Lei General Guide and QnA

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green)Lei
do it like old water
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1274
From: Germany
PSN: GreenLei
#1 “Quote” Edit Post
If you think about learning Lei this is the place to start. Only start Lei when u truly love that character!
So if you have not seen drunken master with Jackie Chan at least 20 times --> get da fuq outa here! ^^

This guide is basically a summary from my tekken experience playing lots of tournaments all over europe and competing against top players from all over the world, learning from Tetsuo in DR and Furumizu in T6, completed by contributions from the fellow Lei players in this forums:

Shauno, Evildice, Valium, Hardfighter, Suiken, Exalted, DTC, Fhwoarang, Battousai, Keeper.

This guide is written in the standard TZ notation, should you have problems understanding something be sure to check the LEGEND or the Jargon dictionary

Official Movelist

If you dont find your questions answered here, feel free to ask in this QnA thread

have fun Lei´ing people

-------------------------------
Index

(1) LEI GENERALLY
- (1.1) Strengths
- (1.2) Weaknesses
(2) WHICH PLAYSTYLES? TURTLE OR RUSHDOWN?
(3) TTT2 NEW MOVES
(4) TTT2 PROPERTY CHANGES
(5) LEGEND FOR ANIMAL STANCES; GROUND STANCES
(6) ITEM MOVES
(7) FRAME DATA
(8) STANCE TRANSITIONS
(9) MOVES FROM STANCES
- (9.1) Snake, SNA
- (9.2) Dragon, DRA
- (9.3) Panther, PAN
- (9.4) Tiger, TGR
- (9.5) Crane, CRA
- (9.6) Drunken Master Walk, DRU
- (9.7) Phoenix, PHX
- (9.8) Back turned, BT
(10) PUNISHMENT
(11) TOP 10 MOVES
(12) TRACKING MOVES
(13) NC
(14) NCc
(15) LAUNCHERS
(16) TAGGABLE MOVES
(17) TAG ASSAULT FILLERS (LEI AS PARTNER)
- (17.1) Tag Assault fillers (Lei as partner) on the wall
(18) B! MOVES
(19) STAPLE JUGGLES
- (19.1) How to do the Magic 4 (CH 4) juggle?
- (19.2) How to crouch cancel (cc)?
- (19.3) Against who deos the KNDs 3 juggle work?
- (19.4) Juggles on BT opponent
- (19.5) Off axis juggles
- (19.6) Low parry juggles
- (19.7) Unblockable Setups
(20) POST B! OPTIONS
- (20.1) Stance mixups
- (20.2) Resets
- (20.3) Tech traps
(21) WALL GAME
- (21.1) Wallsplatting (W!) moves
- (21.2) Wallender after TA at the wall
- (21.2.1) Wallenders (Juggle B! wallcarry into w!)
- (21.2.2) Big wallenders (after TA at the wall)
- (21.2.3) Big Wallenders (Juggle B! wallcarry into w!)
- (21.3) Wall tech traps
- (21.4) With the own back to the wall
- (21.5) Anti Tag crashing after wallenders
(22) OKI
(23) MOVEMENT; HAHA-STEPPING
(24) GUARANTEED STUFF AFTER PARRY
- (24.1) f3+4
- (24.2) DRU f
- (24.3) 3+4
- (24.4) 3+4,1
- (24.5) 3+4,2
- (24.6) 3+4,3
- (24.7) 3+4,4
- (24.8) TGR f
(25) THROW GAME AND FOLLOW UP
- (25.1) 1+3_f1+3
- (25.1.1) 1+3~5_f1+3~5
- (25.2) 2+4_f2+4
- (25.3) ff1+2
- (25.4) uf1+2
- (25.5) DRU 1+3_2+4
- (25.6) DRA 1
(26) BETTER USE PAD OR STICK FOR LEI?
(27) BEST TAG PARTNERS?
(28) ANTI LEI
(29) DO LARS PLAYERS HAVE SAND IN THEIR VAGINA? YES

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(1) LEI IN GENERAL

In the early tierlists, Lei has been marked as A tier, something around top 15. In Tekken 6 BR he was more like below average, something between top 25 and 30. The most obvious reason for his rise is his heightened juggle damage output, mainly due to BT 4,4 his new bound move. this also enhances his overall juggle potential and variation.

In t6 Lei had (and still has) lots of juggle starters, ff3, df2, ss4, hopkick without taking too many risks (only some characters could launch punish ff3 reliably, like Lars Ling Jack). ff3_ff3~b used to be -15 with pushback. So it was actually not that hard to get opponents in the air. but his juggle damage, combined with his extremely poor wall carry "compensated" for that.

Now in TTT2 ff3 has become -14, which is great, but the pushback is also gone. that means everyone with an i14 or fater mid can punish him with ease. But his juggle damage is much higher and the tag partner can handle his issues with the wall carry.
Lei now has to take more risks but also gets more reward from ff3.

the overall buffed movement and hitbox reduction in TTT2 has pro and cons for Lei. defensively, its a huge advantage for him, since he can dodge attacks easier and his evasion tricks become more effectively. on the other hand though, he has an even harder time to set up offensive pressure against opponents who know the matchup. his (close range) tracking was bad, now its even worse.
his frames on block and hit are bad (although not too many people know this) now they have become slightly worse. almost every mixup from stance transitions can be walked, backdashed, interupted, assuming opponents know the matchup.

this is the point where variety comes into play. a good Lei player has to be unpredictable and versatile, because nobody ever will know Lei better than the Lei player himself. flowchart attacking leads to lose against any smart player. being varsatile and unpredictable requires deep character knowledge, lot of experience and and clear mind. that is why Lei player´s tournament performances can be very unsteady from time to time.

Playing "solid" with Lei basically means low poking with d+4 or db3 or d+3 and back off. Sometimes fn12 and ws moves from BT~db, thats about it. There are a lot of characters who are much stronger in poking.

Lei has easily the most moves in the movelist and the most stances of all tekken characters (like 13? including ground stances).
therein lies the strength and the weakness at the same time. taking advantage of the ingnorance of opponents is the key to success. making bad decisions on that makes you lose very quick.

--->
After some testing, Leis game plan is nearly the same as he was in T6.
a) looking for ff3 openings.
b) if there are no and the opponent knows the matchup: low poke them and force ducking
c) if there are no and opponent doesnt know the matchup: overwhelm them with transitions and tricks

His new parry into stances, (3+4~stuff) could have been a fundamental change in his overall gameplay, but the window for the parry (opens at ~16th frame) is late and you have to take gambles to make it work once in a blue moon.
It has its uses though: intimidating people and make them hestitate. the throw your hands in the air and wav´em around like you just dont care animation pretty much hides the stance transiton and moves like TGR 4 come out of the dark and surprise even experienced players. but thats obviously only a side effect.

