chocolate chip only, please).
Also, before asking any questions, I recommend you read the whole thread before, because more often than not you'll find your answer here in the guide.

- Find full frame data HERE (thanks to MadCow from rbnorway for the frame data).
- This guide makes use of the Western notation system. Find it HERE
- Before we move along, here's my take on ranges:
Picture (It's a picture describing how I talk about ranges in this guide. Forgive the terrible graphics)

TABLE OF CONTENTS:
1) Overview (it's right under this)
2) Movelist breakdown - part 1/part 2
3) iFLA cancelling - a study (Also contains HOW TO DO 3+4 REPEATEDLY IN COMBOS)
4) FLA SS - a study
5) NoodleHead's Side Dish Guide
6) Punishing (a general guide; a full punishing list will be up)
7) Juggling (just an overview; look in the juggle thread - solo and teams - for more info)
8) Okizeme
9) FLA WD (credit to NoodleHead for providing with the main guide)
10) General playstyle
11) Peeling the onion
12) FLA offense
13) Wall Game
14) Mindset
15) Baek and the tag system
16) Anti and anti-anti Baek
17) Random info


1) Overview
Here's some pros and cons to playing as Baek.
Pros:
- Uncommon character (ie most scenes don't have a good Baek player), so you might run into players who don't know what the hell to do against Baek. This can be a great advantage in tournament situations.
- Magic 4, though i12 now, is still strong.
- His damage is, if not at the bottom of top tier, just under top tier. The new ff+4,3 combos do a LOT of damage.
- Awesome wall carry (top 10 easy).
- Wall combo damage solo is quite high (not top tier high like Steve but still good).
- Above average post wall combo oki (can tack on extra 15-20 points depending on what opponent does; extra 15 points after full wall carry to wall combo is quite a lot).
- Awesome low in db+3,3~f.
- Strong mid pokes (df+1, df+4,4, WS 4, d+1, ff+4) and decent low pokes (SSL 3, d+3 and d+4)
- Combo and wall oki is just below herp derp level.
- FLA pressure game is solid (FLA 3,3~f, FLA f+3, FLA b+3 vs db+3,3~f).

Cons:
- Lots of holes in standing game.
- FLA is only a threat if you get hit by a move into FLA. On block opp can destroy Baek easy.
- Weak punishers in general (He's not destroying the world like Bruce or Paul is).
- Crappy hopkick.
- Short range in general. (except for FLA f+3 and df+3 which are slow)
- Lots of stuff is punishable.
- No generic d+4 low which high crushes.
- Average/below-average tracking (no fast homing move that doesn't need execution).
- Throws are very average.
- Wall game is still a bit booty (though it has improved drastically from previous games).
- Risk reward is often not in his favour.
- Requires a lot of thinking power (can't go Lars herp derp 1,2 SS ark blast herp derp b+1 blocked uf+3)
- Average movement (really good SSR though ).
- Pretty easy to keep out if you know what you're doing.
- Very difficult execution (new ff+4,3 combos are difficult, FLA cancelling in general is quite tough to squeeze max frames out of, WD is difficult, iFLA in the open is difficult, SkyRocket as a block punisher is difficult).

Know what you're getting into. Baek is not extremely easy to use (nowhere near that haha), but with loyalty, dedication and good reads, no one can stop your !

Changes/additions from Tekken 6: Bloodline Rebellion(- means negative changes, + means positive changes, +/- means neutral):
Changes:
- The 3 enders of his strings (such as df+4,4,3, WS 4,4,3, f+4,3, FLA 3,4,4,3) are interruptable by jabs on block. This takes away a lot from his old FLA looping game.
- Since there is delay between the 3 enders of his strings, he gets less + frames on hit and more - frames on block on those enders being cancelled into FLA (hard nerf).
- 2P Pimp suit is completely gone (hands down the hardest nerf to him if I had to say just one).
- Magic 4 is i12 now (pretty hard nerf).
- FLA uf+3 has lost tracking (not a 'homing' move anymore)
- FLA 3,3 is now mh.
- FLA 3,3 doesn't track as well anymore (really hard nerf).
- FLA SuperSS is completely gone, except from 4,3,3~f and 3+4~f.
- f~n~f:3 is completely gone (pretty hard nerf).
- CH (df+1),3 is only +8 as opposed to the earlier +12.
- d+2 is -10 and has virtually no tracking (hard nerf).
- 1,1 is only +7 instead of +9 like it used to be (really hard nerf).
- 4,3,3~f is +4 instead of +5~6 like it used to be (hard nerf).
- Magic 4 is worse on whiff (system change). 4,4 isn't as delayable anymore and is -10 on block now and only +1 on hit (compared to the -4 on block and +7 on hit). It also recovers later which means that oki from it is worsened at the wall.
- iWR 3 is +9~12 on block as opposed to the earlier +17 (system change).
- df+3+4 does less unscaled damage - 12 as opposed to 17 in T6 (system change; pretty uncalled for though).
+/- 1,2,3,3,3,d+4 does not float KND, but it KND's like Wang b+1~4. Wasn't real useful to begin with, really tough to hit people with, so eh.
+/- b+2 KND's on regular hit now, but the pushback on b+2 on hit is too much to give the free d+2 it used to give.
+ b+4 doesn't launch anymore on regular hit (that means no getting to their back and getting regular combo off of b+4), only on counter, but it's now completely safe, has a range buff (slight but noticeable), huge tracking buff (tracks 99% to his left and a little to his right) and W!'s.
+ FLA triple SS is really good (system change).
+ CD+3 has a lot of pushback now on block (reminiscent of DR pushback though not as much obviously).
+ 1,2,3,4,3 launches regularly on the back.
+ d+3,3,n+3 launches regularly on the back.
+ df+3+4's hitbox has been lowered significantly; it actually hits as a B! followup consistently now.
+ 2+4 throw will now wallsplat.
+ FLA f+3 on CH stuns for a full combo (+19; CH FLA f+3, FLA f+4 W! for HUGE damage). Allows for a full combo if you df+3~f on open ground. His biggest buff if I had to name one.


Overall he seems to have been hit by the nerf bat pretty hard, and is a MUCH different character from all his previous iterations, but I believe he's still tournament worthy (hell, every character is) and he's still more than fun to play (well for me anyway).

Additions:
+ FLA 3,3~f: the FLA 3,3 kicks are cancellable now into FLA again. GREAT for FLA pressure.
+ ff+4,3: mh, NC, i16, not hit confirmable, W!'s, breaks walls and balconies in combos, does retarded damage (especially in rage; 2 of those equals 50% gone). It's mh so they can duck it, and it's not possible to hit confirm it, but it's NC so it's good as a whiff punisher with their back to the wall. NOT cancellable into FLA. ff+4 is a GREAT way to approach someone, as it is a homing move, +2 on hit, -8 on block. Baek's never had a quick homing move before, so this is a welcome addition to his arsenal. Also a GREAT filler for combos - works as a starter, filler, TA filler, ender (for wall carry).
+ (1,2,)3,3,3~f. Cancellable into FLA. Good for pressure (quick string that is hard to duck on reaction).
+/- FLA b+3+4: special low parry possible from FLA. Parries on frame 1. Meh, if I know a low is coming I'd rather FLA uf+3. Same risk, but unlike FLA b+3+4 parrying on first frame, FLA uf+3 crush frames take a while to start, so might be a better option in a clutch situation when you feel your execution won't be on point. Or if you're just going for super style points via taunts.
+/- uf,n,3,3,3~f Only really good in TA's but does really good damage in TA's.
- FLA 3,3,4 (mhh), FLA 3,3,d+4 (mhl). Really bad mix-ups from the ending string.


Taggable Moves:
1) (1,2)3,4,3 the last hit - actually, anything that looks like the last hit is taggable
2) FLA uf+3
3) CD+3
4) SS 3+4
5) 2+4~5

Thanks to the following for helping and contributing:
CaCarmen
Marin
Hyun Sai
Mr Taliban
Lord TKD
raybonekilla
NoodleHead (he allowed his guide to be here)

Last edited by Budding Fighter on Apr 30th, 2014 at 08:30

Signature St. George loves my attitude! ("You know too much." - azL) Everything will remain at 50% of its ideal size.
"Here son do a slight dash after ff4,3 into 4,3,4 when they're flying through the air and those Nina players will stop teasing your execution at school." - Skeering
"If Baek gets your back you basically die." - Bronson
"At the bottom of the tier list, it's hard to hear the bitching from the top." - raybonekilla
Budding Fighter
^ Thanks AZYG4LYFE!
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1606
From: New Zealand
#2 “Quote” Edit Post
2) Movelist breakdown

Note: For newer players, I have bolded the moves one should use, if they're just starting with Baek, and also wrote down in brackets, why they should use them.

Standard movelist
- 1,1: 0 on block, +7 on hit, jails. 10 frames. Not many Baek players use this as a pressure tool or a poke, and I don't know why. It's so good! It's useable as a poke because jab string (fast), and it jails. Also it's 0 on block and doesn't move anyone, so it resets the situation, which is good.

- 2,2: 10 frame punisher. -2 on hit, but a chunk of damage. -13 on block and does not jail, so if you're using this, know what you're punishing.
Interesting fact: the second hit on CH launches for a standing stun (Low hitting moves can pick up after this).

- 2,3: Safe (0 on block) transition into FLA. It can be used kind of like Hwoarang's 2,3, so that you're able to start your pressure game.

- 1,2 (standard jabs): Standard 1,2. All extensions are high. Can go into FLA (via 1,2,3~f and 1,2,3,3,3~f; Jung Pa Dak uses 1,2,3,3,3~f a lot in his pressure game so watch his vids on tips as to how to use that move and check the FLA offense section on a more detailed breakdown on 1,2,3,3,3~f). Full strings he can do off of it are: 1,2,3,3,3,4 (h,h,h,h,h,h,h; worthless), 1,2,3,3,3,d+4(h,h,h,h,h,h,l; great), 1,2,3,3>4,4,3 (h,h,h,h,m,m,m; usable on occasion), 1,2,3,3,4,4,4 (h,h,h,h,m,m,l; not extremely worth it but can be used rarely), and 1,2,3,4,3 (h,h,h,l,m; only really worth it till the 4th hit). 1,2,3,4,3 is NOT guaranteed on opponent's back; they can duck after 1,2.

- 3 strings: only combo material. Never use this in a real match ever. Goes into same strings as 1,2,3 above.

- 4(panic button): 12 frames, magic 4. Combo on CH possible from 3+4 right after it; misses at absolute max range (and on Bears if not point blank range). A necessity if you want to play Baek. Recovers worse on whiff than in the past games - system change.
NOTE: Has a really really chunky hitbox, so to crush it the opponent needs a legitimate high crush.
WARNING: On Bears, CH 4, 3+4 does not work. To get any combo from CH 4 you need to commit to 4,3,3~f.

- 4,3: You never want to use 4,3 by itself because it's horrible on hit and block (-4 on hit and -10 on block). Use 4,3,3~f as your -12 punisher. 4,3,3~f also floats rather easily and is good, if a bit risky, as an oki tool. Also goes into his 10 string, but it's trash.

- 4,4: This move used to be super good. It still is, just not as great as it was. 4,4 is not as delayable as in T6; it recovers slower so old oki setups not possible anymore. Now -10 on block, still steppable both ways. CH (4,)4 still gives free, tag crashable d+2.

- 1+2,4(decently quick whiff punisher from range): Your primary -14 punisher. This move punishes a lot of things Baek can't reach with anything else. 1+2 is now -10 on block (stupid), while 1+2,4 is launchable on block, so use with caution. Use it as a punisher only. It doesn't look like it's something that should be launch punishable though, so test your opponent on whether they know this is launch punishable.

- 3+4: Lightning Halberd. 3+4 is -13 on block by itself, but you can cancel it into FLA by holding f, which leaves you at +2. In this scenario, if they hit any button that's not a jab or a high crush, they get launched. Also good in combos. 3+4 on block, the best option is to FLA super sidestep, because the +2 on block really leads to pretty bad mixups... unless you got the opponent afraid to move, which they really shouldn't.

- f+2(aggressive mid): Hits a bit low (can still be gone under by stupid moves) than his other mids. i15 and tracks a little bit to his left (can certainly be stepped though). f+2,1 is hella HC and is NC for 29 damage and +8 on hit. f+2 is safe, while f+2,1 is duckable and launchable. f+2,1,2 KND's. (f+2,1,)2 launches on CH and on regular hit gives free d+3,3,n+3(~5). (f+2,)1,2 is NCc. f+2,1 is really good in both FLA and regular pressure, and if they're happy with pushing buttons after f+2,1 hit (they shouldn't be doing it anyway though), use the last 2 to launch. f+2,1,4 can catch someone asleep after eating f+2,1.

- f+3: This move is plain trash. f+3 is 12 frames, has no good range, is high and tracks for garbage. f+3,3 is NC and and that's sorta good I guess. f+3,3,2 is h,l,m. The last hit launches on CH. f+3,3,b+2 is the same string except the low is cancelled. Again, pretty useless.

- f+4: Mishima f+4, except not really. Unlike Mishima f+4, it's not + on block. f+4 is -1~0 on block, which is still pretty good though. f+4,3 is now interruptable by jabs on block, and now W!'s on regular hit. f+4,4 does not KND unless on CH. f+4 B!'s. f+4,3 and f+4,4 are NCc.

- f+3+4(homing move): A rather situational homing move IMO. i21 so it's really slow, -11 so it's punishable. W!'s though, so that's good. Also breaks walls in combos. ff+4,3 is the better homing move IMO. However some good about this move is that it has a lot more range than you'd expect it to have. At max range it's sorta safe against character with shitty jabs. It also W!'s from a distance which is something to note.

- df+1(standard mid poke): Golden standard. Generic df+1, -1 on block, tracks SSR.

- df+1,3: NC, +8 on hit, +2 on block (too bad it's duckable) and goes into FLA. One of the few places where trying to enforce FLA pressure won't get you killed (when the df+1,3 hits, of course).

- df+2(whiff punisher for quick whiffs): Generic uppercut, has phantom range, i15, safe on block, doesn't launch crouchers. Abusable.

- df+3: More info in FLA WD section. Basically, df+3 is i22, is Baek's most ranged move (unless long dash moves or running moves), launches on CH, HC'able into df+3,4. df+3 is +1 on hit and -11 on block, but opponents won't usually try to punish for fear of the second hit. The second hit W!'s and is -14 with a decent amount of pushback. df+3 tracks against SSR all day.

- df+4(mid poke): Standard 12 frame mid. df+4,4 is NCc. I suggest just using df+4,4 and not actually trying to go into the ender mixups. df+4,4 is safe, the enders are not. Also if you try to HC df+4,4 you might delay the 3 ender, allowing opponent to retaliate with a quick jab string or something. Goes into f+4 enders. Keep in mind df+4 does not track to any direction and neither do the followups.
WARNING: There are instances where the second hit will whiff (some random off axis scenario).

- df+3+4: Standard combo ender. Does unscaled damage (about 12 I believe; a nerf from T6 when it did 17). Has a lower hitbox now. Useless in the open.

- d+1: i14~15 mid punch poke. Tracks for garbage and has short range, but useable at the wall. d+1 is -1~0 on block which is awesome for a poke, as it allows for SS and BD whiff punishment setups (as well as a triple sidestep bait). It's also +9 on hit which is extremely good. This move is GODLIKE for wall pressure.

- d+1,4: d+1,4 is also usable (more so at the wall). d+1,4 is a CH combo and is easy to confirm (d+1 sparks on CH) doing really good damage and is +5 on hit which is great, especially at the wall. The 4 tracks SSR (whole string can be SSL though), and on CH W!'s and as such, the string gains a lot more useability at the wall (you can play with the second hit and it's delayability). It's punishable though at -10, so keep that in mind. In combos d+1 spikes, but no oki possible.
Interesting fact: If they neutral block d+1, the 4 hits.

- d+2: This used to be so good. d+2 is what made his oki game herp derp in DR. d+2 now tracks for garbage against sideroll (unless you dash), has a range problem, and is punishable. Almost solely for if they'll stay down now. d+2 at the wall gives a d+4,4>4 or a 4,4 depending on what you want.

- d+3(standard low poke): i15, crushes jabs. d+3,3,n+3 is L,L,m while d+3,3,d+3 is L,L,L. Tracks sideroll and usable as an oki tool at the wall. Also useable as a combo filler (as in Baek launch, d+3,3,n+3~5). Tracks decently to his right. Good low poke at range.
WARNING: The d+3,3,3 and d+3,3,d+3 mixup is fuzzy guardable. A timed down jab will either block the low, or interrupt the mid.

- d+4: Not-so-generic low. i12, doesn't high crush, -13 on block and -2 on hit. Tracks really well (only Lili can SWL it), so if you expect an opponent to step, you can mix this up with some other mid that tracks the way they're stepping.

- d+4,3,3 (d+4,3 is a good low mid CH): Guaranteed on CH. d+4,3 is -11 on block, d+4,3,3 is launchable on block and -4 on hit. However the opponent more often than not will wait for the low(d+4,3,3,d+3)/mid (d+4,3,3,3; the same as f+4,3 the mid ender) extension which can be all SWL'd.

- d+4,4,4: Only used in wall combos. It's essentially d+4 into magic 4 series except that you can't do 4,3 from it. The ender recovers a bit worse than 4,4, so d+2 is backrollable for a spike.

- db+1: Generic duck jab.

- db+2(primary whiff punisher): Easy mode whiff punisher. Now recovers better so 4,3,3~f combos are possible. -13 on block (better than the -14 Namco loves). Great floater for wall carry.

