Jinpachi move list analysis

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curlupanddie
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#61 “Quote” Edit Post
Hmm.. 14f is fast, i think it's just difficult to punish Lars' u/f+3 coz d/f+2 is 14f and high... what about delaying it a bit... just saying
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AZYG4LYFE
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#62 “Quote” Edit Post
Really, at least can't you float lars from it rather than launch him from his standing state?

d/b+2,1 not HC, no worries...I'm not that disappointed..too much


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Draakur
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#63 “Quote” Edit Post
So far quite liking d+2,1.

D/b+1,2 and d/b+2,1 are very handy.

Liking b+2 obviously.

D/b+3,1 and d+3 are about what I thought they'd be, good for what they are.

Working on filling out the rest of his less obvious stuff now. Pachi is feeling decent so far, rocking Team DOTA atm (Wang/Pachi).

+edit+
Can confirm FLY 1,1,2~2 involves some degree of strict timing, though I haven't figured it out yet. Mashing out the input will almost always result in just FLY 1,1,2.

Last edited by Draakur on Dec 15th, 2011 at 13:03

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Draakur
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#64 “Quote” Edit Post
Sorry for double post, but wtf? Did Sunshine Yellow's movelist always have u/b+1,2 marked as homing?! O_O I hadn't noticed this at all, don't recall seeing any white streaks, and I don't think anyone's mentioned it either. Will investigate and report back...
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Asuka_cherrie
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#65 “Quote” Edit Post
top 10 for jinpachi? anyone?
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Draakur
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#66 “Quote” Edit Post
Impressions so far (standard disclaimer; the game is brand new, still probably missing lots of stuff, blah blah):

So far Jinpachi feels... decent. I can see why he's not been rated in the top few tiers, but he's certainly not bad by any means. He's exceptionally simple/basic, must have just about the smallest movelist in the game, but this is not necessarily a bad thing of course. He's fairly linear I'm finding, and seems to have a plethora of slowish to very slow KND mids, most of which seem rubbish or can easily be replaced with better alternatives (u/f+4, f+1+4, f,f+4, f,f+3, d/f+4, f+1+2, etc etc). Not having an accessible mid launcher hurts him a fair bit I'm finding, though u/b+1,2 may be that launcher that I'm looking for, so I'll reserve judgement on that (btw did not find any homing properties on this, despite the movelist entry).

He has *a few* decent pokes, but I find it's enough to get him by, so this is fine. His d+1 range is pretty great, which we can see in vids anyway. Same deal with lows really, has enough to get him by and cover various different bases to an acceptable standard (d+3, d/b+2,1, d/b+3,1, d/b+4).

Stuff like u+4, reversal, d/b+1,2, his frame punishment and his range make for a very defensive playstyle, but he doesn't really have anything in the way of solid keep-out aside from d/b+1,2 (no magic 4, no hit-confirmable shining fists, his d/f+4 is hella slow, no noteworthy CH strings). I guess he has d+1 and stuff like that, but it's nothing amazing. Neither FLY 3,4 nor FLY 2 are safe, and FLY 4 is launch punishable obviously. so FLY mixups will always be limited (though can still be effective at walls). His b+2 is like a few frames faster than Paul's, but isn't safe, which is annoying. Good damage though on CH obv.

I would say his damage is fine, just normal based on what I've seen.

Strengths:
- basically top tier frame punishment
- KND low for solid damage
- pokes decently
- good range overall
- i14 launcher

Weaknesses:
- no go-to mid launcher until d/f+1+2 (this may change)
- pretty linear
- little in the way of offensive pressure
- homing moves aren't spammable
- nothing stands out as overly "awesome"

General stuff:
- after d+3, ws+3 can be interrupted by crouch jab
- d/f+1 and ws+3 both track left quite well
- pretty sure d/b+1,2 is -15 or more (this sucks, would rather AK's d+1,4)
- after 1,2, wr+3 will catch backroll
- the second hit of d/b+2,1 can whiff when off axis (after the first hits)
- b+3+4 can sometimes give you that little bit of extra range you need to tag out safely
- +edit+ f+2+3 isn't spirit bomb either, just a normal unblockable


Reading back over this it looks more negative than positive, but I don't think Jinpachi is bad, just limited somewhat. Would like to find uses for all the big slow mids that seem shit right now (maybe some tracking in there somewhere). Vs'ing Shotokan's Mishimas mostly today, was enormously difficult at times (ewgf is just ridiculously good now and getting around it is an art in itself), so it could be that I'm comparing him to them in my head and expecting too much.