His new b+2 is nice to have but nothing overwhelming. It approaches opponents similar to Lings df1 and crushes some highs but no ewgfs. on hit, it easily allows for further pressure in DRA stance.
On block, it should be canceled asap, basically the same as razor rush stuff.

His new db1 is for situational use at most. its punishable by i12 lows (generic d+4) on hit. on CH mixup is guaranteed. Can work as a matchender or hit grounded opponents near the wall.

As a partner, Lei is an awesome TA filler on the walls. his options when partner does TA on the wall are limited, though. In open field, his TA arent very good, f312 for example whiffs alot

Summing it all up, Namco did their job and eliminated Leis biggest weakness, his low damage output.
Overall, Lei is the same with more damage, which makes him (in the right hands) a really scary character.


(1.1) Strengths

+ lots of moves, lots of potential
+ deepness
+ will never become boring
+ juggle damage is way better now

(1.2) Weaknesses

- bad tracking, especially in range 1 and 2
- basically impossible to play "solid". You depend on creativity
- flat learning curve, can be demotivating

(2) WHICH PLAY STYLE? RUSH DOWN? TURTLE?

Lei can be played both ways.

- Turtling: a turtling Lei requires backdashing, haha-stepping, whiffpunishing with ff3 and a lot of evasion technique (like laying down etc.) this can be very effective against characters with weak long range attacks and impatient players

turtling requires:

- movement skills
- punishment skills (fn412)
- patience
- discipline

- Rush down: rushing down opponents requires deep character knowledge and creativity. opponents who know the matchup will simply poke you out of any stance transition and interupt any aggressive play. you have to know alternatives and know all your options to all reactions of any opponent.
Rushing down is very effective against people who dont know Lei very well. once they are intimidated and start to hestitate, Lei can get away with a lot.

rush down requires:

- confidence to take risks
- good day shape
- creativity
- feeling to know when momentum is on your side and taking advantage of it

(3) NEW MOVES IN TTT2?

- ws 3+4, new i16 while standing launcher, taggable, launchable on block
- BT 4,4 new BT B! move
- (f3,1,)2 new last mid hit of this string, mostly used for tag combos
- during KNDs 3+4, goes into sSNA
- PHX 1, d+2_d new high low string into SLDs
- bb1,d+2 new high low string into SLDs
- bb1, D into SLDs, fakes the low of bb1, d+2
- KNDs u+3+4 into sSNA
- b+2 new high crushing mid
- b+2~f into DRA
- db+1 new high crushing low into sSNA
- 3+4 instant transition into SNA
- 3+4~1 instant transition into DRA
- 3+4~2 instant transition into PAN
- 3+4~3 instant transition into TGR
- 3+4~4 instant transition into CRA
- uf+1+2~5 - Special Tag with Feng and Leo and Wang

(4) PROPERTY CHANGES FROM T6 TO TTT2?

- f,N+4,1~f on CH now allows you to go into TGR
- fn4,1~d_u can go to DRG in CH
- CH KNDs 4 gives a stun, which can be recovered by ~f
- ff3~b now -14, used to be -15
- ws2,1 now faster, to test
- BT 3+4 - doesn't have b! property anymore
- ff+3 virtually no knockback on block now, this hurts him most
- 3rd hit of blocked fn2,1,2 and 1+2,2 doesn't launch, except CH
- df+1,1 -9 on block, but does not jail
- f+3,1 first hit hit box lowered, much easier to use during post b!
- former sSNA 1+2 is now sSNA 1
- df1+2_df1+2~f TGR worse frames on both hit and block

(5) NOTATION, LEGEND

SNK - Snake Stance
sSNA - sitting Snake Stance
DRG - Dragon Stance
PAN - Panther Stance
DRU - Drunken Stance
CRA - Crane Stance
TGR - Tiger Stance
PHX - Phoenix Stance
BT - Back turned Stance
SLD - Sleeping position with Lei's head towards opponent facing down
PLD - Sleeping position with Lei's head towards opponent facing up
KND - Sleeping position with Lei's head away from enemy facing up
FCD - Sleeping position with Lei's head away from the enemy facing down
SLDs: Slide Stance: face down, feet towards opponent, entered by d1+4
FCDs: Facedown Stance: face down feet away, entered by d1+2
PLDs: Playdead Stance: face up, feet away, entered by d2+3
KNDs: Knockdown Stance: face up, feet towards, entered by d3+4

(6) ITEM MOVES

DRU 1+3_ DRU 2+4 with the gourd on his back.
Can be unlocked in Ghost mode

(7) FRAME DATA

(8) STANCE TRANSITIONS

yeah I know Lei has a shitload of stance transitions and this list is most likely not even complete.
the commonly used ones are highlighted like that

1,1~f to SNA
ss1~f to TGR
ss+1~u_d to DRA
b,b+1~f to DRU
b,b+1,d+2_d to SLDs
db1 to sSNA
b+1,2 to BT
f,n,1~u_d to SNA
f,n,1,2~u_d to DRA
f,n,1,2,1~u_d to PAN
f,n,1,2,1,2~u_d to TGR
f,n,1,2,1,2,4~u_d to CRA

2,1~f to DRU
df+2~f to SNA
f,n,2,1,2,1 (when whole string is blocked) to BT
f,n+2,1,2,4~u_d (on hit or whiff) to CRN
f+2,1~f to DRU
b+2~f to DRA
ss+2~b to BT
ss+2~f to DRU
ss2,2~f to DRU
2+3+4 to DRU
u_uf+2 to PLDs
u_u/f+2~D to PLD

3,3_3,3~b_b+3,3_b+3,3~b to BT
3~4 (up to 3 times with 3~4,4,4) to BT
3~4~d (up to 3 times with 3~4,4,4) to PLDs
3~4~D (up to 3 times with 3~4,4,4) to PLD
3~b_b+3~b PHX
ff3~b to BT
ub_u_uf3 to CRA

