Feng Oki?

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kaworuscott
1st Dan
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 14
#1 “Quote” Edit Post
Something as important as Oki needs its own thread. The art of never letting your opponent get off the ground.

A lot of Feng's throws leave them a little bit of distance in front of you which seems a little awkward for Oki.

Feng's new 1+4 should be good for some Oki, especially as you can get d/b+1+2~5 after it if it launches. Any specific instances you can find where this is useful?

Does Feng hae any good spike enders to combos to allow for great Oki?

What moves are you doing in your Oki? And after which move? What have you seen other Feng players use to keep someone from getting up off the ground?
wooden-man
Fujin
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 584
#2 “Quote” Edit Post
I see many feng players like to go in BT mixup during opponent wake up

Finishing B! with ff3 or 4~3 goes in pretty good oki position.
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carn114
2nd Dan
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 25
From: USA Arizona
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#3 “Quote” Edit Post
I've noticed that 4~3 whiffs the opponent on tech roll alot more now than in T6. Slightly delaying it seems to fix the issue, but also gives them time to escape the pressure if they decide to back roll or get straight up...
adipati
Raijin
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 647
From: Indonesia
PSN: thatgarlicguy
#4 “Quote” Edit Post
i just want to share a set up i recently use.

players nowadays most likely would hunt for big juggle damage
so 3~4,3 as an ender would be the best option.
but, lately i start to use 4,3 as an ender for my juggles
i.e qcf+3,df+1,f+1,f+4,3 B! any filler ff,n, 4,3.
this juglle would damage 10 point less than the maximum possible
but, 4,3 would spike our opponent down to the ground and stays right on our feet.
so, WE decide, what they have to do. its not a 50-50 game situation, since the odds are in our favor.
we could stomp them if they lie still
re-float if they rollback via df+1
and so on. you guys knows the mix up.
my point is. by putting them on our feet. we reduce their options to retaliate
since if we ends our juggles with 3~4,3 we gonna reset our position, only for +10 damage points
this way, we could always keeping our advantage after every juggles
not to mention we would force them to tag crash and sacrificing their red bar
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THE SCRUB ZILLA
Raijin
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 629
From: USA Virginia
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#5 “Quote” Edit Post
I have been ending TA's and juggles with 4~3 as well and I completely agree with Adipati. It leaves you in a more desirable situation. Also, I tend to end wall combos with d/f+1 and then d/b+1 into kenpo steps (f3+4). f3+4 on wakeup near the wall leaves the opponent having to guess.
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OffInBed
TEKKEN CHICKEN
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#6 “Quote” Edit Post
I haven't posted in so long!


I like that, ending with 4~3, I however, almost always end with f+3,4. Sometimes I won't even do the guaranteed shoulder. I'll do f+3,4 straight into 4~3. I like having the chance of hitting them while grounded, and if they tech roll I'm just in there face ready to throw. I almost always throw after they block 4~3. But yeah, using 4~3 as the ender is super legit.
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Vash1422
Master
Joined: Apr 2009
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#7 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by OffInBed
I haven't posted in so long!


I like that, ending with 4~3, I however, almost always end with f+3,4. Sometimes I won't even do the guaranteed shoulder. I'll do f+3,4 straight into 4~3. I like having the chance of hitting them while grounded, and if they tech roll I'm just in there face ready to throw. I almost always throw after they block 4~3. But yeah, using 4~3 as the ender is super legit.


I think Adipati is talking about after a TA, cause 3~4,3 doesn't hit without one. After a TA, I mix up 3~4~b, and 4~3 to keep the opponent guessing. I used 4~3 ender much more with Feng/Leo because Leo's f+3, Bok+1,2 would allow me to guarantee damage or a mix up after 4~3 due to the way it hit. Now that I'm using Feng/Dragunov I prefer 3~4~b as it puts me close enough for a low, mid mixup, and in certain situations puts me close enough for Bt grab game on wake up (though I can't seem to make this consistent) If anyone knows how to get that consistent, please tell me, that would be incredible.

As far as just using moves post B!, f+3,4 then immediately inputting 4~3 is probably the best option. Hits if they sleep, raw tag or tag crash, and if they roll it gives you advantage. When they roll, you actually connect 4~3 late in the active frames, which changes the properties a bit. Normally 4~3 is like -4 or something, but when it hits late in the frames like if they tech from f+3,4, it changes to about +4 to +5 giving you pretty significant advantage.
adipati
Raijin
Joined: Jul 2005
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From: Indonesia
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#8 “Quote” Edit Post
hmmm... interesting
noted, man
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Vash1422
Master
Joined: Apr 2009
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From: USA Florida
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#9 “Quote” Edit Post
Just tested in practice mode. after f+3,4 into 4~3 for oki, ub+2 trades with a jab. 4~3 in that situation makes you +6. Incredible.
OffInBed
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#10 “Quote” Edit Post
Is that why d/f+1+2 throw feels like it's guaranteed after that set up????



