Arachnid Lab: Zafina's setups,mixups,crush baits

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leonized
War Lord
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 781
#1 “Quote” Edit Post
I created this thread to help each other out in playing zafina so please post any set ups you've found out so far. this is also good to start changing zafina's playstyle and start by not being afraid to use any of her unsafe move since they're there for a reason.

If this thread is found useless feel free to lock it mods .

feel free to add anything, and ill update my post if its not closed xD

let's help out each other in building out our most random zafina xD

updates:
2/11/2012
- thread started
- added oki section
3/11/2012
- updated set ups, mix ups, ground games,
- added her stance mix ups, wall game section
5/11/2012
-added stance infos, notes
-updated SCR section
6/11/2012
-updated set ups, mix ups, ground game
8/11/2012
-updated set ups and mix ups

thanks to s-square and sinjin for participations and correction within the building of this thread.

note: all the frame data i got will be from the wiki and avoiding the puddle

IN TRYING OUT THESE MIX UPS AND SET UPS, OF COURSE BY NOW, YOU KNOW ZAFINA'S FRAME DATA. PLEASE BE PREPARED ON THE CONSEQUENCES SHALL THE OPPONENT GUESSED RIGHT OF THE SET UP/MIX UP.

legends
*= the set up, the mix up, the bait
HRHR= high risk high reward
HRLR= high risk low reward
HRMR= high risk meeh reward
LRGR=low risk good reward
WTR= worth the risk
SCR= Scarecrow stance
MNT= mantis stance
TRT= tarantula stance

SET UPS

ill start, these are the ones i know that are common, with the exception of no.1 since that one is from my past experiences.

1. SCR 4/df3/3+4/df4/2 crush-bait-relaunch-ch fish
NOTE:.(its torn between oki and a standing set up, but since it doesn't finish a whole juggle, i'll put it on set ups) this set up only (usually) works for the first time. but once it doesn't work anymore, you can initiate a mix up strategy from scr. useful on desperate situations. use this also only if your tag partner is recovering red life and you don't plant to tag assault, use it also if your playing solo mode.HRHR. be prepared to accept what happens next when the opponent guessed the mix up in the set up
* after her staple juggle bound scr 3+4 B!whiff any move that puts you in scr, imo f3, since it will visually tell your opponent that your very vulnerable coz the recovery animation takes too long, it he tries to attack you can now crush it with scr launchers(scr 4/df3), i prefer scr 4 since it crushes high and if not all mids, plus its fast. mix it up with 3+4 if they start shutting you down with lows. if they start blocking, thats where your lows comes in. df3 is HRHR whil df4 is LRGR cos it can CH

2. db2 ch set up
NOTE:a pretty simple set up, advisable when your're at -5 to 0 below frames
*basically throw out db2 out of any moves that gives you small plus frames or low - frames on block. the goal is to hide the frame advantage or to outframe or crush their next move.
good moves on block to set up db2 are: uf1,1,df3-b,db4,db1, ws1(situational) and shin kick

3. df4,1d to fc df3 (if they start to interrupt: df4,1-d to ws4 to float hopkicks or continue df4,1 or df4,1-d ws2)
NOTE: a combination of mix up and set up, somehow unreliable, but good to throw out at times.WTR
* you do ws4 when they starts to hopkick you to shut you down, ws 4 is faster 11 frames while a typical hopkick is 15f it will beat their hopkick so you'll somehow float them, i don't know if you'll get launched since i didn't happen to me, but maybe im wrong or the opponents timing isn't fast enough (i only got disrupted once since people here are afraid to throw a hopkick due to the follow up of the string) but the main set up here is df4,1d fcdf3. i suggest completing the whole string since its typically faster when they start interrupting you. usually it'll exchange hits, if they start poking you out of it with mids (e.g. df4,df1 generics) do a cancel to ws2

4. Entering TRT
NOTE: while many of you might disagree, TRT is a useful stance, since its the only stance she can't be launched while in it. most of the moves are relatively unpunishable also since they either recover in trt or mnt
* TRT becomes a good stance when the opponents are either behind a wall and a post juggle set up or oki
good ways to enter trt is from a ch db2, and fc df3, f4, scr 1+2-d. i usually enter manually trt from range 2WTR (which is not advisable if your opponent knows to shut it down, then you'll have to stop entering manually ) from ch db2,f4 and fc df3 when they all hit, it guarantees you a d2, you have the option to enter trt through d2,4-d1+2, from then on it becomes an oki set up or mix up depending on what they'll do, scr1+2-d is good since it puts you in +6-+8 and your in trt making trt 3/1 basically uninterruptable. another great addition to her transition to trt is her uf1+2.

