TTT2 Bob Changes (Read 1st post) + Discussion

Page Splits <1234>...8
Share This Topic
Share
Subscribe/Jump Subscribe This Topic
< >
rogermustdie
Master
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 194
#21 “Quote” Edit Post
who cares
Signature Power always thinks it has a great soul and vast views beyond the comprehension of the weak.

(John Adams)
KiwE
Warrior
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 168
From: Sweden
#22 “Quote” Edit Post
In what way was his "regular" punishment for example even changed ZTS? All I see is CD1 not launching on normalhit and most Bobs punished those situations with uf1+2 anyways (and he has db1+2 also). Is ws21 not 14f? f23 not one of the best 12f punishers in the game? His jabrange been nerfed? I don't see how he can't whiffpunish if belly hasn't had a huge range nerf (it's one of the best whiffpunishers in the game if not the best) either. Are you talking about CD1 here again?
Signature Listen to my latest DJset (Electro/House) @
http://i.mixcloud.com/CBHCx1
Cameroon Moore
Virtuoso
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 234
From: Puerto Rico
PSN: Philly_Ravager
XBL: Philly Ravager
#23 “Quote” Edit Post
Okay, some questions: (1) What about his f,n,d,d/f+1+2? Is it still delayable and have there been any changes at all to it? Any ADV on block? (2) Is f+2,3 still an 12 frame move and usable as a punisher? (3) His d+2,4 still good as a wall carry in a juggle? (4) And, are there any changes to SS+1+2?

I saw on your channel some matches BTW. Thank you for the uploads.
Signature ...
Cameroon Moore
Virtuoso
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 234
From: Puerto Rico
PSN: Philly_Ravager
XBL: Philly Ravager
#24 “Quote” Edit Post
Also, I saw what looked like Bob's f,n,d,D/F+4,1+2 causing KND on 4. It may have been on CH? (Didn't look it but I may be wrong.) Or is it one of those moves like Leo's d/b+4,1 where you get the KND only when inputting the last command?

http://www.youtube.com/user/wogasu#p/u/2/KIN5qb-A6Og
(Skip to 1:53)
Signature ...
jAy-kEi
Fujin
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 585
From: South Korea
PSN: wogus
#25 “Quote” Edit Post
Uf1+2,1+2 being a mid is quite terrible to (whiff/block) punish moves that recover in FC. Best whiff punisher in the game is a bit overrated imo. Asuka f2 beats this move in every situation. CD1 not launching is a huge nerf for me. They could've just deleted that move, I have no idea why they kept this one (it has lost all its use now). I have no idea why they made it launch only on CH. It wasn't OP was it? Bob is still ok with punishing, f23 is hitconfirmable, ws21 is still 14f. F tier is a bit harsh, but he sure has been nerfed. But I will play him regardless.

@Jonman ff2 on CH gives nothing

@Cameroon Moore
- cd1+2 is delayable no + on block
- cd4,1+2 is like Leo's db4,1, only trips if the 1+2 is done
. f23 is still 12f and hitconfirmable
- d24 is ok as a wall carry
- ss1+2 hasnt been changed
Signature
대한민국!
J o n m a n
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 523
PSN: readwatchread
#26 “Quote” Edit Post
Thanks Jay-kei.

One more thing, I've noticed that in more than one video, after hop kick the 3 in d+2,3 misses for his BnB juggle. Any changes in timing (should it be done earlier or delayed)?

Re: u/f1+2, 1+2 punishing moves recovering in FC, is that some kind of nerf to its hit box or was it the since BR? Thanks again.

I think Bob in tag should be partnered w/ chars with good launchers such as Jun or something to compensate for his lack of a NH launcher outside of hopkick/d/b1+2.
Zero the Shadow
I <3 Australia, mate
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2883
From: USA New York
#27 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by KiwE
In what way was his "regular" punishment for example even changed ZTS? All I see is CD1 not launching on normalhit and most Bobs punished those situations with uf1+2 anyways (and he has db1+2 also). Is ws21 not 14f? f23 not one of the best 12f punishers in the game? His jabrange been nerfed? I don't see how he can't whiffpunish if belly hasn't had a huge range nerf (it's one of the best whiffpunishers in the game if not the best) either. Are you talking about CD1 here again?


If you were good which is anyone who ever did anything with Bob you could punish -17 or -18 with CD+1 which lead to a ton of damage AND it was his best wiff punisher. D/b+1+2 us launch punishable and has a crappy launch that leads to mediocre damage. And no F+23 is not one of the best i12 in the game. I'll take Kaz, Jin, King, Armor King, Roger Jr, Bruce, Lars, Dragunov and Law's all over Bob's i12 punisher. The best thing about f+2 was the fact it tracked well but if I remember correctly THAT has been nerfed as well.

Also who wiff punishes with belly? I don't even play Bob and I can get i18 CD+1s out easy. Why would you ever use u/f+1+2 for a wiff when you have safe launchers? It sounds to me that you are not quite as good as you think you are considering you 'THINK" most Bob's use u/f+1+2 for punishment when in fact THEY DON'T. Only starting level Bob's would. That's like saying most Kazuya's use d/f+44 for -14, NO that's not the case.

