TTT2 Jin: Power is everything? [DISCUSSION]

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bsurma
Shihan
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 121
From: Poland
PSN: gggyb
#1 “Quote” Edit Post
OK, now that we all know all of the changes made to Jin in TTT2 (and as it is already released on arcade machines, not many things can change from now on), we can discuss what is potentially the best gameplan for him.

AFAIC, there are two types of play that we could choose from:

NEW KIDS ON THE BLOCK, a.k.a. Risk - in this type of play there are mainly new moves that Jin obtained in this release, like the new d/f+1 followups, CDS transitions etc., etc., focusing mainly on the offensive potential.

PROS:
+ CDS 1+2, CDS 4, f+4~f, CDS 1 (count that as a one sequence) - all of these lead to juggle damage (some of them are new moves)
+ b+2,1 is your best friend
+ Very good in TAs and Tag Combos
+ CH baits FTW (u/f+3, EWHF, hopkick, d/b+4)
+ He doesn't rely on himself in juggles anymore, so more juggle damage is guaranteed
+ <dramatic> SOUL OMEN... </end dramatic>

CONS:
- Sometimes, there's just too much risk to be taken
- There are still better guys to initiate combos with (*cough* the rest of the Mishimas *cough*)
- In a situation like that, a risky Jin has to stay on a lot to get something in, which means you are open to attacks most of the time

CONSERVATIST MOVEMENT, a.k.a. Common Sense - you can always stick with the old moves, and all of them are still here except the d/f+1,4. For this gameplan, any changes are not really needed, maybe except the new CDS for a little punishing or more ground game.

PROS:
+ Good, ol' Jin still here
+ eCD+1~5, WS 2~5 FTW
+ A good character to form a team with, anything goes

CONS:
- d/f+1,4 is out
- d+4 now quite unsafe



One of these might exactly be the best idea on how to play Jin correctly in the newest installment, all I need is your opinions. Why do you disagree with idea number 1 and why do you agree with number 2, etc., etc.
Everyone can contribute to this debate and feel free to do it, but keep it as clean as possible. Thanks in advance. + + +

Last edited by bsurma on Nov 28th, 2011 at 17:37

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Matuchara
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#2 “Quote” Edit Post
heh you cant just stick to one gameplan cuz opponent will learn how to play against you in first round or two a then be ready for comeback.
Sometimes i gonna spam the new CDS to keep the opponent guessing, and sometimes go to more defensive style. (waiting for good CH launcher or good moment to parry)
Jin has a lot of options now so its hard for me to think of only one gameplan.

AND its a tag game so your gameplan should work good with a partner. So much options!
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bsurma
Shihan
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 121
From: Poland
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#3 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Matuchara
heh you cant just stick to one gameplan cuz opponent will learn how to play against you in first round or two a then be ready for comeback.
Sometimes i gonna spam the new CDS to keep the opponent guessing, and sometimes go to more defensive style. (waiting for good CH launcher or good moment to parry)
Jin has a lot of options now so its hard for me to think of only one gameplan.

AND its a tag game so your gameplan should work good with a partner. So much options!


OK, thanks for adding something to the plate.

When it goes to my style of play, I'll probably go for the new moves more, but also concentrate on punishing and the old wallgame/juggle execution. I'd say 60-70% Risk - 40-30% Common Sense for me.

You also have to take into account that movement in TTT2 is more responsible.
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Crouching_Demon
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#4 “Quote” Edit Post
I'm gonna work a balanced style between the two. I thought about completely transferring over to the next generation Jin, but the play style would be too high risk/reward. Even with Jin now I go from aggressive to defensive, his style hasn't changed. Its just that now his balance scales (offensively and defensively) are more extreme on both ends rather than there being a safe middle. Overall I think mixing the two would be the best way to go.
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bsurma
Shihan
Joined: Jul 2008
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From: Poland
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#5 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Crouching_Demon
I'm gonna work a balanced style between the two. I thought about completely transferring over to the next generation Jin, but the play style would be too high risk/reward. Even with Jin now I go from aggressive to defensive, his style hasn't changed. Its just that now his balance scales (offensively and defensively) are more extreme on both ends rather than there being a safe middle. Overall I think mixing the two would be the best way to go.