5. Paradox df3/d4
NOTE: a low to mid level of set up only. zafina's movement input is opposite while she is in paradox though same command input, useful for spacing while thinking of a strategy (IMO) WTR
*playing with paradox is fun its like ling's RDS because you can do certain things in it while turtling, basically zafina has a move that hits the opponent while she is on paradox, which is df3 it serves as her keep out while in paradox because its fast (i15), df3 makes your opponent afraid to approach you, be wary though you can get launched back turn at somepoint if you take too long playing with it, so you have to find a way to teach them not to do that, i think i did d4 before and bryan's uf4 whiffed against my back xD df3 also floats them if the hopkick missed, but there isn't anything guaranteed from the float, gives you good positioning afterwards though.

6. BACKTURN TO WS2
NOTE: This is effective when they start to shut down your paradox playdom(shall you be doing it, since its the only way to enter back turn, lest you jump over them while they're knd or anything else). it also serves as a crush bait ( i learned this from kane's lili, i applied it to zafina xD and it was surprisingly effective). NOT ABUSABLE AGAINST DEFENSIVE PLAYERS, for some reasons this set up really works against aggressive characters, and i use it a lot against the TK's. once they found out a way out of it, you can mix up other ws with shin kicks and duck jabs . You can also roll back, it'll take time before they fall for it again
* entering paradox and cancelling it to backturn, from there on you can now perform ws moves from ducking, can also do duck jabs from interrupting or shin kicks, (duck jab 2 is recommend -4 on block +7 on hit ^^ )

7. DF1+2 Bait
NOTE: good against aggressive characters, not abusable, LRHR, don't use it against low poke galore opponents. simple and easy
*basically you need to do a move that will trick your opponent into attacking with highs and some mids. you will do this by doing a move that's - frames on block but not negative enough to make it interruptible even to -8 is good, an even better choice is to do it with eye tricking moves that looks like slow on recovery but isn't.
moves: 2,1/ df1/ ff4/ f4/ jabs/ 4/ 2/ 3-b/ ss1+2

CH b2/ CH 1+2/ CH b1 Baits

DB 1+2 set up


MIX UPS


STANCES

-on paper zafina's stances look actually below average, with a few safe moves and a lot of launch punishable lows, she can be launch also in one of her stances. But actually using it in a match, you'll find it a bit good, each of her stances provide a different type of gameplay, all involving 50/50's.

if you know other ways to play with her stances please tell us , these things im going to add are the standard and staple ones.

SCARECROW
-i believe this is the most love stance of most zafina players. well for one, it does have nice built in mids that are fast and good for interrupting and poking, it is a bit scary if the opponent got stuck in the wall, even more scary when they are at the corners. there are only two things to shut down SCR, a sidestep and spacing. duck jabs and jabs will become obsolete once they start to get crushed by scr 4, hopkicks can get floated by SCR 2/3/1. mostly every launcher can be interrupt due to scr 3.

MIXUPS:
-within scr mix ups are simple, you got 3 for your mid, its very fast (i13) it will interrupt any type of 16 frame launcher and it'll float some hopkicks also (though you'll trade hits most of the time). Yout got your scr 1 for interrupting, its basically a jab done in scr, its good also for setting up frame traps since your at -3 only on block. you got you df4 for your standard low, i actually dont recommend d3 since i get launched even though its only -8, you could trying mixing it up with d3 d3 or d3,3 but still HRLR. SCR 4 is one of her better moves in scr in my opinion (it'll be very abusable if its safe but i wish its not launch punishable), for starters, it crushes high and if not all, mids. its fast (i14) making it zafina's fastest launcher. use it should they start jabbing your or throwing out shin kicks and duck jab, it crushes them, idk how, but it crushes shin kicks. if your risky and needed a big comeback you could try to throw out scr df3 and just hope it hits. its barely interruptable coz zafina really lays down low.

