Ogre Strats/Discussion/Q&A Thread

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Xiang
Holy Hot Damn!
Joined: Jul 2002
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PSN: Xiang_Allard
#21 “Quote” Edit Post
f4 unfortunately doesn't give anything on a crouching opponent, just frames.
SSJ4_Vegita
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#22 “Quote” Edit Post
Oh well, at least it knocks down on CH
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Son Of A Glitch
Master
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 191
From: Wales
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#23 “Quote” Edit Post
So...I went out and bought a copy of TTT2 yesterday. I have the black card with the on-line pass but there's no mention of the dlc characters that I thought I paid for. Aren't they "available" to everyone now? Does anyone know the least time-consuming way to fill those gaping holes in my select screen without connecting my PS3 to the Internet? Thank you. BTW: I have a PSP if that helps.

Nice job with this thread and the combo pages btw.

I might be swapping Slim-Fast Ogre, as a serious char, for Feng since HIS ss+4 can lead to a full bound combo and his tracking looks better. At least Slim seems better than fat Ogre, who Namco have done a fine job of botching IMO. Back in the TTT1 era, fat ogre was a big bouncing punch-bag BEFORE bound was even IN the game. Now he's a GIANT bouncing punch-bag with most of his good moves tampered with or missing. Not so much a character as a hot air balloon running low on flame and about to crash. But it's still early days so perhaps there's still hope...

And by the flaming beard of the Sky Demon, I'm missing ffn2, now ff1+2, hitting mid! It WAS a great, fun move to use in oki, as a whiff punisher, after d+1...The list goes on...My WHOLE game was based around setting up that ******* move. Does ff1+2 even give you a combo if it hits? If so, might it still be useful as a whiff punisher and as a mix-up with f+2?

Originally posted by Xiang
f4 unfortunately doesn't give anything on a crouching opponent, just frames.

Yeah, f+4 ≠ uf+4 / f+2 anymore. I noticed that when I browsed the frame data you posted. Yet another injury inflicted upon our precious character by programmers who feel the need to meddle with everything. But at least it's still the best tracking move in the game. No, wait...
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MannyBiggz
Berserker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 420
From: United States
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#24 “Quote” Edit Post
No love for d3? It's a +1 on hit low that's only like -11 on block.
Xiang
Holy Hot Damn!
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 7436
From: USA Iowa
PSN: Xiang_Allard
#25 “Quote” Edit Post
I use d3 all the time, but mostly in wake-up situations where I don't think I can float them and I don't think they have enough time to low crush me. Which is my only problem with d3 but it's still in my top 10. It might give frames, but I prefer db3 or db4 in the open because they high crush and have more range. d3 is still juicy, though, I don't think anyone denies that.

Originally posted by Son Of A Glitch
snip


Did you just go out and buy the game? 'Cause you need to have pre-ordered it for DLCs. I don't think there's been an announcement on when they're going to release them for everyone. I think it's stupid either way, but now you know. :/

I'm a little confused with your comment about Feng: You're going to be playing Ogre instead of Feng? 'Cause Ogre doesn't get a combo off of SS4, just free FC f2. I recently change my team to Feng/Ogre and they're pretty stupid. Feng's only big weakness in T6 was combo damage and Ogre gives him that beefy filler. df3 (a safe, mid launcher) doing 90+ damage? DUMB. It's the perfect mix-up tool.

I think everyone is sad that the unblockables are gone. I really don't understand why they did that. All you have to do was make it so he only get one follow-up (no bound opportunity) like df1+2 and it woulda been fine. But nope. They thought it was cheap... Also, AFAIK, ff1+2 only gives you a free low poke, ala d3; no combo. Pretty useless, right? You could use it as whiff punishment, but doing blazing kick would take the same amount of time to come out. :/

The f+4 crouch stun is his biggest loss, IMO. That was THE threat opposite ss4. They gave him other good stuff, but I do miss that.

BTW, before I forget, I did test it and df3 is definitely -12, not -11.
SteveDD
Destroyer
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 385
From: Greece
PSN: SquallXIII
#26 “Quote” Edit Post
Hi there Ogre's people

I've been using Kazuya since forever, AK since DR and Feng recently in T6. I want to keep this team, but I 'm thinking of maining Ogre for a while before reviewing my other characters, just for sth new.

So, XIang pairs with Feng and SilentXStorm is having a good time comboing with AK.

Which of the three do you consider the better option for Ogre's tag partner?

