The Toshin video thread

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AZYG4LYFE
Play FFRK
Joined: Sep 2009
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#21 “Quote” Edit Post
Super thanks for the tips guys!


AZ
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yoloswag
Shihan
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 124
From: Finland
PSN: Chief_Sona300
#22 “Quote” Edit Post
Last weekend I participated Rautanyrkki tournament and I were playing double Ogres. I made some awful mistakes but imma think i can remove/get better w/ them 2 Assembly (another tournament) is in this weekend. I would like 2 know what do u think bout my pros and cons?

I think my problems are

- Pressing too many buttons
- Throwed bad moves (eg. uf1+2,1+2 on block)
- Bad combos (df32 instead of db1)
- Spammed some moves too often eg. Capital Punishment?
- Bad tags
- Must get better with movement
- Must block more
- Whiffed 2much
- Being 2 perdictable
- Must read better eg. when the opponent gonna tag crash
- Better punishment eg. b12 instead of jabs

Of course I can't completelly remove them but I can make huge impact by improving them. And of course more throws

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcypFPlkHyg

Match is agaist pretty good player called Kelmi.

Last edited by yoloswag on Jul 30th, 2013 at 07:11

grumpy64
War Lord
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 719
From: United States
#23 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by yoloswag
Last weekend I participated Rautanyrkki tournament and I were playing double Ogres. I made some awful mistakes but imma think i can remove/get better w/ them 2 Assembly (another tournament) is in this weekend. I would like 2 know what do u think bout my pros and cons?

I think my problems are

- Pressing too many buttons
- Throwed bad moves (eg. uf1+2,1+2 on block)
- Bad combos (df32 instead of db1)
- Spammed some moves too often eg. Capital Punishment?
- Bad tags
- Must get better with movement
- Must block more
- Whiffed 2much
- Being 2 perdictable
- Must read better eg. when the opponent gonna tag crash
- Better punishment eg. b12 instead of jabs

Of course I can't completelly remove them but I can make huge impact by improving them. And of course more throws

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcypFPlkHyg

Match is agaist pretty good player called Kelmi.


work on your spacing. I noticed a couple times u did a move when you were way out of range. 32 is not a bad combo. Can't speak for AO but a lot of ogres best combos involve 32,db1. Mainly though do better combos.
yoloswag
Shihan
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 124
From: Finland
PSN: Chief_Sona300
#24 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by grumpy64
work on your spacing. I noticed a couple times u did a move when you were way out of range. 32 is not a bad combo. Can't speak for AO but a lot of ogres best combos involve 32,db1. Mainly though do better combos.

I did df32 instead of db1 and lost the first match. 32 db1 is good combo, I know. Ye I agree with spacing.

Last edited by yoloswag on Jul 30th, 2013 at 10:42

grumpy64
War Lord
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 719
From: United States
#25 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by yoloswag
I did df32 instead of df1 and lost the first match. 32 db1 is good combo, I know. Ye I agree with spacing.

sorry just realized u said df32 and not 32. Yea df32 is pretty bad in combos.
Baron West
Iron Fist God
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1142
#26 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by yoloswag
Last weekend I participated Rautanyrkki tournament and I were playing double Ogres. I made some awful mistakes but imma think i can remove/get better w/ them 2 Assembly (another tournament) is in this weekend. I would like 2 know what do u think bout my pros and cons?


I think you have a good grasp of what you need to work on. The only thing I feel the need to mention is that when you KD with FCf+2 in open space you can usually follow-up with another one. FCf+2 FCf+2 then some quick low for wakes.
Signature An ounce of practice is generally worth more than a ton of theory.

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yoloswag
Shihan
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 124
From: Finland
PSN: Chief_Sona300
#27 “Quote” Edit Post
Footage from last tournament (Assembly) bout 3 weeks ago. I upgraded my game but still gotta work especially my movement. Dropped some critical combos which cost me match.

vs Konna

vs Hemosa

vs Vilq

Hope u give me feedback!

