Paul wishlist: what would you change/replace?

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Sugar Free
Raijin
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 610
#1 “Quote” Edit Post
Lately I've been wondering what I would like to see in his command list and came up with a few ideas.
It's been quite some time now since I started feeling like he needs some changements, so I thought we could have a thread on how to make him better but still legit and not overpowered.
Here are my ideas:

- d/f+4: To this date, I still have to understand what's the use for this move: it is i19, appears and actually IS slow, doesn't track either sides, on CH gives a CANCELABLE stun so nothing is guaranteed afterwards. It's also not consistently usable in combo's, there are way better options in my opinion. I would really like to see something else in its place; so maybe, since Paul doesn't have any i13 standing mid, I wouldn't mind a i13 qcf+4-like kick, even -9 on block would be fine in comparison to the crap we have now.

- d+1,4,2: This string makes me rage. In particular, I'm talking about the low 4 after d+1: it is -31 on block and -17 on hit. If 4 hits, the 2 afterwards is not guaranteed and is -14 on block. 4 doesn't trip on NH and doesn't give any kind of position advantage on hit. It is not really usable in battle since it doesn't do much damage, is launchable even on hit if you don't complete the string and is very predictable. I'm not saying it should be completely safe, nor it should give any particular frame avdantage and such. I'd just like it to be -13 on block to make it usable, maybe even with a stun property like that of Heihachi's (f,n,d,D/F+4),4 so that you can't move for a while but are still just -13 and not guarding.

- d+1,2: The 2 is -17 with pushback, I would really like to see it at -16 at least, even if that results in a little damage nerf.

- 1,4: I find this to be a good move; I also sometimes find myself trying to do it after d/f+1~b with the notation "d/f+1~b; F+1,4", since, after d/f+1~b, to perform a jab, you must press F+1. Unfortunately it doesn't work with F+1,4 so you can't use it after d/f+1~b, which would be VERY nice to put pressure on your opponent. So I would like to be able to do 1,4 with F+1,4 command too.

- b+2: His homing mid. It's good until you consider its framage: it's i22; not so good on block since it's -7. I never use it since I got launched too many times while trying to. I'd really like to see it below i20, so even just i19 would make it usable for me. i17 woud be awesome and I'd give up its CH stun for this.

These are my major wishes, I don't want sheet like safe deathfist and such.
I think these changements would still leave Paul as he is (an high risk-high reward character), but with some usable moves for high level play.

Last edited by Sugar Free on Feb 16th, 2013 at 02:47

Shinjin
Iron Fist God
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 2865
From: England
#2 “Quote” Edit Post
from tekken 1 to TTT his d/f+4 was actually the i12 toe kick that ws+4 is now, they gave him the new style d/f+4 in T4.

he needs another 3 hit string, preferably with a launch at the end so if you get someone BT you can really fuck them up.

also d+4,2 should always trip, and d+4:2:1+2 on clean.
Signature Bruck him for souf east, blud

look man the move doesnt track sidestep, but if you sidestep it will hit you
steves b+1 isint safe because it only auto guards high and mid, but you can cancel it and block all lows
Jaycees u/f+4,3 is launch punishable on block but if you try to punish it the 1 follow-up will hit you
Onizuk@
Legend
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 508
From: Germany
#3 “Quote” Edit Post
My Paul would look sth. like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3b-C...vuA&index=2

All cwcheats were coded by me except the d+1,4:2:1+2. Sadamitsu helped me out.

If you have any detailed suggestions for new strings. Post them here.

My recommendation : d/f+1,1,3
about the 3:
- a mid delayable knee that causes CF
- 14f like the mids, -9 on block

Changes for d/f+1,1,2: 2 should cause at least a low wallsplat.

Sounds cheap? Just look at Laws Junkjard Kick (16f, 4 is -7 on block). Paul really needs more safe strings.

Shinjin: Agreed about TK 4 stats.
Signature TTT2U Paul punishment thread: "No pain, no gain."
http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/forum...threadid=128452
The most complete punishment thread on TZ.
"Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the director of the opponent's fate."
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Sugar Free
Raijin
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 610
#4 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Shinjin
from tekken 1 to TTT his d/f+4 was actually the i12 toe kick that ws+4 is now, they gave him the new style d/f+4 in T4.

he needs another 3 hit string, preferably with a launch at the end so if you get someone BT you can really fuck them up.

also d+4,2 should always trip, and d+4:2:1+2 on clean.


Yup I've been playing Tekken since its first title, loved his d/f+4, raged when they changed it

Totally agree with the rest of your post, especially about d+4,2.