4~4 to KNDs
4~4,3 to KNDs
4~4,3,3 to FCDs
4~4~D to KND
4~4,3~D to KND
4~4,3,3~D to FCD
4~3~D to FCD
4~3 to FCDs
d+4~d to SNA
ub+4~f to CRA
ub+4~b to PHX
b+4 to BT
d+4,4~f to DRU
db+4~f to DRU
db+4~d_u to SNA
f,n,4,1~f to TGR
f,n,4,1~u_d to DRA
f,n,4,1,2,2~f to DRA
f,n,4,1,2,2,4 to KNDs
f,n,4,1,2,2,2~f to PAN
f,n,4,1,2,2,4,3 to KNDs
f,n,4,1,2,2,4,3,3 to FCDs
f,n,4,1,2,2,4~D to KND
f,n,4,1,2,2,4,3~D to KND
f,n,4,1,2,2,4,3,3~D to FCD
f,f+4,3+4~f to CRA
f,f+4,3+4~b to PHX
f+4,2,1,2,4~u_d to CRN

FC df+2,1 to BT
FC df+2,1,4 to PHX

3+4 to SNA
3+4~1 to DRA
3+4~2 to PAN
3+4~3 to TGR
3+4~4 to CRA
ss3+4 to BT
ss3+4~d to PLDs
f,f+3+4 to KNDs
f,f+3+4~D (non-hit) to KND
b3+4 to BT
d3+4 to KNDs
uf3+4 to BT
db 3+4 to FCDs
f3+4 to DRU
3+4+1 to DRU

1+2 to BT
1+2,1 to BT
f1+2~f to CRA
f1+2~u_d to PAN
df1+2~f to TGR
u1+2~d to KNDs
u1+2~D to KND
u/f+1+2 (throw) to FCD

f 2+3 to SNA
b+2+3 to SNK (ssl, the other one is a ssr)
ssr_ssl 2+3 to SNA
d2+3 to PLDs

srr_ssl 1+4 to SNA
d1+4 to SLDs
b1+4 to PHX

SNA 3 to FCDs
SNK 3~D to FCD
SNA 1(up to 5 times)~f to SNA
SNA 2~f to DRA
SNA 2,2~f to DRA
SNK 2,2,4 to KNDs
SNA 2,2,4,3 to KNDs
SNA 2,2,4~4,3,3 to FCDs
SNA 2,2,2~f to PAN
SNK 1,2 to SNK
SNK 2,2,4~D to KND
SNK 2,2,4,3~D to KND
SNK 2,2,4,3,3~D to FCD
SNK 1,2,1,2 to SNK
SNA 1,2,1~f to PAN
SNA ssr to PAN
SNA ssl to DRA
SNK 1+3 to DRG throw
SNK 1+3~b to DRG
SNK 4 to SNK

DRA 1~b to DRA
DRA 2~f to TGR
DRA f1+2 to TGR
DRA 3~f to CRA
DRA 4,1~f to TGR
DRA 4,1~u_d to DRA
DRA 4,1,2,2~f to DRA
DRA 4,1,2,2,2~f to PAN
DRG 4,1,2,2,4 to KNDs
DRG 4,1,2,2,4 to KNDs
DRG 4,1,2,2,4,3,3 to FCDs
DRG 4,1,2,2,4~D to KND
DRG 4,1,2,2,4,3~D to KND
DRG 4,1,2,2,4,3,3~D to FCD
DRA d+3+4 to KNDs
DRA ssr to SNA
DRA ssl to TGR

PAN 2,1,2,1 on block to BT
PAN 3~b to PHX
PAN 4,2,1,2,4 u_d to CRA
PAN 3 to PAN
PAN ssr to CRA
PAN ssl to SNA

TGR 3~f to sSNA
TGR ssl to SNA
TGR ssr to DRA

CRA 1 (on block) to BT
CRA 2 to BT
CRN neutral to CRN vs. low attacks
CRA u/f+4 to CRA
CRA ssl to PAN
CRA ssr to SNA

DRU 2~b to BT
DRU 2~f to DRU
DRU 2,2~f to DRU
DRU 4~f to DRU
DRU 3+4 to FCDs
DRU 3+4~D to FCD
DRU 3,2,4~f to CRA
DRU 3,2,4~b to PHX
DRU 1+2 to DRU (up to 2 times)
DRU 1+2,1+2,1+2 to KNDs
DRU b1+2 to SLDs
DRU uf1+2 to SLDs
DRU ub 1+2 to PLDs
DRU ub+1+2~1~f to DRU
DRU 1~f to DRU
DRU 3~f to DRU
DRU 3,2~f to DRU
DRU~f to DRU (on successful parry)
DRU 1+3_2+4~f to DRU (on whiff)
DRU 1+3_2+4, 1+2 to DRU (during throw)
DRU d+2+3 to PLDs
DRU d+3+4 to KNDs
DRU d+1+2 to FCDs
DRU d+1+4 to SLDs

PHX f to DRU
PHX 4 to SNA
PHX b3 to PHX
PHX 1~f to DRU
PHX 1,d+2_d to SLDs
PHX b+4 (up to 3 times) to BT
PHX b+4 (up to 3 times)~d to PLDs
PHX b+4 (up to 3 times)~D to PLD
PHX 3,3_3,3~b to BT
PHX 3~b to PHX
PHX 1+2 to DRU
PHX u2+3_d2+3 to SNA

BT 1,1,3,2~f to DRU
BT d+4~f to DRU
BT d+4~u_d to SNA
BT ub_u_uf+2 to PLDs
BT 1+2,2 to SLDs
BT 1 to BT
BT 1,1 to BT
BT 1+2 to BT
BT d+1 to BT
BT 4~b to BT
BT 3+4 to BT

KNDs 3+4 to sSNA
KNDs 1+2 to DRU
KNDs 1_d+1 to FCDs
KNDs 2 to KND
KND 2 to KNDs

PLDs 3~f to DRU
PLDs 3~u_d to SNA
PLDs 1+2 to BT DRU
PLDs 1_d+1 to SLDs
PLDs 2 to PLD
PLD 2 to PLDs

FCDs 3~4 to PLDs
FCDs 4~3 to FCDs
FCDs 1+2 to BT DRU
FCDs 1_d+1 to KNDs
FCDs 2 to FCD
FCD 2 to FCDs
FCDs 4~3~D to FCD
FCDs 3~4~D to PLD

SLDs 4~3 to KNDs on whiff or block (to PLDs on hit)
SLDs 4~3~D to KND on whiff or block (to PLD on hit)
SLDs 4~3~D to PLD
SLDs 3+4~D to KND
SLDs 3+4 to KNDs
SLDs 1+2 to DRU
SLDs d+3+4 to SLDs
SLDs 1_d+1 to PLDs
SLDs 2 to SLD
SLD 2 to SLDs

(9) MOVES FROM STANCES

(9.1) SNA, Snake

SNA is a quite safe poking stance which has lots of usable moves for high level play.

