TTT2 Alisa General Discussion

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Brennan
Virtuoso
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 224
From: Brazil
PSN: Hyann
#1 “Quote” Edit Post
You guys know the drill: let's talk about anything related to her and stuff.


Let's start with her potential: how do you guys feel about her right now? According to some japanese players, Alisa really got the short end of the stick, losing pretty much what made her competitive and gaining little to compensate.


With the nerfed movement, nerfed db+3 and the like, how she'll fare in the tiers? For now, the early listings places her at the very bottom, next to Ogre.


Are the japanese overreacting, or not?
JTchinoy
Galingan mo!
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1284
From: United States
#2 “Quote” Edit Post
Everyone over reacts like that. Losing her movement is a terrible hit to her, but zafina has good movement in T6 and she still was bottom 3. I doubt Alisa will go below mid tier.
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SSJ-Luffy
Destroyer
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 366
From: Germany
PSN: SSJ-Luffy
#3 “Quote” Edit Post
Checked Alisa's movelist. b+3+4~5 as -19 punisher, which is really bad. For random lowcrush, she has i33 1+2~5. All of her other tag-launcher aren't that great, can be anticipated or unsafe, but never seen the d/b+1,4(~5).

Probably, she has a new way to use. The BOOT to d/b-Stance cancel could be used in the future more.
Taking away red-life isn't surely Alisa's strenght...

Last edited by SSJ-Luffy on Sep 27th, 2011 at 14:23

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Brennan
Virtuoso
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 224
From: Brazil
PSN: Hyann
#4 “Quote” Edit Post
I'm pretty certain that the old Alisa is long gone. Chances are that she's a pretty "new" character in TTT2 regarding her gameplan.


She could also be pretty useful as a "TA Assist" character - especially regarding DES and walls.
DrBhup666
Iron Fist God
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1106
#5 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by JTchinoy
Everyone over reacts like that. Losing her movement is a terrible hit to her, but zafina has good movement in T6 and she still was bottom 3. I doubt Alisa will go below mid tier.


Also, wasn't it just a myth that she had a great movement/ backdash? Didn't Noodals prove that all characters had the exact same backdash? I saw a video on youtube where he overlayed Alisa and Jack-6 and they both covered the exact same space. Noodals did it with a programable stick.

Anyway, someone here said that Alisa didn't have any safe launchers anymore.. is that true?? Isn't df+2 safe anymore? it was i16 before and -9 on block. How is it now?
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Brennan
Virtuoso
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 224
From: Brazil
PSN: Hyann
#6 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by DrBhup666
Anyway, someone here said that Alisa didn't have any safe launchers anymore.. is that true?? Isn't df+2 safe anymore? it was i16 before and -9 on block. How is it now?


Alisa lacks a safe TAGGABLE launcher, that is.
rollyourmother
1st Dan
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 12
#7 “Quote” Edit Post
So here's a stylish combo for any alisa jack users out there.

d/f+2 b+1 ws1,2 1 b+4,3,1+2 5(jack u+1+2) DES3+4,2

If you don't want to go into DES, finish with a b,f+2 for high dmg, good wall carry, time to set up oki, etc.

As far as her prospects are concerned, having a good safe (and long range) mid option out of db+1 has been helping me out a lot.
heartless141
7th Dan
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 80
From: Vietnam
PSN: KanataUS
#8 “Quote” Edit Post
well we still have hope for a patch before the console version, just like BR.

and agreed, gotta love her db1,4
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Snap
Where's the cheese?
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 3230
From: Australia
#9 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by rollyourmother
So here's a stylish combo for any alisa jack users out there.

d/f+2 b+1 ws1,2 1 b+4,3,1+2 5(jack u+1+2) DES3+4,2

If you don't want to go into DES, finish with a b,f+2 for high dmg, good wall carry, time to set up oki, etc.



I don't see the stylishness of that combo, considering the crap damage and lack of real impact FLY 2 does. Maybe if there was a wall, FLY 2,1 would be sweet...



Jack/Alisa: df+2, 2, f,f+1B!~5, [TA! f,f+3,4,4] f,f+1+2,2

If they tech or roll back, Jack gets a free unblocky charge.
Alisa can also uf+3,2 for that combo but I'm not sure on the damage or unblocky charge there.
Snap
Where's the cheese?
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 3230
From: Australia
#10 “Quote” Edit Post
I've been using:

Alisa/Jack: df+2, b+1, ws+2,1, 1, b+4,3B!~5 [TA! 1,2] iwr+2


Pretty sure that'll do more damage than [TA! u+1+2] b,f+2. It also has the added bonus of iwr+3,4 if you're close enough to a wall.

I wouldn't completely rule out [TA! u+1+2] b,f+2 tho. Sometimes if the spacing is perfect, you can w! after it for a 3,2.


For wall tag assault, I've been using:
Alisa/Jack: WB!~5 [TA!f+3,1+2] d+2,4
Jack/Alisa: [TA! f,f+3,4,4] df+3+4

I'm sure there could be better tho, but since the combos are heavily scaled, I'm favouring less hits.

Last edited by Snap on Nov 3rd, 2011 at 14:19

davie
Kyu
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 2
#11 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Snap
I've been using:

Alisa/Jack: df+2, b+1, ws+2,1, 1, b+4,3B!~5 [TA! 1,2] iwr+2


Pretty sure that'll do more damage than [TA! u+1+2] b,f+2. It also has the added bonus of iwr+3,4 if you're close enough to a wall.

I wouldn't completely rule out [TA! u+1+2] b,f+2 tho. Sometimes if the spacing is perfect, you can w! after it for a 3,2.