So far i 'm enjoying A.O & Kaz and had some fun with A.O's TA u/f 3,4,3+4, AK's iSW finish. Failed a bit to combo with feng but that's probably just being rusty. (and still learning how to TA, not really good with it..)

Any thoughts?
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Son Of A Glitch
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Joined: Sep 2005
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From: Wales
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#27 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Xiang
I'm a little confused with your comment about Feng: You're going to be playing Ogre instead of Feng?

No, Xiang. I said:
Originally posted by Son Of A Glitch
I might be swapping Slim-Fast Ogre, as a serious char, for Feng...

Originally posted by Xiang
I use d3 all the time, but mostly in wake-up situations where I don't think I can float them and I don't think they have enough time to low crush me. Which is my only problem with d3 but it's still in my top 10. It might give frames, but I prefer db3 or db4 in the open because they high crush and have more range. d3 is still juicy, though, I don't think anyone denies that.

Are these moves the same with both Ogres? I like fat Ogre's db3. It feels like Paul's db3. Like you say, it has good range, it crushes and it's a good move to turtle off. You can back dash after it hits or use it to "finish" your opponent...[Mortal Kombat]FINISH him!!!!![/Mortal Kombat]

Edit: after playing around some more with Fat Ogre, I'm not sure about his db3. It seems to whiff quite often due to his short legs. No doubt Slim-Fast Ogre's version has superior range.

Last edited by Son Of A Glitch on Sep 16th, 2012 at 15:59

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<sAInt_D3m0n>
Deity
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 665
From: Philippines
#28 “Quote” Edit Post
hey guys, how do you hit b+4,3,3+4 after uf+4, 2, d+1+2, b+4,3, d+1?

love the fc df+1 btw.
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Xiang
Holy Hot Damn!
Joined: Jul 2002
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#29 “Quote” Edit Post
@SteveDD: If you believe the Korean tier list, it would be kazuya.

@Son Of A Glitch: Yeah, Ogre's longer legs make it way better than fat Ogre's.
Damonta
1st Dan
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 11
From: United Kingdom
#30 “Quote” Edit Post
I might consider dropping A.Ogre

At my level he doesn't seem very effective. His damage output is disappointing low for such a visually heavy hitting character who doesn't have many strings.

I mean why isn't the final hit of 112 guaranteed? It makes no sense. Also, I personally feel like his juggle potential is weak. Overall I definitely prefer T.Ogre.
Ancient
4th Dan
Joined: Jun 2012
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From: Germany
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#31 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Damonta
I might consider dropping A.Ogre

At my level he doesn't seem very effective. His damage output is disappointing low for such a visually heavy hitting character who doesn't have many strings.

I mean why isn't the final hit of 112 guaranteed? It makes no sense. Also, I personally feel like his juggle potential is weak. Overall I definitely prefer T.Ogre.

His Output ist actually High if you ask me.

Yeah .. there you are right but he has got enough other options to clean that up. It would be a nice thing for him to have it but he really doesn't need it at all.
His Juggles are really great in filler Situations but I think when you like T.Ogre more its cool. Personal preference.

Btw. it would be very nice If someone could write a little beginners guide that explains some of A. Ogre's Oki Stuff , Followups (Guaranted DMG after stuff like his sidestep low )
Would be really helpfull for me to get into his style of play!
Xiang
Holy Hot Damn!
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 7436
From: USA Iowa
PSN: Xiang_Allard
#32 “Quote” Edit Post
I think he's amazing, sans infinite. His juggle damage might be meh solo, but it skyrockets with a tag partner. And all of his other stuff hits really hard. He has great oki and long legs, making his low pokes amazing. He's also a really good punisher. 112 has never been NC with the Ogres, so I'm not at all worried about that, but his regular jabs are still good and they actually beefed him a bit by giving him 2,1. I think it just all depends on how you want to play. He's not a rushdown character by any means, so you have to be smart with mind games and be at least half decent as a defensive player.

@Ancient: Good suggestion. I noticed a lot of character forums have sticky threads that are something along those lines. Definitely something to look into.
Xiang
Holy Hot Damn!
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 7436
From: USA Iowa
PSN: Xiang_Allard
#33 “Quote” Edit Post
So, a note and a question.

Note: Someone mentioned b2 in the juggle thread, so I was messing with it a bit and found that there's an error in the frame data. First, it's not 14 frames, it's at least 16. Second, it's not -8 on block, it's at least -15 (both hits).

