Unknown changes summary

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Jason4579
Dragon Lord
Joined: Feb 2012
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#1 “Quote” Edit Post
There are obvious changes to her movelist over from Jun which have been listed in the movelist thread, but her gameplay needs to be tweaked based on these changes.

New additions

u/f+2,1

The first hit is -18 or worse whilst the second is -20 or worse. If the first hit is blocked, the second can be interrupted pretty easily.

u/f+2,2

The second hit of this string has a minimum distance and will not hit an opponent that is close to Jun. What's worse, this string can be confirmed by an opponent and punished with unblockables, since they have plenty of time whilst the second hit is whiffing. Really, that's how bad it is to do this string from 0 range.

Notes about the above strings

The strings can be transtioned into from b+2,1, b+3_IZU 3 and WS 3.

If transitioned into, the first hit becomes -12.

Right now, I've got the first move as i20, but this is very likely to change as it's hard to test for me due to the hitbox.

The first hit has three different animations depending on the input. u/f+2 gives the regular, forwards-pointing spike, u+2 gives a vertical spike and u/b+2 gives a non-launching, backwards-pointing spike.

Whilst both moves are horrible to do in an opponents face, they can be used as whiff and raw tag punishers due their huge range.

Whilst u/f+2,1 will track the opponent, there is a limit to the distance that the spikes will appear from, although the second hit of u/f+2,2 doesn't have this limit and will always appear above the opponent.

1+2

Unknown new unblockable replaces a rather useful move of Jun's and is a big nerf. This move will create a glowing circle of light on the floor a few spaces away from unknown. If the opponent steps into this circle of light then an animation will begin and they will take damage before being forcibly tagged out.

Unknown has no way to cancel this move which is the worst part about it. If the move whiffs then she'll be completely open for just under 4 seconds.

The only good part about the move it will affect an opponent who has been splatted, meaning that a tag assault that ends in a high W! can enable Unknown to use this move as a wall combo <-- needs confirming, although it's been used to great affect in combo videos

d+2

This move now has extended range and hits grounded, giving Unknown a boost to her Oki as it will float backrollers whilst still causing a chunk of damage to opponents who stay grounded.

d/f+1+2

A throw with a changed animation. Unknown creates a wall before hitting the opponent through it. If done when the opponents back is to a wall, unknown will use that instead. Unknown can break walls and balconies this way.

The throw gives zero oki in either situations and that's a huge nerf over Jun, although the throw will cause 4 extra damage against a stage wall and can net you even more if used against breakable walls or balconies. The throw can also be great for getting away from walls as it will leave you can your opponent very far away from where you first initiated the throw.

When partnered with Jun, d/f+1+2~5 becomes a unique tag throw, although this throw cannot break stage walls or balconies.

u/f+4,3,U

Holding U after u/f+4,3 against a standing opponent will initiate an extra two hits. The second can break walls and balconies, but will do less damage than her staple combo out in the open.

SS 2,B

A buff from Jun. After the first move hits a standing opponent, a giant hand will smash the opponent back to your feet. It will cause extra damage if the hand appears from a wall, but it will not hit if the opponent is stopped by a wall as the hand will not be within range.

b+1+3_b+2+4

Jun's taggable reversal has been removed and replaced with this strange parry. The active frames are extremely weird and I admit that testing it has been a nightmare so I haven't got much on this move right now, although right now it looks like it only gives a few +frames and does a small amount of damage.

b+4,2

Still the same move, but the second hit KDs on NH instead of launching on CH. The second hit also has a larger hitbox due to the spike that it creates out of the ground.


Standing game differences

b+4,2 giving a KD allows Unknown a free mixup when punishing -13 to -15. Use this to take another chunk of life from your opponent.

b+2,1,2 should be your new mid option off of the string. Jun only gets 2,2,1 for a KD to punish opponents who try to duck whilst Unknown gets a full launch.

u/f+2,1_2 can be used to great effect to punish raw tags and whiffed moves which Jun is unable to due to the opponent being too far away. The first hit can also be safely thrown out across stages for a chance at free chip damage, but it will whiff if the opponent is sidestepping. Even if the move whiffs, Unknown will still be safe, unless the opponent is another Unknown user who will punish using the same move.