- db+3: I love this low. db+3 itself is eh, -14 on block, 0 on hit, hits grounded. db+3,3 is NC, death on block (l,h). db+3,3~f(pressure low) is cancelled into FLA, is +8 on hit, -6 on block (ie theoretically you can make this move launch safe against WS launchers that have punch inputs by PPing after) and +11 on hit (ie free 2,2 on CH). Your main tool to chip the opponent while in FLA. It doesn't track all that well, but hey, lows with heavy + like this one don't come by so much.

- db+4: YOLO sweep, -40 on block, seeable (tough, however; test your opponent), launches. His best high crush and also with the most risk.
NOTE: db+4, WS 2,1 combos at the wall.

- db+3+4: Unblockable, hits grounded, accessible from FLA, 61 frames. You can cancel this by hitting b~b and it cancels into FLA. Provides great mindgames when your opponent is on the ground, or while pressuring the opponent if they went to sleep holding back.

- b+1: Auto SSR, punishable at -11, mid. A kind of a lower risk, lower reward b+3 for evasion basically. One of his faster B! moves (i15). I'd rather use b+3 for evasion, but it's usable when you can't b+3 (EG when you are in FLA)

- b+2: Unlike Hwoarang's b+2, Baek's b+2 knocks down on regular hit. Unlike Hwoarang's b+2, this does not give anything special on CH. Punishable at -10, high, but takes a big sidestep to the left. A great way to cut through some pressure and give yourself some breathing room (get it? Cut? With his hand?). Hits rather high too, so it can be crushed rather easily.

- b+3: iFLA transition, takes a HUGE SSR. Combine with manual SSR for great results. Only homing moves can catch this. In most cases you should be fishing with this after safe pokes so that you can step retaliations and get to their back and ruin their Christmas.

- b+4(safe mid CH launching, W! tool that tracks): Safe mid that W!'s. This doesn't have the best hitbox, however (it looks like it has more range than it actually does). But hey, it's safe and it W!'s, so can't really whine about that. Also it tracks to his left (against SSR) like whoa. This now launches on CH, and since it's safe (and mid), it's a kind of a buff. Usable right at the tip as a CH bait tool. Launches FDFA, b+1 will B! if the launch was off axis to your left (ie they SSR and got CH'd) then you can TA to flip them over, else go into solo BT launch combos.
SETUP: On P1, after a blocked uf+2 or ff+3, b+4 cannot be avoided because it will catch BD and will track to Baek's left (which is the only way they can step this move). They can beat it out, however 4 will beat any opponent trying to beat this out.

- ub+4: FALCON KICK! -13 on block, good at long range, but it doesn't have the best of range. Evades some highs, but I wouldn't use it to crush an electric by any means. Tracking is pretty bad.

- u+4,3: Only good as a TA filler (hits after no more than 4 hits). Just forget this move. Don't use it. Abysmal range for something that slow and high. It's cool that it launches, but how can you ever hit someone with this garbage? It does W! for a little over 50 damage, but that's the only pro of this move.

- u+3+4: Situational move at best. u+3+4 has trash tracking, is slow and hits super high. However some good things about this move is that it's a taggable launcher when Hwoarang's your team partner, the GREAT combo they have does a lot of damage, and it's a lot of + on block (though the pushback kinda resets the pace) and the hit stun has changed from T6, and thus ff+4,3 combo from this is really easy and leads to a lot of damage. u+3+4~f is cancel into FLA, while u+3+4~b is just a spinny (almost like a taunt, which is cool).

- uf+2: It bounds (his strongest B! move). It gives +4 OC on block (same on hit), and on CH gives a free d+2 which can break floors. It sounds like a good move, until you realize that it's hitbox is very high, it's range is abysmal, it's slow, and it tracks for garbage. Maybe you can do something with it at the wall, but I don't know.

- uf+3,4,3: Hunting Hawk. This move is solely a combo move. It's hitbox is so wonky in the open field that if a mid-small character is just standing the first hit is blocked, and the second one more often than not goes over their head. It B!'s and is actually a very consistent move in juggles. It's his primary TA filler. It hits after a lot of hits into W!. On Kuma it B!'s at a W!.
Interesting fact: If you neutral guard after blocking the first hit, the second and third one connect.
Interesting fact 2: uf+3,4, d+4,4 is a combo.

- uf+4: Hopekick. 20 frames, mid, does a little bit more damage than standard hopkick, -13. High hitbox (Bryan's Snake Edge will go under it).

- ff+3: A bit slow, but in general this move is great. Outside of tracking, this move does everything else. It moves in, it's safe on block, it's a launcher, it's a B! move, it hits really low, and in certain situations it hits grounded. A great raw tag punisher for safety purposes.

- ff+4,3 (quick safe tracking move): ERMEHGERD I LOVE THIS MOVE! It's the thing Baek has lacked since his meeting the SS system in Tag 1, a quick mid that tracks. ff+4 is amazing. It requires a bit of execution to be able to do it at i18 in the open and i16 buffered from a move, but it's doable. It knocks down for some serious oki options (d+2 is actually a viable option). It's got great range too. The only problem is that it's mh, it doesn't jail and it's not HC (you're committing to the extension). But still, a great move. I would highly recommend using ff+4.
Interesting fact: ff+4,3 on a side turned opponent floats for a combo (jab floats into another ff+4,3).

- bb+2: It's a pimp backhand that looks exactly like the second hit of 2,2, but the properties are all different. It stuns on normal hit (like you would expect a pimp backhand to be), it's safe (like you would expect a pimp backhand to be), and it tracks pretty well to his right (like you would expect a pimp backhand to be). However, it all sounds good on paper, but one MAIN weakness is that this move has pretty trash range. Combined with the fact that it's a bb move, which means you're going farther behind than you really need to, it's not that useful. It's also high, which kinda sucks.

- bb+3+4: It's one of the higher damaging unblockable moves in the game (damage over half life). This move hits high (pretty silly; it should hit mid IMO), is slow (66 frames) and cannot be used as a bait like db+3+4 can, because it cannot be cancelled. However, if you can use it in combos (and some combo makes have, like STL and Marin), it does a LOT of damage (even if it gets scaled hellaciously, it still does over 30 damage on average). It W!'s (no followup possible on regular wall, but on balcony break you can combo off of it) and breaks walls (I have only seen it once for that purpose, and it was in Marin's combo video). It recovers a bit too slow, which is another problem I have with it. Use it VERY RARELY (I have hit a high level player with it once).
Interesting fact: It low crushes. REALLY LATE (I'm guessing around halfway into the animation), but it does.

- CD+3: This is Baek's skyrocket. It's i18 at fastest, hits mid, and launches SUPER high. It's also tag bufferable. It's -17 on block, which is a LOT. However, in TTT2, unlike T6 in which I would say on block it sucked them in, CD+3 has hella pushback. It's still death on block, but now the death is more character specific; some characters with shitty launchers can't launch it (like Steve, Rolex, King etc).

- WS 1,3: See df+1,3.
NOTE: Unlike df+1 which is -1 on block, WS 1 is -2 on block, but unlike df+1 which is +6 on hit, WS 1 is +9 on hit.

- WS 2,1(great for when you ducked something and quickly wanted to launch): Baek's version of Twin Pistons (more comparable to Kazuya df+1,2 though :/ ). It's i15, bounds instantly. Solo he gets about 60 damage (don't hope to get anywhere near half life without walls) because of early bound and the damage on the WS 2,1 isn't a whole lot, but hey, can't complain; some characters don't even have a WS launcher (coughHwoarangcough). TA might get you over 80 with the right tag partner. HC able (and you should HC it because WS 2,1 is -12 on block, but the HC is very difficult so if you can't hitconfirm it it's best to just use it as a punisher).

- WS 3: I really see no application in this move. It hits high, is i16, and goes into same strings as his standing 3 strings (except that the first hit from the standing 3 his gone). One thing to note that WS 3,4,4 is NC (need to test). I don't see where you can apply it ever. One thing is that WS 3,3,3~f is new to TTT2, but again, it's pretty eh (on hit it's only +3 on perfect execution).
WS 3~f however, is awesome. WS 3~f is WS 3 cancelled into FLA. An oldschool setup by FilthieRich is uf,n, WS 3~f+2+3. It just looks confusing, which more often than not will make the opponent go, "WTF is going on?", allowing for free grab. Out of WD, this thing is just AWESOME for trying to lock an opponent down with hesitation, allowing you to run your game in a sick fashion.
Interesting fact: Not gameplay related, but whenever the crowd sees WS 3~f+2+3, they cheer for some funny reason, so if you're a person who loves flash, this move is for you.

- WS 3+4: It may look like the same thing as WS 3 (and it does too), however it W!'s. However, unlike WS 3 which is safe, WS 3+4 is -16 (with a little pushback). Definitely use with caution. I can see it being used as a jab punisher if you duck it (EG after a blocked b+4, duck the jab or high the opponent may throw out in retaliation, and then WS 3+4 W!), but it's a bit risky. I don't use it, but if you want to, more power to you.

More moves below

Last edited by Budding Fighter on Feb 21st, 2014 at 22:20

Budding Fighter
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#3 “Quote” Edit Post
2) Movelist breakdown CONTINUED

- WS 4 (can use this as one of those run-up moves): The good old WS 4. WS 4 by itself isn't all that useful because of the lag it has on whiff, and its hitbox isn't the lowest (ie no WS 4 float combos with him, no easy ones anyway). WS 4,4 I tend to use solely as a punisher now. WS 4,4 was (and still is), HCable into WS 4,4,3~f into mixups, but since it gives only +3 now compared to the +6 or something in previous game, the FLA transition isn't worth it IMO. WS 4 can be used to approach via wavedash into WS 4 HC WS 4,4,3~f into FLA mixups, but it's definitely outshined by ff+4 and FLA WD.
The WS 4,4 enders are the same as f+4 enders (as in WS 4,4,3 and WS 4,4,4). WS 4,4 is -3 on hit.
WARNING: You absolutely have to hit confirm WS 4,4 since it's launch punishable on it's own (similar to Mishima WS 4,4) and there's no excuse why you shouldn't because it's the easiest HC in the world (up there with Mishima 1,1,2 as the easiest hit confirm in the game).
WARNING 2: There are instances where you hit WS 4 and HC into WS 4,4 but the second one whiffs.

- SS 3 (long ranged low): An unused move amongst Baek players, and I can see why. It's out of a SS, it's slow (and since it's out of a SS it's even slower), and doesn't crush. However unlike a majority of his lows, this low is only -12 on block (pretty safe) and is +4 on hit (good + frames for a low that is this safe). I would love to see this improved by changing the input so as to make it a move possible to do in his standing game. Hits grounded.
This move is a GREAT tool to use in his wall game, however, especially if you use it in your sidestep game (SS looking for a whiff to punish with b+4, else just SS 3 to get chip dmg and + frames).
Also this low has GREAT range (more so if you do SSL 3) so it's a good way to come in.

- SS 3+4: This move is good. Most of the time when you're playing as Baek, you're fishing for a b+3 so you can get to someone's back and FLA 3,4,4,4 and ruin their Christmas, but against some characters (EG Jinpachi) b+3 is really risky because they have moves like Jinpachi df+1+2 which is safe, tracks both ways and launches, and since you can't block in FLA it's risky business. Also, some characters should be SSL'd (EG Mishimas, Baek himself and Miguel among others), and b+3 becomes a bit obsolete in that situation. This is where this move comes in. It's a SS launcher. It's relatively quick (faster than SS 3), does really solid damage, and is tag bufferable. It also low crushes but it's not something you should use this move for, since it is -14 on block. It is 3 hits (mhh), and there are times where the last hit or the middle hit will sometimes whiff. It jails however.

- b+1+2: This parries all mid and high punches. Parry window lasts from frame 2 to frame 10. Now that FLA super sidestep is gone (most players miss it; I don't), this is your defensive option from FLA, EG you do 4,3,3~f and the opponent blocks it (and don't duck the second hit). If you expect opponent to jab afterwards (try for a Lee 2,2,3 or something), you can use this and punish that attempt. b+1+2 has a canned extension with 3. The problem with this is that you have to commit to the 3 (you can't delay the input to see if you parried). The 3 does pretty damn strong damage (45 on natural hit, 60+ with rage) and wallsplats from a FAR distance. However, punch parry gives +12, so don't always commit to the extension and experiment (my personal favourite is to PP and then db+1+3 to get the oki followups) unless of course a wall is near.
PP can be used to make stuff going into FLA safe (but only against punch retaliations), eg FLA 3,3~f, db+3,3~f, 1,2,3~f etc. I wish it parried punches and kicks (it'd be similar to Law DSS parry); maybe to compensate for that they could weaken the followup or something; it'd really make FLA pressure safer (which would be really welcome).
Also, this is a great tag cancel against Mishimas and Jacks (for they punish raw tag with punch moves primarily).

- iWR 3: Standard slash kick, except not really. You can cancel it into FLA. You can't really attack immediately after iWR 3~f as there's a little lag time (and if the opponent predicts it, you're getting launched), but if your opponent expects to block a slash kick, the feint into FLA will confuse them.

- uf,n,3: This set of moves is almost entirely useless. The only use there is for this is for TA when you B! early (EG Jack-6 df+2, 2, ff+1~5 Baek uf,n,3,3,3~f 3+4~f 1+2,4, J6 b+3,2,2). It does a lot of damage then and goes into standing 3 strings (with the exception of uf,n,3,4 which looks like something from T2).

Flamingo Moves

Special note: With this exception of u+4,3, u+3+4 (need to test) and regular hopekick, and moves that use these inputs in the open, every other move is doable in FLA (EG Baek can do 4,3,3~f and then standard df+2).
Special note 2: What is interesting is that FLA specific moves (like f+3) can be done instantaneously by doing b+3~f+3 etc, but other non FLA specfic moves cannot be done like that; there's a recovery window before the move occurs.

Before I continue, I would like people to realize that flamingo stance pressure is something that is a very much advanced tactic, and not something that should be on your mind when you're just starting with the character. If you feel like you have a decent grasp of the character, then and then only should you implement flamingo into your game.

- 3: FLA 3 is standard i15 mid poke in FLA. It's not as strong as it used to be, because of the loss of tracking. FLA 3,3,4 is mhh, FLA 3,3,d+4 is mhl, FLA 3,4,4 is mhh and goes into f+4 enders. FLA 3,3~f is a new cancel to TTT2 and is one of the primary reasons his FLA rushdown is so much better. It's a mid from FLA right back into FLA (something he never had before), which allows stronger rushdown than it ever has been. FLA 3,4,4,4 (I call this Ruin-The-Christmas) makes BT cry because it does like 100000 damage (realistically only in the 70's but that's still pretty rough) and it launches for a WS 2,1 or a CC 4,3,3~f 3+4~f FLA b+3 B! (one of the main reasons why fishing for triple SSR is so important).

- f+3: Flamingo Rocket. This move is so good in this game. It's i19, tracks almost 100%, 0 on block (with a decent amount of pushback), and reaches like BS. Also, new to TTT2 is that it launches on CH (similar to Kazuya CH df+2 EWGF in the sense that it gives + on CH; +19 to be exact); df+3~f to continue combo. It's a strong option near walls to fish for a W! while in FLA pressure strings. Used in FLA pressure to track reliably and fast, and during double db+3,3~f oki as a 'tech catch' (not unblockable, but opponent is forced to block it).On block you can hold B and step backwards to avoid retaliation of almost any sort (except for long reaching moves which you can usually interrupt with magic 4 anyway).

- b+3: Another axe kick. This is -1 OC on block (better than 0 on block, considering the range it leaves you at - you can certainly BD_SS any retaliation and put a foot in their face if they act silly)and B!'s in the air. Its tracking is amazing (credit: CaCarmen), which makes it a great move to use while in FLA to restrict the opponent's movement if you don't want to risk FLA f+3 getting CH or getting it blocked and having to deal with the mixup. It's one of his weaker B! moves however. It's only +2 OC on hit, which doesn't sound super awesome, but on CH it KND's (which means free raw tag) and gives strong oki followups (dash 4,3,3~f floats quickrise and backroll while d+3_d+2 to hit on the ground). Not a top 10 move, but certainly usable.

- f+4: This is a severely underrated move IMO. It looks ugly and is high with not a lot of tracking, yes, but it's useable because on block it gives MASSIVE pushback and is safe. Also does pretty huge damage on regular hit (the stun is backrollable else dash CD+3 is free) making it a decent combo ender should df+3+4 not be an option. It's also one of his stronger W! moves. If they do anything silly on block (works best at max range against Dragunov because it looks punishable and they try f+1+2 against it sometimes) you can do another one to whiff punish and put your foot in their face .

- uf+3: Flamingo Jaw Breaker (LOL). This move is an awesome whiff punisher. It works best in scenarios when you want to SSR something but it's not a string so most of the time you can't get to an opponent's back and do Ruin-The-Christmas. Some notable examples I can think of are King's 1+2,1_3 (you can SSR against the followups, but Baek can't b+3 to King's back, so you can b+3 to avoid the followup and then FLA uf+3 to whiff punish). It's also taggable, so it's good for wall carry situations and as a whiff punisher. Be careful though, since it's -14 (pain arriving if opponent blocks it against pretty much anyone) so definitely not something that's abuseable. This is your hopekick in FLA, so you can use it if down jab incoming.