The new Jin, the risky next-gen type would probably require a lot of baiting for counter hits, so you could keep it safe with some spicy ingredients like juggles from CH f+4 and so on, and so on. This could be fun, but I'd probably miss the good ol' pokes and the 1+2. :<
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Crouching_Demon
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#6 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by bsurma
The new Jin, the risky next-gen type would probably require a lot of baiting for counter hits, so you could keep it safe with some spicy ingredients like juggles from CH f+4 and so on, and so on. This could be fun, but I'd probably miss the good ol' pokes and the 1+2. :<


Yeah 1+2 getting nerfed is a killer! I did enjoy the poking game quite a bit but now he can utterly destroy your opponents, which I love. He's become a perfect mixture between Kazuya and Lars IMO. Mobility/unpredictabilty of Lars, devastating power and counter hits of Kazuya. He's next generation Mishima and he's a freakin beast!
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bsurma
Shihan
Joined: Jul 2008
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From: Poland
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#7 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Crouching_Demon
Yeah 1+2 getting nerfed is a killer! I did enjoy the poking game quite a bit but now he can utterly destroy your opponents, which I love. He's become a perfect mixture between Kazuya and Lars IMO. Mobility/unpredictabilty of Lars, devastating power and counter hits of Kazuya. He's next generation Mishima and he's a freakin beast!


Yeah, lol, except that Kazuya and Lars are higher in tiers than him

But I don't really care about that. I'm happy about the changes, because taking control of the match with Jin will take even more skill from now on.
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Crouching_Demon
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#8 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by bsurma
Yeah, lol, except that Kazuya and Lars are higher in tiers than him

But I don't really care about that. I'm happy about the changes, because taking control of the match with Jin will take even more skill from now on.


In all honesty, Jin has NO tier. Jin's tier is based on the player. PERIOD. He's whatever tier you want him to be while other characters are obviously tier based. Reason why? His parry. Most destructive defensive tool in the game and like I said earlier, depending on the player, can be a very valuable weapon in achieving victory against even god tier characters like Heihachi or Kazuya in this installment. It creates openings to pop off any of his NC punishers (which now do more damage and cause KD) while frustrating the opponent to no end. The only thing the parry was missing is a good launcher to go along with it, and now with the tag 2 changes, Im sure we can find a way to turn his parried CH into massive juggles. For instance, If Jin punishes a parry with D/f+3,3; you can immediately CDS transition and mega launch with 1+2. OR, this is in theory because im not sure of frame data) Parry a highly punishable move immediately into new CDS1+2. Though the most useful counter i can think of would be his new D/f 1,4. Which is NC so it allows for KD into f+4 oki combination possibilties that are endless. I may be being too optimistic but I think we've been handed the greatest character in the game. Its just a matter of knowing how to use him.

P.S. Him being able to tag with other characters wont hurt either lol
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bsurma
Shihan
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 121
From: Poland
PSN: gggyb
#9 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Crouching_Demon
In all honesty, Jin has NO tier. Jin's tier is based on the player. PERIOD. He's whatever tier you want him to be while other characters are obviously tier based. Reason why? His parry. Most destructive defensive tool in the game and like I said earlier, depending on the player, can be a very valuable weapon in achieving victory against even god tier characters like Heihachi or Kazuya in this installment. It creates openings to pop off any of his NC punishers (which now do more damage and cause KD) while frustrating the opponent to no end. The only thing the parry was missing is a good launcher to go along with it, and now with the tag 2 changes, Im sure we can find a way to turn his parried CH into massive juggles. For instance, If Jin punishes a parry with D/f+3,3; you can immediately CDS transition and mega launch with 1+2. OR, this is in theory because im not sure of frame data) Parry a highly punishable move immediately into new CDS1+2. Though the most useful counter i can think of would be his new D/f 1,4. Which is NC so it allows for KD into f+4 oki combination possibilties that are endless. I may be being too optimistic but I think we've been handed the greatest character in the game. Its just a matter of knowing how to use him.

