All I want for christmas is a better Jack 6
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elementalsigil
Kyu
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3
From: United States
XBL: Denkashu
#1 “Quote” Edit Post
I'm not saying Jack 6 is the worst character but here is what I am hoping for Tekken Tag 2

1. Get rid of the crappy animations. Such as when his hands get stuck in the ground if the second hit of DF 1+2 misses. Stop making him get up and get launched after FF 3+4. And garbage move animations I may have missed.

2. When your only defensive options are excessive blocking, Pinpoint Assault and Crouching 10 since nothing else can help, the alarm goes out for a punch parry.

3. After UF 1+2 a little quicker recovery time is needed. I've only ever been able to block after this move. You shouldn't be on the defensive after a throw.

4. Debugger not launch punishable. There are many ground launchers that give high damage and should be punished if blocked. This does 32 damage and sends them flying away so you can't even capitalize on it.

5. Can we get a real wall jump. One of the biggest issues is getting pushed by faster characters or juggled into the corner and with sorry options afterward it doesn't get better. His wall jump punch has no range and will only hit if they are attacking right into where you were prior. A successful hit should get you away from the wall. Not floor them and keep you in the same position. Perhaps no hit at all just a dive to prone as far as it would normally go with no lame automatic get up afterwards.

6. Why are the sit punches launch punishable. I just landed a 4 hit natural combo and then you get to launch me for more damage than I did? No connecting move for any character should be launch punishable.

7. How about less hammer rushes on the move list. They are slow, they suck and take way to long to get to a mix up option. Only the short one has any merit and the rest can go. Use your imagination Namco don't just bloat the list with garbage.

That is all of my issues I believe. I'm not asking for too much, mostly things that should not even be there in the first place and few things to improve effective defense.
Mingriah
Make TZ Great Again
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1780
From: USA Oklahoma
PSN: mingriah
#2 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by elementalsigil
I'm not saying Jack 6 is the worst character


I dunno. I think he's pretty good with his +9 on hit safe on block low (Changed to +5 on hit in Tag 2)
Signature Please; call me FreeChaolan

Apparently Eliza's not in TTT2 because drunk Japanese can go super saiyan.

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NoodleHead
will touch u gently
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 17047
From: USA North Carolina
PSN: TastyPPJuice
#3 “Quote” Edit Post
Hmm... I am no Jack expert, but I do know a bit about him. Let's see if I can answer your questions.

Originally posted by elementalsigil
1. Get rid of the crappy animations. Such as when his hands get stuck in the ground if the second hit of DF 1+2 misses. Stop making him get up and get launched after FF 3+4. And garbage move animations I may have missed.

You may want too much. All characters have shitty moves, and so is Jack. You just happened to pick two moves that you shouldn't be using much, if at all. d/f+1+2 and f,f+3+4 are there for shits and giggles, and they are used to end the round as taunts.

2. When your only defensive options are excessive blocking, Pinpoint Assault and Crouching 10 since nothing else can help, the alarm goes out for a punch parry.

Try and learn to side walk correctly. Jack can sidewalk well if you know what you are doing.

3. After UF 1+2 a little quicker recovery time is needed. I've only ever been able to block after this move. You shouldn't be on the defensive after a throw.

Why don't you follow up u/f+1+2 w/ d,d/f+2? That's almost a given. 48 damage + running wake is too good to pass.

4. Debugger not launch punishable. There are many ground launchers that give high damage and should be punished if blocked. This does 32 damage and sends them flying away so you can't even capitalize on it.

It's not that bad, especially it sets up a good running game afterward. You can add more pressure if you manage to hit it by wall. Yoshi's d/f+1+2,2 is a much worst option here if you want to compare.

5. Can we get a real wall jump. One of the biggest issues is getting pushed by faster characters or juggled into the corner and with sorry options afterward it doesn't get better. His wall jump punch has no range and will only hit if they are attacking right into where you were prior. A successful hit should get you away from the wall. Not floor them and keep you in the same position. Perhaps no hit at all just a dive to prone as far as it would normally go with no lame automatic get up afterwards.

Wall jump is not exactly something that many characters can use to take advantage of, and especially should not be for Jack due to its size. Why would you want to wall jump when you can 1+3 against opponent? 1+3 comes out faster than wall jump, and opponent will end up be by the wall regardless of escape.

6. Why are the sit punches launch punishable. I just landed a 4 hit natural combo and then you get to launch me for more damage than I did? No connecting move for any character should be launch punishable.

Because sit attack sucks? The other option (mid) is the one that would hit decent opponent more often and it would cause stun on hit. Besides, sit attack should be used against opponent getting up from the ground, if you choose not to use other options.

7. How about less hammer rushes on the move list. They are slow, they suck and take way to long to get to a mix up option. Only the short one has any merit and the rest can go. Use your imagination Namco don't just bloat the list with garbage.

FC d+1,1 is used once a while to catch opponent who isn't aware to duck the second hit. It's not exactly a good attack either. However, after FC d+1,1, you may mix up between FC and ws attack, one of his stronger assets.
Dilly
When in doubt, D+3+4
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2230
From: USA Missouri
PSN: DancesWithNoobs
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#4 “Quote” Edit Post
Someone saying Jack 6 needs to be better?

