Lili General Strategy

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Kane
Lucky Lili
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 13359
From: North Korea
PSN: emily_rochefort
#1 “Quote” Edit Post
So, here is the general strategy thread for TTT2 ... any strategy related questions, comments, new findings, oki, etc can be posted here.



so ... starting things off ...


the first thing I found out [by accident] was that Lili does indeed have a just frame.... however, it ONLY works on marduk. not very useful, eh? ... what's even less useful is that it comes from a move that is ... not very useful to begin with. if you do her b2>1 and delay it almost to the maximum amount, bt1,2 will be guaranteed on marduk, for a total of 57 dmg.

I don't have any proof of it yet, but with practice, you can do it yourself. I will be posting up a video of it tomorrow. but again, it's not very useful because it's Marduk only ... and the move is not great to begin with. a lot of damage though, if you can do it.

note that this is for Tekken 6, however the frames did not change for this in TTT2, so theoretically, it should still work in TTT2 ....... against marduk. maybe ogre? ... it did not work against Kuma.

~~~

the second thing I figured out... in TTT2, Lili's df3+4 is -6 ... and it takes about 5-6 frames to turn around, which means she cannot block 10 frame jabs or crouch jabs. but she has a JF turn around where she can block ON the 3rd frame, so she will be able to block any 9 frame attack [not that there are any, but it also means you have 1 frame leeway to block jabs].

I tested this in T6 using Lili's ws2~b [-11] against Kazuya's standing 3, which is 14 frames... she was able to justframe block the standing 3. again, I don't have a video of this ... but I plan to have a video of this one around Monday night ... [if anyone cares].

so ... in a sense, with a bit of practice, df3+4 is still safe in TTT2. I'll be going to japan in about a month from now, so I can actually confirm this working, but it should still work anyway.
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Originally posted by Lukmendes
I honestly wonder if Kane has a list of "Why Lili sucks" on his computer, to avoid having to write the same things over and over again .
schwaa
Shihan
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 109
From: Russia
PSN: schwabra
#2 “Quote” Edit Post
Pretty good news about df3+4. Damn, i dont really want to give up on Lili in TTT2, i've lost so much time playing her, and now the nerf bat comes and eats our blondie girl legs... Fuck namco! Why the hell suddenly nerfing her so badly?

And look at Lars, that swedish gay has few small nerfs, but in general he is strong as he was in T6. Where the fuck is common sense and human logic ?
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DrBhup666
Iron Fist God
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1106
#3 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Kane
the second thing I figured out... in TTT2, Lili's df3+4 is -6 ... and it takes about 5-6 frames to turn around, which means she cannot block 10 frame jabs or crouch jabs. but she has a JF turn around where she can block ON the 3rd frame, so she will be able to block any 9 frame attack [not that there are any, but it also means you have 1 frame leeway to block jabs].

I tested this in T6 using Lili's ws2~b [-11] against Kazuya's standing 3, which is 14 frames... she was able to justframe block the standing 3. again, I don't have a video of this ... but I plan to have a video of this one around Monday night ... [if anyone cares].

so ... in a sense, with a bit of practice, df3+4 is still safe in TTT2. I'll be going to japan in about a month from now, so I can actually confirm this working, but it should still work anyway.



Wow... just wow!! If this is true, it's a great find! At higher level this could make or break Lili.
But I can't see myself pulling these sorts of moves consistently. (but then again, I'm not at 'high level'.

I'm still living in the hope that Namco will re-buff Lili before TTT2 hits the console.

Also, you're going to Japan just to play TTT2? Now, THAT is dedication! I'm just hoping you won't find any more nerfs.

Last edited by DrBhup666 on Sep 30th, 2011 at 16:19

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Kane
Lucky Lili
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 13359
From: North Korea
PSN: emily_rochefort
#4 “Quote” Edit Post
and ... here is the video of the bf2>1~b, bt1,2.

Here
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Originally posted by Lukmendes
I honestly wonder if Kane has a list of "Why Lili sucks" on his computer, to avoid having to write the same things over and over again .
DrBhup666
Iron Fist God
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1106
#5 “Quote” Edit Post
^^Holy crap!! This is amazing!! Is the timing strict? Why does it happen?? Is it a hitbox-thing or is it a glitch?

That last qcf1 move where Lili just passed Marduk was certainly a glitch.
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OUTBREAK_YOKO
War Lord
Joined: Jan 2009
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#6 “Quote” Edit Post
Is that b+2>1~b BT1,2 works on bigs only?
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Kane
Lucky Lili
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 13359
From: North Korea
PSN: emily_rochefort
#7 “Quote” Edit Post
it works only on those characters in the video in those particular situations ... but this is for tekken 6. it may be different for ttt2.