- b+3+4: More for show than anything IMHO. This is a special low parry in FLA. It parries from frame 1-25 (noticeably larger than standard df low parry). I don't know if you can get CH through this (it'd suck if you can), so if it isn't, it's good against Dragunov's who see you move in FLA and mindlessly throw out 1,2,1 (i10 CH combo that does retarded damage and W!'s; the last hit is -12 and only guaranteed if the first one hits on CH). Like regular low parry, you can't parry knees (Marduk d+4), heads (Feng qcf+1), tails (Rolex db+3) and elbows (don't know a low elbow move sadly ) with it. Almost entirely replaceable by FLA uf+3 for it's purpose of avoiding lows and duckjabs in FLA, but it's useable (more for show than anything as I said before) on occasion if you don't feel like YOLO'ing (ie committing) to FLA uf+3.

I don't think I've missed any moves, so if I have, please let me know.

Last edited by Budding Fighter on Aug 7th, 2014 at 09:58

Budding Fighter
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#4 “Quote” Edit Post
3) FLA cancelling - the right way
Okay, now you know a lot about Baek's movelist. Where do you go from here?
You may not know this, but Baek can cancel almost all of his moves into Flamingo Stance (his b+3 stance). However, there is a time where, if you hit the forward_back really early, you're standing there, holding your leg up, BEGGING to be CH. So you need to practice cancelling moves into FLA.

The notation of, say a 4,3,3 cancelled into df+1, is 4,3,3~f,df+1. But, you need to hit the forward in the last 6 frames on the kick. The earlier the better, because that way you make the move come out faster rather than just stand there with one leg up.
Too early on the forward_back and you end up standing like a duck, and too late and you've given up the frame advantage you could've got if you had cancelled early.
It's something you can visually do better, since the timing of all transitions is different (much like Marshall Law's DSS).

It's easier from 1,2,3 than it is from moves like f+4,3. This is because in 1,2,3~f, the frames between the impact of the 2 and 3 are not a lot compared to the frames between f+4 and 3 in f+4,3.

In the end, I can't really give a whole lot of pointers other than that it requires quite a lot of practice (especially when trying to max out the + frames into the attacks), but it's really necessary when you're playing as Baek. Do lots of practice, and use it in matches, and in no time you'll be doing highly difficult setups and high damage combos.

Now you know how to do it. Now to know when to do it is one of the things you will learn only with experience with Baek.
I will talk about the moves Baek has that cancel into the mid 3 kick ender (ie df+4,4,3, f+4,3 etc) a bit more later on, as they're a bit more specific in their use.

All the moves that are cancellable into FLA (df+1,3 and df+3 you can go sit in the back for now), have a hit that is either high (FLA 3,3), or steppable (the 3 ender), or punishable (3 ender). Basically the opponent should be looking for the ender. So if you think they are looking for the ender and not looking for the FLA cancel (which is interruptable on block) you can cancel the move into FLA and confuse them and mix them up.
If you think the opponent is looking to interrupt the FLA cancel, you can let the move loose and hit them for some chip damage (unless it's the 3 ender).

As for the 3 enders (not applicable to d+4,3,3), this is the metagame.
They can interrupt everything with a downjab, or just a jab, but the 4 ender will crush jabs. If they down jab, unless the last hit was punishable (as in d+4,3,3 which is -17 on block), you can low parry down jabs. They can SWL~LP anything you might want to do offensively, but you always have the option to block and not hit any buttons, so as to regain the mental advantage from the opponent. If they use an anti-Baek move in that case, like Chreddy b+2, you can always punch parry it, either by cancelling into flamingo, or just not attempting the enders.

3+4~f repeatedly in combos:
Lots of kids on the forum ask how to do 3+4 repeatedly in combos. This is how:
How to do 3+4 repeatedly in combos, video courtesy of Marin

The notation is: 3+4~f, HOLD 3, n+4~f and so on.
Little history session: In Tekken Tag when iFLA cancel actually required skill, this is how you did pretty much every move that was not a move that you did with a 3 button.

Sweet-little-cookie:
When you go into FLA by 2,3, if you let yourself return to neutral, inputting f+3 will give you ff+3, entering f+4 will give you ff+4, b+2 will give you bb+2 and b+3+4 gives bb+3+4. Not extremely important, because staying in FLA means you can't block and by cancelling manually you can't block for a LONG time, but something you can keep in mind for the lulz/combo videos.

Last edited by Budding Fighter on Sep 7th, 2013 at 04:32

Budding Fighter
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#5 “Quote” Edit Post
4) FLA SS
With the buff-up sidestepping in general has got, Baek has it easier than the rest of the cast with SSing most of people's stuff. I say this because he has what we Baekers (bakers? Baekers? Not funny? Damn.) call TRIPLE SIDESTEP (dun-dun-dun).
Basically, to put it in notation, it's
SSR, b+3, SSR
This works because b+3 has a little SSR of it's own. Fire up your PS3's (Xbox = ass) and check it out in practice mode.

Cool, huh?

This grants Baek some serious damage opportunities. Maybe your opponent is playing quite stringy and isn't caring about throwing in HomingAttacks at all. Maybe you're caught in a rushdown and want a way out. Maybe you're facing wall pressure and the opponent is Steve with rage (even though Steve tracks really well, it's still an option). Guess what you will use?
TRIPLE FLAMINGO SIDESTEP! (dun-dun-dun)

To get the best out of the FLA SS, you need to cancel your SSR right at the point when Baek stops. Since SS's are very cancellable, they're kinda like backdashes in which the most distance must be covered in the least amount of time.

Some of the BT launcher strings he has are:
1. FLA 3,4,4,4 (requires CC 4,3,3~f combos or WS 2,1 B! straight away)
2. d+3,3,n+3 (~5)

You should not be using FLA SS out in the open at all (ie right outside of range 1), as the opponent can see it and then kill you for it (you'll be in FLA at that time, and any hit on you is a CH). This is mostly used as Leo's manual BOK transition, or Xiaoyu's SSR~AOP, in that it's used for evasion purposes.
Using the FLA SS can be used to deal massive damage with BT combos. More info on that is in the combo threads.

FLA SS also has purposes other than from a defensive standpoint. Suppose you're pressuring someone with a lot of db+3,3~f's, FLA 3,3~f's or whatever you might choose to do. If you know your opponent's getting frustrated, you can just go for 1,2,3~D for a FLA SS, and laugh as his retaliations whiff (think of it as a buffed up SS in that area: 1,2, SS's big brother) and launch them with a simple df+2 or whatever is it you might want to do).

Also, Baek has the option to go straight into b+3 state from 4,3,3~f and 3+4~f. The notation is [3]f~b+4 ie, eg say Baek does 4,3,3~f, you hold 3, tap forward, and then while holding 3, hit b+4. This is called Flamingo Super Sidestep. It's useful in some situations, but not something you should be basing your game around, IMO, espeically since those two moves are the only moves that can go into super sidestep.

Warning: Do note however that there are some characters against whom FLA SS is not worth the risk. I discuss those characters in the matchup thread, but just as an overall thing:
- Craig Marduk (his df+1 kills this for free)
- Miguel (his df+1 kill this for free)
- Mishimas (EWGF kills this)
I'm sure I'm missing some characters, but overall, I'd suggest really not going for FLA SS on these characters because their tracking options are going to kill FLA SS and it might not be worth the risk, seeing as your chances to succeed will be limited.

Last edited by Budding Fighter on Jan 9th, 2014 at 02:05

Budding Fighter
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#6 “Quote” Edit Post
5) NoodleHead's Side Dish Guide

Originally posted by NoodleHead
Baeked Potato as Side Dish ? The Unconventional Baek Guide


Level: Intermediate ? Advanced.


Disclaimer:
This thread is served as the side dish of Baek?s existing strat. By no means should it be used alone. For more information on the ?main course,? please refer to Baek?s T5: DR guide.


We don't have a T5: DR guide, so, yeah. The equivalent of it is this.
Originally posted by NoodleHead
Introduction:
Despite having one of the shortest move lists, Baek is not a character for beginners. In the higher level play, Baek relies on many setups that involve swift FLA cancels. Baek?s FLA cancels are used in many places, such as juggles, pokes, as well as mix-ups.

?No shit. We already know that. So what is the purpose of this guide?? you say.

Well? this guide will show you how to do mix-up? in a brand new level.


Index
-Chapter I: Take guarantees first, and use deceptions second.
-Chapter II: Amplify your opponents? bad-habits.
-Chapter III: The deception: the setups, the mindsets, and the applications.


Noodle?s note: I have played Baek with completely different styles in several stages of my Baek?s lifetime. I have gone from purely aggressive FLA cancel mix-up into defensive punishing/delay traps. While writing this, I am steadily evolving into a more aggressive, but somewhat unorthodox/flashy FLA style. I am writing this guide because I want not only me, but everyone else appreciates the extreme freedom of Baek?s gameplay.


Before you read any further, make sure?
-You are able to iFLA cancel consistently from any moves.
-You have a good understanding with how to use a basic Baek, i.e. pokes, force blocks, okizeme, etc.
-You are familiar with my Baek?s Basic FLA Looping Guide
-You don?t mind playing Baek in a slightly risky path.


Good luck.


Good luck, you'll need it.

Originally posted by NoodleHead
Chapter I: Take guarantees first, and use deceptions second.

Baek is all about deceptions. However, to be successfully deceptive for your opponent, you have to do so while they are ?passively defensive.? There are several situations of such would occur:

1. Opponent finishes a safe move, but with noticeable recovery time. (bs -5~-7)
2. Opponent is punished several times in a row.
3. Opponent is by the wall, after few failed attack attempt.
4. You have shut down opponent?s pace with careful poking and setups.
?etc.

Among the situation listed, ?opponent is punished several times in a row? takes the least effort, but is the most effective. So before starting the game of deception, make sure to punish your opponent for half a round or more. Doing so will make your opponent cautious, thus fall into your pace.

Keep in mind that the game of deception is the worst against an opponent who is actively defensive. Against such with deception will have you severely punished to no end. Hence, punish first to get rid of such resistance, and then deceive your opponent carefully.

Here is the list of various good Baek?s punishers: (frame data taken from TZ)


Low jab parry: +12. Low kick parry: +16. Punch parry: +12.

1,1 (i10)
2,2 (i10)
ws+4,4 (i11)
d/f+4,4 (i12)
CH d+4,3,3 (i12)
f+1+2,4 (i14)
d/f+2 (i15)
b+4 (i16)
ws+3,4,4 (i16)
d+3,3 (i16. Do one kick only if u want to use it as a pseudo frame trap)
u/f~3+4~f (i16. If done w/o u/f~, then i17)
u/f+4 (i20)
d/f+3 (i22, used as a mid range whiff punisher only)

For more information, please check CD-DT's Punishment Guide.


Low parries don't give frames anymore, they give a B!. So, you'll have to do your low parry juggle, which are pretty decent IMO.
The jump cancel version of 3+4 does not exist anymore to the best of my knowledge. Also, d+3,3 and df+4,4 are not NC anymore, they're NCc.
Also, that punishment guide doesn't apply to TTT2. So you're better off not looking at it. No offense.

Originally posted by NoodleHead
Summary: If you see your opponent has bad block recovery or whiff, PUNISH, PUNISH, PUNISH!!! Once your opponent becomes passively defensive, the tide is yours!


This is how any smart player tries to start their offense. Are you smart?

Thought so.

Originally posted by NoodleHead
Chapter II: Amplify your opponents? bad-habits.

Everyone has bad habits. The only difference is how well they prevent those bad habits happen during the match. This is said, in a game that emphasizes in punishing, the one with fewer bad habits tend to win the match. To increase your likelihood of winning, not only it?s essential to reduce your own bad habits, but also expose your opponents?. There are several ways to expose your opponents? bad habits?

1. Take control of the pace, and play with the style your opponent hate the most.
2. Spend the first round looking at your opponents? attack patterns, if there is any.
3. Test your opponent?s reaction by doing repeat strings, and STOP DOING SO when the purpose is served.
?etc.

More detail below:

1. Take control of the pace, and play with the style your opponent hate the most.
Study your opponent?s fighting style and what style they have the most difficulty against. If your opponent is the hasty type, be actively defensive and learn the crush options against his patterns. If your opponent is the active turtle type, strike them with force blocks and careful poking in order to break them down. If your opponent is side-step happy, see his ss pattern between jabs carefully, and punish accordingly. If your opponent is the custom-string type, keep a good distance and juggle them when they come close.

2. Spend the first round looking at your opponents? attack patterns, if there is any.
Against the opponent that you have never played, it?s important to get used to his attack style as soon as possible. Spend a good first round observing his attack pattern carefully, and then device a strategy against their flaw. Observing your opponent does not necessarily mean to throw the round. In fact, it?s usually the case that you can test our your anti strategy against his/her attack patterns.

3. Test your opponent?s reaction by doing repeat strings, and STOP DOING SO when the purpose is served. *The Juice of the Chapter*
Doing conventional poke strings, kick strings, or big damage attacks might seem masterful in the eyes of scrubs. However, they are risky against the advanced players. Nevertheless, knowing how well your opponent knows to punish Baek allows you to play their knowledge against themselves. Here are some good examples:

1,2,3~f : This is a good string to make your opponent ?learn? that d+1_d+2 is good against your poke string. The chance is, your opponents will d+1_d+2 after you use them a few times. If they do so, STOP.

d+4,3,3,3: This is a good string to make your opponent learn that the last kick should be ss?ed. However, it?s unavoidable to eat a launcher afterward, so after you did d+4,3,3,3 the first time, use d+4,3,3 instead to see your opponent?s response whether they side step on the invisible last kick. If not, repeat until they do so. (Otherwise, you can exploit their lack of side stepping with easy FLA cancel games I shared few months ago.)

wd_cd+3: Baek?s class1 launcher. Doing it a few times as high crush will make your opponent aware and become defensive the next time when you approach with cd_wd motion. cd~ws+4,4 would also do the job, but not as well due to much less damage it delivers compared to the potential of cd+3.

d/f+1: OMG. This move is good in so many situations. It?s a mid poke, safe mid FLA mix-up ender, juggle starters on stun and standing from SLD (fd, fa). On block, your opponent will try anything possible, but they tend to follow certain patterns. Those who do standing-jabs will continue standing-jab post block for a few times, and those who d+1_d+2 would continue doing so as well. It?s also common to see the opponent does d/f+2 for the safe launcher, or even u/f+4 if they are crazy. Once you realized your opponent?s pattern post d/f+1 on block, plan the next step?


The bad part about df+1 is that it doesn't give + on block anymore. That's a bit sad, but yeah. -1 on block isn't that bad either, and is actually great for baiting people into attacks.

Originally posted by NoodleHead
Summary: Observe your opponent?s bad habits. If they don?t have enough of them for you to take advantage, train them doing so as instructed.


Originally posted by NoodleHead
Chapter III: The deception: the setups, the mindsets, and the applications.

First thing first: It?s only deception if it?s a surprise. DO NOT, and again, DO NOT ABUSE IT.

In my opinion, the best part of the deception is not the massive amount of the damage it inflicts onto your opponent when works, but its existence that makes the deception-related moves safer from being punished due to the confusion factor.


3-1: Retaliation against bad habits:

By following the first two chapters into your play, you should have your opponent trained to attack cautiously (Ch. I), and waiting for your mistakes (Ch. II). This creates an opportunity for you to do the most part of the offense, as well as to set up your anti against his/her anti.

This section will cover the deceptions of the moves mentioned before:

1,2,3~f ? Opponent d+1_d+2
d+4,3,3 ? opponent side steps
wd_cd+3 ? opponent blocks and waits for punish
d/f+1 ? opponent retaliates



Details below:

1,2,3~f:
By now your opponent should be doing d+1_d+2 whenever you cancel your 1,2 into flamingo, and this is where 1,2,3~d_u shines. There are not many people aware the fact that the side-stepped flamingo version (d_u) can easily ss against opponent?s d+1, d+2, or even 1,2 jabs. This is true even when you ssr against their standing left jabs. If you are very sure your opponent will low jab you right the way, then you should have 1,2,3~d_u FLA b+4 ready. If your opponent does not have the fastest reflex, then 1,2,3~d 1,2,3~d into b+4. Finally, if you want to play safe, 1,2,3~ssr fla d/f+4,4 is good, and 1,2,3~ssr into b+1 will evade almost everything. On another note, u can also ssl and use b+2. Do make sure to hit opp w/ this move from the side. If opp is hit from the side w/ CH, u can proceed w/ another b+2 into an unescapable b+4 juggle launcher.

Result: b+4 juggle into a good 35%+ off juggle, and your opponent will be wary of d+1 Baek?s FLA again.


b+4 isn't a launcher anymore. FLA uf+3 is a strong, but risky red-life launcher, because FLA uf+3 is -14 on block.

Originally posted by NoodleHead
d+4,3,3, or any strings that ends with straight kick:
Your opponent should be side stepping the last kicks of every Baek?s strings. If not, then follow the FLA looping guide posted here. If you notice opponent starts side stepping, you should refrain yourself from finishing the whole string, but end with d+4,3 or d+4,3,3. While opponent is side stepping, you have many options. You can realign your opponent and grab, d/f+1 or move that tracks, or d+4,3,3 against opponent who you know do not have ss into low crush options.

Result: It will make your opponent much more defensive than they should have, making FLA throws much easier to land, though less likely to connect.(more likely to escape) In addition, they will probably side step less often. If this is the case, follow the FLA Looping strat for 1 loop at most, and end the string before the straight kick (no 3).


wd_cd+3:
This is the part where your opponent would prefer being defensive in fear of being class1 juggled. Wd_cd~ws+3~f_b_u_d becomes one of the most mind-fucking experience for your opponent. When your opponent is waiting for the move that never showed, instead with a FLA right in the face, this causes a brief-period of brain-fart. During this period, slower or obvious moves such as d/b+4, FLA throw, d/b+3,3, or an extra d/f+3~f become quite effective.