- SNA 121 is s nice poke string which leaves Lei on + frames on hit and leads to PAN mixup. You should already know how to continue in case SNA 121 hits. hesitating will be punished by random hopkicks or quick mids

- SNA 2,2,2 a 3 hit natural combo. also +frames on hit and PAN mixups. same as above.

- CH SNA 2 leads to an escapable stun. CH SNA 2~f DRA 1+2 f3,1 ... for sick damage.

- CH SNA 1,1,1,1,1. these fast highs often hit on counter.

- SNA 4 only low from SNA. - on hit kills Leis momentum. only situational

- SNA 1+2. Should high crush but doesnt. Ive been hit by random CH4 while doing that move. can work at the wall situationally. maybe after a SNA 4.

=> SNA 121, SNA 2,2,2, CH SNA 2, CH SNA 1,1,1,1,1 are solid pokes that can be used in all levels of competition. the high crush potential and the speed of these moves are nice and will often lead to hits or counter hits while taking little to no risk.

(9.2) DRA, Dragon

This is a stance where Lei players can show their character knowledge and their creativity. This stance is best used versatile and unpredictable.

- DRA 1 throw escaped by 1. very good to exploit opponents unfamiliarity with Lei. best done after something like b+2~f on hit

- DRA 1~b to DRA fakes this throw and tempts people to mash buttons. in this case CH DRA 2 will crush and launch them for a full juggle. Im always surprised how well that works even in hiugh level play.

- DRA 2~f to TGR nice poke for further TGR pressure. launch on CH.

- DRA 3 quick low to remind people that there is one. dont overuse since it is launch punishable on block.

- DRA d3+4 laying down evades a lot of stuff which can be launched with PLDs 3+4, PLDs 4 or PLDs 3.

- DRA 412 stings very good to intimidate and confuse and test their matchup experience. once they start hesitating, Lei can get away with a lot.

- CH DRA 4123 comes out at i10 and leads to silly damage and wall splats. this is one of Lei´s best moves

=> not a mixup stance, but yet very versatile. requires a lot of trial and error experience

(9.3) PAN, Panther

- Pan 2, taggable launcher with great damage and only -10.

- Pan 1,2 high risk low which makes them thinking about ducking

- Pan 3 for low pokes. Pan 3~b on hit into PHX b+3 stun! trades with jabs. very usefull at the wall

=> Lei´s classical high risk/high reward stance. being in this stance both the lei player and the opoonent have to make a decicion which can lead to fast wins or losses

(9.4) TGR, Tiger

- TGR 4: obviously his best move from TGR and one of the best low launchers in the game due to speed (about i15) and its deceptive range. leads to full juggle afterwards. dont be too greedy with that one

- everything else in TGR is there to hit duckers and to make them stand again

- TGR~f parries everything mid and high (not elbows knees etc.) gives +6. very good to annoy people and tech them not to mash buttons while in TGR.

=> finding gaps for TGR 4 is the target when in TGR

Last edited by green)Lei on Jan 16th, 2013 at 13:33

Signature ---> Lei general guide

---> and combos traps wallgame

"you cannot outsmart that which doesnt think"
green)Lei
do it like old water
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1274
From: Germany
PSN: GreenLei
#2 “Quote” Edit Post
(9.5) CRA, Crane

Theres no situation to use CRA stance but after after a successful wallender (like after f3,1 ub4~f CRA)
transitions like uf3 on hit basically never happen. in that rare case I would continue with CRA 1+2
other than that sometimes fn12124~u_d evades stuff and leads to CRA mixup

once in CRA and opponent with their back to the wall, we have a classical mixup situation:

CRA 1: safe w! with decent tracking
CRA 4. hardly seeable knockdown low with lots of oki potential afterwards

CRA 2 is a move I personally never use
CRA 3423 (crane dance) is used as TA filler at the wall.
CRA 1+2 is used after CH uf3 w! (... CRA 1+2, ff2 B! etc)

(9.6) DRU, Drunken

Drunken thread for drunk people

or is it drunk thread for drunken people?

(9.7) PHX, Phoenix

(9.8) BT, Back turned

BT Stance is best entered by b+4 or 1+2,1 for -14 punishment. From there you have several good options:

- a full launching low and mid mixup with uf4 and d+4
- d+1 or d+3 for low poking
- BT throws. Nice for tagging out safely
- BT 2. homing mid -10 against those who walk too much

=> Lei´s BT stance is strong and complete, but hard to enter

(10) PUNISHMENT

Standing:

- i10:
1,1_1,1~f into SNA: badly - on hit, not recommendable (to test)
1,2: lots of + frames to follow up
2,1: most damaging i10 punisher
2,1~f into DRU: nothing uninteruptable afterwards (to test)
b1,2: first t2o hits of the ten-string. can be continued with 1 for a low for nice damage against oppoents who dont know it.

- i11:
4

- i12:
f+2,1
df4
d+4, used for KND wakeup 4, and aother moves that might have some pushback, like Asuka´s ss2. Jabs do more damage though

- i13:
df1,1
fn412: (theoretically i12, but in match i13 is realistic) practice hard, it is worth it and important to keep up damagewise with other characters. Hopkicks now being -13 is very much in Lei´s favour.
Note: well this is still hard to do, now with the intentional input lag in TTT2.

- i14:
3_3~b
1+2,1: gives + frames and BT mixup, very good

- i15:
df2
uf4

- i16:
f3,1, good range

- i17:
ff3 (16~17), blazing kick, behold!


While standing, crouching:

-i10
ws3: Lei´s unique 10frame ws punisher, salty damage but - on hit
FC1: generic dickpunch

-i11
ws4: generic ws4, good + frames on hit, safe on block

-i15
uf4: hopkick, bad range
ws2,1: when hopkicks range is too short

-i16
ws 3+4: new ws launcher, taggable, crushes highs. launchable on block

-i17
ff3_ff3~b; Lei´s bread and butter,

-i23
uf,n,4: against those heavy block stun lows like hellsweeps etc. or ducked strings like Nina´s ws1,1+2

(11) Top 10 Moves

From normal standing position:

- Razor Rush variations
- ff3_ff3~b
- db4
- d+4_d+4~d
- b+4~b
- fn41 strings
- df1+2~f
- df2
- Haha-Step
- 3+4 stuff?

from stances:

- TGR 4
- SNA 1,2,1
- SNA 2
- PAN 2
- PAN 1,2
- BT d+1
- BT d+4
- DRA 1~b
- DRA 2_DRA 2~f
- DRU throws near wall