Also:

qcb+3,2: either give him a mid alternative or make the 2 -9 instead of -10.
Rezz
Dragon Lord
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 801
From: USA New York
PSN: RezzEternal
#5 “Quote” Edit Post
More than anything, I'd like him to have a good 10f punisher. I'd like 2,3 to be NC even for reduced damage.

I'd a low option from df3.

More moves that transition into SWY, even if it's just one more move.
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Sugar Free
Raijin
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 610
#6 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Rezz
More than anything, I'd like him to have a good 10f punisher. I'd like 2,3 to be NC even for reduced damage.

More moves that transition into SWY, even if it's just one more move.


2,3 should actually be NC, especially since it doesn't jail and is unsafe.

Also I'd put ss+3 in d+3's place, and leave d/b+3 as it is.

More sway transitioning moves sounds viable too.

Please change lol-b+4.

Last edited by Sugar Free on Jan 22nd, 2013 at 22:09

Saika221
Destroyer
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 376
PSN: Saika221
#7 “Quote” Edit Post
wish that ss+3 gave free damage on CH like asuka's fc df+2
shoulder after CH ss+3 is mind = blown
Cornwallace
Champion
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 287
From: New Zealand
PSN: Cornwillis
#8 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Saika221
wish that ss+3 gave free damage on CH like asuka's fc df+2
shoulder after CH ss+3 is mind = blown

It does, you get a d+2 for some heavy damage. You then get to use Paul's mighty FC game which we all know is godlike.
Sugar Free
Raijin
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 610
#9 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Cornwallace
It does, you get a d+2 for some heavy damage. You then get to use Paul's mighty FC game which we all know is godlike.


lol

Was he close enough to trip with d+4:2:1+2 after CH ss+3's animation, that would actually be good and usable since it would have given some very good 50/50 options; but as it is, that move just serves as lol-post-maker like yours... it just makes him look like he was not "maintained" as versions passed.
USMCOgre
Money Inc.
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 22639
From: USA California
PSN: MoneyIncUSMCOgre
#10 “Quote” Edit Post
The more I play, the worse I think Paul really is in this game. He's better than he was in T6, but still not that great.
Signature The search for equality is a search for the lowest common denominator...
Sugar Free
Raijin
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 610
#11 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by USMCOgre
The more I play, the worse I think Paul really is in this game. He's better than he was in T6, but still not that great.


Most of all, what I noticed when playing him, is that he gets very predictable very fast.
I also notice this when playing AGAINST Paul.

He needs some more usable low options, some more transitions to sway, and freaking d/f+4 should be his WS4 and not the shit it is now, he'd really need a spacing move like that.

Some other moves not yet mentioned also seem kinda meh... "u/f+2"? "b+1+2"? "CH f+1+2"?
I also kinda dislike qcf+3, could be definitely better.
USMCOgre
Money Inc.
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 22639
From: USA California
PSN: MoneyIncUSMCOgre
#12 “Quote” Edit Post
the sway 3 series should just be db3 so it could be used as a proper crush move. b2 needs to be faster. I could go on all day.
Signature The search for equality is a search for the lowest common denominator...
Budding Fighter
^ Thanks AZYG4LYFE!
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1606
From: New Zealand
#13 “Quote” Edit Post
Why is db+3 -20 on block?
Signature St. George loves my attitude! ("You know too much." - azL) Everything will remain at 50% of its ideal size.
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Sugar Free
Raijin
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 610
#14 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Budding Fighter
Why is db+3 -20 on block?


It is not, it's -17 if I'm not wrong.
Budding Fighter
^ Thanks AZYG4LYFE!
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1606
From: New Zealand
#15 “Quote” Edit Post
My mistake (it used to be -20 before, didn't know it had changed).
But still...?
Signature St. George loves my attitude! ("You know too much." - azL) Everything will remain at 50% of its ideal size.
"Here son do a slight dash after ff4,3 into 4,3,4 when they're flying through the air and those Nina players will stop teasing your execution at school." - Skeering
"If Baek gets your back you basically die." - Bronson
"At the bottom of the tier list, it's hard to hear the bitching from the top." - raybonekilla
USMCOgre
Money Inc.
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 22639
From: USA California
PSN: MoneyIncUSMCOgre
#16 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Budding Fighter
My mistake (it used to be -20 before, didn't know it had changed).
But still...?
Yea, it's probably the worst risk/reward of any move in the game hahaha. Seriously, launch punishable for such a weak stupid low?
Signature The search for equality is a search for the lowest common denominator...
Cornwallace
Champion
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 287
From: New Zealand
PSN: Cornwillis
#17 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by USMCOgre
Yea, it's probably the worst risk/reward of any move in the game hahaha. Seriously, launch punishable for such a weak stupid low?

