Anti character punishment guide

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grumpy64
War Lord
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 719
From: United States
#1 “Quote” Edit Post
the purpose of this thread will be to find the optimum way to deal with different moves by different characters everything was tried using record mode. in some situations i will sacrifice damage to get a knd but if someone would like to share a superior method to what i post they are welcome.
grumpy64
War Lord
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 719
From: United States
#2 “Quote” Edit Post
Alex
12
safe on block but if you duck you can get a guaranteed fc,d/f+2. The timing is kinda strict and you need to activate the move as he is doing the second jab. an easier punish is ws+1,1. The optimum punish imho is duck and ws+2 Sadly you will usually be blocking them as ducking on reaction seems impossible imho. I would say the best way to deal with them is to kbd or what ever and get out of their range

121
kinda the same as 12 but the ws+2 punish is more dangerous. If you mess up the timing you will get hit by the mid hitting 1

122
not much different then the above 2 but the ws+2 counter no longer works. also you can block the first 2 hits then duck the 2 and get a free ws+12/ws+44/ fc,d/f+2 ws+3

123

like the rest of the above it's safe on block and it's similar in most other ways but to me the big difference is you can duck the 3 on reaction. While the move starts really quick it doesn't actually become active until his foot reaches your chin. Just block the 12 and the second you see his right leg flinch duck and punish with ws+2

dealing with 12 strings in general. While it is possible to duck 3 in 123 on reaction luckily you don't need to. You can learn a sort of option select timing for lack of a better term. The only mid in his 12 strings has a 21 frame start up. While the 2 highs both have a 28 frame start up. So you have a 7 frame window. Where you'll duck if he does 1 or the 2 highs and block if he does the mid. If the hit down to soon you'll hit the mid if to late you'll be unable to punish. Just go in to practice mode and record all 3 options and play them back.

2/f+2
safe on block but you can duck and get crouching 1 or crouching 2 you can also ss to your right and get a standing 1 or standing d/f+1

21
pretty much the same as plain old standing but if you ss and just stand there the 1 will track and hit so just do your move as soon as you ss the 2 and pay no mind to the 1

3~4

safe on block but you can ss it to the left or you can run under it and hit him from behind. If you 33 you can get a standing 1 but you need to land it while he's in the air. then you can do a float combo. If you manage to do the run under you can do d+4.4 for a combo. Lastly if you sw it right you can get f+1+4 or d+4,4

1+2

+1 on block but if you canage to duck the first hit just do ws+2 or fc,d/f+2

1+2,3

if they do the 3 you can punish with F+1+4/d/f+11 or you can sw it to the right and get d+4,4 or u/f+1+2,1+2 or u/f+3,4,3+4

1+2,4
punish with u/f+1+2,1+2/ws+2u/b+3/cc in to u/fn4. U can also u+4,2 between the 1st and 2nd hit or u can u/f+4. Another option is to jump over the super slow 4 and go for bt set ups.

F+3+4

leaves them in knd. as soon as you see them start to get up do d/f+3,2 this is guaranteed and will lead to a combo whether they stand str8 up or roll backwards. If he does the kicks just block them and d/f+3,2 as he stands

3+4
punish with f+1+4 or d/f+11. you can also swr and get u/f+1+2,1+2

f+3
safe on block but you can easily counter with a standing 1 into a float juggle as it is easy to see or you ca swr it and get something as slow as u/f+1+2,1+2
F+4
technically it's safe at -2 but it leaves him BT you you can get some stuff if you block it. 22 will beat him if he tries to turn around and block. if he tries to jab out of BT you will get a counter hit. However if he ducks 22 will whiff. If you think they will duck you can do d/f+11 or f+1+4. or even u/fn4 If they are silly enough to do BT 3 you can get a guaranteed ws+2. So really all you get is a mix up but it's way in your favor. At least it seems to me like it is but i'm not a roger/alex player Your best mix up is probably 22 and u/fn4. The reason i like u/fn4 is because it leads to decent combos and if you guess wrong it's only -11 but if you do f+1+4 and they didn't duck you'll get juggled.Also with u/fn4 you will jump over any attack he tries to do out of crouch. Just be sure to let the jump animate before hitting 4. If you hit 4 to soon you'll get hit by his move.

f+4,3 strings
After blocking the first 2 hits just mash 22. If they stop u get a punish. If they do f432 u get a counter hit. U can also Ss2 against the 3rd hit but very difficult to do on reaction due to ogre's horrible ss

F+1+2
safe on block but at -6 you at least get the chance to take the advantage. You can ss it to the left and land u/f+1+2,1+2. You can also counter it with 122. d/f+11 also works but i find that you will trade hits a lot so 22 and 122 are your best bets imo. in the end you should probably just block though as ogre's ss/sw suck and you will often find you self ssing only to get hit anyway. The counters are also difficult in a actual match.

f+1+2,2
you can land 22 on block

dealing with the f+1+2 strings in general.
First you need to learn whether the 3 is coming or not and it's not that hard. If the 3 is coming just keep blocking and punish with 22 if no 3 then do b+2. if they hit a button b+2 will land as a ch for big damage. Of course the can easily just ss after they f+1+2 in which case add d/f+2 to the mix as well as f+4 to catch their ss. They can also duck but no matter as d/f+2 will hit them. So if you think they may duck you should use b+2/d/f+2/ff+3 as your mixup. You can also add iws12 and d/f+1+2 along with u/f+1+2,1+2 assuming you can hit confirm it B+1 is also good for hitting crouchers

d/f+1
safe on block but you can step it to the right and get d/f11

d/f+12
-10 on block so a jab can land but it's tight

dealing with d/f+1 string in general
if you step the d/f+1 just do standing 1 as it will hit whether do the 2 or not but the 2 will hit you if you try to do d/f11

d/f+3

-8 on block but u cant really do anything as he has a follow up that will hit if u hit a button it also tracks really well

d/f33
you can duck the 2nd hit and get fc,d/f+2 but you will get hit if he does d/f+3 and follows it with d/f+4. The safest option is to just do a crouching 1 if you block d/f+3.