Also I'm not the only one saying Bob is ass either. I'm sure in a couple more weeks initial tier lists will show what I am talking about. Also if you think Bob's "jab" is going to win you matches all by yourself. Good luck.
Signature Frankie I'll always miss you, RIP.
"Calm Down, Run Around, Throw Shit Out, WTF?!"
"Kills Spirit of Forums!"
"Oh Look it's my favorite move to eat"04/28/06~Mordak 03/20/10~JHonda
jAy-kEi
Fujin
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 585
From: South Korea
PSN: wogus
#28 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by J o n m a n
Thanks Jay-kei.

One more thing, I've noticed that in more than one video, after hop kick the 3 in d+2,3 misses for his BnB juggle. Any changes in timing (should it be done earlier or delayed)?

Re: u/f1+2, 1+2 punishing moves recovering in FC, is that some kind of nerf to its hit box or was it the since BR? Thanks again.

I think Bob in tag should be partnered w/ chars with good launchers such as Jun or something to compensate for his lack of a NH launcher outside of hopkick/d/b1+2.


Hi Jonman,

The vid you saw was probably done against Nina if I'm correct? Anyways Nina was slightly offaxis because of her whiffed WTF sweep. If Bob is not off axis or if he's little to the right there should be no problem landing d23.

Uf1+2,1+2 hitbox hasnt been changed. This was already the case in BR.
Signature
대한민국!
J o n m a n
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 523
PSN: readwatchread
KiwE
Warrior
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 168
From: Sweden
#30 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Zero the Shadow
And no F+23 is not one of the best i12 in the game. I'll take Kaz, Jin, King, Armor King, Roger Jr, Bruce, Lars, Dragunov and Law's all over Bob's i12 punisher. The best thing about f+2 was the fact it tracked well but if I remember correctly THAT has been nerfed as well.


The best thing about f23 is its range which is one of the best in the game (it punishes EVERYTHING) and that it was a KD (and wallsplat). It's also more damage then King, AK's, Roger, Dragunovs, Jin's which you have listed but it's ok. You don't even play Bob after all; you just get defensive about the hersay you spread.

Also if you think Bob's "jab" is going to win you matches all by yourself. Good luck.


Where did I say that?
Also; are you aware that Bob and Wang have the longest reaching jab's in the game? And yes it is a big deal. T6 is all about jabs and df1.

It sounds to me that you are not quite as good as you think


Where did I say I think I was good at this game? Do you always argue by trying to put words in other peoples mouths like this? Do you always get aggressive?

You've stated this;
He can't wiff punish, he can't regular punish, he can't apply pressure anymore


His "regular punish" seems pretty much unchanged. jAy-kEi himself stated that it was still ok. It's not that he CAN'T punish that's for sure. If you use strong language like that prepare to get called out on it. His pokes seem pretty much unchanged (feel free to say otherwise), so it's not like he can't apply pressure anymore (even though you sit and laugh at his jabs and poking - maybe you should watch Evo this year to see how good those jabs and pokes are). Of course d1 changes are a huge blow but he still has nice mids.

Edit: Don't want to start a fight and this is really not the time or place for it.

Last edited by KiwE on Sep 19th, 2011 at 01:57

J o n m a n
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 523
PSN: readwatchread
#31 “Quote” Edit Post
based on the official moves list, cd1 is taggable.

NH cd1 does not launch right, what happens though if you do:

cd1~5 on NH?
Cameroon Moore
Virtuoso
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 234
From: Puerto Rico
PSN: Philly_Ravager
XBL: Philly Ravager
#32 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by jAy-kEi
@Cameroon Moore
- cd1+2 is delayable no + on block
- cd4,1+2 is like Leo's db4,1, only trips if the 1+2 is done
. f23 is still 12f and hitconfirmable
- d24 is ok as a wall carry
- ss1+2 hasnt been changed


Thanks.

P.S. see if you can get your hands on some more vids.
Signature ...
jAy-kEi
Fujin
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 585
From: South Korea
PSN: wogus
#33 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by J o n m a n
based on the official moves list, cd1 is taggable.

NH cd1 does not launch right, what happens though if you do:

cd1~5 on NH?


cd1 is not possible to tag either NH or CH
Signature
대한민국!
J o n m a n
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 523
PSN: readwatchread
#34 “Quote” Edit Post
oh sorry, i misread the document. (what i saw was cd2~5 after all)

Thanks again.
KOR
SOUTH AFRICAN TEXAN
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3135
From: USA Texas
#35 “Quote” Edit Post
So, ZTS.. I don?t understand why you say bobs going to be F tier.
From playing TTT2 at evo, he felt still pretty strong to me..

TBH, as a whiff punish I would do cd1, but it can?t punish low whiffed attacks..
So uf1+2, 1+2 is good in that situation, but you could just be tight and do cd+2. That?s harder but it works.
[Which is still the same in TTT2]

And for bobs pressure game, its still there as long as he has his jabs [which felt the same], b22, db3, db3+4,4, fff3, and of course df1.
As long as D+1 is still 18F I can still get off the counter hit. Which still makes it a great move!