I always thought you get the +frames depending on the range? Like if you do 4~3 at zero range you'll get at least +2 or 3 but from far you get -4?



Also!



Look at this, I've been doing this for months. It works on every single person who hasn't seen it before.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_WbonwRNHY&t=13m50s




In this case Speed kicks raw tagged and it bounded him. If he stayed grounded he would have eaten like...40+ damage I think. If hey got up and kicked it would have turned into a launch (float with 4, f+1). Get straight up and get bounded, roll back get bounded.





THE ONLY WAY AROUND THIS SET UP IS IF YOU TECH ROLL! And if they tech roll shit gets UGLY for Feng hahaha. sometimes they even tech roll backwards. If they do tech, raw tag as fast as you can and most likely you'll set up a whiff punish with the char you tagged in.


Only reason why I Ki-charge is because the timing on it fits SO perfectly. No way I'd be able to time that off of my own instinctive reaction.
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Bopper
Iron Fist God
Joined: Sep 2010
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#11 “Quote” Edit Post
Frame advantage for moves with multiple active frames depends on how late they hit in the animation. That can either be achived by hitting them at max range, or for for example timing it right after a techroll. Since they are invul during the techroll you can time it so it hits on the last frame regardless of range
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OffInBed
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#12 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Bopper
Frame advantage for moves with multiple active frames depends on how late they hit in the animation. That can either be achived by hitting them at max range, or for for example timing it right after a techroll. Since they are invul during the techroll you can time it so it hits on the last frame regardless of range


Stay classy, Bop



That actually makes a lot of sense now. The later it hits the more time you have to recover, relative to THEIR recovery. If you hit them on the first active frame it seems like they recover from the attack faster. MIND BLLOOWWWNNNN
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Bopper
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#13 “Quote” Edit Post
Yeah its pretty simple. Attacks have a set number of startup->active->recovery frames. Thats always the same, however the opponents hit/blockstun depends on when they get hit. So if you have a frame with say 15f startup, 3 active, 10 recovery you will always be able to act on frame 29. The opponents recovery however is relative to if they get hit on frame 1,2 or 3

That being said multiple active frames is pretty rare in tekken, much more common in 2d games.
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OffInBed
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#14 “Quote” Edit Post
I'm pretty sure Feng has 2 attacks with multiple active frames. 4~3 is really the only one that will net him huge +frames on block though.


Quite certain f+4 has many active frames, I've always kinda considered it a zoning attack.
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Vash1422
Master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 175
From: USA Florida
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#15 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by OffInBed
Is that why d/f+1+2 throw feels like it's guaranteed after that set up????



I always thought you get the +frames depending on the range? Like if you do 4~3 at zero range you'll get at least +2 or 3 but from far you get -4?



Also!



Look at this, I've been doing this for months. It works on every single person who hasn't seen it before.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_WbonwRNHY&t=13m50s




In this case Speed kicks raw tagged and it bounded him. If he stayed grounded he would have eaten like...40+ damage I think. If hey got up and kicked it would have turned into a launch (float with 4, f+1). Get straight up and get bounded, roll back get bounded.





THE ONLY WAY AROUND THIS SET UP IS IF YOU TECH ROLL! And if they tech roll shit gets UGLY for Feng hahaha. sometimes they even tech roll backwards. If they do tech, raw tag as fast as you can and most likely you'll set up a whiff punish with the char you tagged in.


Only reason why I Ki-charge is because the timing on it fits SO perfectly. No way I'd be able to time that off of my own instinctive reaction.


Interesting, I'll have to try that. Once you have them trained to Tech roll, since you ki charged and it makes everything CH, just wait for the tech roll and do a mix up.

db+2,2,2 will juggle
ff+4_f+2,1,2 for juggle or damage.
Dmc
3rd Dan
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 37
#16 “Quote” Edit Post
do u guys have any set ups for jump BT mix up ??

like if u do comboe uf4 , df1,f,43 B! jump over them for guarantee BT mixup
or if u do 4,3 for ender combo and they stay grounded or side roll u can jump over them
therichlover
1st Dan
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 13
From: China
#17 “Quote” Edit Post
Hello folks, been out of the tekken scene since 5. Wanted to know if there is any guaranteed damage after W!122BT3 to hit them on their sides/back if they tech for a f+212 follow up like it had in T5
adipati
Raijin
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 647
From: Indonesia
PSN: thatgarlicguy
#18 “Quote” Edit Post
hellow rich
good thinking. but since T5, recovery from wall splat is much faster, so a BT3 from 122 no longer catches them. also 122 has much lower damage than other options into BT like 334 BT.
and please keep in mind, that opponent could always tag crash to escape corner or wall pressure/setup.
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Mr. ZugZug
2nd Dan
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 23
From: USA South Carolina
#19 “Quote” Edit Post
Rich I would suggest just doing w!f+212_w!334 and then doing f+212 for catching the tech.

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