No +frames on hit (even on CH), not that much damage, and recovers in FC from which Paul has very few options. Lol...

The only reason it works a little bit is because people will rarely duck against Paul outside of clean demo man range, making it free damage. Still a god awful move.

I feel like the increased ground damage has really made all Paul matches revolve around deathfist (even more so than it used to). The raw fear of being hit by one you see in your opponents has changed the whole mentality of his game.
SymBiosis
White Trash Paul
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3280
From: Canada
PSN: centenza69
XBL: cenlenza
#18 “Quote” Edit Post
almost everyone have a stance (almost) but yeah playing paul since tekken 3 i dont see any diffrences. bruce have a stance. a lot of old chars are good in their way but i feel paul like he didnt get any good upgrades. ok new moves cool, but nerfing him, a fucking homing mid slow like b2 i never use that. if it connect it goes sideways or ch...but its a too risky. qcf1 shoud hit mid just by the way the move is done and how his elbow goes.

thank god his df2 doesnt need to be ch to launch

his jf demo man should be safe and like a ewgf when u block it

more poking tools, what the fuck u wanna do with 1,2 and all the option we have: d1 or 3 THAT IT?

LOWER THE FRAMES OF HIS D+1+2 FOR FUCK SAKE

and like ogre say we can go all day on his case
Signature if i could pray with my cock, i'd be a much more religious man -Tyrion Lannister
BlackViper55
War Lord
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 718
From: Philippines
PSN: RenegadeBlade27
#19 “Quote” Edit Post
My wishlist:

fff+3 - How come he doesn't have one? And make its KND animation similar to AK's fff+3.

fff+2 - Something like Bryan's ff+2.

More extensions for the ff+2
ff+2,d+2 - New command for ff+2,2.
ff+2,2 - 2nd hit should be an uppercut. Best used as a TA filler or wall carry.
ff+2,3 - A roundhouse kick. Should be +2 on block.
ff+2,d+3 - A low sweep.
ff+2,1+2 - Something like Leo's b+2,1+2.

f,n,d,d/f+2 - Paul WGF. JF version should make the enemy burn on block.

qcf+4,2,1 and qcf+4,2,3 - Just like qcb+3,2,1 and qcb+3,2,3 but the 1st hit is mid
Signature My TTT2 Teams:
Males: Devil Jin/Armor King, Paul/Heihachi, Marduk/Jack-6, Lee/Hwoarang, Ancient Ogre/Jinpachi
Females: Miharu/Asuka, Michelle/Jun, Kunimitsu/Zafina, Jaycee/Anna, Lili/Nina
But I always pick different teams
Sugar Free
Raijin
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 610
#20 “Quote” Edit Post
@SymBiosis

- You're definitely right about b2, so slow for no reason;
- Kinda see your point about qcf+1: just like a lot of Paul's moves it could be definitely better; but instead of making it mid, I'd either make it slightly faster or -5 on block (as of now, at -7, you cannot sidestep anything and are face to face with your opponent... we're talking about an high after all) ;
- An EWGF-like JF DemoMan sounds just wrong to me;
- Definitely agree about the pokes, I'm not asking for a plethora of them, but ONE freakin usable low and (I'm being repetitive, I know) a qcf+4-like df+4 shouldn't break the game, would they?;
- Lower d+1+2 frames? You mean on block right? Well, considering other i12 punishers (like Hei's 1+2 which is mid and safer but has less range and the general punch-kick which is high-high), I think d+1+2 is just fine; nonetheless, I'd prefer less range and more safeness (like Hei's one) since noone is gonna d+1+2 instead of, say, qcf+2.

@BlackViper55

- Wondered myself about fff+3 too, especially seing how ff+3 is the same as fff+3. Heck, even Lee got rid of that
- A fff+2 like Bryan's ff+2? I'd rather a running grab if anything.
- About ff+2, instead of adding all those options (which btw makes me think of Julia's d,df+1 ones) I'd either make ff+2+b1 faster or else the whole ff+2+1 animation faster, it is too predictable as of now and so sidesteppable it hurts your eyes; anyways I feel like ff+2 and its followups in general need a revamp, they're too old and predictable as a whole;
- The rest of you post is just a joke, no offense.

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