Last edited by yoloswag on Sep 1st, 2013 at 11:35

Baron West
Iron Fist God
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1142
#28 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by yoloswag
Footage from last tournament (Assembly) bout 3 weeks ago. I upgraded my game but still gotta work especially my movement. Dropped some critical combos which cost me match.

Hope u give me feedback!


You went for Capital Punishment too much and there were quite a few times where it cost you. It's great as a surprise move, but easy to float, or step and punish. I didn't really see you use f+2 at all with either Ogre.
Signature An ounce of practice is generally worth more than a ton of theory.

My Youtube

yoloswag
Shihan
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 124
From: Finland
PSN: Chief_Sona300
#29 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Baron West
You went for Capital Punishment too much and there were quite a few times where it cost you. It's great as a surprise move, but easy to float, or step and punish. I didn't really see you use f+2 at all with either Ogre.

Yea Capital Punishment is so good move especially with Ogres cause tracking (steppers). But I abused it, it's a bad habit. Even when I played against Killerdoll he eated it all the time.
KINGofIRONfist
Malec
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2695
From: Germany
PSN: Malec1983
#30 “Quote” Edit Post
you are using wakeup 3+4 with true ogre WAY to much. u didnt get punished for it, like you should have been, but against better players u cant do that. also you always tryed to air escape juggles against the same bruce juggles and u just take way more damage then u would have been without.
missing a lot of the top10 moves, ancient ogre f2, d4, d/f2, ffn4, b,f4.... true ogre d/f2, f2, ff3, f1+2....
yoloswag
Shihan
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 124
From: Finland
PSN: Chief_Sona300
#31 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by KINGofIRONfist
you are using wakeup 3+4 with true ogre WAY to much. u didnt get punished for it, like you should have been, but against better players u cant do that. also you always tryed to air escape juggles against the same bruce juggles and u just take way more damage then u would have been without.
missing a lot of the top10 moves, ancient ogre f2, d4, d/f2, ffn4, b,f4.... true ogre d/f2, f2, ff3, f1+2....

Thanks for the feedback. Yes i can agree with u guys. The reason why I abuse so moves is prolly when in casuals I won many matches against even when experienced players like killerdoll with couple of moves like capital punishment. And many people will not punish me . Against some characters teleport (from ground) and capital punishment works wonders like against Bruce (teleport) cause hes moves takes so long to recovery or CP against bigs especially against Jacks. Gotta use more top 10 moves, better movement and better reads. I think those are my weak points.
tyrax
Expert
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 124
From: Venezuela
PSN: RealTyraxTK
#32 “Quote” Edit Post
I've actually kind of repicked AO... It's a broken character, but I like it, what can I do about it? xD
This is the video of a local unofficial tournament we made like 4 months ago, I would apreciate your comments about my gameplay. My style has kind of change a bit since then. I'm trying to implement some attacks to my playing style.

My battles come from minute 26 on, it's a FT3: http://youtu.be/Ih-neXAC_IA?t=25m57s
Venezuelan local (unoficcial) tournament

As you can see I was a w̶h̶o̶l̶e̶ ̶f̶u̶c̶k̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶l̶o̶t̶ bit nervous and missed a few things because that player I'm playing against is known as the world's best Hwoarang (DanielPhoenix)
Signature You ask me if I have a god complex? Let me tell you something... I AM GOD.
[Ogre] [AncientOgre] : Main
: Secondary team
Baron West
Iron Fist God
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1142
#33 “Quote” Edit Post
Tyrax, you let Lars get away with waaaay too much against A.Ogre. Your playstyle with A.Ogre was very timid compared to how aggressive you were with T.Ogre, and that timidity did not work in your favor.

Lars did 1,2 df+1 to you repeatedly and you just let it happen. After you block 1,2 that should be it for his poke pressure. You can sidewalk right and it will avoid df+1, df+2 1,3 and arc blast. From there you can just d+3+4. Even if you don't want to side walk, after you blocked 1,2 you could have just done db+1 into FC, b+1+2 to counter hit, d+2,4 which will counter df+1 if Lars tries it after a blocked 1,2. Likewise you could have just d+1+2 or df+3+4 to high crush his jabs. Or if all else failed, just jab him back. That's what you did with T.Ogre. There are characters who can beat Ogre in poke wars, but Lars is not one of them. Even Nina, Anna, and Miguel can be stopped cold by a well timed db+1 mix-up.