Question: I've been dicking around with some tech traps and stuff. Has anyone found anything good with his unblockables? He's only got a billion and they all track like ass. :/
Morninglord
Synthetic Insanity
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2496
PSN: Morninglord
#34 “Quote” Edit Post
I would appreciate a mini guide. Ogre feels kind of overwhelming since I never played True Ogre or Ogres in tag so any previous strats based on old moves I don't know.

I'm interested in playing him.

Has anyone been testing his frames?
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Xiang
Holy Hot Damn!
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 7436
From: USA Iowa
PSN: Xiang_Allard
#35 “Quote” Edit Post
I have here and there. Any errors I find in the ina info I've been updating as I go.
Morninglord
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#36 “Quote” Edit Post
So if I keep refreshing your google doc I know what doesn't need to be double checked?

I'm going to check up on some stuff then. I'll post results in the frame thread.
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USMCOgre
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#37 “Quote” Edit Post
AO is pretty good. Suck so much of his offense is from crouch though, and he has nothing good to get himself there except ducking.

In the big picture, he will be top 10 I think.
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Toshinjin
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2113
From: Australia
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#38 “Quote” Edit Post
I agree with USMCOgre.

Yes, much of his offense is from crouch.... But that in itself is nothing to brag about really, all of his juice is basically launch punishable? And the risk reward for landing something isnt really in his favour either imo..

As for top 10... not sure on that one.. now that i think of it, id say top 15 maybe. Could also go up or down on tag partner just because of his juggle damage potential.

AO seems solid, much how paul is solid... but i just dont know if he has enough to push him into top 10.

Also can someone fill me in on the usefulness of the following moves?

d+2,3
f+3,2

And what are peoples thoughts on his reversal (b+1+2)? I get the feeling that it might be better than you would first think.

Last edited by Toshinjin on Sep 18th, 2012 at 02:31

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Xiang
Holy Hot Damn!
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 7436
From: USA Iowa
PSN: Xiang_Allard
#39 “Quote” Edit Post
He has plenty of juice that is safe. I play him just like you would play him in TTT1: Use the unsafe stuff a couple of times to show them you mean business, and then stick to the safe stuff. If you're looking for big damage, just do ff3 or bf4. The only area he's lacking in, IMO, is that really scary whiff-punishing launcher, like ewgf. Since they toned down the range of hopkick, it's hard to say that that's reliable enough to use as whiff punishment unless they're right in your nose, which means you're basically stuck doing f2 of b12 or something along those lines.

But, when he hits, he hits fucking hard, so I don't mind throwing out a hopkick here and there and getting over half life while risking jabs on block. When it comes to his FC game, I just try to use db1 to get me into crouch. If it hits, nothing will beat out a ws1,2. If it's block, just watch and see what they do. If they're jab happy, FC df2 eats them up all day. You can do the same sort of thing w/ db3 or db4, just keep in mind those are negative on hit, so you'll have to make some good reads with those. Like I mentioned above, though, if you do instant FC or something, just throw FC df2 out once or twice and then spam ws12 the rest of the time. Or try to bait a duck and then do f2 or ff3 or something. Ogre is all about making good reads.

d2,3 is OK, but it's jab punishable. If you're going to use it, I recommend just using the d2.

f3,2 is amazing. I love that move. Both hits are safe, mid/mid, NC, beefy damage on normal hit, and juggle on CH. It's only downside is speed, but if you use in a mix-up situation (like after a SS), it's gold.

I don't use the reversal, so I couldn't even tell you it's properties, lol.

Originally posted by Morninglord
So if I keep refreshing your google doc I know what doesn't need to be double checked?

I'm going to check up on some stuff then. I'll post results in the frame thread.


Pretty much. I always post up when someone points out an error and I update it. But Google saves it instantly, so you should see the update literally a few seconds after I do them. If it's not updated, it's just because I haven't gotten to it yet. I still need to go through and update the notations to American notation. I'm hoping right now that everyone can figure out if something launches or knocks down or whatever if it hits.
SSJ4_Vegita
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#40 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by USMCOgre
AO is pretty good. Suck so much of his offense is from crouch though, and he has nothing good to get himself there except ducking.

In the big picture, he will be top 10 I think.


I said the same thing last night haha, I think he is top 10 also

You can use blaze kick (d, db4) as a ranged whiff punisher for those slightly slower moves as it is 24f, it's also a taggable class 1 launcher which is about -18f if blocked but with massive pushback

Don't expect to punish a whiffed EWGF with it though unless you have godlike timing
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