dealing with d/f+3 strings in general
just block the first hit and do a couching 1 but i'm trying to find something better ok 1 thing you can do is auto duck after d/f+3. if he does the 2nd 3 do ws+12 for 34 damage but if the 3 doesn't come out you have time to just let go of the stick and neutral block any attack that he does . This is a better option then just doing crouching 1 as it's safe if you do it right because u will react when he doesn't do the 3 plus it does more damage

d/f+4
-4 so it's safe on block but you can step it to the left and get 122. After blocking it you can't really use the same mix ups that u can in some of the above situations as a simple jab by alex will shut down any move you do except a jab of your own . So you need to add high crushes to your mix up. If i'm ahead i actually like to just go for a throw or maybe just a standing 1. If i'm behind i go on the offense and try to mix it up

d/f+1+2
-4 so safe on block and it forces you to crouch but if you step it to the right you can get d/f+32 fore a spike or u/f+1+2 and u/b+3 for damage. If you block it and need to catch up you can go into a mixup from fc if they mash a button ws+11 and ws+44 will beat anything they do. fc,d/f+2 will beat any high they do but get stuffed by quick mids plus if they just block your in real bad shape

d/f+3+4
Can be stepped to the left must be blocked low. If blocked it leaves them in knd They can not escape fc,d/f+2 as it whether they get up stay on the ground or roll back but it does like 12 damage. Imo you are better off going into a mix up if they stand up as the fc.d/f+2 only does 20 damage. plus if you wait and they roll back you can d/b+1 on reaction for a bound. If you step it which is very hard imo and must be done on a read and not reaction you can take their flank and get a lot better stuff particularly if they back roll. Basically all the back roll set ups that work off of fc,d/f+2 will now work but you may need to ss back to the right to realign the characters.

d+1
-5 on block but if you step it to your left u can get f+1+4 and u/f+1+2,1+2. It can also be parried. If you block it you can do b+2 to fish for counter hits. If they do any ws attack you will get a counter if they stand up and ss it will it due to the - frames. If they stand up and block you will have the frame advantage . Of course they can just stay ducking and make it whiff d/f+11 and u/f+1+2,1+2 will both hit them if the stay ducking. Even if they do another fc+1 you will beat it. The mix up i like to use is b+2/u/f,1+2,+1+2 u/b+3 only as a hail marry as it's -infinite if they block it. Last use ff+3 if they duck it hits and i get a combo if they block it i get the frame advantage. I know that's not a traditional mix up as it has no lows. It, more of do they want to give the frame advantage mix up or risk getting CHed mix up.

D+1N2
-10 on block so you can get his jab strings the bad thing is the 2 will beat a lot of the things that blow up a stepped d+1.

the safest way to deal with d+1/d+1n2 is to step the D+1 and hit d/f+11. If the stop at the you will get a decent punish and if they do the 2 it will land as a counter hit. You can do other things but d/f+11 is the most reliable.

d/b+1+2
-5 on block but the computer counts d/f+11 as a punish for some reason. If you block it you should go for mix ups and counter hit surfing using d/f+11/ b+2/ff+3

d/b+3+4

-0 on block but not to hard to deal with as it has a slow and obvious start up. You can land a CH f+1+2 on reaction. as well as d/f+11 which is easier but does less damage but your best option is likely B+2 easy to land and leads to a combo if you step it to your left you can get d/f+1+2

d+1+2,1+2 hold back
safe -1 on block but you can duck it and get ws+1 after ducking both hits fc,d/f+2 between first and second hit. If you anticipate it you can do d/f+32 for a good oki situation. if blocked i like to mix up between b+2 and ff+3. FF+3 will catch them if they try to duck the B+2. They can d+1 the ff+3 but then B+2 will hit as a ch if they try to ss they will get hit or be forced to block depending on which move you do and which way they step you can also for for a throw mix up.

dealing with the d+1+2 strings which would also include d+1+2,1+1,1

if you manage the duck fc,d/f+2 is you best bet as it is gonna hit regardless of whether they do 1 2 or 3 hits actually ws+2 will as well. Stepping is where the number of hits they do will make a difference. They only catch alls are 122 and ss then duck and do fc.d/f+2

d+3+4
if blocked you can get ws+2 . You can counter hit it with u/f+1+2,1+2 for good safe damage. For higher risk reward you can do u/b+3. U/fn4 also works but is far more difficult option then the other 2 and you'll find yourself just jumping over alex more times then not.

d/b+3
an annoying little low as he doesn't duck much before he whips is tail around. I find it to be one of his hardest lows to see and react to. Luckily if you block it it's -27 and you can get a lot of crap. Your entire ws/fc arsenal is at your disposal. You can cc and get things like u/f+1+2,1+2 and even f+1+4. If you have real good reactions and or reads you can counter with u/b+3. but i would say the best show of move is to cc into a u/fn4 juggle possible but hard at least for me it is.