Go for max damage when you block Lars uf+3. d+3+4 is guaranteed with A.Ogre. Likewise, fb+2,1 is punishable by d+3+4 by A.Ogre and at least df+1,1 with T.Ogre. I'm pretty sure T.Ogre gets ub+3 afterwards, but I'm not 100% certain. Never, ever let Lars do bf+2,1 and go unpunished. At least do b+1,2 or 2,1.

Some players will try to step/walk after being hit by 2,1. If you think this is going to happen you can either 3, or df+3, and they won't be going anywhere. Lars cannot uf+3 under either of those moves after 2,1 hits. Since lightning screw goes under d+2...you should poke Lars with 3. I also find myself using 3 against Hwoarang a lot. I didn't see much f+2 with either Ogre, but I use that a lot against Hwoarang.

ws4 by itself is a strong move. It's incredibly fast, +8 on hit and only -3 on block. When it hits, don't be afraid to follow it up and continue your pressure. As people have a tendency to hit buttons after being hit by a single ws4, you can test the waters with just about anything that's 16 frames or quicker. Depending on how far away your opponent is, you can db+1 again.

Your opponents need to respect your WM. You should be using running WM much more often with both Ogres. A.Ogre has better ways to set RWM up, but T.Ogre's is harder to see. It's very good in general, but great against moves with pushback. The surprise factor is what makes it so useful. People expect WM after jab strings but usually have a hard time breaking it when it comes out of a dash.

All of Lars meaty lows are punishable by ws2. I'm not sure what the notation is, but that lunging elbow Lars does (ff+1+2?) is safe on block, but is super easy to see and just step d+3+4 or ss2.

Lots of nice comebacks, btw.
Signature An ounce of practice is generally worth more than a ton of theory.

My Youtube

tyrax
Expert
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 124
From: Venezuela
PSN: RealTyraxTK
#34 “Quote” Edit Post
Thx a lot for your advices Baron West. For my it's easier to be more agressive with Ogre due to the outstanding range he has with the arms, a lot of fast and very long attacks. I like AO better than Ogre, nevertheless It's kinda harder to play AO.
Do you really think it's easier to throw WM with AO? For me it's very very hard. I have no problem throwing WMs out of the blue with Ogre, but for AO I havent found any good set ups for it yet. Do you have some good set ups for WM with AO?
Signature You ask me if I have a god complex? Let me tell you something... I AM GOD.
[Ogre] [AncientOgre] : Main
: Secondary team
Baron West
Iron Fist God
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1142
#35 “Quote” Edit Post
No problem, Tyrax, I have some experience with the Lars match-up.

You can use RWM the same way you would a Shining Wizard with Kings/Changs/Lars. For A.Ogre the set-ups are fairly straight forward; it will work after any ground hit. For example, df+3 df+1+2. Tap df after the df+1+2 hits then dash towards your opponent and df+2+4. People tend to stand after getting hit by df+1+2 on the ground, so they will most likely get caught by the grab. From there you can either mix-up the grab, or hopefully they'll decide to recover ducking which will give you more options. While some people will lay on the ground after being hit by b+1,2 or 3+4, lots of people will recover standing, and you can do the RWM to catch them as well. It will work after any knockdown where you know the opponent will recover quickly.

Since so many character have ISW, you don't really see a whole lot of dash buffered rodeo spins, mad axes, or waning moon anymore, but all of them are still really great for putting pressure on your opponent.


Found these videos of Chamberjin using Dual Ogres. Very solid gameplay.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMEC1Nvxg04

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAVsZtQL6I4





Last edited by Baron West on Oct 1st, 2013 at 12:49

Signature An ounce of practice is generally worth more than a ton of theory.

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AZYG4LYFE
Play FFRK
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5389
From: United Kingdom
PSN: CKT_AZYG4LYFE
#36 “Quote” Edit Post
Baron West, whether offline or online, I am really keen to see you you play Ancient Ogre!