Update: against opponent who would jab you to nullify your mixups, cd_wd~ws+3~d_u will side step most of the linear attacks for guaranteed launchers.

Result: Opponent will become side step-happy. Snake dash to apply the mental pressure, making them even less aggressive, or wd_cd~fc d+3,3 to score chip damage.


I say go with WD anyway, because Baek can't really snake dash; however, Baek's SS options are good too, since SS 3+4 is taggable (?). Also, CD~fc+3 is the way to go, since d+3,3 is only NCc now.

Originally posted by NoodleHead
d/f+1
Several retaliations will be discussed below:

Against standing jabbers: bdc into cd+3
Against d+1er?s: bdc into 1+2,4_b+4
Against u/f+4: On block, 1,1_2,2_1,2 into FLA or string. On whiff, d/f+2, or 1+2,4
Against 10 framer: 4 for the CH launcher, or d+4,3,3 for the CH bait.

Result: Makes your opponent defensive, thus allowing yourself playing aggressively.


There's no such thing as a '10 framer' anymore.
Since you're -1, movement is still an option. However, we also now have an option of finishing the string, df+1,3. It is an option for more mindgames, because they could be anticipating the second hit and ducking, and you could CD+3 them into lots of lulz. Or you could finish the string for a +7 into those mix-ups I've mentioned at the start of the thread.
However, following rule 1 of FLA, (Any move out of FLA is a good move), you can do pretty much anything to your liking after a df+1,3 on hit.

Originally posted by NoodleHead
3-2: Extra d/f+3~f_d_u study:

Speed is the key? or is it?

Many people consider speed as the most important aspect for the offensive play. However, some took it into extreme and consider it the ONLY way of the offensive play. Speed is indeed important, but only when the damage is guaranteed. When the damage is not guaranteed, then a more confusing tactic with lesser speed will have a much stronger impact to your opponent than the fast but predictable jabs.

From the FLA cancel strat I made a while ago, you learn how to improve your odds to safely FLA cancel into looping. However, once you are back in FLA, you are not guaranteed with any follow-ups. Many of Baek players (including old me alike) would immediately attack with mid or low options, in hope opponent will be panic and do something stupid?

Chances are, the opponent would not do something stupid, but would instead wait to punish you ?accordingly.? So let?s say, you spice the game up with something completely out of their mind...

Here is where the d/f+3~f comes into play. Sure, you SHOULD NOT DO IT EVERY SINGLE TIME, but if you do it when your opponent least expected, it will send him/her into a briefly confused state. This is similar to the situation of cd~ws+3~f madness, where it does not seem to make sense. In actual test against several opponents of mine, instead of having them jabbing me out of FLA, it actually slows down their reflex. Moves such as d/b+4, FLA throw, d/b+3,3 again become very useful here to catch off-guard opponent.

Update: an extra FLA d/f+3 against opp being actively defensive is still possible. Since opp would mostlikely to jab you or do quick attacks, the d/f+3~u_d will evade anything possible (except ss tracking attacks) and grant u a guaranteed FLA b+4 (standing or low jab whiff) or d/b+4. (against longer strings.)


Originally posted by NoodleHead
3-3: Other side-dish worthy and applications:

f,f,n~3~f:
It serves as a great mind-fucker against opponent standing up from the floor in mid/long distance. If the distance is still a bit too far away, an extra FLA step will work just as fine.

(An idea that needs to find a setup starter?) When working in mid distance against a cautious opponent, it?s possible to bait him into jabbing you. FLA side step during his jab will earn you a guaranteed b+4.

u/f~n~ws+3~f:
Filthy?s famous hopping fake-out. Use it once a while and I ensure you it will score an easy FLA throw due to the confusing factors of multiple animations.

d/f+3:
By itself the move is decent, but when u combined w/ a mastered FLA WD control, this move is brokenly good. Learn how to control the FLA WD as well as ur opponents' range, and once u add the d/f+3 into play, u will be making ur opponent eating CH d/f+3 ALL DAY.


Summary: Punish opponent who followed your pattern, and use extra d/f+3~f when your opponent least expects. When the grounded opponent is standing up around mid to long range, use f,f~n+3~f_d/f+3~fx2.




Well, this is it for now, but I will update the last chapter when I come back from the trip. In the mean time, try them out, and have fun Baek?ing. Any suggestions on the guide would be greatly appreciated. (Also, I might post the FLA cancel thread here if u guys prefer it... in another chapter or something like that)



Special thanks to:
AV Kazama ? for discussing some of the Baek?s flaws with me, as well as my Baek?s transformation.
Filthy ? for sharing many baiting strategies with me, as well as influencing me back to a more aggressive Baek player.
Ironzen ? for finding many weaknesses of Baek when sparring with me, and being the best turtler around my area.
KuraiRyu and SpartaMA ? for being my frequent sparring partners and the unknowing test-object for my on-going side dish strat.
CD-DT - for the complete punishment list.
Sinjin ? for pushing me into playing Baek very differently from the defensive, boring play.
Castel ? for providing TZ and the frame data.
Namco ? for making DR a decently balanced game.

And everyone who contributed Baek strat. thread. Cannot do it without you guys!

-nood-


Credit to noodlehead for this guide too. Go send him hate mail for the switch already!

Last edited by Budding Fighter on Sep 3rd, 2013 at 09:58

Budding Fighter
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#7 “Quote” Edit Post
6) Punishing

Standing Punishers

1. -10
- 1,1
His 2nd best punisher IMO. +7 on hit, 0 on block, jails (or I've never had the 2nd hit ducked). It's a very good panic button against Nina IMO, since she'll try and keep you at less + frames than other.
I will recommend spamming this. Don't use it just as a punisher. It's a great poke too.
- 1,2(,3~f_d_u)
His 'best' punisher. This is the perfect balance between damage and + frames, and it puts you in FLA. If you expect jabs after this, it'll help you to cancel by d_u to make those jabs whiff and use FLA uf+3 (my favourite FLA move in combos and regular play) into nastiness.
- 2,2
His strongest 10 frame punisher; many times you can see that they'll die from it and do this and kill them with it. It's one of the strongest 10F punishers in the game. The problem with this is that it leaves him at -3, so it's no way to start an offense. You can try, but I wouldn't recommend it. This is automatically the 3rd best and technically his worst punisher, but if you know how and when to use it, it's great.
- 2,3
Technically his 'worst' -10 punisher, because the damage is really piddly (comparable to Asuka 1). However it's +7 into FLA (and this isn't cancelled +7, it's entry, which means it's not as timing based) which is a really good situation to be in. More of a poke than a punisher, but something to keep in mind.

2. -12
- 4,3,3~f
It does as much damage as 2,2, but gives +4 and mix-up opportunity (In T6 it was +6). It's high, high, so you've got to know what you're punishing.
- df+4
Baek's 12F mid. I'll only use this to test if something's -12. For eg, I go up against a player and he uses a move and I don't know how punishable it is. The next time I block it, I'll use 1,1 and if that succeeds, if he uses that move again, I'll use df+4. If that worked, I'll know it's at least -12. Purely for testing purposes.

3. -13
- df+1,3
It's great because it gives +8 on hit, but it's not HC by any means, and they can duck the second hit and you can't block (transition into FLA). It gives a lot of + unlike 4,3,3~f so you might want to look into using this if you really want to (if you're okay with sacrificing some damage).

4. -14
- 1+2,4
Baek's -14 KND punisher. It gives great oki by the wall, as described by our lovely friend and mod Marin. The only problem is that this isn't HC, and the second hit is launchable, while the first is -10.
- 3,3,3~f
New punisher in TTT2. It's high and doesn't have nearly the range that 1+2,4 does, but it gives crazy +10GB on hit. Very good if you want to rush into FLA mixups.

5. -15
- df+2
Baek's -15 launcher. It doesn't launch crouch or tech crouch moves. Range is kinda iffy too, but it seems to have phantom range, and is definitely better than Hwo's df+2.

6. -16
- b+4
For tech crouch moves. It seems to have good range. It used to be a launcher, and his best launcher in 5.0 and DR days, but now it W!. A buff for him IMO. Safe too.
- ff+4,3
Requires perfect input, but it wallsplats and does 50+ damage. Good if you can do it consistently.

7. -18
- db+2
Baek's most ranged launcher IMO (unless dash CD+3). It's a bit weak, and doesn't track well, but it's great for those moves with pushback. Too bad you can't punish Deathfist with it.

8. -19 and beyond
- CD+3 (w/ input)
This is THE launcher for Baek. It's his Skyrocket. Gives way to massive damage. Too bad it's -17 in return (however it has massive pushback). This is great for lows that stagger on block, and if you're CC'ing into this for them ON REACTION, you're doing something right. If you're ballsy and like to launch people for being stupid with their lows, this is for you. Too bad you can't punish deathfist with it.
Test people to see if they know they can launch it (with the launchers they have).
- ff+3 (w/ input...?)
This is Baek's axe kick. Not really used as a punisher, but hey, something to keep in mind against moves that recover really low (eg Lars uf+3).

While Standing Punishers
1. -10
- FC d+1
You average duck jab. +6 on hit, minuscule damage.

2. -11
- WS 4,4,3f
One of the best -11 WS punishers there is. I will put it under Steve's WS 1,2 and the Mishimas' WS 4,4 for the best -11 WS punishers. HC-able (VERY), and leads to mix-up with + frames (only +3~4 but they're in crouch).

3. -13
- WS 1,3
See df+1,3.

4. -15
- WS 2,1
At least Baek has a WS launcher (Shame on Hwo players! ). It's HC-able, and B! on hit, allowing for weaker than normal juggles, but at least it's something. If the first hit whiffs, the second will never launch/B! unless they're doing a jumping move. TA right away can get you some mass damage out of it for the cost of red life.

4. Stagger lows
- CC, CD+3
See above section on CD+3 and CD+3 in the move analysis for more info on this.

Whiff Punishing
This is subjective. I tend to use db+2 for whiff punishing because it's got great range, and no need to dash up for combo or anything. If you're close, and you want to use df+2, do so. CD+3 is his best whiff punisher, but it's very, very risky (provided your opponent has the launcher for it). ff+4,3 is great if they're close to a wall (wallsplat!) and so is b+4. ff+4,3 does more damage though, but is obviously a whole lot riskier (since if you failed to punish they could duck the second hit and launch you). FLA uf+3 and SS 3+4 are more situational whiff punish options you may want to keep in mind.

Last edited by Budding Fighter on Dec 14th, 2013 at 07:02

Budding Fighter
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Joined: Jul 2012
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#8 “Quote” Edit Post
7) Juggling

Baek has been known as one of the better jugglers/pilots ever since his return in Tekken 5 because of 3+4~f, better known as Halberd Cancels, buffing up his wall carry; at that time I believe only Julia was better than him.
However, in TTT2 several others have surpassed him in wall carrying ability. Nevertheless, Baek’s pretty damn decent in his wall carry; better than most of the cast. The people better than him IMO are probably Leo, Lee, Nina and Bruce and he's on the level of Steve, Bryan, Julia and Dragunov.
Baek’s still beasting it out when it comes to no B! wall carry though. He can carry extremely well. Not only that, he’s got a lot of decent launchers to support him, and the damage in open ground is respectable.
Here’s some of the juggles Baek can do solo. Be sure to check the combo threads which are stickied, to see a full list of the combos he can do.
These are some staples off of decent launchers. Some launchers, you’re just better off of tagging off and doing red life damage.

Air combos
A general rule of thumb you might want to keep in mind when comboing is that if Baek is able to get the opponent with his combos (ie if it is possible to fly the opponent to the wall), he can get the opponent there without B!. There are only specific scenarios (involving character sizes, launch angles and TA options) where this does not hold true. But still, with Baek your best bet is to wall carry and then B! compared to B! then wall carry.

- 4,3,3~f, FLA 3,3~f, 3+4~f, FLA b+3 B!
This is a decent staple and it does decent damage, allowing for rather small tag assaults. It has decent wall carry.
- 4,3,3~f, FLA 3,3~f, db+3,3~f, FLA 3,3~f, 3+4~f, db+2 W!
I believe this is Baek’s best wall carry. db+2 floats a decent amount. Try this out, you’ll like it.
NOTE: this is impossible on Kuma and True Ogre. This combo is consistent on everyone else, IF you can do your cancels properly.
4,3,3~f, FLA 3,3~f, 3+4~f is kind of an option select. Practice and learn the range where the double halberd into db+2 will W!, allowing for a full combo. If you realize that you’re not going to reach the wall, you can just use FLA b+3 to B! and then complete the combo accordingly.
- ff+4,3, dash 4,3,3~f FLA 3,3~f FLA b+3 B!
His hardest combo.
(NOTE: On Kuma it's a bit harder, so if you want to be safe, just do the combo without the FLA 3,3~f)
- ff+4,3, 4,3,3~f, FLA 3,3~f 3+4~f db+2
Same thing as the above wall carry combo, but with more damage and spinnies.
- ff+4,3, dash 1, f+4 B!
If you can do it, it's his best pre TA filler if you need to B! early (four hits). Really tough IMO especially from a df+2.
- ff+4,3 dash 4,3,3~f FLA b+3 B!
His most staple combo from taggable launchers such as EWGF and stuff like that (doesn't work from class 3 launchers like King FC df+2~5). Does good damage. This is also possible from a Baek df+2, but it's a lot harder.

Note: ff+4,3 combos are very hard to do after a SSR.

You can be really creative with Baek in terms of combos. Don't limit yourself to just these combos. You can do lots of stuff with him.

Sky Rocket
If you don’t want to tag off of it (I honestly don’t know why) you can do:
SSR UF+4, dash 4,3,3~f, FLA 3+4 B!
ff+4,3 dash 4,3,3~f FLA b+3 B! (the ff+4,3 takes a bit of timing to come out).

Solo B! enders
CD, n, 4,4,4 for damage
dash db+3,3~f df+3+4 for damage
dash db+3,3~f for oki (will be discussed in the next episode)
dash 4,3,3~f for wall carry
dash d+4,4 for wall carry (doesn't work after 6 hits before B!)
df+3,4 for wall positioning

Wall combos
The most consistent B! moves are FLA b+3 and ff+3. f+4 is also decent, especially if you want FLA f+3 to wall break and continue the combos (if your iFLA isn't consistent).
If your iFLA is consistent however, you can use iFLA f+3 as part of your combo even from ff+3.
Note: Wherever I've used ff+3 as B! you can also use FLA b+3, uf+2 or f+4,3~f for B! but they obviously do less damage.
Everyone:
ff+3 B!, df+3+4
ff+3 B!, f+2,1,2 for wall break.
ff+3 B!, 4,3,3~f, d+4,4
ff+3 B!, 4,3,3~f, b+4
ff+3 B!, (iFLA f+3) 4,4 for spike oki. (bracketed iFLA f+3 means that it's optional; combo is still possible without the iFLA f+3)
ff+3 B!, df+4,4 for better spike oki.
ff+3 B!, iFLA f+3, FLA uf+3 for tag out.
ff+3 B!, 3+4~f FLA uf+3 for tag out.
ff+3 B!, 4,3,3~f FLA uf+3 for tag out (really difficult to get consistent in matches).
ff+3 B!, iFLA f+3, 4, d+4,4
ff+3 B!, iFLA f+3> d+4,4>4 for damage (the trick to getting the MAX damage out of this is to let the first d+4 hit at grounded damage. That way it hits on everybody.)
WS 2,1 B! iFLA f+3, ub+4
Jack, Marduk and above:
ff+3 B!, 4,3,3~f, d+4,4,4 *
ff+3 B!, iFLA f+3, 4, d+4,4,4 (Max damage I believe.) *
ff+3 B!, iFLA f+3, df+4,4 for spike oki.
Kuma/Panda/True Ogre:
uf+3,4,3 B! (still hunting for a damaging followup)
ff+3 B! iFLA f+3, 1,2,3,3,3,d+4
ff+3 B! 4,3,3~f, 1,2,3,3,3,d+4 (This is a weird scenario. From straight W!'s this does the most damage out of any of Baek's wall combos, but if you add wall carry in it, it doesn't do a whole lot because of damage scaling issues.)

* VERY INCONSISTENT COMBO. There are instances where it should hit and it doesn't. The FLA f+3, 4, d+4,4,4 and 4,3,3~f d+4,4,4 also hit on Kings, but they are even more inconsistent. Even on Bears it's inconsistent.

Wallsplat combos (such as from b+4; df+3,4; f+3+4 etc):
W!, backdash, d+4,4 W! ff+3 B! or BDC 4,3,3~f W! uf+2 B! and then wall combo. The 4,3,3~f refloat is a bit more situational and works better off of b+4 W! or df+3,4 W!, but does a lot more damage. Also the option to refloat does not work from running 3 W!, and it also doesn't work on True Ogre or Kuma/Panda regardless of which move you used to wall splat (doing it from BD is not possible, from SS it's unreliable).