MANTIS
-this is zafina's safest stance, its the stance i used the most against aggresive or semi offensive players or faster characters. in this stance, zafina can block, she has a safe manual escape(mnt db) because she moves backward going out of mnt. The best part of mnt is, it has a plethora of strings and lows that are good on CH. bad part is 90% of it is launch punishable, but worry not with the mix up she has, i can guarantee you, you will be rarely launched unless the opponent guessed the mix up right. Another thing unique in this stance is its viability in CH game, its the only stance that can CH juggle hunt, though a juggle without a bound. Still its good, rather than having nothing.

MIX UPS:
the thing about mantis is, the mix ups are based on string cancellations, whil in mantis, she has a lot of three hit strings that can be made a viable and good guessing game. there are 3 strings zafina could play and mix. mnt 334(highly unrecommended, and VERY situational), mnt 33d4, and mnt 214. these strings could be a viable mix up by stoping at the first or the second hit, or completing the whole string. making it unpunishable, because it will instill fear of the opponent interrupting. shall they begin punishing you out of the cancelled strings, complete the whole string to teach them to stop punishing, stop finishing the string if they stopped punishing, and just mix up everything. actually thats the best advice i could give you, just mix up everything, do everything without planning but with proper thinking to achieve utmost randomness. as for a safe 50/50, you could do mnt d3 and mnt 1.shall they start punishing a blocked d3, start throwing out the second hit (mnt d3,1) making it a viable CH tool. btw her fastest low is mnt d1 its (i15) i believe its her best low in MNT (fast and unseeable even on hit), second best will be mantis d4, its a bit unseeable, easily ss-able, but really hard to see. For her CH tools, you got your mnt 3, mnt 4, mnt 2(1_4). Follow ups after CH mnt3/mnt4 is her staple pseudo juggle mntd31 mntd14. as for ch 2(1) you can dash it for a mnt uf3, or you can also slide (d4) can recover standing or continue with mnt guessing games. and you can also dash mnt4,3.

TARANTULA

Last edited by leonized on Dec 9th, 2013 at 14:15

leonized
War Lord
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 781
#2 “Quote” Edit Post

STRINGS AND OTHER THINGS



1.df1,2(1)/df1,4
NOTE: not abusable, use it sparingly, simple, not advisable against characters with reversals HRHR
*with the addition of 1 to the df1,2 string it becomes a viable mix up for zafina. just mix up df1,2 and df1,4 and occasionally completing the whole df121 to make instill fear of interrupting.

2. TRT4/ TRT d1+2 (safer alternative is trt3,1)
NOTE: IMO, this is one of the best-if not the best- mix ups she has in TRT because the start up animation for both moves is relatively the same, making the mix up basically unseeable. plus the only thing that could shut down your mix up is a low move. HRHR for d1+2 HRLR for trt4 (HRHR for trt 4,3 on hit/on ch)
*entering TRT now is the main topic so basically it needs a set up refer to set up #4. as for follow ups after, both trt 4 and trt d1+2 will recover in mnt. for trt4, on hit, there isn't much you can do since on hit your -6, you can actually do the whole string (trt 4,3) for a safer alternative, and it can be a mix up also, since you can create a guessing game on whether your going to finish the string or just stop at trt 4, the whole string on hit will allow a juggle . As for TRT d1+2 uf3 is guaranteed, if they start back rolling, mnt d3,1 mnt d1,4 will pseudo juggle them, just do d3,1, if the it both hits, continue with d1,4.

3. d3 (-D to mnt)
NOTE: Basic and Reliable.
*d3 is (imo), the greatest and best addition in zafina's move list, it really made her more competitive. having a fast, crushing low, that knd on CH, has the option to transition and gives +4 on hit give her the ability to become more offensive, as she was meant to be in BR, but her lows and frame inhibits that from happening. d3 ON HIT puts you on CR giving you some options.