(12) TRACKING MOVES

- df3 homing
- BT 2 homing
- db3
- db 4 (to test)
- ff3, ff4 track very good on long range due to f,f input
- df1 tracks good on short range
- (2),1,3+4 catches sidesteppers

(13) NATURAL COMBOS (NC) thanks DTC

- 1,1_1,1~f
- 1,2
- b+1,2
- f,n+2,1
- f+1,2
- fn1,2
- df1,1
- 2,1_2,1~f
- f2,1_f2,1~f
- f3,1
- ff+4,3+4
- fn412
- f4,2
- db+4,4
- 1+2,1
- uf3+4,4
- BT d4,4
- PLDs 3,4
- SNA 1,1,1
- SNA 1,2,1_SNA 1,2,1~f
- SNA 2,2_SNA 2,2~f
- SNA 2,2,2_ SNA 2,2,2~f
- PAN 1,2
- PAN 4,2
- BT 1,1
- ws2,1
- FC df2,1 (to test)

(14) NATURAL COMBOS ON COUNTER HIT (NCc)

- BT 4,3 - 14f
- (2),1,3+4
- f n 4,1,2,3 for i12~13 maybe the best ch string in the game, sick damage, wallsplat, hit confirmable
- DRG 4,1,2,3
- fn1,2,1,2
- (f+3),1,2
- d2,2
- b4,2
- (f,n+1),2,1
- (f,n+1,2),1,2

(15) LAUNCHERS thanks DTC

uf+4
uf,n,4
df+2
db+4_db4~f
ff+3_ff3~b
1+2, 2 (second hit and must be CH)
uf+3+4
4~4,3,3 (last hit)
fn(3),4 gives stun, escaped by ~f
fn(3),d+4 (last hit)
fn4,1,2,(3),4 gives stun, escaped by ~f
fn4,1,2,(3),d+4 (last hit)
fn2,1,2 (1st 2 hit must be blocked and third hit must be CH)
SS+4, taggable
ws+3+4
Shoulder Ram
CH 4
CH ff+2
CH uf+3_ CH u+3_ CH ub+3
CH 1+2
CH f+4
CH b+1+2 stuns, escaped by ~f
(f+4,2,1,2),CH 3
(fn1,2,1,2),CH 3
(fn2,1,2),CH 3
(ws+2,) CH 1
CH SS+2
BT uf+4
BT d+4
CH BT 4,3
(BT 1,1),3,2
CH BT d+1
SNK 3
SNK 2,2,2,4,3,3 (last hit)
CH SNK 2,stuns, escaped by ~f
DRG 4,1,2,(3),4 stuns, escaped by ~f
DRG 4,1,2,(3),d+4 (last hit)
DRG 4,1,2,2,4,3,3 (last hit)
DRG 1+2
CH DRG 2
PAN 2
PAN 2,1,2 (1st 2 hits must be blocked)
CH PAN 4
(PAN 4,2,1,2)CH 3
TGR 4
sSNA 4
CH TGR 1
CH TGR 2
CRN uf+4
CRN 1+2
CRN 3,4,2,3 (last hit)
CRN low tech
DRU 4
DRU b+1+2
(DRU 3),2
CH DRU 2
PHX 2
CH PHX b+3
KNDs 3
FCDs 3
FCDs u+3
PLDs 3
PLDs 4
PLDs 3+4
KND 3
SLD 3
PLD 3
FCD 3
*f+3,1,2* (last hit)
*BT4,4* (last hit)
*WS+3+4*
*CH KNDs 4

(16) TAGGABLE LAUNCHERS/MOVES thanks DTC

PLDs 4
CH BT 4,3
ff+3_ff3~b
WS+3+4
SS+4
PAN 2
CRA 3,4,2,3
1+3

(17) TAG ASSAULT FILLERS (LEI AS PARTNER)

ff+3,4
f+3,1 (This happens when you hold 5)
f+3,1,2
1+2,2
uf3, CRA 4_CRA 2
ff4,3+4
b4,1
fn4123

(17.1) Tag Assault fillers (Lei as partner) on the wall

uf+3, CRN 3,4,2,3
3~b, PHX 3,3
fn3, (partner hits) d+4
fn3, (partner hits) 4

(18) B! MOVES

- ff2
- d+2
- d/f1+2
- DRU uf1+2
- BT 4,4
- DRU (3),2
- TGR 1
- PHX 2

(19) STAPLE JUGGLES

Lei tagged in:
(theres not really a lot of variation within his juggles, but the damage is beefy now)

Most damage (doesnt always work)
- f3,1 1+2,1 BT 4,4
Most staple
- f3,1 ff3~b BT 4,4
Easiest and staple
- f+2, f+2 1+2,1 BT 4,4

Lei Solo Combos from each launcher



(19.1) How to do the magic 4 juggle?

goes like fn2, up to 4 times. the secret is to hit them very late and to take a big step. more like fN2

(19.2) Crouch cancelling?

(19.3) KNDs 3, df1 works against?

which characters Lei's KNDs 3, d/f+1 will work. Here is the list :

Ancient Ogre, Armor King, Bob and Slim Bob, Bryan, Eddy, Marduk, Feng Wei, Heihachi, Jack-6, Jinpachi, King, Miguel, Paul, Raven, Dragunov, Steve Fox, Tiger.(KNDs 3, d/f+1 doesn't work on other characters and females)

KNDs 3 needs to sweep in close range so that d/f+1 will connect. Otherwise d/f+ (1+2) (B!) is the best option as you know.

(19.4) Juggles on BT opponent

f312, f+2, 1+2,1 BT 4,4

this one must happen from real 180° BT.
from about 120° it is not guaranteed due to a strange stun animation which rescues the opponent.

in this case ff3 or 1+2,2 work (actually no, 1+2,2 doenst launch the way it used to)

(19.5) Off axis Juggles

(19.6) Low parry Juggles

uf+1, f+2, 1+2,1, BT 4,4
or
uf1, f+2, ff3~5

(19.7) Unblockable Setups

(20) post B! options

http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/forum...;postid=4437728

(20.1) Stance mixups

(20.2) Resets

(20.3) Tech traps

(21) WALL GAME, APPLYING WALL PRESSURE

- ub4_ub4~f into CRA:
used a lot, maybe his best w! tool. basically safe due to pushback and leads to further wall pressure in CRA stance when blocked.
on hit followed by CRA 3 w! or df1,1 w!
good risk/reward near the wall
ub4~f PHX not recommendable, because in case they block ub4, Lei is very immoblie in PHX stance