Jay-Kei thanks for all your updates, this is great stuff.
One question though, from when I played TTT2, the cd4 tripped down and apparently u could get crouch-cancel d434 [according to filthyrich, I could NOT pull it off]
So im guessing in the new patch, cd4 doesn?t trip? If that?s the case, I better get hella frame advantage!

I think hes still going to be good guys! Stay positive! Ff+2 sounds like TEHHH SHIT! Cant wait to use that instead of ss1+2 on the wall.
Signature I WILL ATTAIN PERFECTION
Originally Posted by EDDY PISTONS:
I could say we dont play in tx, or you know practice, it would make for a easy excuse but we are texans, we don't know what that means
GMMA.US
12step
Warrior
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 153
From: Germany
#36 “Quote” Edit Post
cd+1 propertie changes sucks. Who needs CH cd+1 when you can go for CH cf+2. Only reason might be range issues.

Backdash into FC for ws+21 whiffpunishment is still there, so its okay. d

d+1 nerf hurts, too.
Signature We need more db+2s !!!!!


www.TekkenTR.com !!!
J o n m a n
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 523
PSN: readwatchread
#37 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by KOR

From playing TTT2 at evo, he felt still pretty strong to me..


Keep up the good work KOR. You rep'd Bob really well.

Any upcoming changes will seem weird to a lot of players. (w/c reminds me of t6 bob and the removal of his NH df2 launch) Now everybody's going to feel a little different due to the changes on his head butt and other popular moves.
jAy-kEi
Fujin
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 585
From: South Korea
PSN: wogus
#38 “Quote” Edit Post
@KOR
cd4 doesnt trip on NH. Havent seen on CH yet. From the looks of it its still just as bad as in BR (the frame advantage if there is any )

@Jonman
I have no idea why they changed his headbutt, while Ogre gets his BR version. Although both are unsafe now for the first part (which I think it's ok).

Quick updates
- df3+4 doesnt launch anymore (only trips), you have to do the follow up for a B!
- cd2~5 gives such a huge launch, I managed to get a fff2 B! with steve. It's also a safe tag out if you use it as a post B! move

EDIT:
Checking wiki inatekken, found some unconfirmed interesting stuff (will try to confirm this later on):
- db1+2 = -13?
- 1,d4 = -12?
- d1 = -9? (I honestly think this is not true, I know when I'm -9)
- 112 = -1 on hit?
- db3+4,4 = -15? (first part), follow up is -28
- fff3 = +9? (all the fff3 seems to be nerfed)
- ws1,3 = -13?

Last edited by jAy-kEi on Sep 20th, 2011 at 10:26

Signature
대한민국!
Zero the Shadow
I <3 Australia, mate
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2883
From: USA New York
#39 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by KOR
So, ZTS.. I don?t understand why you say bobs going to be F tier.
From playing TTT2 at evo, he felt still pretty strong to me..

TBH, as a whiff punish I would do cd1, but it can?t punish low whiffed attacks..
So uf1+2, 1+2 is good in that situation, but you could just be tight and do cd+2. That?s harder but it works.
[Which is still the same in TTT2]

And for bobs pressure game, its still there as long as he has his jabs [which felt the same], b22, db3, db3+4,4, fff3, and of course df1.
As long as D+1 is still 18F I can still get off the counter hit. Which still makes it a great move!

Jay-Kei thanks for all your updates, this is great stuff.
One question though, from when I played TTT2, the cd4 tripped down and apparently u could get crouch-cancel d434 [according to filthyrich, I could NOT pull it off]
So im guessing in the new patch, cd4 doesn?t trip? If that?s the case, I better get hella frame advantage!

I think hes still going to be good guys! Stay positive! Ff+2 sounds like TEHHH SHIT! Cant wait to use that instead of ss1+2 on the wall.


KOR you know I have a great deal of respect for you and your opinions. I just have trouble seeing how he can be truly effective character when he lacks so many tools. I see problems where outside of his jab what does he really have to control the pace of the match now that d+1 has been so heavily nerfed? What range does Bob want to be at now that his wiff punishment has been weakened and his up close game has as well? u/f+1+2 being jab punishable too seems unfair considering the removal of CD+1. Bob was fine the way he was IMHO. I think my points are fair though butIf you think he's completely fine then I wont argue.
Signature Frankie I'll always miss you, RIP.
"Calm Down, Run Around, Throw Shit Out, WTF?!"
"Kills Spirit of Forums!"
"Oh Look it's my favorite move to eat"04/28/06~Mordak 03/20/10~JHonda
MYK [jamgi]
BoOoOOmM!!!!!
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 6158
From: USA California
PSN: MYK-jamgi
#40 “Quote” Edit Post
I'm liking this new ff2 change. The new 2,1 looks so wacky. Well at least his ss1+2 is the same.

Good stuff Wogus!
Signature "What is Love?"

 All times are GMT. The time now is 11:21

Page Splits <1234>...8
Moderator Tools
Forum Jump