d/b+4 strings
after blocking the first wait just wait and watch as you have time to react. If he doesn't continue the string you have time to land d/f11 at the very least. If he does d/b+41 you can do d/f+1+2. If he does the d/b+43 string you can rhythmically mash u/b+3. I don't mean just mash like a crazy person but if you do it correctly ogre will keep blocking as long as he continues the string and juggle him with u/b+3 when he stops. Only way he foils the plan is if he does d/b434 hold back as it will cause the u/b+3 to whiff and is very hard to punish in general

b+1 strings
nothing is guaranteed on block but if they go beyond just B+1 you have the advantage if you step it to the left just do 122 it it's regardless of whether they extend beyond b+1 or not. If you duck B+1 you can play it safe and do fc+1 can't find any frame data on it's but it's safe. If you want to take a risk you can mix up between fc,d/f+2 and ws+2 after ducking B+1 if they stop at B+1 you risk getting hit blocked for decent damage. fc,d/f+2 is guaranteed if the do anything beyond B+1 ws+2 isn't but it's to mix them up if they do b+1 and stop for a safer but less rewarding option you can do ws12 in place of ws2 which is safe but far less rewarding.

B+2 strings
After blocking the first hit you should duck. If he does b+23 you will block the 3 and you can get a guaranteed ws+2. If he stops you can force him to eat a fc mix up . If he does B+2,4 you'll duck the 4 which is high at which point you can get a free ws+2 The recovery time on a ducked B+2,4 is pretty bad so you should be able to ws+2 on reaction every time he finishes with 3 or 4 but if ws+2 on a bducked B+2,4 is giving you trouble just do ws+44. If they are rude enough to foil you plan by doing b+2 then following it with a quick mid a couple B+2 counter hits should teach them some manners. Another option is to just stand and block after you realize that they are just doing B+2 but you give up your fc mix up

B+3
safe on block but it is - frames. You can get 22 if you step it either way. If you block you should do a mix up of B+2/f+2 for a safe mix up or B+2/d/f+1+2 for a risky mix up. The only way they can escape being forced to block B+2 is to duck and of course d/f+1+2 and F+2 both hit crouchers you can also throw in fc,d/f+2 to add a low but if you do that you have to add ws+2 to hide your intentions when they see you duck . In short hunt for counter hits and frame advantage WIth B+2 and try to mix them up with ws+2/fc,d/f+2 and spinkle in f+2/d/f+1+2 to punish people who think to duck the B+2

b+4
-11 on block so ws44 is guaranteed you can also parry it. U should never be blocking this move though as the start up is huge at 27 frames. You can easily land b+2 on reaction you can also double step it to your left and get d/f+1+2

b+1+4
Unblockable but 69 frame startup so u have time to do what ever u want

u/f+2
-14 on block but it leaves u crouching on block. The easiest ption is to do f+3 as it will hit regardless of what they do then you can make them eat mix ups and d+3+4 is sometimes guaranteed u can also go for d+44. It has a sweet spot timing that will hit them regardless of whether the roll back or stand up. If timed correctly it will hit rollers and force them to be fdft and hit them in the back if they stand up. The draw back is if they just lay there as it doesn't hit grounded. The option with the most utility is d+3+4. It hits grounded for 20 damage. If they stand u get 27 damage plus u will force them to be BT more times then not. If they roll back d+3+4 will float them.

hop kick
On block you can get d/f+11. If you step it in either direction you can get d/f+1+2,1+2 and u/b+3

u/b+3 strings
Just block the flip and juggle with d/f+2 and go from there

u/f+3+4
-3 on block but you can step it to your right and get d/f11. Or you can just do a single back dash as it is slow and has terrible range

ff+2
You can get 22 and d/f11 on block. Or you can counter it with u/f+1+2,1+2

ff+4
-15 on block but the push back is huge making it effectively safe. However if you anticipate or have fast reactions you can just counter with u/f+1+2,1+2 or even u/b+3

ff+1+2
Safe if u block it standing but if u duck u can get WS+2

ff+3+4
Safe on block but u can duck it and get fc,d/f2 or u can interrupt and get 32 for a float

BB+4
safe on block but you can step it and get u/b+3 direction doesn't matter. U can counter it with u/b+3

cd+1
U can block and do u/b+3 or step it to your right and do d/f+1+2 or you can check it with b+2

cd+1+2
U can block and get d/f11 or f+1+4. You can step it to your right and get u/f+1+2,1+2 or d/f32 or even d/f+1+2

fff+3
they have the advantage on bock but you can
step it and get d/f11 or even u/f+1+2,1+2

fff+3
Step it to your right and do u/f+1+2,1+2. More effectively you can just do 1+2 when u see the move coming

ws+2 strings
-7 and -13on block so u have the advantage. If u anticipate u can counter with d/f11. If you block the WS+2 u should just block and punish if they continue the string. however if u are behind u can get a safe fc mix up. By safe I mean u can time the crouch so that it will come out if they stop at ws2 but u will remain blocking if they don't. u can also time throws the same way. It should go without saying but don't do it with wm as the d/f destroys your blocking

ws3 strings
When you block ws3 which is -20 on block just time u/f+1+2,1+2 so that u will block if they do they follow up 3 or get a punish if they don't. The move has 16 frame start up so u have a 4 frame window. So just wait until the recovery frames have started and do the move with in 4 frames. U can also use d/f32

ws4
-5 on block but u can step it to the left and land d/f11

fc,d/f2
block and 22

fc,d/b+1+2

D/f11 on block or u can step it to your right and land u/f+1+2,1+2

fc,d/f4
Block and WS+2 or u can ch with u/b+3

BT3+4
-15 on block can land u/f+1+2,1+2 and d/f+3,2, or u can counter with u/b3

BT,d+1
safe but it's like -10 so you have a huge frame advantage if you block it.