- f1+2 with opponent close to wall:
high but gives lots of + frames on block.
due to low range only really usable with opponents back to the wall.
followed up by uf3 or fn4123 this can be really juicy, if they press buttons.
works a lot even in high level play, because it doesnt look like + on block

- running 3, obviously

- ss2
gives +1 (?) on block
leads to BT mixup
nice follow ups are BT 2 BT d+1 or BT throws

- db4,4
wall splats only in correct range
Lei players lurk for this and opponents have to be afraid of this.
typical mixup with high risk/high reward.
If you do a d/b+4~f sweep near the wall, the second hit of DRU 3,2 will whiff. Instead do DRU 3~f to stay in DRU, and if they tech roll, you have frame advantage for a DRU throw/launcher mixup. If they stay down, try DRU 3~f again or DRU u/f+1+2

- df3
safe homing against people who walk with the back to the wall.
sometimes it can be hard to get the B! afterwards due to Lei´s (completely unneccesary) taunt animation on hit.
usually followed by df1,1 w! ff2 B!
or immidiate B! with df1+2

- DRU stance
DRU 1_ DRU 3+4_DRU throws 1+3_ 2+4 mixups can be scary agsint people who dont know Lei very well.
DRU 1gives safe mid W!
DRU 3+4 guarantees FCDs 3 afterwards
DRU 1+3_DRU 2+4 guarantees instant ws3 afterwards. If you do it quick enough (an instant WS), the kick will do 25 points of damage. If not, it will do 16 points of damage. Holding D/B_D/F while the throw is animating before doing the iWS+3 makes it easier to get the full 25 points of damage.

When people see DRU 3+4 on reaction, and break the throws by 1+2 this stance needs to be played differently:
See Shauno´s thoughts & comments about DRU stance at the wall

- fishing for CH 4,1,2,3
is just worth it, the damage output is just too sick

- after a finished wallender which recovers in normal stance, a simple b3+4 into BT can bait and evade wakeup kicks and gives a chance for BT+2 w!

- u+4
dont know why people dont use this. safe on pushback, gives w!

- (2,1) >3+4
or (df1,1) >1
or b4 >1
or d2 >2
or fn1212>4
or BT 4>3
can work when delayed and people mash bottons

(21.1) Wallsplatting moves

- ub4_ub4~f_ub4~b
- db4,4 in correct range.
- DRU 1
- df3
- (2,1)3+4
- (df1,1),1
- CH 4,1,2,3_ DRA 4,1,2,3 !!!
- (fn1,2,1,2),4
- ff4+3+4
- SNA 1+2
- sSNA 1

(21.2) Wallenders (after TA at the wall)

depends on the TA of your teammate. commonly used enders are:

2,1,3+4
3,3
f3,1,ub4_df2
b+2 ws3
3~4,4
f3,1,2~5 into running stuff
f4,2 into :
- df1+2 TGR (against all chars but ling)
- uf3 CRA ( medium big sized characters, not against woman)
- d4,4 against all

(21.2.1) Wallenders (Juggle B! wallcarry into w!)

uf 3 CRA 3424 (best option)
f+4,2 df1+2, uf3, d4,4
1,db2,ws3

(21.2.2) Big wallenders (after TA at the wall)

fn1222
fn4,1 fn12124
f4,2 fn12124

(21.2.3) Big Wallenders (Juggle B! wallcarry into w!)

basically same as above

(21.3) Wall tech traps

must not hit 90°:

f3,1 ufn4_jump over BT d+2 ws3 (in their back)

(21.4) Own back to the wall

2+4_f2+4 as well as ff 1+2 switches sides, no matter if escaped or not.
b,b,u/b (wall running jump kick) guarantees BT uf2 into PLDs mixup
laying down can be very useful against some characters

(21.5) Anti Tag crashing after wallenders

Last edited by green)Lei on Apr 12th, 2013 at 08:27

Signature ---> Lei general guide

---> and combos traps wallgame

"you cannot outsmart that which doesnt think"
green)Lei
do it like old water
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1274
From: Germany
PSN: GreenLei
#3 “Quote” Edit Post
(22) OKI

Lei´s oki options are very limited. his most used ground hitting moves are d+4 or uf 2 which both allow to keep up the pressure.
in TTT2 db1 is new. since it pushes opponent back far away, its only useful near the wall. (testing required)

(23) MOVEMENT, HAHA-STEPPING

Haha step can be done with 3 methods:
i) 3~4+b~b
ii) 4~3+b~b
iii) 3+4+b~b

For beginners, the 3+4 might be the easiest, but that again depends on personals preferences.

Theres also one mega fast haha step: 3+4+b~3+4+b~3+4~b. that one looks hella cool and people might think your a super awesome lei player mega fast haha step
But you cant really create space with that one. most Lei players only do it in replays after K.O. to show off but replays are gone so..

my advice: the days of super godlike backdashing with hahastep are gone since DR Tetsou haha stepping.
so dont spend too much time learning the hahastep.
It is still very useful and nice to have, but a decent korean backdash combined with BT~db movement does the same purpose.

(24) GUARANTEED AFTER PARRY?

(24.1) f+3+4

(24.2) DRU f

guarantees DRU 4 launch or DRU b1+2 for launch but this is hard to do. the risk/reward of randomly pressing f while in DRU is obviously not in Lei´s favour. hence this parry is used very rarely

(24.3) 3+4 SNA

every move from SNA should be guaranteed
not that useful, because theres no launcher from SNA
(besides SNA 3, which doesnt count due to uselessness)

(24.4) 3+4,1 DRA

DRA 1+2 is the best option, but needs good execution just frame (?) timing

(24.5) 3+4,2 PAN

PAN 2 obviously

(24.6) 3+4,3 TGR

(24.7) 3+4,4 CRA

(24.8) TGR f

nothing guaranteed, but +6 frames after succesful parry

(25) THROWS AND FOLLOW UPS

(25.1) 1+3_f1+3

simple running mixup with mindgames.
running unblockable can be swr-launched
while running 3 can be swr launched
while running 4 can be swr.
baiting swr, then df3 or ff3 works sometimes
this again depends a lot on the opponents anit-Lei experience

side notes:
- not recommended with the own back to the wall
- sometimes run in with a d/b+3. It tracks decently and hits side rollers who refuse to stand up.