Low parry
Some options from low parry are:
LP, df+3, 4,3,3~f, 3+4~f, df+3+4 (old T6 staple)
LP, 4,3,3~f, 3+4~f, df+3+4 (just for Kuma)
LP, ff+4,3, dash 4,3,3~f, db+3,3~f df+3+4
LP, ff+4,3, dash 4,3,3~f df+3+4
LP, ff+4,3, dash 4,3,3~f, 3+4~f FLA f+4 (good luck with that... credit to Hisame)

BT combos
On opponent’s back FLA 3,4,4,4 launches.
oBT FLA 3,4,4,4 CC 4,3,3~f, 3+4~f FLA b+3 B! dash db+3,3~fis the best combo in this situation.

*The Baek solo combo thread contains Baek's wall break moves, but here I'll add Baek's floor break moves.
Floor break moves
1) In the air
Excluding spike moves:
- d+2
- WS 4,4
- 1+2
- 1+2,4

2) On the ground
- f+2+3
- right side grab

For more inspiration, check out the following vids:
Baek/Leo by Marin

Multi-character but has a lot of Baek stuff, by SuperOgreKiller

Team Korea! by Orochimaru

MadHittman's Baek Contract

Baek and Feng, by The Main Man

Baek and Yoshimitsu, by STL

Baek and Roger Jr, by HelpMe


NOTE: For more information regarding tagging Baek in and out during combos and his best TA fillers and enders, check the "Baek and the Tag System" section.

Last edited by Budding Fighter on Nov 18th, 2013 at 04:26

Budding Fighter
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#9 “Quote” Edit Post
8) Okizeme

Baek's oki game is pretty scary IMO (not quite herp derp level, but really close). Most people disregard his oki game as being average or even below average, but he's got plenty of refloats, and d+2 is still boss as a ground hitting mid, even though it's -10 now. The only flaw to his oki game is hurting side rolling opponents; most of the times the best punish is a dash d+2 but it's risky because when you're dashing to realign with the side rolling opponent, they could stand up straight or get up kick. d+3 is another option, but the damage is quite piddly.

Post B! options

Baek can do db+3,3~f, df+3+4 for damage, but we have some oki setups as well.
WS 4,4,3~f oki
WS 4,4,4 is a decent ender for damage, but some people will not respect the last 4 ender and backroll in order to decrease the damage on the last 4 (if they're backrolling during WS 4,4,4 as a combo ender they decrease the damage by about 7-8 points). If you know your opponent knows about decreasing the damage, you can go for a little setup.
If they backroll, stand straight up, or try either get-up kick, either d+4,3,3,3~f spike into almost no oki, or time your db+3,3~f into combo (you can get another B!).
If they stay there, d+2 will hit them. It kinda resets the situation though, because of the pushback of d+2 on clean grounded opponent. d+3 is another great option to hit them on the ground, as it also tracks sideroll to either side.
If they get up kick, cancel into FLA uf+3 will CH both get up kicks.

Double db+3,3~f oki
Marin made a really good video about Baek's strongest oki option post B!. Here it is:
Baek's double db+3,3~f oki

It's got all you really want to know.

Overall, his oki ender post B! is db+3,3~f db+3,3~f, but you can play a little metagame with your opponent with regards to the WS 4,4,4 'oki'.

df+3+4 air throw
You're actually at -ve frames from the air throw, so nothing is guaranteed if they decide to stand straight up. Space out post throw. But the following are some set-ups:
If they tag crash, CD+3 (just stay there and then do it, because they'll whiff their tag crash) (Credit: Mr Taliban)
If they try either get-up kick, df+3~f, FLA uf+3 whiff punishes.
Backrolling is safe (opponent is free to be mixed up afterwards though), and quickrise is safe.

Grabs and their oki

Baek's grab oki is pretty average. He has a great 1+2 throw, but unfortunately that's where it really ends. 1+3 gives decent oki. His 2+4~b allows for free quickrise, and that's his best 2 throw for oki.
From all grabs, if they raw tag, you stay there, and CD+3 or just df+2 their butt.

1+3 oki
If they stand straight up, ub+4 hits in the back.
If they stay there or sideroll, d+2 hits as well as db+4. A good thing with that is if they stand straight up post sideroll, db+4 trips them up for a combo. (credit about the db+4 stuff: Hyun Sai)
If they backroll, you can WD into CD+3 or dash grab for a BT throw (credit: Mr Taliban).
If they tag crash, backdash into CD+3 to punish it. Or jump forward into WS 2,1. Or b+3 into BT combo. (credit: CaCarmen)
-3 on break (credit - InaTekken)

2+4 oki
This grab gives no oki whatsoever on open field. They can roll away or stand straight up and the best you can do is try a FLA WD into mix-ups.
If they tag crash, stay there and CD+3. (credit: CaCarmen)
When the opponent's back is the wall though, it's good. It's now techable as it gives a wall hit and now does 40 damage due to the wall hit, but it still gives you good recovery so you can do stuff.
If they tech roll, follow up with mixup.
If they stay there, d+2.
This also changes screen sides so it's good if you notice your opponent can move on, say 1P better than on 2P, and thus try to hinder their movement ability.
This throw is taggable. Tagged in character is closer than Baek is. Gives terrible recovery when tagged, however.
-6 on break (credit - InaTekken)

f+2+3 oki
They can stand up safely, however:
If they try either get-up kick, wait a little bit into df+3~f, FLA uf+3.
If they tag crash, stay still into CD+3. (credit: CaCarmen)
Great thing about this grab is that it switches positions on break and hit, so it's great when your back is against the wall.
-5 on break (credit - InaTekken)

db+1+3 oki
Great thing about this grab is that it switches positions on hit.
If they stand straight up, iFLA 3,4,4,4 into combo.
If they stay there, d+2 hits as well as db+4. A good thing with that is if they stand straight up post sideroll, db+4 trips them up for a combo. (credit about the db+4 stuff: Hyun Sai).
If they sideroll, d+3.
If they backroll, you can WD into CD+3 or dash grab for a BT throw (credit: Mr Taliban).
If they tag crash, SSR, b+3, into BT combo. (credit: CaCarmen)
-6 on break (credit - InaTekken)

2+4~b oki
You're backturned from this throw.
If they roll away, you can turn around and FLA WD into mix-ups.
If they stand straight up, you can turn around into mix-ups.
If they stay there or sideroll, quick turn around into d+2 or d+3 (doing d+3 in this situation is kind of like an option select; it will hit if they stay there, try either get up kick, sideroll, or stand straight up and not get up duck)
If they try either get up kick, BT 4 will CH launch (need to time it a bit).
If they tag crash, hold B and CD+3 to punish. (credit: CaCarmen)
Great thing about this grab is that it switches positions on hit.
-5 on break (credit - InaTekken)

Wall oki

Originally posted by Marin
FDFA oki near the wall is scary, because of how difficult it is for the opponent to get out of the FDFA position, because you can get relaunched into the wall at any moment and because basically the only good way out is either by quickstanding, which results in a cornered position (which is also a tough spot to be in), or Tag crashing. Baek has the fastest attack that results in a spiked FDFA position in the entire game, namely 1+2,4 (14 frames). Some moves that are great in this situation:

For resetting the oki:
- d+3
- ss+3
- d+2

For a wall splat:
- df+1
- f+2
- d+4,3,3,3~f

I prefer to use 1+2,4 near the wall instead of a wall splat launch because of the amazing oki afterwards.



Post W! combo option
After W! 4,4,
- If they stay down, d+2. This is great because there's no pushback with d+2, so SS with them as they techroll and then keep on the pressure.
- If they get up, mix-up db+3,3~f into pressure with b+4. They can block either options though. However, they will not want to block the db+3,3~f in fear of eating b+4 into another mixup.

After W! df+4,4, (credit: CaCarmen)
- If they stay down, the low hit (df+4,4,'4') will hit grounded, or you can d+2 if you're sure they'll stay down.
- If they quick rise, both standing 4 and d+4 float. If standing 4 floated, 4,3,4 is guaranteed. If d+4 floated, d+4,3,3,3~f or d+4,4>4 (go with d+4,4>4 though, as the d+4,3,3,3~f allows for very little followups; at least you get max dmg).
- If they sideroll, d+4 floats for a d+4,4>4 or a d+4,3,3.

After W! FLA f+3, 4, d+4,4:
- If they tech roll, an instant FLA f+3 will catch right tech. If they tech left, the FLA f+3 is blocked and most probably your back is against the wall in FLA. From there, hope that your opponent is defensive and FLA grab to switch sides else you're in trouble.
- If they do not tech roll and stay there, you can whiff your FLA f+3 and:
a) If they get up they face W! mixup.
b) If they get up kick, another FLA f+3 will CH.
c) if they side roll in any direction, db+4 does the most damage. You can also hit them with d+3, delayed d+4 as well as db+3,3~f if they decide to side roll.



Knockdown Oki
His knockdown game is kinda lacking IMO, but he's got some stuff.
NOTE: Whenever 4,3,3~f floats, you can also do d+3,3,n+3(~5) to float them to a wall.

1+2,4 or CH FLA b+3
- If they lay there, either get up kick or sideroll, dash d+2 (the dash will track against sideroll).
- If they get up or backroll dash 4,3,3~f picks up for combo.
- If they tag crash, b+3~D to BT combo.
- If they get up kick, you are at a range where get up kicks will whiff. CD+3 for best punish.

CH (4,)4
d+2 is not guaranteed (anymore), they can stand up to get spiked by it. But here's some more viable oki from it.
- If they get up or backroll, dash 4,3,3~f picks up for combo.
- If they tag crash, b+3~D to BT combo.

ff+4,3
After hit, dash:
- If they techroll, you've got a hell of a lot of frames to mix them up.
- If they lay there, d+2 (they don't have enough time to sideroll or try either get up kick).
- If they quick backroll (which is rare), a timed ff+3 acts as a backroll catch; either it insta B!'s if you do it too early or it will juggle them if you time it just right. You can also do another ff+4,3 and put them in the same situation again, or float them for a combo.

b+2
At the wall,
- d+2 is guaranteed. It hits if they lay there, backroll (spike), quickrise (spike) or try either get up kick.
- If they quickrise or backroll, 4 floats into 4, d+4,4>4.
In the open nothing is free.

FLA f+3
Untechable knockdown. When it hits, do a df+3~f:
- If they get up, you can force them to block another FLA f+3. Use that to do another df+3~f into a pressure game.
- If they do a get up kick, you can another FLA f+3 and get a CH.

Last edited by Budding Fighter on Aug 7th, 2014 at 08:43

Budding Fighter
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1606
From: New Zealand
#10 “Quote” Edit Post
9) FLA WD

This is probably the most advanced part of Baek's game - no, this is THE most advanced part of Baek's game.
Baek's problem is that most of his moves don't have a CRAPTON of range like some characters do *coughJackcough*. Also, if he whiffs, most of the time he's asking to get launched. This means that he's a rather short ranged character, and since BDC is really good in TTT2, it's kind of a problem.

df+3 is an i22 move. It's mid and launches on counter hit. It's punishable at -12, but there's a delayable (and hella HitConfirmable) part to that string (df+3>4) which KND's and wallsplats. That part is -14, but has a decent pushback.
The best thing about df+3 is that it can be cancelled into FLA just like his 1,2,3 string, by either forward, up or down (not by back though). It looks a bit awkward when you cancel it, though. He looks like he's just dashing and moving forward while in FLA.
Wait, he can move forward quickly in FLA (unlike Hwoarang)?
OH MY GOD WE HAVE THE SOLUTION TO BAEK'S RANGE PROBLEM.

df+3~f over and over is known as FLA WD (Or Flamingo Wavedash). I will do a short comparison of FLA WD with his regular f,n,d,df wavedash.

Wavedash
- Difficult (?) input (f,n,d,df,n,f,n,d,df...)
- Cannot be done if in FLA.
- You can stop it at any time (f,n,d,df,f,b to stop)
- Lateral movement is relatively small (f,n,d,df,f,u_d)
- Provides access to only a few moves
- If hit in it, Baek takes regular damage

FLA WD
- Easy input (df+3~f,df+3~f...)
- Can be done while in FLA.
- Cannot be stopped immediately (df+3~f~b+1+2)
- Lateral movement is relatively HUGE (df+3~u_d)
- Provides access to ALL of his FLA moves
- If hit in it, Baek eats CH damage.
The last part is really scary. This means that if you're approaching someone via FLA WD, if they stick out their magic 4 (or Steve b+1) and Baek gets hit, he gets launched.
This means that FLA WD requires a whole lot more awareness and spacing than the regular counterpart.
On the usage of FLA WD I have a little theory.
Budding Fighter's theory on the usage of FLA WD
If the distance between you and your opponent is such that you cannot hit df+3~f~FLA grab on its max range, you shouldn't be doing the Flamingo Wavedash at that time.

What I mean by that is you aren't supposed to be doing FLA WD right up in their face because the risk is so huge, unless it's a part of FLA pressure, in which case you've got to be a bit careful.
NoodleHead said it the best:
Originally posted by NoodleHead
... it's very important to know the very Fundamental of the FLA WD: the hit range of d/f+3...
Ask yourself this question: At what range should you be using Chreddy's u/f+4, Yoshi's f+3+4, and Hei's CD+3?

If your answer is not 'point blank range,' then you should have a very good idea when to stop canceling the d/f+3 during FLA WD.


Here's what NoodleHead has to say about FLA WD:
Originally posted by NoodleHead
Though FLA WD is not conventionally safer to the regular WD, its reward is over the roof. Here are some facts of a correctly done FLA WD w/o any other moves mixed in:
-FLA WD tracks, so it nullifies your opponent?s ss/sw as long as they are not done after the FLA WD (d/f+3~f) execution. d/f+3 alone also tracks a bit to its left
-FLA WD travels way faster than dash in, adding to the fact that d/f+3?s got super long range, it kills bdc for lunch.
-On CH, d/f+3 juggles [do a crapton of damage]. You can also choose to wall-carry for some even scarier wall/okizeme setup.
-On block, d/f+3 is jab-punishable, but w/ the delayed ?4? at the end, it will shut down opponent?s offense after eating a few of KND 4.


Okay, now that we know that learning the art of FLA WD is REALLY worth it, and I've been talking about spacing and careful usage of the FLA WD, let's go into the workshop and get practicing!
Learn the range of df+3 first. Go into practice mode, select a dummy (preferably a different character each time because characters models do matter).
Originally posted by NoodleHead
1. Attack the dummy w/ d/f+3 at its maximum range.
2. Attack the dummy w/ d/f+3~f d/f+3 at its maximum range.
3. Attack the dummy w/ d/f+3~f(x2, x3) d/f+3 at its maximum range.
4. Attack the dummy w/ d/f+3~u_d d/f+3 at its maximum range.
5. Attack the dummy w/ d/f+3~f d/f+3~u_d d/f+3 at its maximum range.

You need to nail each part of the exercise in 5 successive runs WITHOUT fail , ie, if you mess up and NOT hit the dummy at the max range of the kick, then start that step again from zero.

This might take you a few weeks, maybe a month and a half (it's been 5 weeks for me and I still get it messed up sometimes). Always practice this whenever you can go into practice mode.

Now that you would have learned the perfect max range of df+3 and df+3~f and stuff, you might be thinking, "Well what if the opponent is NOT at the perfect max range of df+3; what do I do then?"
Fear not my friend, because Baek can do other moves too!

I've made a little list of the useful moves Baek can do from FLA WD, and compared their range to df+3 (on a little scale from 1 to 15, 15 being the range of df+3). Here it is:
Code:

df
+3            [---------------]
FLA f+3         [-------------]
db+4            [------------]
FLA f+4         [----------]
FLA uf+3        [---------]
FLA 3,3~f       [---------]
b+4             [--------]
df+4            [--------]
df+1            [--------]
3               [-------]
4               [-------]
d+3             [-------]
b+1_b+2         [------]
db+3,3~f        [------]
d+4             [-----]
FLA grab        [----]
2               [----]
1               [---]
FLA punch parry []

Now you know the basic attacks you can do on the different ranges of the FLA WD. Now, to practice this, I suggest going into practice mode, picking Heihachi as a dummy, and set him to do his shadow step (bb,n,3+4). When he does that, you move a bit too (BDC, sidestep, CD whatever). Then, once the shadow step finishes, stop.
Now, FLA WD up to him and ask yourself, "Which move with hit on MAX RANGE from here?" I know this one will require a whole lot more practice, but this is a bit more realistic scenario, which I feel is a bit more effective. Of course you can do the NoodleHead way of hitting the opponent with the above moves at max range so as to learn the moves' range.

Originally posted by NoodleHead
So from here, you can now go to the practice mode, and test out their range. Start from a distance and FLA WD toward the dummy until the distance is smaller than the maximum d/f+3 range, then test out the rest of the attacks. It?s essential to know those move ranges and use them at where they are intended to use.
The reason why it's so difficult to use those attacks effectively during FLA WD is because not only you have to know the range of each attack, but you also have to add such range into the range of your carefully spaced FLA WD . To perform those moves at their effective range, you will need to have absolutely no problem w/ controlling FLA WD forward-travel at all? In a way, you will be replacing the WD or forward movement all together w/ the FLA WD only, which makes Baek almost a completely new character to play.
If you still have difficulty doing all these at once, make sure you can control your FLA WD like if you are walking normally (Chapter 1), then go back and practice again. To master up to this point should take you at least two week to a month or so. Good luck.


I've been practicing for five weeks and I still don't have it down, so don't feel sad if you can't get it all right at the first time. Practicing and mastering FLA WD requires a crap ton of patience.

The most hard-to-grasp fact about FLA WD is that you can't block instantly from FLA WD, unlike regular WD. Here's NoodleHead on how to get around that weakness:

Originally posted by NoodleHead
If you have done everything at this point and have applied it in your game, you probably have realized how scary FLA WD is to your opponents. Different from other offensive maneuver, FLA WD in offense only gets scarier the more your opponents become defensive/turtlish...