Last edited by Draakur on Dec 20th, 2011 at 13:21

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force
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#67 “Quote” Edit Post
how do you do the spiritball thing after FLY 112?

Last edited by force on Dec 21st, 2011 at 15:09

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force
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#68 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Angelo1
GenkiDama that B! and is unblockable


that's ws2 1+2 then tag assault ftw!
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Draakur
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#69 “Quote” Edit Post
More stuff:
- d/b+1,2 is confirmed as launch punishable,-15 at least I've found but inatekken says -16. There goes that for keepout most of the time
- was hoping very much d+2,1 was hit-confirmable, would have been epic for pressure and CH (d+2)<1 juggle possibilities, etc etc. But... its not
- d/b+3,1 is a KND low, and that's all well and good, but the properties are pretty weak. You need to be quite close for the consistent KND, otherwise they just take the hit without falling, then block the second hit and punish you. This can happen off axis at times too for some weird reason. So not at all as strong as say Kaz's cd+4,1
- d/b+2,1 has weird axis shit too, second hit was pretty consistently not landing if you're more than like 45 degrees to the side... =/

- d/b+4 looks to be -16. So, his lows...
> d/b+4 = launchable on block, no crush, neg on hit
> d+3 = launchable on block, able to be blocked on reaction, 0 on hit
> FLY 4 = launchable on block, slow to come out
> d/b+3 = launchable on block, no KND unless close, effectively "punishable on hit" if you go for d/b+3,1 and got the range wrong
His d/b+2 isn't launch punishable (though d/b+2,1 is obviously), but inatekken says it's neg on hit too (along with d/b+2,1), which is contrary to what someone else mentioned in this thread. Hope they're wrong...


- and the big one: was certain the followups after d/f+1+2 that I was testing today would land for juggles, which is why I referred to it as a launcher in my previous post, I just took it as a given, but... none of them did. Unless iws+1,1 happens to hit (I really don't see this happening), I don't think Jinpachi has a mid launcher from standing.... O_O

Last edited by Draakur on Dec 21st, 2011 at 07:47

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#70 “Quote” Edit Post
d/f1+2 can connect with u/b1,2 or not?

by the way his u/b1 is hit ground
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AZYG4LYFE
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#71 “Quote” Edit Post
I'll rephrase after spotting poking starter's post.

If u/b+1,2 won't connect (even after deep dash), then at least is it possible to tag from it?

If not, guess it's oki options...





AZ

Last edited by AZYG4LYFE on Dec 21st, 2011 at 15:50

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MCP
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#72 “Quote” Edit Post
d/b+3,1 only working up close is fine. Just like falling leaf for Paul. If it walls stuns, pretty damn good mixup if he has a good wall splatting mid.

Could probably chase tech rollers like with Paul as well. f,f,d/f,f,f, d/b+3,1 or whatever is appropriate.

Hopefully up close keep out doesn't become an issue and hopefully there is some good mid X_X.
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#73 “Quote” Edit Post
http://www.youtube.com/cyfren#p/u/64/JcH0Kv8DLBs

7.36

so he have two standing mid laucher? (d/f1+2 and u/b1,2)
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Draakur
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#74 “Quote” Edit Post
Very strange, I was trying u/b+1 after d/f+1+2 today and it wasn't working at all... :S I tried dashing but admittedly not many times, so I guess it's possible I've just mistimed it. Here's hoping, I'll try this more and see what happens, we may yet be ok!

Also, u/b+1,2 isn't a NC, so no, it's not a launcher.

Originally posted by MCP
Just like falling leaf for Paul. If it walls stuns, pretty damn good mixup if he has a good wall splatting mid.