(25.1.1) 1+3~5_f1+3~5

tag partner appears on opposite side with oki options. nothing guaranteed.
wakeups interupt everything. baiting wakeups might be a good idea.
running mixup against those who dont know it

(25.2) 2+4_f2+4

=> Lei is on frame disadvantage after successful throw, nothing guaranteed

wakeup 4: trades with i10 jabs
wakeup 3: can be hopkicked
quickstand: nothing, only mixups
backroll: ff3 catch
sideroll: catching with ff3 or FC df2,1,4 is possible
tag crash: swr launch!

(25.3) f,f+1+2

=> d+4 is guaranteed unless opponent tag crashes

quickstand: razor rush 3 d4,4 in the back guaranteed
wakeup 4_wakeup 3: db1 will hit on CH
backroll: catch with uf3+4, ff3 is hard to do
sideroll: d+4 or catches with ff3 or FC df214
tag crash: sw launch (easy)

(25.4) uf+1+2

quickstand: nothing guaranteed. high risk/high reward mixup between ws and wakeup 3.
wakeup 3 or 4: ws 3 is faster
backroll: ws 3 hits
sideroll: ws 3
tag crash: not launchable on whiff

=> this throw is a good example to show the importance of character knowledge against Lei. if opponent has no idea what to do, uf1+2 into wakeup 3 or ws 3 will most likely work for a chunk of damage and a quick win. on block both options are launch punishable, though. that is why this setup should only be used if your opponent is unfamiliar with the matchup.

side notes:

- After u/f+1+2, you can sometimes get away with inputting 2 to go into SLDs position. SLDs 3+4 is a quick hitting mid, and the SLDs slide can work once in a blue moon

(25.5) DRU 1+3_2+4

on the wall iws3 or d,4 is guaranteed. If you do it quick enough (an instant WS), the kick will do 25 points of damage. If not, it will do 16 points of damage. Holding D/B_D/F while the throw is animating before doing the iWS+3 makes it easier to get the full 25 points of damage.

this throw is obviously very good at the wall and should be used frequently

(25.6) DRA 1

nothing guaranteed. this is a real character knowledge test for opponents.
If they know how to break this, Lei player should play it super safe

(25.7) Side throws, Back throws

- After a Sailboat Stretch throw (opponent's left side is thrown), a d+4 is free, and d+4,4 will often combo if they move. If you know they won't stay down, a d/f+1 will float for this kind of combo: d/f+1, 2, <the staple juggle> 58 points of damage.

side notes:

- A awesome looking setup that leads into a throw is this... hit the opponent just as you go into PAN, such as SNK 1,2,1~f (hits), PAN SSR. If the opponent tries a linear attack like a hop kick, the SSR will dodge it as you go into CRN. Against most of these whiffs, CRN 2 is then guaranteed. When that punch connects, you have a +12 advantage while back-to-back with the opponent. A BT 1+3_2+4 is now a free back throw.

Yeah, you can also do a BT 4,3 to juggle, but it is nowhere near as stylish looking.

(26) PAD OR STICK?

doesnt really matter for Lei. choose whatever makes u feel more comfortable.
Lei is not a character that benefits from stick, he has no wavedash stuff or qcb inputs.
Only thing I can think of might be PAN F~b~F~b~F~b… this can be extremely effective with stick, this is much harder to execute on pad.
On the other hand, I think hahastep on the left side is easier with pad, but thats my personal opinion

--> in the end ist up to your personal gusto. there´s no real advantage for either pad or stick IMHO

(27) BEST TAG PARTNERS

playing another mixup and tricky character like Yoshi, Hwhoarang, Ling or Raven can cause serious headache for both the player and the opponent. since it can become really exhausting to stay fresh and creative with 2 characters, especially in longer sets. but of course it is really funny and poeple might get annoyed to the maximum.

on the other hand, a simple straight forward character like Paul, Feng, Wang, Lars or Bob might be the ideal addition to Lei, in order to calm down the pace of the match if required, to play solid and follow a simple game plan, completing Leis lack in that area

(28) ANTI LEI

1. know how to handle ff3~b and ff3,4
2. know how to deal with razor rush transitions

the rest is mind games.
Like NIN once said being asked what the secret is to be successful in tekken
"just think faster than your opponent"
yeah life can be so simple

(29) DO LARS PLAYERS HAVE SAND IN THEIR VAGINA?

yes, probably a matter of bad childhood and/or small penis size

Last edited by green)Lei on Dec 19th, 2012 at 09:34

Signature ---> Lei general guide

---> and combos traps wallgame

"you cannot outsmart that which doesnt think"
Battousai
Iron Fist God
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1213
From: Philippines
PSN: ElDiabloMacho
#4 “Quote” Edit Post
A couple of things that were not included:

Bound moves:
1. PHX 2
2. SS+1

New moves:
1. WS+3+4
2. BT 4,4
3. (f+3,1),2


My inputs:
11) Property changes from t6 to ttt2?
1. f,N+4,1~f on CH now allows you to gp into TGR.
2. f,N+4,1~u_d on CH into DRG (I haven't tested this one, though)

Last edited by Battousai on Jul 26th, 2012 at 10:35

green)Lei
do it like old water
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1274
From: Germany
PSN: GreenLei
#5 “Quote” Edit Post
thanks Battousai

what do you mean with ss1?
Signature ---> Lei general guide

---> and combos traps wallgame

"you cannot outsmart that which doesnt think"
Battousai
Iron Fist God
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1213
From: Philippines
PSN: ElDiabloMacho
#6 “Quote” Edit Post
SS+1~f is a mid move that transitions into TGR, and it also bounds. But I take it back. It doesn't bound anymore, as tested yesterday.
[~DTC~]
Combo Derper
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1565
From: Australia
XBL: Nor 360 =S
#7 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Battousai
SS+1~f is a mid move that transitions into TGR, and it also bounds. But I take it back. It doesn't bound anymore, as tested yesterday.


SS+1 has always been high and never could b!
Signature &// - Dragon - Tiger - Crane -DTC
Battousai
Iron Fist God
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1213
From: Philippines
PSN: ElDiabloMacho
#8 “Quote” Edit Post
Maybe my memory is tripping on me. I'll check it later on my PSP.
green)Lei
do it like old water
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1274
From: Germany
PSN: GreenLei
#9 “Quote” Edit Post
its definitely tripping you^^
Signature ---> Lei general guide

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"you cannot outsmart that which doesnt think"
Fhwoarang
Iron Fist God
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1290
From: Mexico
PSN: Fhwoarang
#10 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by shauno
u_u/f+2 to PLDs
4~4,3 to KNDs
4~4,3,3 to FCDs
4~3


Not particulary amazing, but If you press D during these moves, Lei will end up in the normal down position, instead his special stances.