AZ
Signature Currently playing (addicted to) FFRK. Global Friend ID: GBNP JP Friend ID: QZseY
Twitter:@AZYG4LYFE Please PM or tweet me if you have any questions/issues! ラッキークロエ twitch.tv/AZYG4LYFE


Baron West
Iron Fist God
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1142
#37 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by AZYG4LYFE
Baron West, whether offline or online, I am really keen to see you you play Ancient Ogre!


AZ


Thanks AZYG, that's flattering. I'm just another bloke who likes Ogres.

Excuse the poor a/v quality.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuADqgJqUY4

A casual match online. Could not break a throw to save my life, but the match was super fun.


Tyrax this is an example of RWM, though probably not the best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFv-Vzf_LwI

I use this set-up often in infinite stages. If I use FCdf+2 (27 damage) and do a ffn4 and they tech(13 damage) if I follow-up with RWM I get another 112 tag assault damage or 93 red bar damage.

Last edited by Baron West on Jul 23rd, 2019 at 16:57

Signature An ounce of practice is generally worth more than a ton of theory.

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USMCOgre
Money Inc.
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 22641
From: USA California
PSN: MoneyIncUSMCOgre
#38 “Quote” Edit Post
Nice. That's the same AO team me and Fab use too.
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tyrax
Expert
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 124
From: Venezuela
PSN: RealTyraxTK
#39 “Quote” Edit Post
Lol, I though I had already answered your latest advices, it seems like I didn't, sorry :s

I definitely need to try that Buffered RWM, seems really usefull I didn't even knew that could be done,

After FC df+2 I use to do a df+1+2, so if I see they try to reduce damage be moving I can next time step in and do a 3,2, or a d+1 directly. Lately I'm kinda liking a lot AO's d+1, it disrupts the other players momentum
Signature You ask me if I have a god complex? Let me tell you something... I AM GOD.
[Ogre] [AncientOgre] : Main
: Secondary team
Baron West
Iron Fist God
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1142
#40 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by USMCOgre
Nice. That's the same AO team me and Fab use too.


Thanks Ogre. Back when WTF was up and running, I did download a vid of Fab using this team. His A.Ogre is pretty good. The only match I got of you was you perfecting some poor schmoe with Paul and Jack-6 and against some solo in ranked. The problem with WTF was when you tried to download ranked matches it showed the last matches, rather than the last matches with that character. Beggars can't be choosers though. Now players really do have to upload vids to youtube.

Originally posted by tyrax
Lol, I though I had already answered your latest advices, it seems like I didn't, sorry :s

I definitely need to try that Buffered RWM, seems really usefull I didn't even knew that could be done,

After FC df+2 I use to do a df+1+2, so if I see they try to reduce damage be moving I can next time step in and do a 3,2, or a d+1 directly. Lately I'm kinda liking a lot AO's d+1, it disrupts the other players momentum


RWM is definitely something you want to do. Just tap df then ff to dash and then df+2+4. The buffer window in-between the time you press df run toward the opponent and then do df+2+4 is huge. It's a strong tool in A.Ogre's game that was popularized in TTT1. Ogre was so beastly in Tag1 you didn't see it often(because people would use his mid unblockables) but it was major threat. It was also unique to Ogres as Wang did not have it in Tag1.

Originally I liked to just df+1+2 after FCdf+2 because it was simple quick damage. However after playing with Anna a little, I got greedy. I realized that if you can trick your opponent into tech rolling you could nail them with a f+3,2 tag assault. I usually do this by crouching and going for a FCf+2. If I hit this once, my opponents will generally try to tech roll the second time they get hit by FCdf+2. I'm going to try your d+1 tactic though.

d+1 is not a move I use often, except against capos/low stance characters. I know Xiang used that move a lot in his matches. Originally I didn't care much for u+3, but I've learned to appreciate that move a lot. Due to the range, I think it's A.Ogre's best low crush.
Signature An ounce of practice is generally worth more than a ton of theory.

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