if you whiff the b2, but hit them with the delayed 1, the bt1,2 is almost always guaranteed on a lot of characters. I didn't show that in the video because .. who get's hit by the 2nd hit of the h,h string like that?? the idea for it is to be full nc.
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Originally posted by Lukmendes
I honestly wonder if Kane has a list of "Why Lili sucks" on his computer, to avoid having to write the same things over and over again .
Julianna
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#8 “Quote” Edit Post
kane*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb_H...feature=related

look at this video zafina punish lili's d/f+3+4 with jabs... but she blocked it! is it safe now?

and qcf+3+4 still the same animation...do u think her +6 on blocked still the same? :/
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Kane
Lucky Lili
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 13359
From: North Korea
PSN: emily_rochefort
#9 “Quote” Edit Post
probably too slow. it's definitely punishable if you don't do the cancel.

qcf3+4 is ~+3.
Signature 💢 repping the Tekken Kawaii Brigade ( ͡ ͜ʖ ͡ ) (◕‿◕✿ ) ( ͡╭͜ʖ╮͡ )

Originally posted by Lukmendes
I honestly wonder if Kane has a list of "Why Lili sucks" on his computer, to avoid having to write the same things over and over again .
DrBhup666
Iron Fist God
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1106
#10 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Julianna
kane*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb_H...feature=related

look at this video zafina punish lili's d/f+3+4 with jabs... but she blocked it! is it safe now?


it sure didn't look like Zafina delayed the jabs.. how come Lili is able to block it? Maybe df3+4 is safe after all?
Kane, please you gotta test this for sure when you are in Japan!
Signature When I die, I wanna go peacefully in my sleep, just like my grandfather did. Not kicking and screaming, like the passengers in his car.

Kane
Lucky Lili
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 13359
From: North Korea
PSN: emily_rochefort
#11 “Quote” Edit Post
I already stated that it's not safe, unless u do the cancel
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Originally posted by Lukmendes
I honestly wonder if Kane has a list of "Why Lili sucks" on his computer, to avoid having to write the same things over and over again .
Cloukyo
Iron Fist God
Joined: Jun 2004
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From: United Kingdom
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#12 “Quote” Edit Post
how hard is the just frame? Is it an easy one like lee's backhands?
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Zakuta
Jet
Joined: Aug 2001
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#13 “Quote” Edit Post
Was Lili's d/f+3+4 the same in the early versions of TTT2? And with it being -6 am I still not able to simply crouch under the jab in BT?
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tekkendaily
7th Dan
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 93
From: Philippines
#14 “Quote” Edit Post
Guys, I would like to get opinions about my spacing with Lili. I could not upload a video so I'll just tell how I do it.

1. b,b,f,f,_f,f,SS - to bait whiffs
2. Same as above but with Korean Back dash. Depends on the situation.
3. A mix up of everything but with QCF. When the opportunity arises I punish QCF 1+2 or pressure with QCF+3+4

What do I lack? Is this enough? I notice that the spacing of koreans are different. If im not mistaken there spacing is accompanied with side step cancel? Is this common?
DrBhup666
Iron Fist God
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1106
#15 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by tekkendaily
Guys, I would like to get opinions about my spacing with Lili. I could not upload a video so I'll just tell how I do it.

1. b,b,f,f,_f,f,SS - to bait whiffs
2. Same as above but with Korean Back dash. Depends on the situation.
3. A mix up of everything but with QCF. When the opportunity arises I punish QCF 1+2 or pressure with QCF+3+4

What do I lack? Is this enough? I notice that the spacing of koreans are different. If im not mistaken there spacing is accompanied with side step cancel? Is this common?



This doesn't sound bad. But remember, when you are in the middle of a backdash, you are NOT safe (i.e NOT blocking). You need to do backdashcancel to be safe as much as possible. With that I mean you need to make that part of a backdash (those last frames) where you are unsafe and not blocking as short as possible.

The same goes for the sidestepping. Do sidestepcancel to be able to block as quickly as possible. Sidestep into another backdash+cancel.

Koreans movement in T6 is legendary! If you manage to replicate that, you'll have godlike movement!

You asked questions 'what do I lack?' ans 'is this enough?' -what do you mean? What exactly are you having trouble with? What are the problems you need solving? As far as the movement goes, if you're able to pull of what you wrote, it seems ok.

Use qcf3+4 to pressure like you wrote, it's +5 or +6 on block. Other pressuring tools for Lili are df3, (also +frames on block), d3 or d4 as low pokes, df1 as a mid poke (--> if blocked --> sidestep). Btw, what is qcf 1+2? I guess you mean qcf1,2. Just remember that both qcf 1 and the 2 are -14 on block. Use this move mainly for punishing big whiffs when you need to cover range, or interrupt a string by highcrushing if you are sure about a high attack coming out next.