CRN u/f+3 to CRN
BT 3+4 to BT


Do you mean CRN u/f+4?
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shauno
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Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 2826
From: USA California
#11 “Quote” Edit Post
^^^ Actually those findings are exceptionally amazing... for science!!! I'll post the full command and add a few more ground stance options I found right now:

u_u/f+2~D to PLD
4~4~D to KND
4~4,3~D to KND
4~4,3,3~D to FCD
4~3~D to FCD

FCDs 4~3~D to FCD
FCDs 3~4~D to PLD
SLDs 4~3~D to PLD
SLDs 3+4~D to KND

SNK 3~D to FCD
DRU 3+4~D to FCD
f,f+3+4~D (non-hit) to KND

Lastly, PLDs u_d+3 to SNA should be written as PLDs 3~d_u to SNA like your PLDs 3~f to DRU notation below it.

~~~

To those who don't know why Lei would ever want to drop fully to the ground (i.e. KND) instead of having all the offensive options of the stance version (i.e. KNDs), the answer is for an improved defensive posture.

When Lei is in one of the four ground stances like KNDs, some overhead hits (Steve's f,f+2) and low-hitting mids (i.e. Bruce's b+2) will easily hurt him if they have the frame advantage to attack first. If Lei knows one of these damaging moves are coming when he drops down, it is great to have the option to go fully to the ground so that those attacks will whiff. Sure, ground hits will still connect, but those usually hurt less than a power mid.

Last edited by shauno on Jul 27th, 2012 at 18:45

Signature "Practice makes improvement - you can never be perfect"
Battousai
Iron Fist God
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1213
From: Philippines
PSN: ElDiabloMacho
#12 “Quote” Edit Post
green)Lei, [~DTC~]: Right, SS+1 doesn't B!. I'm still scratching my head over this one...
green)Lei
do it like old water
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1274
From: Germany
PSN: GreenLei
#13 “Quote” Edit Post
thansk guys, Ive updated the list.

now we have collected 197!! stance transitions. maybe we can get the 200^^
Signature ---> Lei general guide

---> and combos traps wallgame

"you cannot outsmart that which doesnt think"
[~DTC~]
Combo Derper
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1565
From: Australia
XBL: Nor 360 =S
#14 “Quote” Edit Post
Just had a chance to look at the thread notice a few additions needed and mistakes.

KNDs u+3+4 into sSNA

only 3+4, the old KNDs spring kick is now KND 3+4


- f,N+4,1~f on CH now allows you to go into TGR
- CH KNDs 4 gives juggle now


fn4,1~d can go to DRG in CH
CH KNDs 4 gives a stun similar to SNA 2, which can be recovered.

f,n,2,1,2,1 on block to BT

try adding when first hit is blocked.

db+4~d to SNA

db+4~u_d to SNA

DRA 1~f to DRU

Taken out since 6.

SLDs d+3+4 to KNDs

SLDs d+3+4 to SLDs

stance transition not in list:
ss+2~f to DRU
f+3+4 to DRU
b+1+4 to PHX
PAN 3 to PAN
DRU 2~f to DRU
DRU f+3+4 to DRU
DRU ub+1+2~1~f to DRU
DRU 1+2 to DRU (up to 2 times)
PHX b+3 to PHX

f+2,1 is actually an i12 punisher, for i11 you only get 4 and also fn4,1,2 is an i12 punisher
Signature &// - Dragon - Tiger - Crane -DTC
Fhwoarang
Iron Fist God
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1290
From: Mexico
PSN: Fhwoarang
#15 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by shauno

When Lei is in one of the four ground stances like KNDs, some overhead hits (Steve's f,f+2) and low-hitting mids (i.e. Bruce's b+2) will easily hurt him if they have the frame advantage to attack first. If Lei knows one of these damaging moves are coming when he drops down, it is great to have the option to go fully to the ground so that those attacks will whiff. Sure, ground hits will still connect, but those usually hurt less than a power mid.


Interesting. Never saw it that way.

Now that we are into this, I want to say that if press u+3 or u+4 during his special ground stances, Lei will do the regular standing kicks, instead the special kick from his stance.

That works well for me sometimes.
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shauno
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Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 2826
From: USA California
#16 “Quote” Edit Post
^^^ Yes it does. By far my favorite version of that tactic is FCDs u+3. Because FCDs is the least vulnerable ground stance as I described above, it creates plenty of whiffs and FCDs u+3 is an excellent whiff punisher. This low sweep will knock down for a full juggle on clean hit, i.e., ~FC d/f+2,1,4, PHX 2, f,f+3,4 = 57 damage total.

FCDs u+3 is also safer on block and is faster in execution than FCDs 3 (which gives less damaging followups) and FCDs 3~4,4 (paltry 27 damage). Those other two will always KD at all ranges however, plus FCDs 3 has the longest reach of the three trip attacks. Still, I love setting up FCDs u+3 by creating whiffs more than any other attack from any other ground stance.
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green)Lei
do it like old water
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1274
From: Germany
PSN: GreenLei
#17 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by [~DTC~]
Just had a chance to look at the thread notice a few additions needed and mistakes.


only 3+4, the old KNDs spring kick is now KND 3+4



fn4,1~d can go to DRG in CH
CH KNDs 4 gives a stun similar to SNA 2, which can be recovered.


try adding when first hit is blocked.


db+4~u_d to SNA


Taken out since 6.


SLDs d+3+4 to SLDs

stance transition not in list:
ss+2~f to DRU
f+3+4 to DRU
b+1+4 to PHX
PAN 3 to PAN
DRU 2~f to DRU
DRU f+3+4 to DRU
DRU ub+1+2~1~f to DRU
DRU 1+2 to DRU (up to 2 times)
PHX b+3 to PHX

f+2,1 is actually an i12 punisher, for i11 you only get 4 and also fn4,1,2 is an i12 punisher


edited. thanks for your input.

I think for fn412 i13 is more realistic, thats why it should be listed as i13 punisher with a hint
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Eoin = Owen
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1661
From: Ireland
#18 “Quote” Edit Post
Er I was just in practice mode and it seems you can't go into Tiger from f,N,4,1~f when it is a counter hit. Is this some sort of glitch? Doesn't really make sense.
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shauno
MentalFrameAdvantage
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 2826
From: USA California
#19 “Quote” Edit Post
That's T6. They added the ability to input ~f for TGR and ~u_d for DRG on CH in TTT2.

Last edited by shauno on Aug 11th, 2012 at 01:36

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Eoin = Owen
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1661
From: Ireland
#20 “Quote” Edit Post
Cool good news.
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