-standard mix ups from d3 or follow ups: ws4/fc d4/fc d1 or d2/fc db4
-situational mix ups from d3: ws2 (great against TK's, steve, miguel, mostly for any aggressive player who immediately hits you after anything, note: this will be really rare unless you taught them with something that made you vulnerable after hitting this move); ws3 (a great entrance to scr mix ups, its even on block, You can also cancel it for another mix up); fc df3 (same as ws2 with Higher risk and lower gain, though weirdly and often unseeable); you can manuall enter TRT for mix ups from crouch (see TRT mix ups).
-hit and transition to MNT: see MNT mix ups

from s-square
I like to use is d+3, followed up ws4 to train opps to block first. Once they start blocking in fear of getting hit, you can start the mix up game.After you get people used to blocking ws4, you can really do lots of stuff. Esp u/f+1 (blocked followed by d/f+2 launch. A lot of people fall for that thinking that they can punish u/f+1 since it looks like a slow move.
Some good options to do out of d+3 would be: ff+3 (good frames on block, juggle on CH), u/f+1 (good frames on block, d/f+2 crushes pokes on block), ws+3 (good frames IIRC), fc d/f+3 and even d/b+4,2 (which can be done from fc) to CH launch people for insane damage. You can even do ff+1+2 out of fc to grab opps if they just stick to blocking.


*d3 on CH will basically give you a guaranteed ws4 and a great oki opportunity (see CHdb2, f4, fc df3 follow ups on ground game section)
*d3 on ch transition allows a pseudo juggle(her mnt staple no bound juggle. Need confirmation on this since i never transition in mnt coz its launch)

DF 1/jabs/duck jabs


UF1/ff2

scr 1+2

ff3

1,3 (-b)

GROUND GAME
NOTE: zafina has a relatively powerful oki game, all of her ground hitting moves are painful, while she is quite a bit lackluster in setting up relaunch. this is for zafina's ground game only.

Post bound ender that permits oki (without TA or zafina solo)


-ff3(certain TA fillers will permit this, watch chadonams zaf/hwo to see)
useful only when the tag partner of the opponent is recovering a huge amount of red life, since they can tag and shut down your scr oki options( i think). you can also cancel it to standing and give you a new option db1+2 seems a good choice after cancelling ff3 bound ender.

scr 1+2 - for side rollers, quick stands
scr 3+4 - for back rollers will rebound them
scr df4 - for side rollers, quicks stands
scr df3 - for relaunch (high risk/high reward)
scr 3 - for dives and jump kicks
scr 3+4 - for low get up kick

ff3 scr cancel:
grabs/d3/duck jabs/uf3/ff3/jab/df1/ss1+2 (HR for quick stands,tag crash)
b3 - if they stay there
1+2/ss1+2 - if they side roll
df1 - back rollers (uf1 for marduk, need confirmation -since it floats marduk in br)
uf3/uf4/parry - low get up kick
ss1+2 - stand up to mid kick

-mnt uf3/d4
same as ff3 but it puts you in mnt. more damage for uf3 slower recovery, abysmal damage for d4 but faster recovery

quickstands- see mnt mix ups
low get up kick - mnt uf3
get up kick - it whill whiff(need confirmation on this) punish it with mnt df2-5
side roll - mnt 3(4)
back rol l- 3,4,d4/ mnt d3,1 mnt d1,4
back roll to dive (must not hit) - mnt 1 will float them for a juggle

-1+2/dash df1 d2
leaves you at standing
-see ff3 cancel

Zafina post bound oki enders with tag assaults

UF1+2
:thanks to this move zafina can now perform oki options from every stance. this ender gives a more mix up feel and no set up options since it cannot be cancelled.

TRT 1/d+1+2- if they stay
TRT 3 - get up kick
TRT 1+2 - back rollers/ low get up kick
see TRT mix ups for quickstand

213

Zaf moves on hits or CH that set ups oki

CH db2/4/ fc df4

CH 4



WALL GAME (STANDING AND POST KND/OKI)



MORE TO COME LATER, GTG to school

Last edited by leonized on Nov 8th, 2012 at 00:41

llstoolj
Kyu
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 5
From: England
XBL: LL Stool J
#3 “Quote” Edit Post
Just picked zafina up. Loving her random factor!!
Can't wait for this to be completed.