b+1+2 strings
u/b3 if his hands spin unless you are out of range. then d/f32 works well. If he does the lunge punch duck it on reaction and do a quick fc,d/f2. If he does the overhead looking punch u/f1+2,1+2 is easy to land on reaction. The main thing is to be patient because if you just mash buttons when you see the animation you may get CH
If you want to be super safe just hit 22 as it shuts down pretty much every option they have. The draw back is the damage is poor. The key is you must hit it before the bd animation is over. Safe isn't always best though.

b+3+4 strings
Mix up between blocking and ducking. Ducking is actually negative for you as it never leads to much damage. Just the same u want to do it once in a while in order to bait the mid ender as it's -19 on block. If you block and the do the high ender keep in mind they have a massive +7 advantage.

b+3+4 charged

Soon as u see his hands light up hit 22

Last edited by grumpy64 on Dec 28th, 2013 at 12:44

grumpy64
War Lord
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 719
From: United States
#3 “Quote” Edit Post
alisa

standing 1 strings
she just 1 it's + on block. If she 12 -7. B+2 will catch her if she ss
in either direction. But miss if she ducks. U/f+1+2,1+2 will catch if she ducks. D/f11 also works. 122 leads to a free ws4. u should block when she does 1. If she does 12 mix up between b+2/u/fn4. If she finishes the string both will score a ch. she steps either way b+2 will catch her. She can block it by canceling the step. If she ducks after 12 u/fn4 will hit.

standing 2 string
If block standing 2 keep blocking because if they continue the string they will beat any button u hit. If they do 23 u can get 22 for37 damage. If they do the 3rd hit thought you will get hit. If you block the 3rd hit 22 is also guaranteed. If they do 234 you can get ws2. In summary u can gain a tiny edge by sometimes doing 22 after blocking 23. If they never do 234 it's fine to do it but if they do u should should usually just keep blocking after 23 and hope they do 233 with the random 234 thrown in.

standing 3
Just block after standing 3 if they do 32 you'll get hit. So just block and take your 9 frame advantage. so i think your best bet is to ch hunt with B2. Add in d/f32 to catch them when they try to bd after 32. still testing though. After blocking you should mix up between throws/df32/b2. Mainly throws though. Also if you think they will bd a perfectly timed u+1+2 will yield a full juggle. Done non perfectly you'll get a float for minimal damage or get it blocked

standing 4
If you duck ws44. Blocked they will be at-5. So u get a free throw attempt. If they hit a button b+2 will ch. F+1+4 will hit them if they step to your right.ub3 hits if they step to the left. Use ff+4 (the Axe kick) to punish Crouchers. U+1+2 is also good to punish crouchers

1+2
-9 on block If they do it up close counter with standing 2 to get a float juggle. If you have distance step it to the right and get ub3 or u+4.

f2
step it to your right and get ub3 or u/f1+2,1+2 d/f32 also works. If you block it they are at -5. f+4 to stop steppers. Do throws for blockers. u+1+2 for crouchers
B+2 doesn't work as her standing one is quick enough to stuff it. Instead to stop them from hitting do WS mix ups. If you duck a 1 do ws2 or ws44. U can't do ws2 every time because a 12 will stuff it but ws44 will ch the 2. Another reason to duck is to punish f3,2. If you block f32 they will be at-8. So you b2 will stuff any standing move she does. Also u can hit her with ub3 if she steps in either direction. Your best though is probably to block the f2 and duck. If she does the 3 then ws2. If not do fc mix ups. Don't worry about the mid ender as your ws2 will hit between the 2nd and 3rd hit if you time it correctly.

f3 strings
The first hit is -14 on block but if she does the extension you'll get hit if you try to punish. The extension is easy to see. your best bet is to duck after you get hit by f+3 if she continues the string do ws2. It'll hit regardless of whether she does f32 of f321. If she stops you get a free fc mix up. also need to add in d/f11 and f+1+4 once in a while as those are the punishes for f3 and if you never use them they have no need to ever continue the string thus taking away your ability to get ws2. If u duck the f3 ws2 is free regardless of what they do. Also u should never miss a punish if they do f32 or f321. The hard part imho is always getting the punish if they stop at f3 because by the time i realize they aren't gonna continue it' to late.

f4 strings
If they do the entire string you can get a free f+1+4 but u must active block. The punish for f+4 is 22 but try as I might I couldn't find a timing that allowed ogre to block if they do f41 and punish if they just do f4. So I would mix up between 22 and ws2.

f+1+2
Just block and 22

d/f1strings
Just block the d/f1 then wait a few frames and hit down. Times correctly you'll duck the 1 follow up and block the 4. If they do 4 and u block go into throw mix ups and ch hunting. If they do the high and u duck do ws2

d/f2
-9 on block so a good time to go for throws. also ff+3 is your friend do frame perfect it will hit almost all her options and if she blocks it the frames are neutral. Some standing attacks will beat it but that's when u add b+2 to the mix.

df3 strings
You can easily react to weather she will do the follow up or not. If not do 22. If she does do the follow up Parry and combo

d+2 strings
You can sw it to the left and get u/f+1+2,1+2 if she stops. If she does the entire string you can get horns if you are quick. If you block the d+2 u have guess whether she will do a follow up or not. So far I can not get and fuzzy guarding or option timing tactics to work.

