Blocked move = Blonde moment [Punishment thread]

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Kane
Lucky Lili
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 13359
From: North Korea
PSN: emily_rochefort
#1 “Quote” Edit Post
Okay, so you've blocked a move ... now what do you do?

This is mainly going to be here to help those who are trying to learn how to punish properly. All damages are estimates since the damage system is not quite yet known.


~~~

Lili's punishers for their respective startup frames:

10
- 1,2 = 25 dmg. +8 on hit, decent damage, good fr adv.
- 2,4 = 37 dmg. high damage, extremely poor range, knock down, wall splat, safe, non jailing.

12
- 4,1 = 30 dmg. 0 on hit, decent damage, decent range.
- 1+2 = 35 dmg. good dmg, wall splats if they are touching the wall, free ff4 if they don't roll back, poor range, will not punish wake up mid kicks.

13
- f2,3 = 43 dmg. good damage, knocks down, good oki, wall splats when very close and far.

14
- f1+2 = ~24 dmg. rather useless since she has f23, unless you are punishing a crouch move. +3 on hit.

15
- uf3 = 17+ dmg. launcher, decent range, puts you at awkward left axis on hit.
- 3,1 = 43 dmg. good damage, insane range, wall splats, knocks down, free ff4 if they don't roll back.

16
- df2 = 21+ dmg. launcher, good range, slightly higher launch than uf3 [making certain juggles possible].

17
- d3+4 = 31+ dmg. okay range, biggest combo potential, tag buffer.
- f4 = 31 dmg. good range, rather useless now = 3,1 has more range, faster and stronger.
- b1,4 = 49 dmg. ok range, high damage, mid,mid, wall splats.


~~~~~~~

Crouch punishers

10
- fc 1 = 7 dmg. +7 on hit, not much damage, but decent fr adv.

11
- ws4 = ~21 dmg. knockdown on hit, free db1,fc4 at the wall. sometimes can get free d4 as a float in open ground.

13
- cc, 2,4 = 38 dmg. difficult, very short range, see standing punisher for 2,4.
- ws1,2 = 41 dmg. good dmg, assumed + fr on hit.

14
- fc,df1 = 33 dmg. knocks down. free d3 on hit, total of 47 dmg. also free df3+4 on hit, total of 47 dmg. if they try to get up or roll back, it's a float juggle. good move

15
- cc, f2,3 = 43 dmg. see standing f23.
- uf3 = ~19+ dmg. launcher, see standing uf3.

16
- ws3 = ~31+ dmg. launcher, good range, very strong combo potential

17
- ws2 = ~22+ dmg. launcher, insane range, very strong combo potential, tag buffer.

Last edited by Kane on Oct 24th, 2012 at 12:56

Signature 💢 repping the Tekken Kawaii Brigade ( ͡ ͜ʖ ͡ ) (◕‿◕✿ ) ( ͡╭͜ʖ╮͡ )

Originally posted by Lukmendes
I honestly wonder if Kane has a list of "Why Lili sucks" on his computer, to avoid having to write the same things over and over again .
Princess Lili
Warrior
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 165
From: Denmark
#2 “Quote” Edit Post
Kane,
b1,4 is i15 ? right, plus good dmg ?
Signature im sexy and hot, ur not!!
u want some of my GOODIES???!
i had s3x with jin last night oops! ~laughs~
MiyusRibbons
Virtuoso
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 208
From: United Kingdom
PSN: MiyusRibbons
XBL: MiyusRibbons
#3 “Quote” Edit Post
unless its changed it was i16
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Josie Juggles
Princess Lili
Warrior
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 165
From: Denmark
#4 “Quote” Edit Post
i hope not
Signature im sexy and hot, ur not!!
u want some of my GOODIES???!
i had s3x with jin last night oops! ~laughs~
Kane
Lucky Lili
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 13359
From: North Korea
PSN: emily_rochefort
#5 “Quote” Edit Post
t6 to ttt2, b1 was never 15 frames ... it has always been 17 frames.
Signature 💢 repping the Tekken Kawaii Brigade ( ͡ ͜ʖ ͡ ) (◕‿◕✿ ) ( ͡╭͜ʖ╮͡ )

Originally posted by Lukmendes
I honestly wonder if Kane has a list of "Why Lili sucks" on his computer, to avoid having to write the same things over and over again .
MiyusRibbons
Virtuoso
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 208
From: United Kingdom
PSN: MiyusRibbons
XBL: MiyusRibbons
#6 “Quote” Edit Post
are you sure about that kane, i just checked the move a few times and each time it came to 16 frames...
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Josie Juggles
Kane
Lucky Lili
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 13359
From: North Korea
PSN: emily_rochefort
#7 “Quote” Edit Post
it says 17 in t6 and ttt2 on inatekken ... I thought I remember testing it in ttt2, but I don't remember. how are you 'checking' it?
Signature 💢 repping the Tekken Kawaii Brigade ( ͡ ͜ʖ ͡ ) (◕‿◕✿ ) ( ͡╭͜ʖ╮͡ )

Originally posted by Lukmendes
I honestly wonder if Kane has a list of "Why Lili sucks" on his computer, to avoid having to write the same things over and over again .
MiyusRibbons
Virtuoso
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 208
From: United Kingdom
PSN: MiyusRibbons
XBL: MiyusRibbons
#8 “Quote” Edit Post
i have a pvr, do the move a few times recording at 60fps and play it back on my comp a frame at a time... they had a i16 on backdash aswell
Signature Lili and Josie