I'm really enjoying the ff2+4 to mantis and ending her solo combos with 213 into mantis. Really offers a Oki oppertunity.
leonized
War Lord
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 781
#4 “Quote” Edit Post
thank you... i hope othe people will feel the same way
S-square
7th Dan
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 91
From: Singapore
#5 “Quote” Edit Post
Nice info, but one part I do not understand is "paradox", is that some way of going into backturn? I don't rmb zafina having anything of that sort, I am not sure if turning around in mnt to backturn is possible either.

Info to add: You could come up with a list of mix-ups from d+3, the new low move that is awesome. One favorite I like to use is d+3, followed up ws4 to train opps to block first. Once they start blocking in fear of getting hit, you can start the mix up game.

Some good options to do out of d+3 would be: ff+3 (good frames on block, juggle on CH), u/f+1 (good frames on block, d/f+2 crushes pokes on block), ws+3 (good frames IIRC), fc d/f+3 and even d/b+4,2 (which can be done from fc) to CH launch people for insane damage. You can even do ff+1+2 out of fc to grab opps if they just stick to blocking.
sinjin
Valar Morghulis
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 1581
From: USA Massachusetts
PSN: sinjin313
#6 “Quote” Edit Post
S-square mnt d/f+3~4 will put zaf in bt

I only do 3 things from d+3. Ws +4 to train, cc+ d+3, cc + hit confirm ws+1. Oh and sometimes I throw
Signature [Kuni]
S-square
7th Dan
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 91
From: Singapore
#7 “Quote” Edit Post
Thanks for the info! Hahah. I was thinking of that move, since I rmb doing it by accident b4 and switching my direction, but I didnt know that you could have certain mixups from backturn.

As for d+3, after you get people used to blocking ws4, you can really do lots of stuff. Esp u/f+1 (blocked) followed by d/f+2 launch. A lot of people fall for that thinking that they can punish u/f+1 since it looks like a slow move.
leonized
War Lord
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 781
#8 “Quote” Edit Post
thanks for the additional infos and corrections, thank you also for taking time in looking in the thread i appreciate it...

mix ups with d3 will be added momentarily ... she can go to mnt from there if im not mistaken ?

i apologize if the thread is moving a bit slow (was that right?), i've got quite a hectic schedule...

Last edited by leonized on Nov 6th, 2012 at 15:11

S-square
7th Dan
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 91
From: Singapore
#9 “Quote” Edit Post
No no, you are doing a great job

Yupp! I think the juggle is guaranteed, the d+3 CH MNT, d+3,1 , d+1,4

Either that, or cc and do b+3 for a good chunk of dmg
power4ward
Shihan
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 113
#10 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by leonized
2. TRT4/ TRT d1+2 (safer alternative is trt3,1)
NOTE: IMO, this is one of the best mix ups she has in TRT because the start up animation for both moves is relatively the same, making the mix up basically unseeable.


I've just just added this to my game -- I've never used tarantula and I don't think many Zafi's actually do. Most people online have no idea what to do once she starts to crawl. Thank you leonized. The mixup really is unseeable as far as I can tell.

Question: is anything guaranteed after the d+1+2?
leonized
War Lord
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 781
#11 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by power4ward
I've just just added this to my game -- I've never used tarantula and I don't think many Zafi's actually do. Most people online have no idea what to do once she starts to crawl. Thank you leonized. The mixup really is unseeable as far as I can tell.

Question: is anything guaranteed after the d+1+2?


np thanks also,

yes there is, you'll end up in mnt after d1+2, uf3 is guaranteed, once they start back rolling to avoid uf3 you can mnt d3,1 mnt, d1,4
Gojira
Tekken Lord Black
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 906
From: USA Washington
PSN: Gojira_X
XBL: Gojiraaa
#12 “Quote” Edit Post
One of my favored setups for Zaf has been when I knock the opponent down FDFT (such as after a FC df+3 or ff+1+2) and they're trying to roll away, d+2,4,3 d+4,3 stands them up for a full uninterruptable BT combo. Does about 60 damage IIRC.