Combo differences

Her new b+2,1,2,2 transition will hit after any 6 hit or less combo (including bound but not launcher) and will cause more damage than any of Jun's enders. This will affect the following three staples.

launch, 3, b+4,2, f+3,f+1+2, IZU 1+2 B!

b+3,4,(1)+4,2, f+3,f+1+2, IZU 1+2 B!

b+3,4,1+4,2, d+2 B!


The ender will connect on all opponent sizes, but will only be consistent if done as soon as possible. The best way to connect it is if you do a dash that is quick, but big enough so that the second hit will still connect.

The new u/f+2,2 string is also brilliant as a TA! and for ending a combo after a TA! due to two facts.

-The second hit spikes
-The second hit has infinite range

These two properties make it perfect for some partners, especially those with longer staples, such as Nina.


Customization

Unknown currently has zero options and decals cannot be placed on her default outfit. 2P unknown has the same outfit but instead has white hair.

The default outfit is animated though. The purple skin that coats her body will continuously spread and recede.


Glitches

Her 1+2 can hit her partner during TA!.

If unknown's tag partner hits their opponent and then tags her in, Unknown's b+1+3_b+2+4 will have the hit effect of her partners until she in-turn hits her opponent with an attack of her own.

If Unknown's opponent is hit with her 1+2 whilst tag crashing out, they will take the damage the usual amount of time later. Unknown will stay in the whiff animation for the duration of the move.

Last edited by Jason4579 on Apr 27th, 2013 at 00:53

Vandy2
Expert
Joined: May 2012
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#2 “Quote” Edit Post
She also has u/b+2,1 and u/b+2,2. Those are not NC like the u/f versions. Not sure the use, maybe to consistently hit range 0 since the purple stuff points the opposite direction in the u/b version.
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Jason4579
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#3 “Quote” Edit Post
Oops. I tested them all out yesterday but I just missed them when i was writing everything up. I'll add the information for them that I've got.

u/f+2,1_2 aren't NC, the first hit is a launcher
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luksgammer360
War Lord
Joined: Jun 2011
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#4 “Quote” Edit Post
Her d/f+1+2 can break the wall / balcony.
u/f+2 from standing is -18 or even worse; the b+2,1,2 version is indeed -12 and you can get a full juggle after it.

As regards customizations, you can customize both Violet and Lee, and they look exactly the same. Unknown has lighter skin and brown-ish hair, different hit effect and battle grunts. If that's not enough, just look at her picture next to the lifebar.

Hope they make her customizable!
Evil_Gotenks
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#5 “Quote” Edit Post
Not sure if its a glitch or intentional, but her 1+2 snapback can hit ur partner if they happen to run into it after performing their TA! It goes without saying that u cannot tag during this time.
It happened to me twice when I played offline ghost mode with her. The first time was a mess and it happened off screen, i didn't realise until Combot magically lost health and did a death scream. So same deal as when u catch a tagged out opponent with this move, Unknown may be interrupted but the attack will happen.
The second time happened on screen when i performed this TA juggle with Unknown and Combot:
Launch, b2,1,f1+2 IZU 1+2 TA! (Alisa) b3+4,3+4 1+2
The opp managed to Tag Crash and hit Combot out of the stun while escapin the UB in general
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Rickstah
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#6 “Quote” Edit Post
a little glitch involving the 1+2 move i found

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gtjlz8b8KEE
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CorpseThrust200
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#7 “Quote” Edit Post
df+1 floats quickstand after df+1+2 near a wall (without it wallsplatting).

the good thing about uf+2 is it hits from range 2 to anywhere midscreen so it's a good move to troll around with lol.

also her reversal is the worst thing ever.
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Xiaho
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#8 “Quote” Edit Post
A perfectly spaced u_uf+22 has a different animation. Three spikes come out of the ground instead of one (only if blocked). Not sure what this changes about the move. The second hit can still be sidestepped or dashed under so I'm not sure if there's any use to this variation.
Jason4579
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#9 “Quote” Edit Post
@Xiaho

I found that the animation occurs when the second hit connects whilst the opponent is still within a certain range to Unknown, regardless of whether the opponent is standing or floating.

