Steve Fox Beginer Noob Query

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DrunkenMonk
Kyu
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 7
From: United Kingdom
#1 “Quote” Edit Post
Hi all steve users first off im a lei wulong soloist since T2. But this is my first Tag game so im forced to learn a new character ive decided on steve fox due to allegiance chart with lei. Now i have a cpl questions?

1.Is steve worthy to learn? ( i have no problem dedicating time to learning steve but will the pay off be worth it?)

2.Who are the pro steves to look out for?

3. What are useful moves for floored/grounded opponents? (im struggling with this)

4.The pros and cons for steve?

5. What type of fighter is steve? Counter attack, bulldog etc?
(I'll be bk with more!)

6. How difficult is he to learn, any rough timescale into becoming a strong steve?

P.s sorry to open new thread but this steve fox section isnt as lively as others so i wanted to be noticed. Feel free to merge mods if neccessary!
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Stoic Steve
Iron Fist God
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1497
#2 “Quote” Edit Post
1. This question depends on how much time you put in and the playstyle you are and how easy of a character you want
2. Sorry not sure I just look at the high ranks here in japan on live monitor someone else can answer. Of course NIN is a beast steve
3.d/b+2, f+4,1, 3+4d+2 or 3+4~f into pab he has a lot of mix ups to be honest
4.steve can bulldog he has good CH and his 1,2,1 is pretty good against people that try to lock you down. pretty good juggle damage and wall carry. Some cons are he requires a lot of precise crisp movement at highlevel is hard to really master and he doesnt have good launchers for the most part they are all very punishable. THis of course just some pros cons
5. he is kinda both ch and bulldog
6. depends on the person but a long time but strong is a relative term Ive only seen about 4 other good steves first hand. I just cant use the joystick as well as them so Im an ok steve unfortunately but to me strong means you can place top 20 in a huge tournament like evo so it depends on what you mean by strong
Toshinjin
Nooblet.
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2113
From: Australia
PSN: foxlyfe
#3 “Quote” Edit Post
Stoic has it pretty much down pat.

Steve is not an easy character to win with, he does not have easy 15 frame launchers and he is not the best at punishing.

Positive parts to Steve are:

Good wall carry
Decent wall combos
Good combo ability
Good poking tools
B+1 (13 Frame CH launcher)
Good at taking red life
Good TA filler
Is a cool character

Negative parts to Steve are:

Does not pack a punch
Is able to rush down, but nothing terribly scary
Does not have a 15 frame launcher
Does not have a scary low
Requires you to outplay your opp rather than just get a easy launch into combo
You need to be good to play effectively with him

Hrm, its kind of hard to say a specific time frame where you will become good with him. I think you need to have a really good understanding of the game firstly, good movement, punish at every opportunity as that will be one of your top means of damage dealing.

He is a CH character: B+1, df+2, ws+2 are your only safe launchers*, but all require a CH AND df+2's follow up is not always guaranteed. B+1 and df+2 however are probably the best in the game for their respected purpose. B+1 is a 13frame CH launcher, df+2 is a 16 frame homing move, ws+2 is a 15frame CH launcher, all are safe on block. He has another CH launcher: 4,1~2 i, although 4,(1) needs to hit on CH iirc to launch and you need to hit confirm the 4, 1~(2) for it to be safe, otherwise it's -15 on block.

The rest of Steve's launchers: dck,2, uf+2, uf+4, ws+1+2 are all launch punishable on block and are some of the slowest launchers in the game.

*B+2 is a safe non CH launcher, 17 frames, -11 guard although the pushback on the move makes it safe. Combos are as follows:

b+2, ff+2 B! - 34D

b+2, iws+1,2 B! - 36D

B+2, PAB~ 1,1,2 B! - 43D

B+2, PAB~ df+1,1,2,1 B! - 48D

b+2, d+2,1~ dck+1, ff+2 B! - 49D

*Dck-1 is also a safe launcher, on hit or CH you get a juggle (dck~1, ff+2 b! on normal hit as where CH dck~1 gives a flop launch). It does not however iirc crush like dck~2 does (well, when dck~2 decides it wants to crush =P).