No W! unless they're at that sweet spot range about a meter and a half off the wall. But no splat when you're just forcing them into mid_low right up against the wall.

- in other news, u+4 is everything I'd thought and more, crazy properties, I understand why it's being rinsed so hard in vids. All the stuff we've seen so far (good speed, safe, mid, KND on normal hit for free stomp) and found today it tracks both SW very well. If they start just staying down to take the stomp, you can d+1+2 for a bit more damage too (this tracks both sideroll directions as well). Good news all round on this.

- his f+4 is only +2 on block I think (crouch jab beats out his d/f+1 after), not sure why it'd be weaker than normal Mishima f+4 but there you go

- the ws+1<1 hit confirm thing is preeeetty tight... I'm inclined to say there'll be very few people who can manage this, if it's actually able to be done at all.

+edit+
Ok, ina says his d/f+1 is actually i14, didn't even think to check this. So maybe his f+4 is still +3.

Last edited by Draakur on Dec 22nd, 2011 at 07:13

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Sw!tchblade
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#75 “Quote” Edit Post
I noticed that ff+3 doesn't hit grounded opponents...
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yomikumaish
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#76 “Quote” Edit Post
Jinpachi is weird in a sense that pretty much most of his most used moves leave him in a pretty huge negative frame.

So I suppose you can go two ways with him. You either out turtle your opponent and punish everything with df2 and use super chip lows and mids to deal damage and using things like push backs on blocks/hit to facilitate his game. Or you just go crazy and then use moves like b1+3, generic d12, u4, d3/db21/db31 to crush/stuff away all of your opponent's moves.
Turtling is way easier by the way.

Anyway, so far prominent moves are:
1. u4. i15, tracks both ways, free d4, arguably his best mid.
2. df2. Only standing launcher, use randomly and hope for a launch.
3. d21. Good long range mid poke.
4. df1. fast mid poke. -0~1 on block.
5. b4. Homing, +frame on block, high, wallsplats.
6. Generic d12. Good damage, wallsplats/KNDS on CH. Though its -16 on block, just use it when you know opponent is going to press buttons, eg. u4 on block, d12
7. db21. Good damage, far range, crush high. Only draw back is that it is -1 on db2 and -7 on db21
8. db4. same properties as bruce's d4. Use it at a certain range so opponent's jabs and df1s will whiff after on hit so you can df2.
9. d1. Weird move, -8 on both block and on hit. But long range and at a certain range will guarantee opponent's jabs/df1s will whiff on block.
10. 1b2. can be delayed super long, 2nd hit gives wallsplats/KNDS on CH and is only -3 on block.
11. d3/db31/b2/random ws11 and ws2,1+2/ws441/uf3+4 4/2 mixup/ff4 is +frame on block. Too lazy to explain. Just use and be amazed by the results.
12. b1+3 is abit wth. I may be wrong but it only reverses punches and timings has to be super strict.
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yomikumaish
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#77 “Quote” Edit Post
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Draakur
(no magic 4, ).

What are you talking about? He has a i12 magic 4 that gives a full juggle on CH!
Also, Wiki.livedoor says his crouch grab d1+3/d2+4 gives a full juggle. d1+3, u4, ub12 b!~fly 122~2.
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#78 “Quote” Edit Post
1.Is his d+2,1 safe?

2. ff+4 hit ground?
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force
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#79 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by poking starter
1.Is his d+2,1 safe?

2. ff+4 hit ground?


d+2, 1 is safe...

ff+4 hits grounded...
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Draakur
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#80 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by yomikumaish
What are you talking about? He has a i12 magic 4 that gives a full juggle on CH!
Also, Wiki.livedoor says his crouch grab d1+3/d2+4 gives a full juggle. d1+3, u4, ub12 b!~fly 122~2.

Haha awesome on the crouch grab That's sick! Must try.

And I had his 4 clocked at i14 =/ And inatekken says i13 heh. Lots of varying information. I hope you're right though. A magic 4 would go a long way Gogo Grandpa Mishima!
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