Nevertheless, when they finally become panic and slip a quick desperation attack, you will realize that the whole FLA WD practice you have tried so hard to accomplish suddenly becomes useless. It only gets much worse when they find out that using the quick, mid range attacks (i.e. Julia's f,f+1, or Chreddy's u/f+4) IS the way to destroy the FLA WD setup... What are you going to do?


Well? there are a few options really, but the difficulty is several times harder than you have practiced before? Those are:

1. FLA SS WD - Use within opponent's attack range
2. FLA punch parry - Use beyond opponent's attack range

I am going to explain more of each below...

1. FLA SS WD - 3-D FLA WD

There are a few places where you will find this useful. FLA SSR avoids many right arm attacks such as Jin's f,f+2, and FLA SSL avoids the close-range jabs. Make sure that the SS actually comes out during the FLA WD, and try to learn the recovery frame so you can add your own attack immediately.

The hard part of this one is not the ss (though it would give u some trouble getting it to be useful to dodge your opponent), but the part where you are to attack. You can start w/ the easier attacks such as b+2 for ssl, and b+1 for ssr to make it a double SS during FLA WD, then you can start adding more moves that might give u better reward, such as FLA (hold 3) b+4,4,3 for a side-way juggle.

To practice FLA SS WD carefully, you can train by working on this sequence:

d/f+3~f~U ssl FLA d/f+3~f FLA d/f+3~f~D ssr FLA d/f+3~f and so on
(short notation: FLA WD~SSL~WD~SSR~and repeat)

2. FLA punch parry - 4-D(!?) FLA WD (refers to Eyeshield 21 Sena's 4th Dimension Run)

You might be wondering why I am using punch parry OUTSIDE of opponent's strike range... well, here are a few reasons why you shouldn't do it inside of opponent's striking range:

-The SPACING of FLA WD into anything is DIFFICULT
-The TIMING of punch parry is HARD

So... unless it's absolutely necessary, or the chance of successful punch parry is high (i.e. Steve as opponent), setting up the punch parry to do its job in a FLA WD scenario = suicide.

So... why punch parry OUTSIDE of the striking range then?

After a few rounds of matches, your opponent will likely to get used to the rhythm of the FLA WD. To counter FLA WD mixups, opponents have to attack w/ moves of farther reach than Baek's d/f+3, they also need to make sure the timing of the attack was perfect (based on Baek's "ya, ya, ya") to hit Baek before getting CH'd by d/f+3. What FLA punch parry does, is exactly to destroy the predictable timing of the FLA WD - one of FLA WD's biggest flaws. In addition, the sudden stop of the forward motion will cause your opponent to attack prematurely and whiff their attack within d/f+3 punishable range, making them prone to any post-whiff attacks.

To practice FLA punch parry carefully, you can work on this sequence

d/f+3~f d/f+3~f FLA b+1+2 d/f+3~f FLA b+1+2 and so on
(short notation: d/f+3~FLA WD~PP~WD~PP~)


Once you are good w/ each, then you might want to try practicing this sequence:

d/f+3~f d/f+3~f FLA b+1+2 d/f+3~U ssl FLA d/f+3~f FLA b+1+2 FLA d/f+3~d ssr FLA d/f+3 and so on
(short notation: d/f+3~FLA WD~PP~SSL~WD~PP~SSR~and repeat)


It will take a shit load of time and effort to complete this practice, but once it's done, it will shut down opponent's offensive game during your FLA WD. FLA SS WD causes opp whiff off-axis, and FLA PP causes opp whiff in front of you. It's up to you to punish w/ whatever you feel comfortable. After causing opponent whiff a few times, they will be too scared to dish out any moves in retaliation, making Offensive FLA an unstoppable force.

The bad part of PP now is that you can't go into FLA from it right away, so df+3 right out of PP takes a bit of time now as compared to in DR.

This will, as said by NoodleHead, require a shit load of practice, possibly months to get down, but once you're down with it, go destroy opponents!

Last edited by Budding Fighter on Sep 3rd, 2013 at 11:41

Budding Fighter
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1606
From: New Zealand
#11 “Quote” Edit Post
10) General playstyle

Baek, primarily is a pitbull (random FG fact: ALL of fighting game characters who practice Tae Kwon Do are pitbull characters), but is versatile enough to play different styles. You want to focus on oki? He's got it. Whiff punishing? Yes he can do it. Block punishing? Eh; pushbacks make his life a bit difficult (he gets situational punishes off of Kuma ff+2 or Heihachi ff+2 unless walls involved), but for the most part he's good. Poking? He may not be T6 BR Alisa, but he can certainly poke really well.

Based on the vids I've watched of Baek players, as well as my own experimentation, here's some general, basic playstyles of Baek.

Turtle:
Baek is a decent turtle. He's no Bruce, Mishima, or even Paul in punishing (whom I consider to be the best punishers in the game), but he can punish stuff fairly decently. His movement is also pretty average, but b+3 is one of the best evasive 'attacks' in the game, second to only SSR AOP (just because AOP crushes highs too). This makes him a huge trouble for characters with shitty tracking to their left *coughLarscough*.

I've made a list of his punishers here if you want to know about that.

You can also play keepout in your turtle game with throwing out magic 4's and WS 4's and hoping to hit them (or CH them in the case of magic 4) so that you can get back onto the offensive, which is where I and most Baek players believe he belongs.

Pitbull:
Baek is one of the best pitbulls in the game, and one of the reasons I say that is because he can poke solidly, while being able to turn the heat up in a jiffy and put on pressure, not through frames (on block, obviously), but through mental pressure and guessing games. His tracking is also a bit okayish (he's no Jin/Raven/Steve who make you play a linear game at all times) but most of the moves you'll be using are the tracking moves, you should really not have am insane amount of trouble.

Tracking
Baek's tracking is average IMO. Some of his basic pokes don't track incredibly well, and most of his tracking moves are from FLA (I think this might be credited to the fact that whenever you go into FLA, you auto align with the opponent).

df+1 tracks to his left slightly, and the 3 extension will realign with the opponent (credit: CaCarmen)
b+4 tracks to his left really well (credit: CaCarmen)
df+3 tracks to his left really well (the followup kick can be SSR by enemy though if they're not Marduk)
d+3 tracks to his left slightly (credit: CaCarmen)
(2),2_bb+2 tracks to his left fairly well
b+4 tracks to his left really well (credit: CaCarmen)
FLA uf+3 is steppable during startup but tracks to his left towards the hit frames (credit: CaCarmen)
f+3+4 tracks both ways (homing)
FLA f+3 tracks almost 100% both ways
ff+4 tracks both ways (homing)
d+4 tracks both sides really well (credit: CaCarmen)
df+2 tracks to his right slightly (credit: CaCarmen)
db+2 tracks sidewalk but not sidestep (credit: CaCarmen)

ff+3: This is a special case. The kick itself is hella linear, but since it's a dash attack, it can be made to track by extending the dash.

His basic pokes track fairly well and if you're in a FLA pressure situation, because FLA itself has a tendency to track, you should not have an insane amount of trouble making them play a linear game. They still will try to SS (IMO they should SW more, because they can avoid db+3 that way) so be really careful, and don't be afraid to throw out those FLA f+3's out there if you expect them to step/walk. Also when not in FLA and involved in poking wars, please dash before your moves. It'll help your cause. Seriously.

There are several styles of pitbulling I've seen:

(1) T4 style pitbulling
I call this T4 style because essentially, the gameplan is poke poke sidestep poke sidewalk poke poke poke. They will keep pressuring you with safe df+1's, safe df+4's, relatively safe d+4's (if they've got the generic low, that is), and sidewalk to see if you whiff. It's the safest way of poking in terms of punishment (since you're not really throwing out stuff that is even below -5 on block unless you're doing lows, which allows you to sidewalk retaliation in case they mash after blocking your mid).
If you're doing this, I suggest being unpredictable in your pattern. It can still be crushed. They can anticipate the SS and throw out a move that tracks that way (as an eg: for Baek, if enemy pokes then SSR, he can do ff+4,3 into whatever). Read THIS for more information on this kind of a play style.

Do not feel limited to those moves, however. Throw out whatever you want to. If it's working for you, great.
This style of offense is a transitional way into:

(2)FLA pressure
Moved to FLA offense part of the guide. I should clean this up soon.

(3) FLA mindgames
Ok, now that you've scared them into not pressing any buttons, you are set to go. Mindgames have begun, and you're free to do anything that's not overly stupid.
Along with your FLA pressure tools (never forget them), use df+3~f as well. It's a great tool to screw your opponent with. Some players will listen to your character (in our case, Baek), and try to deduce your pattern so as to crush it. Since df+3~f makes the same 'ya' noise as FLA 3,3~f and db+3,3~f (the db+3,3~f seems random, as he makes quite a lot of noises while doing that move), it throws your opponent off, and whatever little advantage they had by blocking anything, is all gone because of the hesitation you created (H-stun).
The FLA grab is also really good. f+2~3 is how I do it, but you can do f+2+3 as well. The reason I do it by f+2~3 is because the grab comes out 'faster' (think of Jack-5 5 frame uf+1+2 in 5.0) and thus is harder to break.

Now that we know all this about FLA pressure, mindgames and how to be a pitbull with him, you might be wondering, "This info is all good, but how do I approach my opponent?"

(4) Approaching your opponent
There are several ways to do this:
- You can WD. Baek has a standard Mishima WaveDash (CD~CD~CD~CD~CD etc), which is a blessing. Some moves he can do out of WD which are good to set up an offense are WS 4, WS 3~f, grabs (1+3, 2+4~b, and db+1+3 are the ones you might want to use though you can do all grabs from WD), and db+3,3~f. The last two options require a decent bit of execution, so practice, practice, practice.
- You can also FLA WD (this only really works best when you have a solid grip of FLA WD, and thus is the most advanced way - and the riskiest - of trying to approach).
- The other way is by just dashing in carefully. This method is the most universal method, and also the safest. Dash, then cancel the dash with back, to block out of the dash.
- Get a FLA f+3 connected and go from there. If it hits, refer to FLA f+3 knockdown oki in the okizeme section. If it is blocked, refer to FLA f+3 blocked scenario at the random info post. If it gets a CH, do a combo.

The best time to get in is after a KND. It is really up to you as to what method you want to use there. If you were/are a Mishima player, you might want to WD. If you know what you're doing, you might want to look at FLA WD. All of those methods can be stuffed if the opponent knows what you're doing (Baek's mixup game out of regular WD is not that strong compared to Mishimas, and FLA WD is susceptible to CH's), so mixing it up is pretty necessary.

Special: The +8 situation

Baek has a few moves that allow him to use +8 advantage over the opponent, including f+2,1, db+3,3~f, FLA 3,3~f and d+1 on hit. What this leads to is pretty much a total control of the opponent and the options they have. I'll list what they can do and what you can do against it, and mark it if it leads to resetting the same situation.

Sidewalking left: f+2,1 [Reset] (note that smaller characters can still avoid this by sidewalking left)
Sidewalking right: b+4 [KND]
Backdashing: db+3,3~f [Reset]
Mashing anything*: 4

* I do not know if anything can actually high crush under it. Law d+2,3 and DVJ u+4 might be able to high crush it but for that we have our mids.

Poking

Baek's poking game is pretty okay. He's no Alisa or Jin but he can certainly try to chip the opponent to death and has got tools to do so.

- df+1: Standard df+1, -1 on block so it allows you to sidewalk if it's blocked to punish retaliation. An okay move to just run in and do.

- df+4,4: i12 mid poke that has a little pushback on block but is -6 on block. NCc.

- d+4,3: i11 NCc and often hits even if the low just hits.

- d+3: Good ranged low poke.

Baek's poking game is used so as to stop the opponent from spacing so that Baek can run in and start his mixups.

Last edited by Budding Fighter on Jun 30th, 2014 at 09:54

Budding Fighter
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From: New Zealand
#12 “Quote” Edit Post
11) Peeling the onion

This is essentially Baek's neutral game. I've categorized the info into three ranges: range zero (right up close); one backdash away; two backdashes away. I've written down what moves tend to reach here (and explain them a little too) and what the general meta of that range should be.

Basic up-close offense tools (range zero):

- f+2,1: Very few people use this. Dunno why. It's an i15 HITCONFIRMABLE mid-high string that's PLUS EIGHT ON HIT. This is mostly your main mid up close, as it has terrible range and outside of point blank, just doesn't have anything going for it. Up close, however, it's much more lucrative.

- d+4: Not so generic generic low. i12, -2 on hit, -13 on block. However, unlike basically any low kick in the game, except on Lili where she may be able to SWR it, it's basically a homing move on every other character in the game. i12 homing lows are very hard to come by. Also has good range. Mostly used up close for its tracking and also the fact that it's a quick low kick means that when you're + frames, it's not possible to crush this.

- df+1: Generic standard. The extension is something you should (tier one meta) only be doing in guaranteed situations eg punishes (forgot, but this is also a good FLA transition provided you do it when it's guaranteed). However, and Scott taught me this, (tier two meta) if you know the opponent knows about the followup, then just spamming df+1 can cause them to go "WTF where's the 3"? which can be good in clutch situations (reverse gimmicks FTW). Generic df+1's are good just up close as a "I don't know what to do I just want to see you would do here" mid - just ask Miguel - but Baek's extension gives him more to work with as far as setting up mind games goes.

- df+4: i12 mid kick. Extremely linear and hangs around on whiff like a guest on a party that doesn't want to go. df+4,4 is a good tool if you think they'll push a button but you don't want to commit to a high ie standing 4, but like I said, be aware of the tracking (or the lack of it more like).

- 4: They're going to hit a button when you have + frames? Well then use this, as you get a free combo from it. Best used as a frame trap tool up close, as they're not going to duck you so even if it gets blocked you're safe, and you can mess around with the extension afterwards if they block it and get antsy.

- Mindset:

LET'S GO!!!

Get them to stop trying to escape this situation, then pummel them with simple low mid mixup.

Hit them. Get frame advantage. Then:

If they don't block
They move backward? Dash in.
They move sideways? Dash in.
They hit a button? Hit your button (CH 4) earlier, or whiff punish.

If they block
db+3,3~f
vs
f+2,1

Everything else is just icing on the cake.


One backdash away:

- Perfect time to try FLA mixup. FLA mixups are not extremely good up close because of their risk reward, but from this range if you attempt FLA mixup, you have the ability to close in if they're far away, but you also have the ability to backstep if they are being a little stupid, and whiff punish them.

- FLA b+3 at max range is a good option. It's a good mid with good range - it can whiff if they back dash it, but if they're back dashing it you have options like dashing in. It's good at this range because it just tends to catch CH's often and when it hits, CH or not, it closes the distance somewhat effectively, and also it puts the opponent into crouch, from where people tend to mash more and move less, which you can use to set up whiff punishes.

- d+3 and d+4 are extremely good low pokes at this range to chip the opponent, because no one is blindly ducking at this range to catch. Also around this range WS 4's tend to miss trying to punish it (Dragunov shoulder always reaches ), which you can whiff punish again.

- Mindset:

GETTING IN IS MAIN PRIORITY.

FLA WD is risky; dashing in is safest option. Look at how they're occupying the space in front of them, and punish it.

Dash, block (test the opponent)
Dash, sidestep (against Craig db+2 style keepout moves)
Dash, backdash (against jab keepout)
Dash, b+3 (similar to sidestepping; greater reward, greater risk)
Dash, duck (against high keepout)
Dash, attack (if they predict your movement as bait, switch it up)

GET THEM TO STOP TRYING TO STOP YOUR APPROACH.

Use opening and forced whiffs to punish and use this as free offense - neutral game for Baek is bad; offense at range zero is good.

Use whiff punishments as free up close offense, as getting in from the neutral game is quite a difficult task, and utilising this free pressure situation is key towards building up your offense.


Two backdashes away:

- SSL 3: SSL because SS 3 has axis movement of it's own, and SSL 3 negates that movement and gives you... a good ranged low that's -12 on block and +4 on hit. It also gets you from that far away to right up in their grill, and is thus a great way to close the gap if you can get it to hit.

- db+2: Primary ranged punisher if you don't want to risk CD+3. Gives good combos on hit, tracks for dick and -13 on block. Like I said, use whiff punishes as free offense.

- CD+3: The EWGK (Electric Wind God Kick) of Baek. Has surprisingly bad range TBH, but on hit leads into half life solo or something like that. -17 on block but has good pushback. Fastest execution = i19.

- FLA uf+3: If you realise that the opponent has a launch for CD+3, but nothing spectacular for -14 (Dragunov comes to mind), this is the primary whiff punisher of choice. Fastest execution = i18.

- FLA f+3: One of the best mids he has. Tracks both ways. This on hit allows you to get in, and on block creates an interesting neutral situation that depends on the opponent as far as their options are concerned and how they like to deal with this scenario.

- ff+4: Performs a similar function to FLA f+3, but it's more standard as far as the situation goes, as you're in now, similar to SSL 3.

- 4: At this range CH 4 can be used to stop the opponent from getting in by throwing it out preemptively. It can catch the opponent for combos (so easy it's magic; hence it's name magic 4), but be warned Baek's CH 4 does not lead to a combo by itself from max range.

- Mindset:

GETTING IN IS MAIN PRIORITY!!!

- Dash in with ff+4
- FLA WD; PRACTICE SPACING
- WD- Ws 4, FC d+4, ff+4, grabs
- FLA f+3

GET THEM TO STOP MOVING.