D+3 strings
If you anticipate u can counter with f+1+2 or u+1+2 for an easy 100+ damage combo. The easiest option is to just parry it though. If u get hit u can block the 3rd hit and do ws2

d+4 strings
An annoying little 17 frame low poke personally I prefer to parry and punish. If u block the d+4 u have to guess whether she will do the 1+2 follow up or not. If the think the answer is no do WS+2 but if u think they will wait for the 1+2 to whiff then do ws2. So far I have not found a timing that will work versus both options. U could also do a crouching 1 which will hit regardless. If u anticipate it u can just do u+1+2 for a big juggle. Most people including myself can not block/parry this move every time though but even if u get hit u still can block/duck the 2nd hit.

d+3+4 strings

Just block and WS+2 it will hit regardless of whether they hit 1+2 or not

db+1 strings

her quickest option is db11 but easy to duck on reaction. If she does db12 u can land horns on counter hit or you can jump over and back throw. If she does db 14 u can sw 1+2,1+2,1+2 for 44 damage u can sw and get horns as well. If she does bd13 u can float with a standing 1 and do a float juggle. It is easy reaction because u can wait to she leaves the ground starts the animation. U have a few frames before the move becomes active. The problem is the starting animation to db13 looks similar to the starting animation to db14 and trying to jab her out of db14 is very risky. It's possible but just the same risky. What u can do is hit 1 as soon as she ducks u will beat both kick buttons but db13 will sneak through once in a while. U will also lose if she does db1,1. If she does db 12 the 1 will miss but u still have time to duck and ws2. Generally speaking I would just block when u see the db1animation. Unless I'm behind and need to catch up. Then I would go into a mix up your best mix up is probably standing1/ws2 standing 1 beats both her kick buttons and gives a float. U will get hit if she does db11. If do ws2 and she does db14 u will get juggled the key is to always block the 4. To do this never duck. What I mean is if u think she will do db11 just stand there and duck on reaction. That way if she hits a kick button u may miss your juggle chance but at least u want get hit. If u do things correctly u should only ever get hit when u do standing 1 and they do db11 but things are way in your favor. Of course they can always do db1 and just tap back to cancel or hold down to remain ducking.

db2 strings

All u need to do is block and time a standing 2 so that it will punish if she stops at db2 and remain blocking if she does 22. It really not that hard just hit 2 as she is recovering from db2. If u are forced to block db22 u get a free 22

db3 strings

A fast and annoying 16 frame low. Hard to react to but If anticipate it u can crush it with u+1+2 for a good combo. If u block it u can get ws44

db4

An easy to see 24 frame low just block and ws2

b+1
This moved is hard for to deal with as it's a 15 frame mid that causes her to duck early in her animation. So even if u are a robot and can react within 5 frames it will do u no good as you standing 1 will just pass over her head. She has a follow up but it's super easy to see and counter. If u block it u are at +5. I will list a few moves and what options they will stuff.
1 f+2 will stuff her follow up. But that's about it so unless u want to push her away it's not a good option
2 f+1+2 will stuff her follow up. Will stuff her Ss . will stuff her if she does any fc or ws move. Will also stuff any attempt to cancel into a standing move. It they do anything besides block or bd it will stop her. So if your opponent likes to mash buttons after doing b+1 it's a good option.

Most cases though u wanna do a high low mixup but use a mid that is hard to ss. These would include f+1+2 but if they block u are at -9. Df3+4,3+4 but if they block u are at -12

b+2strings

B+2 18 frame start up. On block u get a free 22 for 37 damage. If u ss it which can only be done on anticipation u get a free uf+1+2,1+2/1+4/ub3 ( must as to your right is on 1p side as down.
B+21 free df11 on block

Dealing with the string in general. This one is all about audio cues. If she is going to finish the string she will grunt again at the end of the b+2 animation. If u hear a grunt keep blocking if not hit 1. With practice u will be able to make the right choice almost every time. Now u may be to slow one in a while and they can duck your standing 1 but no worries. U have plenty time to block her WS attacks and if she does d+3 or d+4 u can react. It might even be possible to reverse fuzzy? Gotta test it though. OK tested and yes u can reverse fuzzy but it isn't perfect. Her fastest WS move is ws1 with a start up of 14 frames. So if u mess up the timing on the standing 1 option select and u see her duck hold back. Then once the time frame for ws1 has passed hit df to parry a low. To counter she can to a slower mid or she can slightly delay the ws1, either way the effect is the same u may hit df right into her mid. Also she can really put a damper on this strat by doing fc1 as u will not have time to block it. to counter this do u+1+2 every once in a while after blocking b+2 but only if u have shown them that u are trying to do the standing 1 option select and only if u have shown them that u are not 100 percent proficient and only if they use fc 1 to try and punish your failed option select. Really though u should learn to do the option select. It's admittedly not easy as u only have like a 2 frame window. It also works versus b+2,4 as a matter of fact it is safer and easier versus b2,4 oh and b24 is -9 on block so if she does that just work your frame advantage. Use quick mids to catch ducks and back dashes. If she steps in either direction f+1+2/f+1+4/df11/u+4 will all hit
For lows I would use db4. Now she can Interupt all your mids sans db1 with a crouching 1 but this is a good thing because once she starts doing that the mix up game swings heavily in your favor. If u anticipate she will do a crouching 1 a quick ss2 and u+1+2 are both guaranteed. Throw mix ups also work well.

b+3
Homing mid with a 20 frame start up -9 on block. unless u have 10 frame reactions it is not possible to interrupt on on reaction but if u anticipate it lots of your moves will beat it out just remember u have a decent advantage after blocking it

b+4 strings
B+4 15 frame start up if u block do 22
B+43 if u block do 22
B+43,1+2 just 22 after b43
Dealing wiing in general not possible to option select on this ne as far as I know. What I do is assume they will do b43 then try to react when they stop at b4. Not saying I can react every time but I think it's the best way to handle the string. U are better off being late on your punish then early because if u are early and she does b43 it's a knd. Now if she sees u are late on a lot of your attempts to punish b4 she can duck your jab and punish with a crouching 1 but if she starts to do that just do u+1+2 after blocking b+4 sure she will get a knd if she continues the string but u can get 100+ off of u+1+2.

b+3+4 strings
B+3+4 -17 on block so punish with bf212
B+3+4,3+4 don't pay it no never mind a dumb and useless move so far as I can tell

Dealing with the string in general just Do ub3 u get a combo regardless of what she does

b32
A 65 frame start up UB. Just use horns or u+1+2.

ub3+4 strings
Ub3+4 slow and easy to see but +1 on block just do horns or u+1+2 as she starts to fall back to the ground. It is a legit punish so long as u aren't to slow.