You will find that if you are losing with 10 seconds on the clock, it will be VERY hard to come back if your opp is solid and is willing to keep away from you. He doesnt have that comeback move (e.g. Hellsweep) the forces your opp to take the chance of crouching or standing.

His main damaging low moves: db+3,2 - db+2 - PAB~d+2 are slow and see-able, esp db+3,2 since you need to be extremely close for it to land which is usually a dead give away that you are going to go for that move.

His other lows: d+1 - d+2,1 - FC/PAB~df+1 - ALB~d+2 do not do a lot of damage and are meant to just nip away at your opp.

Even to get his offense going, you need to have your moves hit on CH to get the frame adv AND for some to even register as a string (e.g. 1,2,1 or FLK1,d+1). His df+1 is not up there with the likes of lars, drag, miguel... anyone really, it's pretty poor and that hurts him imo. Also df+1,2 does not jail, -3 on block and +5 on hit. Df+1 does not have the range and you can not abuse it effectively like said characters above. If his df+1 was better imo that would help his poking game a lot.

So to quickly summarise, you need to either take chances or read your opp to really be on top if you are to be offensive and utilize all his best tools. You need to put the work in to get good with Steve.

Last edited by Toshinjin on Oct 15th, 2012 at 05:48

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tonyrcamp
Virtuoso
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 204
From: United States
XBL: Untouchabletony
#4 “Quote” Edit Post
oooh by the way did some research its seems b+2 is negative 12 on block...
Signature B+2 and PAB we wildin out!!
Sofa
7th Dan
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 92
From: Norway
PSN: bestofnorway
#5 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by tonyrcamp
oooh by the way did some research its seems b+2 is negative 12 on block...


It's not. -10f, maybe -11f.
tonyrcamp
Virtuoso
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 204
From: United States
XBL: Untouchabletony
#6 “Quote” Edit Post
lol test it for yourself...
Signature B+2 and PAB we wildin out!!
Sofa
7th Dan
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 92
From: Norway
PSN: bestofnorway
#7 “Quote” Edit Post
Toshinjin, for the most part you got it down, but I just want to carify a few things/share my oppinion.

CH launcher: 4,1~2 i, although 4,(1) needs to hit on CH iirc to launch and you need to hit confirm the 4, 1~(2) for it to be safe, otherwise it's -15 on block.


It's not that bad on block. Only -12f.

The rest of Steve's launchers: dck,2, uf+2, uf+4, ws+1+2 are all launch punishable on block and are some of the slowest launchers in the game.


Most of theese are only launch punishable against a few characters (lars, bryan, mishimas, and a few more). Ws+1+2 is -15f, so this one is easily launch punishable by most of the cast. Dck2 and uf4 is -14f, so you'll need a 14f standig launcher, witch is rear. Also, dck2 has pushback, so it can be pretty iffy to pusish correctly. You need a punisher with good range. Jabs and most 12 frame punishers whifs. Also Jimpachi whifs with df2 (14f launche) at max range. Uf+2 is -13f... perfect ewgf? trust me, you'll never have it lauched.

B+2 is a safe non CH launcher, 17 frames, -11 guard although the pushback on the move makes it safe.


It's only safe if it hits at about max range. This can be used to your advatage though. Have it blocked at max range, and whifpunish if your opponant tries to punish with jabs

His main damaging low moves: db+3,2 - db+2 - PAB~d+2 are slow and see-able, esp db+3,2 since you need to be extremely close for it to land which is usually a dead give away that you are going to go for that move.


db3,2 has crappy range, yes, but it's a great move. It's all about getting up close and in your opponents head. db3,2 and b2 has about the same speed, so that's a great 50/50 mixup right there. I love having them guess between the launch and the low, especially after they tech.