Let me cover a few key points. Jack's baseball slide, while launch punishable on hit, is SCARY at the end of a round because spaced right it's a mid-low mix-up from the same move. Used in this situation, you cannot punish it on hit because it kills you. Makes running from Jack at the end of the match a lot less efficient.

FC d/b+1 is probably the best low poke in the game. Who else gets THAT MUCH of an advantage from a low poke that can't be punished on block? At wall this move is more annoying than anything else in the game. To make it worse, if you move after being hit by it, you're pretty much promised you'll eat a f,f+1... At wall this move is god-tier.

Speaking of f,f+1, this move will piss you off worse than a group of 3 year olds hyped up on redbull on a trip to the candy store. Safe on block, does chunks of damage on hit, b!'s on airborne (so murders random hop-kick that may come flying vs FC d/b+1), and more... Just off this and FC d/b+1 you can make an opponent afraid to even fight you.

Jack also does a LOT of throw damage with TS, has a launching throw, and crazy punishment range.

Realistically your problem here is that you're using the wrong moves. You're focusing on the bad, Jack is a character that breaks his opponent down and kills them when they're out of steam. I can promise you that Korea will tell you that Jack is strong enough already, or at least was in T6 (haven't studied enough of him in TTT2).

p.s. Anakin showed us that jack's wall jump DOES have use at the grand finals at MLG Dallas 2010.
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http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/forum...threadid=124372
GosTanMan
Deity
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 651
From: Malaysia
#5 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by elementalsigil
I'm not saying Jack 6 is the worst character but here is what I am hoping for Tekken Tag 2


Try sending your wishlist to Harada for Tekken 7 or Tekken Tag 3. Tekken Tag 2 is already more than 6 months old...
St. George
Lee of Campbelltown
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6961
From: Australia
#6 “Quote” Edit Post
Why was this piece of junk thread moved instead of being locked or deleted?
TTT2 is 10 months old, and you're rattling off a list of large scale changes like the game is months away from release? The changes are fucking retarded anyway. ff,n,3+4 is useful in quite a few situations, otherwise blah blah blah you're petitioning for changes to largely irrelevant moves. Sit punches? Fuck. How about you wait for console release, go and play the game until you know how to use Jack and THEN come back so maybe, just MAYBE you'll have something to contribute.
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elementalsigil
Kyu
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3
From: United States
XBL: Denkashu
#7 “Quote” Edit Post
Thanks for your useless flame post St. George. Perhaps it is too late for tekken tag 2 but that is not important to me. Same thing for moves you call irrelevant. Contributions are supposed to make games better.

If you look at tournament play it boils down to so few moves per character that it is clear that they do not improve on the game as much as they should. A tournament list should involve most of the characters moves since we are basically going into the 7th or so iteration of the game. If all we get is mediocre upgrades then paying full price for what should be a downloadable content installment would be a waste of your money and hundreds of hours of programmer work similar to Madden.

Namco should focus on the current tier ranking system and shoot for an A/B list not A through D+. By the way I do not use all of the moves I listed on a regular basis. I try them out to see when they might be useful since I didn't buy a game with 20 buttons to only press 3. We left the 3 button game generation back with Genesis and NES. I don't criticize those who use the most effective moves though. What wins, wins and it should be a complex strategy that is fitting to one of the best fighting games ever.

On another note, I still encounter Brawler level and higher people who still get hit by your proclaimed irrelevant moves. Perhaps you are one of them so you had to flame me.

Last edited by elementalsigil on Jul 24th, 2012 at 10:37

Keeper of the CRANE
DEATH by METAL
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 13160
From: Austria
PSN: Zakillah
#8 “Quote” Edit Post
Why was this piece of junk thread moved instead of being locked or deleted?

*shrugs*

Jack-6 is a fucking monster of a character. And every character has, lets say, very situational moves, its not like Jack is the only one.

If all we get is mediocre upgrades then paying full price for what should be a downloadable content installment would be a waste of your money and hundreds of hours of programmer work similar to Madden.

If thats how you feel, just dont buy the game. It is what it is. Like it, or dont. Its your choice.
You´re not going to change the game with your, by the way, totally vage suggestions.

Namco should focus on the current tier ranking system and shoot for an A/B list not A through D+.

Have you played TTT, T4 or T5.0? If you did, you wouldnt complain about balance. T6 is actually a pretty balanced game, the difference in tiers is not all that much. Some chars are a little too weak, I give you that, but Jack certainly isnt one of them.

I really dont see a point in keeping this open; you just joined and you what you should do is read and understand basic stuff first before telling us and Namco how things are supposed to be done, but no, you use your first two posts to make a pointless rant. Good job!
People even explained stuff to you, but instead of saying thanks you rather try to pick up a little internet fight. Good job, again!

Besides, if you want to talk about general stuff, thats what the general forum is here for; not the character strategy section; this is for strats, combos, frame data, in depth stuff only....not for rants based on nothing.

Last edited by Keeper of the CRANE on Jul 24th, 2012 at 15:51

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