Josie Juggles
Kane
Lucky Lili
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 13359
From: North Korea
PSN: emily_rochefort
#9 “Quote” Edit Post
or you could just take a -16 move, get someone to do the move and have them try to block. I could test right now, but at the moment, I am not really concerned whether it is 16 or 17 fr ... she has stronger / better punishers for -16/17 ... it's mainly for whiff punishing / duck / interrupt anticipation more than anything.
Signature 💢 repping the Tekken Kawaii Brigade ( ͡ ͜ʖ ͡ ) (◕‿◕✿ ) ( ͡╭͜ʖ╮͡ )

Originally posted by Lukmendes
I honestly wonder if Kane has a list of "Why Lili sucks" on his computer, to avoid having to write the same things over and over again .
MiyusRibbons
Virtuoso
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 208
From: United Kingdom
PSN: MiyusRibbons
XBL: MiyusRibbons
#10 “Quote” Edit Post
so for clarification as it was bugging me all day at work i recapped my lili moves and it turns out b+1 is i17 and i somehow managed to lose a frame 3 times last night. have a nice full list of lili's speed data now, just need to go through doing on block/hit/ch... i should really get a prog stick for when ttt2 comes out >.<
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Josie Juggles
Princess Lili
Warrior
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 165
From: Denmark
#11 “Quote” Edit Post
damn it really b+1 is i17 -___- but maybe it is a good move for tag wall combos (: but i hope so~ but we will see when ttt2 is out :3
Signature im sexy and hot, ur not!!
u want some of my GOODIES???!
i had s3x with jin last night oops! ~laughs~
MiyusRibbons
Virtuoso
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 208
From: United Kingdom
PSN: MiyusRibbons
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#12 “Quote” Edit Post
oh it has its uses, b+1,4 isn't a bad tag assault move, it may even be usable as a wall carry as i think the damage is better than f+2,3 but i never tried it and both have been tweaked a few times. Its very delayable so quite hard to read if you are using the b+1 randomly as a baiter, the b+1 i believe -8 with quite a large knockback so its relatively safe. as you say it'll all come down to testing when we get our hands of the console version or if they decide to ship some arcades to the europe.

princess lili you on psn or xbl?
Signature Lili and Josie

Josie Juggles
Princess Lili
Warrior
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 165
From: Denmark
#13 “Quote” Edit Post
PSN ^_^ network-name Kishxoxo
i would love to fight against u! it would be nice if u could upload our matches on youtube. :3 heh!
just add me <3 id love to fight ur Lili
Signature im sexy and hot, ur not!!
u want some of my GOODIES???!
i had s3x with jin last night oops! ~laughs~
DrBhup666
Iron Fist God
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1106
#14 “Quote” Edit Post
A couple of quick questions:

What oki is guranteed after f2,3 if they don't tech or roll back? Is it even possible to tech or roll back after f2,3?

Does Lili's new NC 3,1 punish Paul's Deathfist from every range or do we have use f2,3 in some cases? What has more range of f2,3 and 3,1?
Signature When I die, I wanna go peacefully in my sleep, just like my grandfather did. Not kicking and screaming, like the passengers in his car.

Kane
Lucky Lili
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 13359
From: North Korea
PSN: emily_rochefort
#15 “Quote” Edit Post
hmm ... I think you mean oki options, right? ... oki is never guaranteed

~~~

d3 hits if they do anything except tech roll ... and I think they can also quick roll backwards.

df3+4 floats if they roll back or get up [I think?] ... but it can be techrolled.


~~~

31 punishes deathfist from every range except the VERY VERY tip. it has more range than f23 ... f23 only hits if deathfist is blocked very close.
Signature 💢 repping the Tekken Kawaii Brigade ( ͡ ͜ʖ ͡ ) (◕‿◕✿ ) ( ͡╭͜ʖ╮͡ )

Originally posted by Lukmendes
I honestly wonder if Kane has a list of "Why Lili sucks" on his computer, to avoid having to write the same things over and over again .
Im Yoona
1st Dan
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 16
From: South Korea
#16 “Quote” Edit Post
@Kane - can Lili's 4,1 punish KND 4?
Signature Jigeumeun So Nyeo Shi Dae!
Kane
Lucky Lili
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 13359
From: North Korea
PSN: emily_rochefort
#17 “Quote” Edit Post
yes
Signature 💢 repping the Tekken Kawaii Brigade ( ͡ ͜ʖ ͡ ) (◕‿◕✿ ) ( ͡╭͜ʖ╮͡ )

Originally posted by Lukmendes
I honestly wonder if Kane has a list of "Why Lili sucks" on his computer, to avoid having to write the same things over and over again .
forest16
ForestTekkenVideos
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3794
From: Canada
PSN: Forest613
XBL: ForestSkies
#18 “Quote” Edit Post
d+1,2,4 is -15 right? Asking for the purpose of testing Wang's supposed 15 frame uf+4. It said Wang's uf+4 was punishing Lili's d+1,2,4, and the Official Guide said Lili's d+1,2,4 is -15, but the guide also says that Wang's uf+4 is 12 frames which really freaked me out.
DYNA$TY
Deity
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 695
From: USA New Jersey
PSN: Akushitsu
#19 “Quote” Edit Post
What about fc,d/f+1, d+3_f,f+4 for i14 cr punish? does a lil bit more than ws1,2 and cc,f+2,3
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Kane
Lucky Lili
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 13359
From: North Korea
PSN: emily_rochefort
#20 “Quote” Edit Post
hmm, interesting. I'll have to test around ... ws1,2 is 41 dmg and +8 on hit. what is the dmg on fc,df1 into d3 [on a float] ?
Signature 💢 repping the Tekken Kawaii Brigade ( ͡ ͜ʖ ͡ ) (◕‿◕✿ ) ( ͡╭͜ʖ╮͡ )

Originally posted by Lukmendes
I honestly wonder if Kane has a list of "Why Lili sucks" on his computer, to avoid having to write the same things over and over again .

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