P.S. Him being able to tag with other characters wont hurt either lol



I guess you're right. Wait a minute... d/f+1,4 after parrying... that's magic! Especially at the wall!
The other characters will probably have a really hard time with Jin if that's the case... I guess Koreans will move him up a tier in their TTT2 list, at least I hope so lol

But is Jin the greatest character in the game? If used to the max, then he'd probably be close to one, but the other Mishimas would be a problem. Anyways, you're talking sense, Crouching_Demon. Guess I'll have to re-think my posts next time, haha
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Crouching_Demon
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#10 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by bsurma
I guess you're right. Wait a minute... d/f+1,4 after parrying... that's magic! Especially at the wall!
The other characters will probably have a really hard time with Jin if that's the case... I guess Koreans will move him up a tier in their TTT2 list, at least I hope so lol

But is Jin the greatest character in the game? If used to the max, then he'd probably be close to one, but the other Mishimas would be a problem. Anyways, you're talking sense, Crouching_Demon. Guess I'll have to re-think my posts next time, haha


This statements gonna get argued, but he always has been. It's always depended on the amount of time and skill you put into him. He's amazing just really hard to use/master. Most "High Tier" characters are just easy buttons. (Aside from TTT2 with the Mishimas because their bread and butter move is extremely hard to master)

But back on topic, Jin's probably gonna get alot of new attention this time around with the dynamic capabilities of his new style. But only those who have taken the time to master him in previous installments could ever hope to master such an advanced character. Sure, new Jin users will be able to take advantage of the mix up capabilities he possesses now, but without a firm understanding of his bread and butter and original play style, it'll be nothing more than shenanigans that will eventually be figured out and exploited. For those who HAVE taken the time to master this character, these new additions are a welcome treat as we can cause alot more damage and tactfully be what I like to call "aggressively defensive" Parries, punishers and mixups being our main weapons with a side of CDS shenanigans to keep the opponent on edge. All this, while still being extremely difficult to play, is what makes Jin awesome. Not just anyone can use him. Its an actual challenge. And you have to know the inner workings of the gameplay itself more than any other character.

I'm going 65% conservative 35% next gen with this one. Seems like the best way to use him with what we know now.
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CorpseThrust200
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#11 “Quote” Edit Post
I don't think there's any distinction in styles, you just make one, no matter who you play.

you pick some cues from here, pick up a few setups from there, make your own stuff, mix and match.

and then there's the opponent. your gamestyle varies as you play different ppl.

my style is mostly defensive, keepout focused, turtle-ish. I keep the opponent out of my face with EWHF, f+4 and stuff. up close I block a lot, look for openings to get either myself out of close range or net those few lows before (again) retreating safely. though I can get offensive if needed.

imo Jin is a character meant to be played defensively. I dunno what to make of the new df+1,4 though, changes quite a lot of stuff.
bsurma
Shihan
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 121
From: Poland
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#12 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by CorpseThrust200
I don't think there's any distinction in styles, you just make one, no matter who you play.

you pick some cues from here, pick up a few setups from there, make your own stuff, mix and match.

and then there's the opponent. your gamestyle varies as you play different ppl.

my style is mostly defensive, keepout focused, turtle-ish. I keep the opponent out of my face with EWHF, f+4 and stuff. up close I block a lot, look for openings to get either myself out of close range or net those few lows before (again) retreating safely. though I can get offensive if needed.

imo Jin is a character meant to be played defensively. I dunno what to make of the new df+1,4 though, changes quite a lot of stuff.


Haha, I play quite the same game with Jin in T6:BR, I like to spam WS moves though.

d/f+1,4 has a lot of offensive potential and you can finally get some close action with Jin. Don't know what to think of d/f+1,4~4 yet, seems like people are simply too lazy to punish it or somethin'... just guessing lol

Actually, no matter how you would like to use Jin, in TTT2 he can satisfy your needs in 90-100%, so players emphasizing on keep-out will get advantage, the guys liking to go all out will also have fun with him.

Jin reminds me somehow of Juri in Super Street Fighter IV when it comes to the core of their play. That's probably why I main both of them in the two games Except that Jin doesn't have projectiles, he has electric fists instead. :p
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Crouching_Demon
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#13 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by CorpseThrust200
I don't think there's any distinction in styles, you just make one, no matter who you play.

you pick some cues from here, pick up a few setups from there, make your own stuff, mix and match.

and then there's the opponent. your gamestyle varies as you play different ppl.

imo Jin is a character meant to be played defensively.