Two second rule applies: Look for opening, whiffs, attempted anti spacing for two seconds, then look again or regroup

OR

KEEP OUT WITH CH 4'S THREAT

Risky; easier to whiff punish

If they get too antsy, 4 extension keeps them in check.

Last edited by Budding Fighter on Jun 30th, 2014 at 09:16

Budding Fighter
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#13 “Quote” Edit Post
12) FLA offense

Before I begin, Marin's post on FLA offense:

Originally posted by Marin
FLA pressure game

As many of you T5, T5DR and T6 Baek players have noticed, Baek's FLA pressure game has changed drastically in TTT2. This drastic change has its roots in a change of Baek's overall game plan. To better understand FLA pressure in TTT2, it's worth noting what FLA pressure used to be, what has changed and how they eventually balanced it out.

Before TTT2

In the old days, Baek was mainly focused around the string ender mix-ups. With Baek's "strings", I'm referring to the moves

- df+4,4
- ws+4,4
- f+4
- d+4,3,3
- FLA 3,4,4
- ws+3,4,4
- 3,3,4,4
- 1,2,3,3,4,4
- uf,N+3,3,4,4.

All these moves have one thing in common: they all have string enders. You can continue all the strings with either a mid ender, a low ender or a FLA cancel ender (which looks like a mid at first). This creates two possible mix-ups: the mid/cancel and the mid/low mix-ups. As the low is quite unsafe, and even low parryable on reaction, the latter mix-up is usually avoided. However the mid/cancel mix-up was a genuinely scary mix-up, since a cancel would lead into more low/mid/throw mix-ups from FLA, but most importantly the mid-ender had a CH stun and would crush anything if the opponent would attack after the string before it was blocked. Thus the opponent had to think before attacking because of the fear of a CH bait.

After a succesful FLA cancel however, Baek couldn't really stay in FLA for too long. He could only go for another string into mid/cancel mix-up or he could take a safer approach and only keep the opponent away with some safe mid pokes. Only in T6 did Baek get FLA db+3,3~f FLA, which would extend his FLA rushdowns by only just a bit (after all it can be low parried). So to summarize:

Before TTT2, it was easier to get close in FLA stance, but it was more difficult to rush down the opponent.

After TTT2

In TTT2, a new attack emerged: FLA 3,3~f FLA. It made it possible to link Baeks best mid from FLA, FLA 3, back into FLA to continue pressure. So adding to this FLA db+3,3~f FLA (which is a low), Baek can now very easily stay in FLA and can do very scary rushdowns. However, to balance this the people at Namco decided to weaken his mid/cancel mix-ups by removing the CH stun on the mid-enders (and replacing it with a wall splat) and by making the mid-ender slower, so that it's easier to sidestep and to make it interruptable by jabs. So now the situation is:

In TTT2, it's more difficult to get up close into FLA stance, but it's easier to rushdown your opponent.

FLA pressure game

Enough backstory, let's focus on the FLA pressure game. The main goal of FLA rushdown is very simple: to guess (or determine!) whether your opponent expects a mid, low or a throw, and react accordingly. Use highs as quick moves to interrupt your opponent if he tries to attack, while still remaining at close range. His best moves are:

Highs: 1, 4
Mids: FLA 3,3~f (also df+4,4, df+1, f+2, etc...)
Lows: db+3,3~f
Throws: FLA throw (FLA f+2+3)

A good rule of thumb to keep in mind when rushing down is that if the previous attack was a hit, then the opponent is more likely to be defensive afterwards, and if the previous attack was blocked, then the opponent is more likely to be offensive afterwards. Therefore:


The only advice that I can give about improving your reading abilities is to play Baek lots of times, to figure out standard blocking patterns (often times you'll see mid-mid-low, that's why low-low-mid is a very easy and basic FLA pressure string) and to figure out your opponents blocking habits.

I have 5 years of experience with playing Baek in tourneys, and this is basically how I view Baek's FLA pressure game. I really hope that this was helpful in any way =P


Originally posted by Mr.Taliban
i would like to add something about this based on my experience. sometimes you will encounter opponents who does the exact opposite of what is written here so i think you gotta have to device another strategy for these people. you gotta have some sort of plan B. example is ws+443~f on hit. Since the opponent is on hit status, you may think theyll be more defensive afterwards so db+33~f or fla grab or even df+3~f is a good move to throw in this situation. BUT SOME people would attack right away with their WS moves or hopekicks since people think that because youre in FLA, you should be at a disadvantage(back in br, baek kills those people who dare disrespect him by trying to do a move while baek is FLA). In this situation, plan A is ineffective and will get you killed. plan B is, to kill hopkicks, use 433~f to score a counter hit. if the opponent does i11 WS move, kill it with a jab(433~f will clash in this situation resulting to your opponent dealing more damage than you). 123~f or 23 is your safest bet(or 22 if your opponent just wouldnt learn).


Baek's FLA doesn't really work the same way Hwoarang's (henceforth referred to as Howard) does.
Unlike Howard's flamingo game, none of Baek's transitions are any good on block, and most of them are meh on hit - only ones that are really worth using are db+3,3~f or df+1,3 (in guaranteed situations)... that's pretty much it, really. Every other transition isn't worth using due to lack of frames in hit which would allow you getting sidestep hopkicked as option select punishes.

I'm currently in the process of breaking down FLA from every transition, but as a general guideline, here are some moves that are useful in FLA (mostly applies to 4,3,3~f, 1,2,3~f and the 3 enders):

- d+4_d+4,3: His ultimate tracking low at i12. Hopkicks crush at i9 generally speaking, therefore, after all 3 ender transitions, this can be hopkicked. However, because of its tracking, it cannot be stepped. d+4,3 can be used if the opponent is unable to quickly cancel his steps into block, because it can happen that they are stepping, and eat d+4, and before they were able to turn their step into block, they eat the 3 as well. d+4 also has good range so it will hit if they're backdashing, but unfortunately, because they'll already be holding b, they can block and punish the 3.

- FLA f+3: A noticeably slower mid, but with tons and tons of range, as well as almost 100% tracking. This can be CH out of, from most transitions, but if they decide to move after eating a transition, you can attempt to hit them with it.

Now because of having to deal with these options, your opponent might not want to move anymore. They might choose to hit buttons, in which case you can refer to Mr Taliban's post.

If they get sick of either having to block FLA f+3 or d+4, or get CH by jabs or 4,3, they'll most likely want to just stop altogether. This is where the mind games begin, and so does your arsenal of mids.

- f+2,1: My favourite mid with Baek. i15, hitconfirmable, gives tons of frames on hit, barely able to step stuff on block (-5 isn't the best time to step, however, for fear of the second hit, opponent might be a little hesitant in their retaliation).

- df+1: Golden standard. If you are absolutely sure they will duck, and you want to keep your FLA train going, you can use df+1,3 and continue your FLA pressure. Be careful, as it it not hitconfirmable, and mid-high so you run the risk of getting ducked-launched on block. However, due to the extension and how much damage the opponent can score off of it, they'll more often than not be looking for it. That's when df+1 alone is key. -1 on block, i13 mid.

- FLA 3,3~f: Another mid one might want to use to keep FLA pressure going. +7 on hit into FLA is almost identical to db+3,3~f on hit, which provides great mixups. Do note that this also has very spotty tracking. Also, on block you have to make a very hard read on the opponent and what they want to do, because you're -ve on block into FLA, which is a risky position to be in.

- FLA b+3: Really good for tracking; really reliable and consistent against every single character in the game. Basically think of it as a Lars b+1 that has better frame data on block and on CH nets you a little more damage or wake ups. Very much usable.

- d+1: Perfect mid to keep them in check. On hit it is +8 OC, which is mixup city time. On block it's -1, same as df+1. The difference between this and df+1 is that the 4 extension is a little safer, but can be SWR'd and launched. If they're antsy and want to attack afterward, you can use the 4 ender to score a CH. Especially good against the wall.

As for lows...

- db+3,3~f: His main pressure low. Spotty tracking to both sides, but this is not a low you want to track with, but rather to attack with. +8 on hit into FLA. It is a little slow, so be absolutely sure they won't attack you through the transition before you attempt db+3,3~f. +8 is a lot, and even though the damage is chip damage, it will pile up quite quick, especially in rage.

Some random things to try every once in a while:

- df+3~f: A df+3 canceled into FLA again. This is great if you have the opponent freezing a lot, because like most of his move, he says "YA!" during the animation. However, because there is no move that comes out of it, the cancel can sometimes make the opponent highly confused and make them hesitate.

- f+2~3: FLA throw. 40 damage, but no wakeups. 12 frames. If you feel like they won't duck it, or don't know if Baek even has it, this is a great tool to use to get free damage while the opponent is asleep.

- 1,2,3,3,3~f: A lot of Asian Baek players use this. On paper it looks like bottom tier shit, because you can duck the string after 1,2 and blow him apart right? Well practically speaking, it is very difficult to do, and it is even more so if the opponent is looking for other stuff like FLA throw, FLA f+3 etc. If the 3 hits because they were trying to mash after 1,2 hoping to catch a 1,2,3~f FLA transition, the 1,2,3,3,3~f will end up giving +10 GB on hit, which is fantastic advantage and you can damn well do whatever you please. Even if the FLA transition gets blocked, often opponents are looking for other things like the low 1,2,3,3,3,d+4. It also helps that the 3 series jails on block so they can't duck any part of it even though they're all high. Once you sneak into FLA that way and begins to look for that FLA transition, you can finish the whole string, because again, they're not looking for the low, they're looking for other things. The low gives FDFA which is a really bad position for the opponent. As for the FLA transition on block, often players will freeze seeing that string for some reason (possibly the speed of the attacks), so even though it's -1 on block, you still get to maintain pressure. Do note that the pressure is indeed a risk because you're not + on block from the transition so they can mash and get out.

Overall, it's harder to utilise FLA compared to his regular stance, because of the safety of his regular offence, but if you feel like you really have the opponent read, FLA is a great way to maintain pressure. However, do remember that it is not advised to keep FLA pressure on forever, because of the risk you run getting punished, and in Tag 2, getting punished (as in launched), hurts. A LOT.

Special FLA transitions to take care of:
- FLA f+3 on block:
Characters with long range jabs (ie Bryan, Wang and above) will hit you (but you can punch parry them or hold back to make them whiff), but short range jabs will whiff, which you can punish with FLA uf+3.
Slower retaliations can be CH out of using jabs (anything slower than i10 that doesn't high crush) or df+4,4 (to take care of high crushes; at most you'll trade with i12 generic low).
Trying to set up an offence is harder because you have no frames into FLA this time, so movement can get around a lot of his stuff. Make more use of FLA f+3 and d+4 to discourage movement.

- db+3,3~f, df+1,3 or FLA 3,3~f:
Refer to Special: the +8 situation HERE

Last edited by Budding Fighter on Aug 7th, 2014 at 08:46

Budding Fighter
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From: New Zealand
#14 “Quote” Edit Post
13) Wall game

Baek's wall game has been significantly buffed since T6. In T6 it was below average, since he didn't have even relatively quick mids that W! other than launchers like df+2 and b+4, and since they were a launch, the damage potential was less than a wall stunning move (a wall stun allows for refloats which generally do more damage - sometimes even 10-12 points more in Baek's case with a 4,3,3~f refloat).

Not any more.

Baek now has really quick mids (well not extremely quick, but relatively quick) that allow for wallsplats eg b+4 (which is now safe) and ff+4,3 (which is a HOMING MOVE! ). This means that if an opponent is jab happy with his back to the wall (which is unusual but definitely possible), you can backdash or sidestep and use those quick moves and put your foot in their face and get W! into tons and tons of damage and victory (because more often than not you've flown them to the wall in first class with a juggle). This is one of the several significant buffs that he's got in TTT2 as far as his wall game is concerned.

Before we get to discuss Baek's wall game, let's have a look at what all stuff W!'s with this guy:
- b+4: i16, -9 on block. Tracks like WHOA to his left and a fair bit to his right. Mid.
- ff+4,3: i16 (realistically it's between i18-19 depending on your execution), first hit +2 on hit and -8 on block, while the second is +1 on block but doesn't jail. NC. Tracks both ways (homing move). Mid high.
- the 3 ender from FLA strings: -14 on block, linear (though it does catch SSL on occasion and depending on character model; SSR defeats this move). Mid. You can sometimes get this to hit if the opponent was slow when he tried to interrupt the ender with jabs.
- FLA f+3: i19 from FLA, 0 on block, tracks essentially both ways (not a homing move but tracks both ways reliably), leaves you in FLA. On CH gives crumple stun comparable to Kazuya df+2 (pretty much everything free afterwards). Mid.
- FLA f+4: i18 from FLA, -7 on block with retarded pushback, catches SS but not SW (can be walked during startup). High. More useful if you're doing iFLA version to whiff punish.
- 1,2,3,3,3,4: Yes this does wall splat, though never guaranteed, ever. -8 on block.
- FLA 3,3,4: The last kick W!'s. m,h,h. -8 on block.
- WS 3,3,4: Look above, except the first kick is also high.
- u+4,3: i28, -2 on block (but doesn't jail). NC (why?).
- df+3,4: NC, i22, delayable, HC able. The first hit is -12 on block and +1 on hit, while the second hit is -14 with a bit of pushback. df+3 tracks to Baek's left all day. Because of how this move hits, it carries an opponent towards the wall, however it doesn't W! from distance.
- (CH d+1,)4: -10 on block, tracks to Baek's left.
- f+3+4: i20, -10 on block, homing move. W!'s from far away.
- PP~3: -3 on block should you miss it (shame on you if you did). Mid, W! from very far away, does retarded damage (especially in rage).

The moves in bold are key W! moves and should always be in the back of your head. The ones in italics are debatable and definitely should be used on occasion. The ones in normal are garbage and should never be used.
Unless your opponent doesn't know how to play. Family members can be free sometimes.

The main tools Baek has at the wall include:

- d+1: It's about the same thing as Bob BR d+1. -1~0 on block, +8~9 OC on hit. On CH you can confirm d+1,4 for a LOT of damage and +5 in their face. After d+1 on block you have the option to sidestep anything they do, and punish any buttons they want to press. Or you could stuff any interruptions with CH (d+1),4 W!. But do keep in mind that d+1,4 is -10 on block.
If you went into your SS game after d+1 on block or hit, you can punish whiffs with a simple b+4 or an iFLA f+4 if you think you're cool.
Since people don't duck at the wall and (usually) don't press any buttons, you can sometimes run a game of repeated d+1's in a row.

If they didn't try buttons, however, you can go into:

- SS 3: It is a little slow, but it does good damage and leaves you with +4 on hit, and you can stuff any buttons coming your way by a df+1 or a 4 (which on CH will W!).

Another very strong option is:
- db+3,3~f: His best low besides SS 3, this low gives you +8 on hit. +8 is just solid all around. From db+3,3~f you can go back into d+1.

This all looks sick... until you realize d+1 doesn't track. Like AT ALL. It's very easy to step d+1, and even huge characters can do it.
So, what do you have to keep them at the wall?

- ff+4: The risk-reward on hitting a ff+4,3 at the wall jumps up than it is in the open (because it W!'s for like 50 damage). This is why the opponent will fear the second hit, thus more often than not allowing you to just ff+4 in their face into continued pressure.
- f+3+4: Depending on who you're talking to, f+3+4 is a better option than ff+4 to keep them at the wall. The pros to f+3+4 at the wall is that f+3+4 is safer than ff+4,3 (f+3+4 is -10 while ff+4,3 is duckable and thus death) and you do not have to commit to any strings - it's just BAM W! - thanks.
The cons to f+3+4 is that it's slower than ff+4, and of course if you're using just ff+4 to keep them at the wall, f+3+4 is more punishable than ff+4 (because ff+4 is a safe - and is a good PP bait - while f+3+4 is -10).
The usage of the two homing moves greatly depends on the situation.

You can kinda flow like: d+1, d+1, SS 3, d+1, df+1, db+3,3~f, d+1.

That is as simple as you can make his wall game. Of course you can add in moves like:
- FLA f+3: 0 FLA on block, mid with 99.99% tracking, W!'s and on CH leads to death with CH FLA f+3, FLA f+3 W! or CH FLA f+3, FLA uf+3~5 W!

and standard, generic stuff like jabs and df+1, to try and bait the opponent into pressing a button that you can either CH or punish to get a W!.

And all this time you're doing 20 damage at a time with SS 3 and 14 damage at a time with db+3,3~f. The damage piles up pretty quick.

However, the main weakness he has is that outside of CH 4, which doesn't do a lot of damage for a W!, he doesn't have very many quick W! tools. IMO he lacks a Dragunov 1,2,1 or a Roger 1,2,3 or a Lee 2,2,3. If he had those tools, his wall game and frame traps on the wall would be a lot scarier.

TLDR: Baek's wall game revolves around poking the opponent and agitating them so that you can punish them and W! them. He's got good tools for that purpose.

Last edited by Budding Fighter on Nov 12th, 2013 at 02:53

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#15 “Quote” Edit Post
14) Mindset

Okay, you're read this far, and you now have a decent idea of how to play Baek and do his basic combos. You're approaching your first opponent, online or whatever, and you think to yourself, "Damn, how do I start?"

Here's how (this post is going to be pretty much littered with points to help out):

- When you start off, try to see how much your opponent knows about Baek. See if they can duck certain strings on block, whether they're punishing you properly, whether they are keeping you out and sidewalking left against you a whole lot. Don't be shy or afraid, try out everything. Prey on the opponent's ignorance.