You will find that if you are losing with 10 seconds on the clock, it will be VERY hard to come back if your opp is solid and is willing to keep away from you. He doesnt have that comeback move (e.g. Hellsweep) the forces your opp to take the chance of crouching or standing.


You're absolutly right, big problem against solid opponents. You can try and force a 50/50 mixup with db3,2 and b2. But it's tricky, cause you need to get so close, and your oponnent wants to keep you out. It's my go to option though, when working against the clock.

His other lows: d+1 - d+2,1 - FC/PAB~df+1 - ALB~d+2 do not do a lot of damage and are meant to just nip away at your opp.


Keep in mind though that d2,1 and FC df1 is good for starting an offense. d2,1 is one of the best lowpokes in the game. Safe if dck-canceled, and with the full string d,2,1,2 beeing deelayable and giving a CH launche, people tend to not want to retaliate that often, leaving you with dck mixups. FC df1 leaves you in pab, so it's all good fun from there on. On hit, pab2 is an uninterrutable follwup, because the autoparry beats jabs, and CH launches everything above 12f startup (maybe an 11f magic 4 can interrupt it, not sure.).



Last edited by Sofa on Oct 17th, 2012 at 00:25

Sofa
7th Dan
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 92
From: Norway
PSN: bestofnorway
#8 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by tonyrcamp
lol test it for yourself...


I did bro...

Definitely not 12f punishable whith Steve, Lars or Drag, so i guess it would apply to the rest of the cast aswell...
Toshinjin
Nooblet.
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2113
From: Australia
PSN: foxlyfe
#9 “Quote” Edit Post
What did you use to punish tonyrcamp?

If long range 12frame moves punish it (like bobs f+2,3) i wont be happy =/
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Toshinjin
Nooblet.
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2113
From: Australia
PSN: foxlyfe
#10 “Quote” Edit Post
Hi Sofa, finally someone wanting to talk about steve

It's not that bad on block. Only -12f.


Well, I was going by the frame data over at ATP. However, their frame data may be incorrect as they have a few mistakes there.. will have to test when I get the time. But, if it is -12, it would not be that bad of a move to randomly throw out in hope of an interrupt.

Most of theese are only launch punishable against a few characters (lars, bryan, mishimas, and a few more). Ws+1+2 is -15f, so this one is easily launch punishable by most of the cast. Dck2 and uf4 is -14f, so you'll need a 14f standig launcher, witch is rear. Also, dck2 has pushback, so it can be pretty iffy to pusish correctly. You need a punisher with good range. Jabs and most 12 frame punishers whifs. Also Jimpachi whifs with df2 (14f launche) at max range. Uf+2 is -13f... perfect ewgf? trust me, you'll never have it lauched.


Thanks for pulling me up, but technically what I said was true =P

UF+4: -14G / 23F - For some reason I thought this move was launch punishable (Jinpachi and Kazuya exc).. Maybe because it just appears like it would be a move that if blocked it's going to hurt. -14G still makes this move pretty much worthless and slow as hell... especially when you have the UF+2.

UF+2: -13G / 19F - Makes sense this is only -13G since it's basically his 'hop kick'. Has no where near the range of a generic hopkick AND is a fair bit slower (4 frames?). Still, it's decent enough to throw out in hopes that you will crush. I wonder if it's too slow to use (launch them before they can block) for when you are at an opp's side after a SS or SW.

ws+1+2: -15G / 19F - This move may be safe if done at MAX distance? Not sure, will have to test but sometimes it feels like a df+2 may whiff in situations.. or maybe im imaging it.