In T6 it was better though because they stayed grounded during a back roll. In TTT2 they're considered floating during a roll until the last 10 frames or so, but it still works if you time it to connect at the end of the roll.
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TokisPL
4th Dan
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 47
From: Poland
PSN: Tokis_PL
#13 “Quote” Edit Post
Setups as old as coal:

db+1+2, MNT d+3,1 d+1,4 (opp rolls back) dash, d+2,4 or if you time and dash it properly - df+2. Both guaranteed on standing opp' recovering after roll. Credits go to KyokoManji(NL) for showing me this long time ago.

CH db+2_f+4 -> f,F+3. If user stands up f,f+3 hits him in back so you can confirm and add a ~1 part for beefy damage. If they roll back you get the BT bound and if they sideroll it will hit them on a ground for chunk of damage. The only way to avoid it is to just lay on the ground, but that's where you use dashed b+3/SCR 1+2.
S-square
7th Dan
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 91
From: Singapore
#14 “Quote” Edit Post
I am not too sure if this is truly uninterruptable, but I recall seeing Chanel spam 1,3~b to poke, only to follow up with d/b+2 on block and it seems to crush opp's retaliation quite well.

Personally, I use 1,3 mainly to punish and mix up from SCR, but by training them to not react immediately upon blocking 1,3 by using d/b+2, you can get in SCR and mix-up too even on block.

d/f+3,1~d~ws4 seem like something that most people cant react fast enough to interrupt.

For a combo ender (with TA to throw the opp into the air), I sometimes use u/f+1+2. It spikes the opp, and if they dun get up block fast enough, you can do TRT d+1+2. Most times they will eat this or tag crash. Thus you can use this to force people to tag crash.

Pardon me for my horrible sentence structure, I am dizzy from my medication and posting this at 5.30 in the morning from where I am at
ShinsoBEAM!
2nd Dan
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 27
#15 “Quote” Edit Post
I find if I Bound Tag early to a partner then ff+2 as high as possible you can just run up and 1+2 for oki that grabs basically anything but staying on the ground and quick roll left/right.

Last edited by ShinsoBEAM! on Nov 22nd, 2012 at 19:31

S-square
7th Dan
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 91
From: Singapore
#16 “Quote” Edit Post
I noticed the viability of using d/f+4~1~d cancel into fc very useful as a juggle ender after bound, most times the cancel will put your right infront of your opponent and you can have a true mixup game of fc d/f+3 for a trip followed by b+3 for a good 50+ (IIRC) dmg or use ws+2 to relaunch people who try to do a getup kick or instant crouch block for fear of fc d/f+3.
The safest option the opp has is to just lie there, but once they start doing so, you can start using cc b+3 to step on them or even ws+3 (whiff) SCR 1+2
ShinsoBEAM!
2nd Dan
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 27
#17 “Quote” Edit Post
One thing I realized is that f+4 gives the db+2 setup on non-counter hit so it can be useful as a punish in that very small range where it will punish but launcher will not.

While it's not really a setup f+3 is basically the best NICE TAG move Zaf has.
PhineBuyM3
Fujin
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 592
From: USA Texas
#18 “Quote” Edit Post
Does the db2 ch set up work for f4 as well? I'm not in possession of TTT2 at the moment to test this out myself.
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sinjin
Valar Morghulis
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 1581
From: USA Massachusetts
PSN: sinjin313
#19 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by ShinsoBEAM!
While it's not really a setup f+3 is basically the best NICE TAG move Zaf has.


what do you mean by this
Signature [Kuni]
*NAKM*
Tekken Lord Black
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 954
From: USA Hawaii
PSN: xX-NAKM-Xx
XBL: XBL is for queefs!
#20 “Quote” Edit Post
Does F+1+2 crush highs? I'm trying to find uses for it. I like it but its tracking SUCKS. :-(
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