Ub3+4,1+2 just don't pay it any attention as u will hit her out of it regardless of whether u do horns or u+1+2.

Dealing with UB+3+4 strings in general just do horns or u+1+2 as she starts to fall back to the ground. Both movers will hit regardless of whether she does the full string or not.

uf3strings
20 frame start up -55 on block punish with horns or u+1+2

Uf32 -13 on block so if u block it do df11. U can also step the 2nd hit and get 1+2x3/f+1+4. I prefer 1+2x3 as it never whiffs

Uf3,3+4 -0 on block. When she starts to fly towards u just do fly 12,34,db1 and go from there

Uf3,f+3+4-0 on block punish it the same as uf3,3+4

Dealing with uf3 in general luckily all her options are easy to see. If she just starts to fall back to the ground that means she is gonna do no follow up or uf3,3+4 u+1+2 will juggle if she does no follow up but will only knd if she does uf3,3+4. Your best bet is to dash in after blocking uf3. If she lands and does nothing do horns. If she dashes forward do 32,db1. Fly12,32,db1 also works but will sometimes whiff if she does uf3,2 just block and df11

UF4 strings
Uf4-13 on block do df11 or df212
Uf44-11 and forces u into crouching if u block it so do ws44.

uf+3+4
33 frame start up -9 on block. If u are close u can run under and get 22/df11/uf+1+2/d44/u+4 in her back. Or u can just do a guaranteed back throw. If u are a couple character lengths away u can bd and do horns but strict timing much easier if bd u+4. If u are in no mans land and can't dash under or bd to cause a whiff u can do a standing 2 and land a juggle

ff+2 strings
Ff+2 17 frame start up -17 on block if blocked do 1+2x3/uf1+2,1+2/df11/df32 my fav is df32 decent damage and good oki.

Dealing with the string in general block ff+2 then u have time to see if they are gonna stop or not. If they stop do 22 if they continue block then do 22. Auto block defenses are available


ff+3 strings
19 frame start up
ff+3 -17 on block best punish df32

Ff34 duck the 2nd hit and ws2

Ff34.1+2 punish the same as ff34


Ff344 just do iws2 after the first hit

Ff344,1+2 punish it the same as ff344

Dealing with the string in general. If u want to be safe u can just is 44 after blocking ff+3 it will block punish if they stop and whiff punish if the continue. Their are better ways though. For example u can auto duck after blocking ff3 then cc into df11 if they don't continue. If u are quick it is a guaranteed punish. If they do continue do ws2. It will hit regardless of whether they do ff34 or ff344. The window is small though and unless I'm behind I usually just block everything high and punish when they finish and land iws2 when I can. If u wait for her to land from ff3 she will grunt again if she plans to continue instant u here the grunt iws2 her in the gut. The problem is if she doesn't continue u gave up rights to best punishes versus ff3 and will have to do something lame like 22.

ff4
Just block and take your 9 frame advantage.

ff1+2

18 frame start up -16 on block block and punish with df32

bb1+2
66 frame start up unblocksble. If far away just as or duck but if u are mid screen or closer u can do fly 12,34,bound for a combo. In between the 2 distances just do u+1+2

bf2
16 frame start up -5 on block if she crouch jabs after u+1+2 will hit. It will also hit her out of iws1/iws2/iws3/iws4. However if they don't hit a button they can quickly stand back up and block it. Df32 will hits everything that u+1+2 does but they can not stand back up and block it. Nobobody will duck though unless u trained them.

Versus stepers df11/df32 will hit regardless of direction but u must anticipate reaction is difficult

If she presses jab any move 15 frames or quicker will snuff her out u can also duck and do fc'df2 in anticipation ub3 will also work. Obviously if she does slower moves u can add more moves to the list that u can do.

If she BD
nothing is guaranteed but u can go for a throw.

Generally speaking I go for throws until the start hitting buttons or stepping or ducking

fff3
16 frame start up +4 on block . It puts her at + frames and it is hard for ogre's fat ass to step it. If u anticipate it u can float with a standing 1 and get a juggle. But usually u will have to block and work your way out of her fame advantage. U can also do a trick where u jump up and cause her to whiff. U can also land a ch df2 and get a float juggle but the most damaging option I know so far is ch ub3 into juggle but df2 is safer

fff2
+4 on block duck and ws2

ws1 strings

14 frame start up mid poke -12 on block 22 is the strongest punish u can get. Also if u do db1 as she ducks it will beat her every time. U can also land ch ub3 for a big juggle but I would say it's more anticipation.

Ws12
-5 on block so go for throw mix ups df11 is good as it will ch

Ws123
-10 on block so do 22

Dealing with string in general. After u block ws1 if u think they will stop do 22 but if u think the will continue do iws44 for a safe mix up if u need to catch up mix up between22/iws2 but 22/iws44 is the mix up u should usually use. Optimally assume she is stopping at ws1 and react with iws2 if she continues. This is difficult but not impossible

ws2 strings

Ws2
17 frame start up if blocked do df11. If u anticipate ub3 will beat it even if both start on almost the same frame. to test have her do standing 1 followed by iws2. Block standing 1 and do ub3 it will beat it.