I haven't tested to see whether the animation actually affects frames. It doesn't look like it does, but I couldn't really care less since the move shouldn't really be used in the open.
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Snakebyte
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Joined: Sep 2012
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#10 “Quote” Edit Post
Just want to add that the new throw has a tag throw to Jun, and that the spike move (the first one mentioned in the OP) can also be used after IZU 3. It also has a u+2, in addition to the u/f and u/b, that points the spike directly upward.

d+2 adds a spike, and I think increases the hitbox. Not positive. Same with IZU 1+2.
Jason4579
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#11 “Quote” Edit Post
^ tag throw noted due to the counter-intuitive properties.

d+2 does indeed have increased range, but from my experience, IZU 1+2 hasn't changed.
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YoshikatYoko
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#12 “Quote” Edit Post
uf+4,3 hit properties isn't a glitch, it's a change. Probably Namco taking away red life combos at the wall with Jun's uf+4,3 properties.
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Jason4579
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#13 “Quote” Edit Post
Red life combos? It only applies to TA! and doesn't actually seem to affect anything; It's just an extra delay when switching back after TA!.

It's not like it even makes a difference anyway as most people just use 2,1,4,1 as her TA!.

Last edited by Jason4579 on Nov 21st, 2012 at 15:48

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YoshikatYoko
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#14 “Quote” Edit Post
... and the more hits/damage you do you deal high damage (especially using 3 hitters).

It doesn't affect anything, but it isn't a glitch - it's a change. Like Asuka/Jun's b+3,2 properties in the arcade version. In the arcade, the system tags to the point character once b+3 hits, but removed in the console. It's a change.

It COULD make some few difference, especially when you are using a character that can use 3 hitter bounds. This:

Asuka/Jun (Asuka Starter)

W! 2,1,1+2~5 TA! uf+4,3 (while system points back to Asuka) b+2,1,4

is damaging than

Asuka/Unknown (Asuka starter)

W! 2,1,1+2~5 TA! uf+4,3 df+1,4

-------

and correction on that. It's 2,1,4,1.
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Jason4579
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#15 “Quote” Edit Post
The old b+3,2 was a glitch that got patched in the Unlimited update. It was done by pressing b+3~3,2 or b+3,2~2 or something like that.

Out if the two combos you wrote down, the first won't hit as Asuka's second hit will always whiff, whilst the second, although it will always work, still doesn't do the damage of d+2 TA!2,1,4,1, d/f+1,4

Even if the late switch-back is a change, I still believe that it was completely unintentional.
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YoshikatYoko
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#16 “Quote” Edit Post
^

I know.

I don't why ACTUALLY wrote that, but it's df+1 df+1,4.

FYI, Asuka/Jun is the very first characters that I tested combos with. d+2 was never damaging at all.

W! 2,1,1+2~5 TA! uf+4,3 df+1 df+1,4

was ALOT damaging than

W! d+2~5 TA! 2,1,4,1 df+1 df+1,4

The damage mechanics in the game, if you're looking for the best damages, lies on sparks. Now, what I can expect now from Unknown is her uf+4,3~u combo. It looks damaging.

------

In the first place, I'm not actually INTO the change. I'm against the first post that listed the uf+4,3 as a glitch. Well, what I want is you remove that and copy it to the changes section instead.
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Baron West
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#17 “Quote” Edit Post
Due to the addition of the slime spike, Unknown's d+2 has infinite vertical range. This can be tested by doing d+2 after any tag buffered class 1 launcher. In terms of practical applications, d+2. will knock down True Ogre, Devil Jin, and Angel from their fly stances as long as Unknown is close enough. It will also knock opponents out of certain jumping attacks which would be impossible for the normal d+2.
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General Mustang
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#18 “Quote” Edit Post
Jason, I think you're wrong about the customization part of Unknown. I believe that she shouldn't gain any upper body or lower body clothes, but I still believe you should be able to at least change the color of her 1P outfit to your liking. I also believe you should be able to change her hair and place items on her as well. That's just my take on it.
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Jason4579
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#19 “Quote” Edit Post
Yeah, I think all we have is opinion really. My opinion is only as so because of the insane range of her u/f+2,1_2. Not being able to tell who's who could make a big difference.

Then again, it could a make a slight difference between Lee/Violet yet they can still be customised, but only because of the range of cossacks.

I needed to update this anyway, so I'll just take that part down. No point in having an opinion in a thread based on facts.
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