- If you feel like they know Baek very well, it's going to be a rough time for you, but you still have options:
1. Tag out. I don't feel like a lot of people realize that TTT2 is a tag game, and if one character isn't working out for you in the match, try your teammate. Maybe he/she could do something, while you try to figure out what can you do with Baek against the opponenet.
2. Turtle and poke carefully. Baek is a very very good poking character IMO. Pokes such as SSL 3 and ff+4 reach out very far and do decent damage, while not being super punishable on block. If the other guy wants to keep you out, turtling up yourself and poking back safely is an option. This works especially well if you've got a significant life lead - force the other guy to come in, and while he/she is trying to find ways to get in, chip at their life very carefully.

- With Baek, patience is key. There's nothing worse than seeing a Baek player, who has neither the reads nor the experience, trying to rush in and attack, and getting pwned as a result. Yes Baek is an offensive character, and he's one of the best at his job, but if the situation does not call for going ham at someone, don't. Stay back and be patient. The time for rushdown will come, sooner rather than later. I will highly suggest trying to understand whether your opponent is awake or not.

- This might just be the way I look at the game, but IMO it's very important to know the other character and their capabilities, when it comes to playing Baek. Knowing things like specific anti-pressure the opponent's characters have is just as crucial, as is knowing what moves of theirs to punish the best for max damage, but knowing other nuances about those characters is also very much essential in my eyes. I don't suggest trying to learn the opponent's characters' entire movelists or their complete frame data, but knowing a fair bit about the character helps a lot when trying to set up offense, because it'll help break down for you, what options the opponent's characters' have, to beat the options you have. You can then use that knowledge to help set up better risk-reward situations for specific points in your game.

- While Baek is pretty unorthodox in the way he functions, there still is a need (arguably even more so) for basics and fundamentals with him. Even things as simple as SideWalking when slightly -ve/+ve/0, BackDashing when slightly -ve/+ve/0, blocking at higher disadvantages, can reveal so much to you about your opponent. If you focus on your own character as you try to set the opponent up, you're not focusing on your opponent, and even though setups play a huge role in Baek's game, adapting to the opponent is extremely crucial skill, and will help you a lot in the long run.

- Discussion with The Punisher:
Baek's a bit like a Mishima. He doesn't really want you moving around and doing stuff. He just wants you moving backwards or forwards OR attacking, because FLA SS > 90% of what you can do. So the more I back off = the more he can now use FLA setups or mixups on me
and the more I attack = the more he can use FLA punishment on me
I effectively want this guy to take risks, easiest way on that is to do SSL and make him do his tracking moves.
FLA stepping is really, really good against people who sidestep if you're in FLA. Tier one meta is for Baek to attack from FLA. But tier two meta, if the opponent tries to beat you out or SS in any way, is to use that FLA movement. Not many players use the tier two meta which is stupidity.

Last edited by Budding Fighter on Dec 4th, 2013 at 10:34

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#16 “Quote” Edit Post
15) Baek and the tag system

Baek doesn't REALLY fit into the tag system extremely well (not as well as Mishimas at the very least). He doesn't have a really good tag launcher. The string tag launchers are ass in open ground play and rather situational. iFLA uf+3 is a decent mid-close range whiff punisher. SS 3+4 is only good if you SS something, but is solid if hits (does as much damage as an EWGF). CD+3 is his 'electric' and primary whiff punisher (too bad it's launch punishable). If db+2 was taggable and didn't give that weird launch (combo off axis really unreliable) it'd have made his whiff punishment a bit safer and better at mid-long range, but oh well.

Red life Removal

Baek isn't like Nina/Bruce/Forest Law/Paul/Mishimas who can tag out of their primary launchers using their tag launchers right after those launchers. He can, however, tag out on the end of his combos in the following situations:
- Post B!, you can 3+4~f FLA uf+3. However the juggle has to have 4 hits before bound including the bound move; (launch) ff+4,3, dash 1, f+4,3~f,B!, 3+4~f FLA uf+3 seems to be max damage in this situation.
- staple juggle, B!, iFLA uf+3_CD+3 (strictly for tagging out in open space)
Good luck trying to do your wall combos from there though.
These examples are a lot more distance related, but:
(Launch), SSL 3+4~5
(Launch), d+3,3,n+3~5
(Launch), 4,3,3~f, FLA uf+3~5
(Launch), ff+4,3, dash 2,3, FLA uf+3~5
(Launch), 4,3,3~f, 3+4~f, FLA uf+3~5
(Launch), ff+4,3, dash 2,3, 3+4~f FLA uf+3~5
can be used as taggable wall carry. (In the above examples instead of ff+4,3 you can use 4,3,3~f, but that's obviously less damage) Though those combos are not his best wall carry by any means, tag combos and taking red life is so important in this game.
After a W!, you can do 3+4~f FLA uf+3~5 to tag out after the wall combo; ie, if you did a taggable launcher with your, you can do the following combo:
(Launch)~5, ff+4,3, dash 4,3,3~f FLA 3,3~f 3+4~f db+2 W! f+4 B! 3+4~f FLA uf+3~5 and return to the original character.
That was full red bar damage and it was pretty hellacious damage. Followups very much depending on opponent.

After TA's you can end with df+3+4 or HH (provided the TA filler pops the character up high enough) but you can also try iFLA uf+3 or dash jab, dash CD+3 to try and tag out.
In all these situations it's really difficult and situational being able to get a full wall combo.

When trying to tag in Baek though, since 4,3,3~f picks up really low (I'm talking 3-ring-circus low; too bad it's range is pretty terrible in that aspect), it's really good. He can pick up off of triple electrics (don't know why you'd want to though, triple electrics into Baek 4,3,3~f doesn't bound incredibly consistently if at all); Lars f+1+2, db+2~f, SE 3~5 etc easy. He can pick up off of Feng launch, f+4~5, which is really good (it's axis dependent though).

Tag Assault

TA Fillers
Baek's pretty versatile when it comes to TA filling. He's got options for different number of hits, a couple for a lot of hits.
Midscreen:
uf+3,4,3 for damage (hits after a lot of hits)
ff+4,3 for pop up TA - ie easy mode airgrab followups (hits after 6-7 hits)
uf,n,3,3,3~f into stuff you can really be unique with - when you B! early (hits only post 3 hits) (use db+2 for float ender or use 1+2,4 if you have a low pick up move)
1+2,4 - spike filler for when there's too much hits; weak damage (hits after a lot of hits)
u+4,3 - stronger and easier version of ff+4,3 (hits after no more than 4 hits)
iFLA uf+3: His standard TA filler to turn the opponent from FDFA to FUFT.
At the wall:
iFLA f+3, FLA f+3, d+4,4>4 - his strongest filler, works only if one hit at the wall (requires instant b+3~f+3, so very hard; can replace the first FLA f+3 with 2,3 for easier filler but less damage); the d+4 needs to hit for 60%, and can delay the last hit for regular scaling or grounded scaling depending on how you want to end the combo.
iFLA f+3, FLA f+3, b+4 - if the B! was two hits (can replace iFLA f+3 for 2,3 for easy mode but less damage); the b+4 does grounded damage so you need a low hitting move to pick up afterward.
f+2,1,4 - a less damaging 1 wall hit string than the above one (though if you can't do iFLA f+3 quick enough this one's better because you'll then be doing 2,3, d+4,4,4 which has ass damage).
f+4,4 - if the B! was three hits
df+4,4,4 - in a BT TA situation

TA Enders
Mostly you want to end with df+3+4 whenever you can, but here are some other options:

Midscreen:
df+3+4 - now that the hitbox is lower, it hits after a lot of things, and does unscaled damage
uf+3,4,3 - if you want to carry them to a breakable floor (requires a high float TA)
ff+4,3 - for wall carry (though you should've rather carried to the wall and TA'd then)

At the wall:
df+3+4 - again, unscaled damage is good. It requires the last hit to be a wall scaling hit and not a grounded scaling hit.
4,4 - for spike, to break through floors, only works if you haven't used up all wall hits. On Kuma/TO this is guaranteed even if you have used up all wall hits. Delay just a little to get 60%.
d+4,4,4 - on bigger characters this is guaranteed even if you have used up all wall hits. Ends at 60%.

Tag out from KND's

Whenever you get a knockdown from stuff like FLA f+4, b+4 on regular hit, 1+2,4 (if you just hit that and want to get out), df+3,4, df+3+4, f+3+4, ff+4,3, d+2, CH (d+1),4, db+2 on the side/back (it can happen on occasion, especially because of db+2's tendencies to auto SSR), 3+4, or land a f+2+3, you have the option to raw tag out safely.

There are certain knockdowns where he can get d+3,3,n+3 to float, with the possible option to tag off of it, which are:
- (f+2,1,)2 (legit combo)
- db+4 (not exactly a knockdown; full combo is possible but in tournament I wouldn't suggest risking it and tagging off of it) (legit combo)
- 1+2,4 (though you're better off doing dash 4,3,3~f if they do try and get up) (oki)

This is one of the few issues a person may have with Baek; he's certainly not as flexible as Mishimas, as far as the tag system is concerned. But he's decent.

Suitable Tag Partners for Baek
In TTT2, because the game is so balanced, you can pick Baek with anyone, really, and expect to do good damage, however, some characters are obviously better than others.
Some notes about Baek as a tag partner:
- Good user of rage.
- TA fillers are good.
- Risky play (ie can lose lots of life quick if you're getting read).
- No solid tag launcher ie red life capability is kinda shitty.
- Really good pokes outside of FLA.
- Really good offensive character (has a flow to him when you're on the offense)

Baek's netsu relationships:
He:
Likes: Hwoarang
Dislikes: Jin
Hates: Ogre

The following:
Like him: Hwoarang
Dislike him:
Hate him: Marshall Law

Some suitable partners for Baek, taking those above points in regard, are as follows (of course these are just my opinions):
Hwoarang (or Bob as I, and everyone pre Tekken-6 call him)
If you want synergy, netsu, damage and the cool tag combo. Also, if you're playing as Team Korea, you can flow between your characters better. Plus, Hwoarang's got better tools for each situation.
Team positioning (ie who should be the point character and who should be the secondary):
Doesn't really matter; Hwoarang's got better pokes in open field, slightly better punishing (because of b+3 and JFSR) and can open the opponent easier than Baek can, which Baek's got the better movement.
Players to watch: DooHanBaek (KOREA)

Kazuya
raybonekilla on why Kazuya is Baek's best Mishima partner:
I like Baek with him mostly due to the fact that their styles are complete opposites compared to each other, connected simply by their ability to wave dash into mix ups. Baek is mostly going to be used to obstruct the flow or momentum of Kazuya's tedious punishment based style. His sub par poke options, and him being forced to be in risk on heavy offense makes the inclusion of Baek more a change of pace. In combos they perform remarkably well. Devil Jin and Heihachi lack the ability to travel with their wall carry attacks. It's mostly one last hit from an attack pushing them to a wall or a laser that keeps him at a distance to far to close by himself. Kaz CD+3 brings him with the juggled character to begin a wall juggle or just oki in general. Both can attain high mid 90dmg which is pretty legit considering Baek struggles with damage off the ground.
You can also play Baek with a certain Mishima flair. using CD to force ducks, etc. I enjoy iws+21. You'll rarely play a Baek approaching you this way, but I play risky.

Team positioning:
Kazuya first, Baek secondary. Unless you're REALLY feeling yourself.
Combos:/ (Kazuya is blue, Baek is red) (more combos to add to this soon)
EWGF, EWGF db+2~5 B! uf,n,3,d+4,3 CD+3
EWGF~5 ff+4,3 dash 4,3,3~f FLA b+3 B! SSL HS,1 dash df+3+4

Armor King
He's just a lesser Mishima, really (Palm Upper is similar to WGF). His spacing game is really strong. b+4:1+2 is pretty good (and looks so AWESOME), cartwheels (3+4) is so strong, and there's always Palm Upper that you can put in their face if they whiff anything for half life.
Team positioning:
Armor King point; unless you REALLY want to start on point with Baek if you REALLY want that 3+4,2 TA filler.

Paul
Paul's punishing is far better than Baek in all places (standing, crouching and whiff punishing). His damage is so good. Demoman/hopkick is a scary mixup up close (and if you're good, you can get in with Paul as well as you can with Baek). Paul's df+2 is godlike (safe, taggable launcher; df+2, qcf+1~5 into combo). His range is much better IMO. Another good thing to Paul is that he can turn pretty much everything into red life with qcf+1 after every launch (except for uf+3 and ff+3 but really, if you can squeeze that in, just hopkick). Also, his hopekick is far superior than Baek's (i15 > i20). Paul also has a i14 launcher from standing (b+3), which might be something you want to consider.
Team positioning:
It depends on how you structure your team in general. If you're a guy who wants a turtle as point, go with Paul, or if you want a pitbull as the first dude, go with Baek. Both characters have good TA options and both use rage very well (CH clean netsu'd DeathFist = 50% just saying)
Players to watch: D. Porsche (KOREA)

Ganryu
Ganryu is good IMO (Baek's second best partner IMO, next to Hwoarang). His punishing is good (i14 launch from standing AND crouching, i10 W!), but he's got the slowest jab in the game at i12 with his standing 1 (which is +3 on block compared to most characters' +1). His pokes are super strong (df+1, df+4,1, df+2, b+2,1), and his lows are good (df+3 and FC d+1 for pokes and df+2+3 for a heavy low). His FC mixup is similar to Baek's FLA mixup (pokes mixed with taggable launchers), but much safer (FC d+1 is safe on block, WS 1 is safe, WS 4 is safe and WS 2 is only -10 and is taggable). His whiff punishing is pretty good with bitch palm (f+1+2) and bitch clap (ff+1+2~5). His TA fillers are strong (df+4,1,2).
Some problems are that Ganny's oki game isn't as strong as Baek's in general, and that his movement in general is kinda worse than Baek.
Team positioning:
Depends. Ganny's punishing is pretty good and so are his standalone pokes, so if you want a punishing/poking character to start off, he's the one you're looking for. Baek starting does more damage, while Ganny starting gives opportunities for red life damage. Both characters can use rage well (really safe pokes + rage = happy times, plus CH b+1+2 into f+3+4 does HELLACIOUS damage on CH)
For combos go HERE

These are just my recommendations for partners for Baek. However, TTT2 is pretty balanced; everyone does hellacious damage (well maybe not Xiaoharu), and everyone have their strong points and weak points in general. Pick anyone, really (and even disregard the team positioning notes I've got above), because as long as you can find ways to make the team work, no one can stahp yew.

Last edited by Budding Fighter on Nov 17th, 2013 at 19:50

Budding Fighter
^ Thanks AZYG4LYFE!
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1606
From: New Zealand
#17 “Quote” Edit Post
16) Anti Baek and Anti Anti Baek

Anti Baek points are marked with -
Anti-anti Baek points (points to beat anti-Baek tools) are marked with - -

- Baek's tracking is still really weak. 90% of his movelist can be evaded by sidewalking left. The only moves that track anti-SWL are:
ff+4
f+3+4
d+4
FLA f+3
FLA b+3
Everything else can be SWL'd.
- - If you spam the above moves on the opponent (especially moves like FLA b+3), it can be discouraging for the other player. You have to count on the other player getting frustrated of trying to sidewalk left, so as to stop them from trying that.

- Baek's range game is really weak. The best way to beat Baek is to stay outside of range two, and sidewalk left. At that range, he has VERY few options to hit you.
- - At that range, you have to make use of movement (wavedash and FLA WD) in order to get in. Moves that hit at that range include ff+3, ff+4 and SSL 3. db+2 will still whiff punish anything and everything that they might do (except for a jump back hopkick, which you can dash~CD+3 on whiff).

Last edited by Budding Fighter on Nov 12th, 2013 at 03:01

Budding Fighter
^ Thanks AZYG4LYFE!
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1606
From: New Zealand
#18 “Quote” Edit Post
17) Random info

This is where random vids and strats go... I guess.

- Here's the Baek TagCast! I was a guest on it! I'm sorry, but it's very, very long (almost 3 hours); however it's a more digestive version of the guide. Please do note that that was before I'd learned that there was nothing free after 1+3 and 2+4~b quickrise, so make a note of that.
Baek TagCast, featuring me!


- For those people who are struggling to do the Baek ff+4,3 dash 4,3,3~f FLA b+3 B! combo, here's a video demonstration. This is the best one I could find.
Mad props to Golden Eggs for putting this up
Skip to 5:30 for the Baek combo


PS: If you want to see it done solo, go to the Baek/Yoshimitsu CMV in the Juggling section, and go to 2:05

- Post FLA f+3 blocked:
After FLA f+3 is blocked, you have several options:
1) If you mash jab, you will beat anything the opponent tries, unless it's another i10 move (trade), a move faster than i10 (gets beat) or a high crush (gets beat). Mashing CH 4 is the same thing except it will also lose to i10 and i11 moves.
2) If they backdash or sidewalk, df+3~f will aggressively catch up. You can also do a jab to cancel and return to a neutral state.
3) If they just block, mix up accordingly.

Last edited by Budding Fighter on Jun 30th, 2014 at 09:43

Signature St. George loves my attitude! ("You know too much." - azL) Everything will remain at 50% of its ideal size.
"Here son do a slight dash after ff4,3 into 4,3,4 when they're flying through the air and those Nina players will stop teasing your execution at school." - Skeering
"If Baek gets your back you basically die." - Bronson
"At the bottom of the tier list, it's hard to hear the bitching from the top." - raybonekilla

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