Ws2,3+4
+0 on block ub3 beats it df11 after blocking ws2 will beat the 3+4. If u think she is gonna do ws2,3+4 u can block ws2 and do 32,db1 for a float juggle.

Ws2,f+3+4
+0 on block deal with it the same as ws2,3+4 or parry the low ender

Dealing with the string in general. With practice you can tell if she is gonna continue the string or not. If not do df11 if yes do 32 db1.

ws3
If she goes into the spin do fly12,1+2,34,db1 for a juggle. If she doesn't do 22. The sign is she will pull her leg back down right after doing ws3.

ws4
11 frame start up -5 on block
Just and ws2

ws1+2
Startup 20 frames -7 on block
Ub3 will score a counter hit but if u block it go into mix ups

fc,df1+2 strings
Just ub3 on reaction

BT moves
Just counter

dform1
-9 block and mix up

dform2
20 start up frames -2 on block.If u block throw mix up jab if she likes to attack.

dform1+2
Duck and ws2

dfromf+1
Duck and ws2

dformf+1+2 strings
+3 on block but if she does follow up do horns

dformd+1
21 frame start up -12 block ws12

dformD+2
30 start up -12 block ws12

dformB+2 string
18 frame start +0 but if she does 2nd hit do WS44

dformuf1+2
29 frame start up -12 cc and punish with 122

Dbt moves
Just 32 soon as you see her go into fly it shuts every thing down





Last edited by grumpy64 on Dec 24th, 2013 at 15:25

grumpy64
War Lord
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 719
From: United States
#4 “Quote” Edit Post
AO
standing 1 strings[thd]
ma is to fat to step them on reaction but if u anticipate them u can get cr.1 or fc'df1. Both work no matter if they do 1 11 or 112. If u block stand 1keep blocking. If they do 11 u have 2 choices. Keep blocking and punish with df11/f+1+4 if they do the 3rd hit. Or If they stop at 11 work your 1 frame advantage. You can also duck after 11 if they do 112 do ws2 if they don't work your frame advantage from crouching. Cr1 and cr 2 will both hit if they hit any buttons. Anything slower and df1 will catch u. U+1+2 will beat cr1 and cr2 but it's slow so u can counter it with ws4 into a float juggle. Unless u really think they will do the 3rd hit I would just block.

[red]standing 2 strings

if u block standing 2 just hold df if they do 22 punish with df11. If they do 21 I'll duck and u can punish with ws2. If they just do 2 u can go into your fc mixups. If they do 2,d+1+2 u have time to stand back up and block and punish with 22

standing 3 strings
Just hold down after blocking 3. If they do 32 u'll duck and can punish with ws2 if they just do 3 u can quickly stand back up and still have a frame advantage

4~3
Just counter with standing 2 and do a float juggle. Also if u time it right u can get a free raw tag but if u time it wrong your incoming character will get hit.

3+4
If u duck it do ws2 if u block u have a 9 frame adv

f+2
-12 but safe due to push back however if u step it to your right horns are free

f+3 strings
If u block it u have a 8 frame advantage if u step it to your left horns are free if they do the 2 follow up they will land as a ch

f+4
+4 on block but if u step it to your right up+1+2,1+2 is guaranteed.

f+1+2
0 frames on block. If u duck it ws2 is free if u step it to your right horns are free.

f+3+2
If they do it close just block and standing 1 if they do it from a far saw to your right and u+1+2,1+2

df1 strings
If they do 1 hit you are at +4 if they do both u are at+9

df2 strings
If they do 1 hit u are at +8 if they do both 22 is free. If they do the entire string df11 is guaranteed. If u step it to your right ub3 works no matter how much of they string they do.

df4
On block do standing 22

df+1+2
On block do df11. Ub3 is great for CHing this move if u have a little space u can do it on reaction.

df+3+4
On block do 22 but if you step it to your left horns are free. Df32 is easy to land on reaction if u are close

D+1
15 start up frames -9 on block use the following mix up. Uf1+2,1+2 will hit if they press a button, step in either direction, if u think they will block or bd do a throw mixup. Also use throws as your low mix up. If u really think they will hit a button b+2 will ch

D+2 strings
14 frame start up. If they just do the first hit u are at +5 but if they do both u are at +10

D+3
14 frame start up low so kinda hard to block on reaction. If you do manage to block it poor ogre has no 12 frame WS punish. So if u anticipate parry it. Ub3 will also beat it out

D+4 strings
19 frame start up. Whether u block or get hit by the first hit duck the 2nd hit and do ws2 if they just do the first hit the are at -17

d+1+2
19 frame start up block and 22. SW and horns (will hit in the back)

d+3+4
15 frame start up block and df11

db2
23 frame start up block and ws2 u can get tricky but this is your best option

db3
15 frame start up block and ws2

db1+2
60 frame start up so just do your best combo

B1 strigs
12 frame start up -8 if they do the first hit -12 if they do both but u should duck the 2nd hit on reaction and do ws2

b2 strings

14 frame start up but Tc has incorrect frame data for this move it says -8/-12 but u can punish with df32 whether he does 1 or 2 hits
d3 strings
28 frame start up but u should parry as it isn't launch punishable on block. U can also lc on reaction with ub3

b4 strings
14 frame start up first hit -5 2nd-3rd-17
After the first hit just block. After the 2nd hit u can option select time 22 so that it will punish if the stop or counter if they do the 3rd hit. Also if u think they will do the 3rd hit u can Sw and land horns in their back. U can also get a free back throw but some timing is required. Just go into the lab and practice. If u do it right they can not duck the throw or throw u before u throw them.