Signature When I die, I wanna go peacefully in my sleep, just like my grandfather did. Not kicking and screaming, like the passengers in his car.

tekkendaily
7th Dan
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 93
From: Philippines
#16 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by DrBhup666
This doesn't sound bad. But remember, when you are in the middle of a backdash, you are NOT safe (i.e NOT blocking). You need to do backdashcancel to be safe as much as possible. With that I mean you need to make that part of a backdash (those last frames) where you are unsafe and not blocking as short as possible.

The same goes for the sidestepping. Do sidestepcancel to be able to block as quickly as possible. Sidestep into another backdash+cancel.

Koreans movement in T6 is legendary! If you manage to replicate that, you'll have godlike movement!

You asked questions 'what do I lack?' ans 'is this enough?' -what do you mean? What exactly are you having trouble with? What are the problems you need solving? As far as the movement goes, if you're able to pull of what you wrote, it seems ok.

Use qcf3+4 to pressure like you wrote, it's +5 or +6 on block. Other pressuring tools for Lili are df3, (also +frames on block), d3 or d4 as low pokes, df1 as a mid poke (--> if blocked --> sidestep). Btw, what is qcf 1+2? I guess you mean qcf1,2. Just remember that both qcf 1 and the 2 are -14 on block. Use this move mainly for punishing big whiffs when you need to cover range, or interrupt a string by highcrushing if you are sure about a high attack coming out next.




Oh yeah my bad its qcf1,2. What I meant about 'what do I lack?' or 'is this enough?' is that im not satisfied with the way I do it. When I watch people with Godly spacing, I always think "How do they do that?"

Well, I realized something. Is KBD and BDC the same? Omg, I forgot about cancelling my backdash all this time. All I do is... backdash. Im not sure though. This is my notation: b,b,d/b,b,d/b and then I hold b to cancel into standing guard or I hold d/b to cancel into crouch guard. Is this the right notation? I know it is, Its just that I forgot about the canceling part. My head was all about juggles.

Second,side step cancel is SS~b or SS~d/b? I don't cancel my SS either. I have a habit to do SS1+2, or SS,d+3+4 ( I do not know the best way to throw this, its -22 I think. it just so happens that my opponent usually whiffs during SS so the d+3+4 connects )

I know, most of my questions are basics. I don't want to miss this again. Im really commited to the game unlike before. All I care about was juggles. Now its different. Thank you very much...
DrBhup666
Iron Fist God
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1106
#17 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by tekkendaily
Oh yeah my bad its qcf1,2. What I meant about 'what do I lack?' or 'is this enough?' is that im not satisfied with the way I do it. When I watch people with Godly spacing, I always think "How do they do that?"

Well, I realized something. Is KBD and BDC the same? Omg, I forgot about cancelling my backdash all this time. All I do is... backdash. Im not sure though. This is my notation: b,b,d/b,b,d/b and then I hold b to cancel into standing guard or I hold d/b to cancel into crouch guard. Is this the right notation? I know it is, Its just that I forgot about the canceling part. My head was all about juggles.

Second,side step cancel is SS~b or SS~d/b? I don't cancel my SS either. I have a habit to do SS1+2, or SS,d+3+4 ( I do not know the best way to throw this, its -22 I think. it just so happens that my opponent usually whiffs during SS so the d+3+4 connects )

I know, most of my questions are basics. I don't want to miss this again. Im really commited to the game unlike before. All I care about was juggles. Now its different. Thank you very much...



Well, much better than I could ever explain, you should watch this video. He is much smarter and far more experienced Tekkenplayer than me. He covers everything you are wondering about. Make sure to see part 2 as well when it comes out.


http://www.avoidingthepuddle.com/ne...the-basics.html
Signature When I die, I wanna go peacefully in my sleep, just like my grandfather did. Not kicking and screaming, like the passengers in his car.

tekkendaily
7th Dan
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 93
From: Philippines
#18 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by DrBhup666
Well, much better than I could ever explain, you should watch this video. He is much smarter and far more experienced Tekkenplayer than me. He covers everything you are wondering about. Make sure to see part 2 as well when it comes out.


http://www.avoidingthepuddle.com/ne...the-basics.html


Wow! Thanks bro.This was really helpful. Oh btw, I heard E step has been nerf for t6. I got curious about it. Is that how koreans sidestep? They look like they're bobbling in place.
DeTrun
Sage
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 461
From: Vietnam
PSN: DeTrun
#19 “Quote” Edit Post
@Kane

How do you do the JF BT cancel? And without using the JF cancel, is df+3+4 -11 or -12?
Kane
Lucky Lili
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 13359
From: North Korea
PSN: emily_rochefort
#20 “Quote” Edit Post
you know, I tested the jf cancel in ttt2 and it does not work...
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Originally posted by Lukmendes
I honestly wonder if Kane has a list of "Why Lili sucks" on his computer, to avoid having to write the same things over and over again .

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