For wall tag assault, I've been using:
Alisa/Jack: WB!~5 [TA!f+3,1+2] d+2,4
Jack/Alisa: [TA! f,f+3,4,4] df+3+4

I'm sure there could be better tho, but since the combos are heavily scaled, I'm favouring less hits.


For alisa jack combo, you mean ws+1,2 right? also at the end why don't u try isw+2 3+4 2 or 1,2,1,3+4 ? Not sure if it would work tho

I've been using lars+alisa
Lars: f+1+2 db1 db12 db1~f fd1 B!~5 db2,2 ff (run) 2+4 and if wall - f+1+4

Alisa: B!~5 uf+3,3 fff+2


Also:

http://i39.tinypic.com/22ykia.png
heartless141
7th Dan
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 80
From: Vietnam
PSN: KanataUS
#12 “Quote” Edit Post
yeah, db2,2 is pretty much the best choice for a filler right now.
sometimes i use f3,2,2 to floor break too.
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Snap
Where's the cheese?
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 3230
From: Australia
#13 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by davie
For alisa jack combo, you mean ws+1,2 right? also at the end why don't u try isw+2 3+4 2 or 1,2,1,3+4 ? Not sure if it would work tho


No, I meant 1,2, ie. jab to right hook. Does Jack even have a ws+1,2, or did YOU mean ws+2,1?

Pretty sure the iws+2~3+4, FLY 2 would whiff. I've tried iws+2~f+3+4, FLY DES 2 but by that stage, the TA! times out and Jack auto-tags out.



Anyways, I'm feeling pretty disenchanted with Alisa these days. Even against mediocre Lars and Mishimas, it's such a huge struggle. So weak and so punishable.
Toshin
Deity
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 694
From: Australia
PSN: fusion9
#14 “Quote” Edit Post
Snap - did her movement (specificially bd) really get nerfed? I was thinking of picking her up.
Snap
Where's the cheese?
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 3230
From: Australia
#15 “Quote” Edit Post
Yeah, feels so actually. Her range feels a little shorter too, specifically df+4.

Her main faults seem to be:

1) lack of decent tag launcher. ws+2 and b+3+4 tag out slowly and launch far away, like JC df+2,1. This means there's not much the tagging in partner can do. Even Jack 2 will usually whiff, and f,f+1 is too short/slow. Her other stuff will hardly ever land. Compare her 1+2 to Jack ws+1.

2) she's meant to be a turtle character but they took away her best properties. db+3 is nerfed, db+4 less range,bd nerfed. She has no buffs, f+4,1,4 string is just for show and doesn't work in a lot of juggles anyway. She has a lot of one-hit pokes but they are weak and confer no real advantage or pressure. Ops can just patiently wait for a launch themselves.

3) she still ultra-punishable and mid-risk/low reward. It's more that there've been buffs alround while she's just been nerfed.



Good point would be she's not bad as TA! partner and ...........she has chainsaws.

Last edited by Snap on Nov 8th, 2011 at 00:34

Kane
Lucky Lili
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 13359
From: North Korea
PSN: emily_rochefort
#16 “Quote” Edit Post
df4 is pretty shitty ... I thought it was supposed to track to her right, but it does not, at least not in ttt2.

her backdash did get nerfed ... as well as her ss, apparently.

I was testing with lili and alisa to see if they could ss inbetween leo's new kick, shoulder string [b4,1+2] ... lili can, but alisa cannot. I do remember someone saying she had the 2nd best ss in the game in T6 ... but either it's not good enough in ttt2, or it just got nerfed, which I'm thinking is the latter.


although ... she is fun to use. ppl will see when hybrid comes out.

df2, b1, ws12, 1, b43,b! ffF414 ... woo so fun
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R A I N I S M
2nd Dan
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 20
From: USA Illinois
#17 “Quote” Edit Post
Nerfed Backdash - Nerfed SS.

-sigh- Her side stepping and, BDC is what makes her fun playing..
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Snap
Where's the cheese?
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 3230
From: Australia
#18 “Quote” Edit Post
It's getting a bit better.

The nerfs make you play a more complete Alisa.

Was 2,3,3 always all NCc? Pretty sure in BR only the last 3,3 were NCc.

And was uf+3,2 always HC? Window seems pretty big now.

Last edited by Snap on Nov 12th, 2011 at 10:03

SSJ-Luffy
Destroyer
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 366
From: Germany
PSN: SSJ-Luffy
#19 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Snap
It's getting a bit better.

The nerfs make you play a more complete Alisa.

Was 2,3,3 always all NCc? Pretty sure in BR only the last 3,3 were NCc.

And was uf+3,2 always HC? Window seems pretty big now.


(2),3,3 was NC in T6BR, u/f+3,2 was HC in T6BR.
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ColdFire2010
Iron Fist God
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1192
From: Taiwan
PSN: ycl71
#20 “Quote” Edit Post
but 2,3,3 is no longer a launcher, imo it's a big step backwards from (2),3,3 being NC and allows juggle. Why try to bait a NCc string from a 12f when you have other characters like Lee, Dragunov and Wang etc who can do the same with 10f...

All these nerfs makes me cringe... especially the movement. So people complained about her movements being too good in T6BR, so Namco decided to strap a couple of iron balls on her feet while giving the rest of the cast better side steps? She already has uber bad tracking in T6BR except for d/b+3 tracking her left and d/b+4 tracking her right, and both of these got nerfed? Surely someone within the development team must hate her with passion...

u/f+3,2 has always been super easy HC, if nothing has changed then it's still a do-or-die move

the way I look at her now is a much weaker version of Steve... actually no, the two of them don't even come close in terms of similarities, but since the only buff she got was standing 4 giving combo on CH, the only thing she can do now is doing a Steve's b+1... but without the safety, range and tracking of b+1

...may she be back as a better character in the next installment. Meanwhile, may she rest in peace. Amen.

/whinge
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