DCK~2: -14G / 25F - I swear to god ive been launched by deviljins ewgf after they blocked this. Maybe I was trying to move afterwards or something... which would be a lot. Have to test.. Also, will try testing this on max range to see how punishable it is, but the majority of the time I find myself using this up close in hopes of it crushing.. Which it sometimes does.. other times I eat an ewgf -_-

It's only safe if it hits at about max range. This can be used to your advatage though. Have it blocked at max range, and whifpunish if your opponant tries to punish with jabs


Well, according to tonyrcamp may have to be more careful about throwing this move out.. Have to test. Also, yes, it's best at max range, but at max range comes a chance that it will whiff, and if it whiffs it has bad recovery and im fairly sure you'll be launched!

db3,2 has crappy range, yes, but it's a great move. It's all about getting up close and in your opponents head. db3,2 and b2 has about the same speed, so that's a great 50/50 mixup right there. I love having them guess between the launch and the low, especially after they tech.


I have a love hate relationship with this move. Love it when it hits, HATE it when it whiffs or is blocked, ducked and punished. The range is absolutely horrible, even sometimes where you are close this move manages to whiff. Also being -15 (when db+3 is blocked)... It makes it so that even just throwing out db+3 is risky as hell. VERY rarely is db+3,2 ever blocked standing and almost ALWAYS is db+3,(2) ducked and launched punished. You'd think that being 16 frames, this move would be a fairly "sure thing" to hit, but the fact that you have to be SUPER close for it to land, people almost always feel that its coming and are ready for it.

Using db+3,2 after a techroll is super effective and has been since.. whenever db+3,2 was introduced (somewhere in tekken5). Now with the inclusion of b+2 it is a good 50/50.. But still, after a techroll if you do the db+3,2 a little early the db+3 will whiff, even when you are right at your opps feet AND since you have to be super close for it to hit, b+2 will be punishable (?) since you are up in their face

One setup I use is: Blocked 1, db+3,2. If they stand there it leaves them in range for the db+3,2 to hit... if they move however ggpo :/

You're absolutly right, big problem against solid opponents. You can try and force a 50/50 mixup with db3,2 and b2. But it's tricky, cause you need to get so close, and your oponnent wants to keep you out. It's my go to option though, when working against the clock.


One of Steve's main weaknesses indeed.

If you are in that situation, I guess all you can do is:

Db+3,2 / b+2 mix up
Throw

Maybe even ALB~PAB or ALB~2/d+2 mix ups? or DCK~FC~df+1 / DCK~cancel~throw?

Keep in mind though that d2,1 and FC df1 is good for starting an offense. d2,1 is one of the best lowpokes in the game. Safe if dck-canceled, and with the full string d,2,1,2 beeing deelayable and giving a CH launche, people tend to not want to retaliate that often, leaving you with dck mixups. FC df1 leaves you in pab, so it's all good fun from there on. On hit, pab2 is an uninterrutable follwup, because the autoparry beats jabs, and CH launches everything above 12f startup (maybe an 11f magic 4 can interrupt it, not sure.).


Yeah, ive seen Nin use it perfectly, esp when you d+2,1~dck cancel, bd. I try but just dont have the cancel into BD down... I have to really practice that.. Another thing, I have not had a lot of experience with PAB to be honest, since I did not play tekken 6 much (only really 6.0) and dont fully know how to utilise it. I assume though that it is important to his game now so I have to really sit down and muck around with it.

Come on people, this place is dead, if you have strats or questions ask!
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Sofa
7th Dan
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 92
From: Norway
PSN: bestofnorway
#11 “Quote” Edit Post
Im going to continue this discussion in the Q&A thread, as the questions that started it off should have been posted there anyways. The Q&A thread has been dead form the beginning. Maybe this will bring some life to it
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Michin Nom
Legend
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 504
#12 “Quote” Edit Post
b+2 is -11 on block. If you train yourself to use it on max range on block, it's safe from jabs except for long ranged jabs like Jack's.
Ryudo8904
Kyu
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 9
From: USA New York
PSN: xXRyudo8904Xx
#13 “Quote” Edit Post
Although Steve is a great character I'm having some problems with opening people up maybe its my lack of knowledge of the game but its kinda hard to get a flow going with Steve. When playing I feel myself relying too much on bck1 too much.

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