b+1+2
16 frame start up -9 but on whiff horns are free

b+2+3
56 frame start up UB. React and do horns

U+3
18 frame start up -8 on block just block and use this mixup df32 to catch him if he steps in either direction or ducks or hits a button. Do throws if the like to just stand block after.

u+1+2
35 frame start up +2 on block if blocked play it safe but u can hit buttons against some opponents but u need a read. If they like to do standing one after ws2 is free. Of course his faster safer options work. If they do it from close ub3 will check but timing is strict u kinda have to delay it. Safer option is standing 2 into a juggle. If they do it from around mid screen ub3 is hard to use but standing 2 still works from any distance u can also use it as a chance to raw tag just be careful or he will hit u. If u do it right he will whiff and 10 frame moves are free

uf3 strings
26 frame start up-9/-8/-15 on block. Sw to your right and df32 or u can counter with standing 1 and do a float juggle but only if they do it from close so generally u want to sw it.

uf4
Start up 15 -13 on block block and df11

ffN4
20 frame start up -8 u can counter with df11 on reaction once u learn to see the starting animation of the move. If u block it just do crouching mixups but they don't have to be old school ws2 mixups

ffN3+4
29 frame startup -35 on block land df1 on reaction and do a float juggle. Or if u don't trust your reactions just low parry.

ff+2
19 frame start up -2 on blockJust bd the 2nd hit and do df32.

ff+3
25 frame start up +6 on block. Obviously chill out if u block it but if the opponent likes to jab u can just hit df2 to get a free fc'df2 as the move leaves u crouching when u block it. U can also land a ch 22 on reaction but. U must react to the dash and not the actual kick.

ff+1+2
26 frame start up UB u can counter the dash with 22 or duck the move and land ws2

d,db+4
22 frame start up -18 on block but it has a lot of push back your best bet is 1+2x3.

bf4
Start up 18 -8 on block but if you sw it to your left 22 is free.

bb+1+2
72 frame start up ub. Ch with horns or u+1+2

fff+3 (slask kick)
23 frame start up +8 on block but u can float with a standing one from some ranges

qcb'f+1+4
66 frame startup UB

ws1 strings
13 frame start up 1st hit -6 2nd hit -8 if u block the first hit always stay blocking and work your 8 frame advantage if they do the 2nd hit.

ws2
16 frame start up - 20 on block block and ub3

ws3 strings aka infinite kicks
11 frame start up first hit -21 on block 2nd hit-19 fuzzy guard after the 1st 2 hits but the timing is strange if u do the df~b motion to soon you will still eat the low option. If you do eat the low option it's not so bad. After the next 2 hits after the low option u can do df11. It hits regardless of what option they choose


ws4 strings
11 frame start up 1st hit -3 2nd hit -15 block the first hit and pun with df11 if they do the second hit

FC3 strings
16 frame start up 1st hit-17 2nd hit -17 3rd hit -15/-17 even if u get hit by the 1st hit u can block the 2nd and parry if they go low on the 3rd hit the mid option is easy to react to but parrying 1st hit on reaction is easy

Fc,F1
19 frame start up -14 on block easy to parry or block

fc,f+2
19 frame start up -12 on block Block and 22 But the best option IMO is to use a raw tag to make it whiff. If you time it correct ogre will dodge the move with the raw tag and your incoming character can punish the whiff before AO recovers

fc,df1
19 frame start up -13 on block and ws44 or parry and combo

fc,df2
20 startup frames -27 on block so block and ws2

ss2
18 startup frames -14 on block Block and df11

ss4
18 frame startup -23 on block Block and WS 2. Seeing ss4 is possible but not easy but luckily their is a trick If you wait until the recovery frames of the as then hit db he will remain standing if the do ss2 and crouch block if they do ss4 but if you have trouble remember eating ss4 is not nearly as bad as eating ss2

Last edited by grumpy64 on May 20th, 2014 at 19:55

grumpy64
War Lord
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 719
From: United States
#5 “Quote” Edit Post
[green]ange/green]standing 1 strings 10 frame start up +1 if u duck a standing 1 and think she will continue the string do fc,df2 it beats all her followups if times correcty unless u really think 112 is coming then stand back up and block it as it's -17. if you block a standing 1 just chill as she is at +1 If she does 11 she will be at -1. Stand 22 will beat her if she hits any button. Now she can duck after her 11 and punish your whiffed 22 but it's good for us if she ducks. 32 is the safest option as u can HC it. HK also beats all her options from WS and FC in this spot but obviously u can't HC it. Generally though at +1 unless u think they will hit buttons or duck u want to just chill out if she does 112 she will be at -17. Do ub3.

F+2
Just block and do 122 or if u anticipate it you can as to your right aind do horns or for an easier punish step and ub3 or 1+2x3

F+4
19 frame start up but IMO next to impossible to punish on reaction. Even worse it's +4 on block. However plenty stuff can beat it if u anticipate it. For example you can step to your right and do UB/3. Also you can CH with b+2

F+1+2
17 frame start up and -12 on block. If u block it do 22 if you anticipate it do ub3. Even though start up frames are similar ub3 will still get the counter hit.

f+3+4
16 frame start up -16 on block (forces crouch) on block do ws44 or if you have super quick reflexes SSL as soon as u see her feet leave the ground. If u do it correctly the first part will hit u but the 2nd part will whiff leaving her BT. Pretty difficult though so probably best to just block.

Last edited by grumpy64 on May 13th, 2015 at 15:07

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