Agreed. I do believe, however, that there IS a way to maximize his potential both offensively and defensively by mixing the two; while still controlling the momentum of the battle.
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CorpseThrust200
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#14 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Crouching_Demon
Agreed. I do believe, however, that there IS a way to maximize his potential both offensively and defensively by mixing the two; while still controlling the momentum of the battle.


well of course, I said that's how he's meant to be played, not how he should be played.

controlling momentum with Jin is a pain in the B-hind, especially with all the pokes ending in -3 or worse. sure you can go places with EWHF, f+3~3, db+4_d+4 and the like, but the there's characters like Steve who whore out b+1 into safe FLK stuff into ss 3,2~f PAB into some more safe stuff into some other bullshit safe CH launcher that leads into more safe stuff... you get my point.

Originally posted by bsurma
Haha, I play quite the same game with Jin in T6:BR, I like to spam WS moves though.

d/f+1,4 has a lot of offensive potential and you can finally get some close action with Jin. Don't know what to think of d/f+1,4~4 yet, seems like people are simply too lazy to punish it or somethin'... just guessing lol

Actually, no matter how you would like to use Jin, in TTT2 he can satisfy your needs in 90-100%, so players emphasizing on keep-out will get advantage, the guys liking to go all out will also have fun with him.

Jin reminds me somehow of Juri in Super Street Fighter IV when it comes to the core of their play. That's probably why I main both of them in the two games Except that Jin doesn't have projectiles, he has electric fists instead. :p


dude, you got no idea how much I miss doing bdc~iws+2 from 5.0

df+1,4~4 seems safe, probably -14 with lotsa pushback (think deathfist). kind of like a get out of close range for free ticket.

yeah, they kind of are improving his offense. but I'd rather go play Lars if I want a momentum machine. I prefer defensive play and Jin suits that style a lot, so I play as him. can't wait to see how team mechanics factor in in TTT2.

and who needs projectiles when you have dewhf and f+4?
Crouching_Demon
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#15 “Quote” Edit Post
Is it just me, or could Jin use some SS/Back turned moves?
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Dr. Cola
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#16 “Quote” Edit Post
I wish Jin was a charge-like character like in SF except, with Jin you don't charge his moves with b, or d/b

But with his Mental alertness, or B+1+2 charge thing, per charge you can add one EWGF on your combo. Max 3 charges. You could do alot of more moves, not only would this help Jin alot but also would put another layer of depth in Jin. Think of Scenario Campaign Jin with doing multiple EWGF's in 1 juggle, with help of charging. When he reaches 3 charges, he glows rage-like red.

I know this sounds so scrubby, but think about it for a minute, it would be a really smart way of buffing Jin making him better yet not broken.
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bsurma
Shihan
Joined: Jul 2008
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#17 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Crouching_Demon
Is it just me, or could Jin use some SS/Back turned moves?


I second this. Something mid with KND/stun would be great (an attack similar to Asuka's SS+2, maybe?)

His CDS 1,2 would look awesome as an SS attack... <drools>

@Dr. Cola

For me, EWHF juggling on normal hit would do just fine lol
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Dr. Cola
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#18 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by bsurma
For me, EWHF juggling on normal hit would do just fine lol
That's a example what a charge could do, EWGF launching on normal hit.
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Inserity
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#19 “Quote” Edit Post
You mean using b+1+2 as a power up?
Dr. Cola
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#20 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Inserity
You mean using b+1+2 as a power up?

Except getting charged and get unblockable'd, if you know what I mean.
Just like a temporarily power-up through-out the round. Like best set-ups to power-up is when Oki situations are presented.

Honestly this would make Jin a way more interesting character, charge up to 3 times. Every time you get a hit with a EWHF with a charge,1 active charge is removed, and you can EWHF up to 2 more times to extend your combo and deplete your charges, or u/f+1+2 instead of slamming opponent in the floor, he throws opponent in the air, see Bob throw that ends in a combo, think of that.

Sorry guys, I have some strange idea's.. my impulsitivity is kicking in

Last edited by Dr. Cola on Oct 4th, 2011 at 23:52

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