Hwoarang: Ask a Question, Get an Answer (III)

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j00n
Getting Old
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 955
From: USA New York
#1 “Quote” Edit Post
Last known post by 3L1:

---
First, stop mashing & watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7H6DUrQZFA

Second, Hwoarang's strings are usefull when applied right. If your opponent doesn't know to SS or duck at the right time then you can string all day, if not then prepare to eat launchers. That being said, he has lots of tools that aren't part of his string game.

1,1 MASH = fail. here's some basic frame theory:
1,1 on hit is +9, meaning you will recover 9 frames faster then your opponent. Since the fastest move in the game is 10 frames, the fastest move that they can possibly throw at you after 1,1 hits them will take 19 frames to connect. at 15 frames you have d/f+2, at 16 (I think) frames you have JFSR, and at 18 frames you have b+3. So if they try to attack you right away they get LAUNCHED.

go here:
http://sdtekken.com/tekken-6/hwoarang-frame-data/
do some math, and win some matches
---
Inserity
Iron Fist God
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1740
From: USA California
PSN: Inserity
XBL: Steam: Inserity
#2 “Quote” Edit Post
JFSR and b+3 other way around.

b+3 is 16f and JFSR is 18f.

~~~

On db+3, it's not seeable. It can be telegraphed like Lars' db+4 due to the ducking animation but you're only getting it blocked if they guess.
JFK[satZ]
Sage
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 464
From: Sweden
#3 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Inserity
JFSR and b+3 other way around.

b+3 is 16f and JFSR is 18f.

~~~

On db+3, it's not seeable. It can be telegraphed like Lars' db+4 due to the ducking animation but you're only getting it blocked if they guess.


Heh, why try to correct someone when you youself are also wrong. Common knowledge, since forever, that b+3 is i17 and -15 on block. JFSR has a 16 frame animation but the actual attack comes out at the fastest at i18 frames, due to execution. Dunno how fast you can manage to pull it out from block though.

/ JFK
Signature Embrace the satZ within.
Razer Athane
Berserker
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 403
From: Australia
#4 “Quote” Edit Post
Thanks to LordSilver and 3L1 for replying, appreciate it dearly.

@LordSilver: It'd still be a useful tool for me I think. Not to use all the time but to at least know I suppose. And hmm you're right about the opponent adapting/learning to avoid it. Must've slipped my mind at one point or another (then again I often have a headache. Bleh). Yup! I'm in Sydney, Campbelltown to be more specific. I would post around here a bit more atm but I feel a bit intimidated/am quite shy. I'll post in the Sydney thread sooner or later so don't worry... ^^; I've only ever been to GGS once, I didn't play though because DEM MAGIC THE GATHERING/YUGIOH/ETC CARD BOIZ kept staring at my tits, so I lol'd and then left and went back to Galaxy World (the one near McDonalds).

@3L1: I've already seen that vid (when it came out/while I was learning/before I got shit), and while it was unquestioningly helpful in a lot of aspects, I don't think it sunk in my brain entirely (at least in regards to strings 'n stuff). I'm aware that if an opponent knows the right time to SS etc then BOOM LAUNCHED etc. But like I said to LordSilver I'd like to at least know how to because I feel like a dick not knowing. I've already dabbled in frame data before (albeit not entirely), but I guess I forgot -_-; I just... panic. Which I know isn't the best of things. Thanks for that ^^ I'll re-check out that vid when I'm done with my Uni work *grrunigrr*. Guess I need to keep an eye on highs/what moves can be SS'd/etc.

Thank you very much for your help, boys

Last edited by Razer Athane on Mar 30th, 2011 at 09:48

Jiraiya-Sama23
Shihan
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 117
From: USA Louisiana
PSN: Jiraiya-Sama2390
#5 “Quote” Edit Post
Question: in the juggle: 2,3,3~f,1, dash, 2,4,2, f,f+3, B!, I'm having trouble landing the ff+3. Any tips/suggestions?
Signature I walk my own path, regardless of what direction other men take.

Ling of New Orleans
Razer Athane
Berserker
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 403
From: Australia
#6 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Jiraiya-Sama23
Question: in the juggle: 2,3,3~f,1, dash, 2,4,2, f,f+3, B!, I'm having trouble landing the ff+3. Any tips/suggestions?


ff+3 definitely hits for that juggle. It could be the way you're inputting it/delaying the input, so, instead of waiting that little bit, try putting it in sooner. If its like a timing issue for the move itself, think of it as Xiaoyu's ff+1, the feel is essentially the same in regards to input.
Jiraiya-Sama23
Shihan
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 117
From: USA Louisiana
PSN: Jiraiya-Sama2390
#7 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Razer Athane
ff+3 definitely hits for that juggle. It could be the way you're inputting it/delaying the input, so, instead of waiting that little bit, try putting it in sooner. If its like a timing issue for the move itself, think of it as Xiaoyu's ff+1, the feel is essentially the same in regards to input.


I'll try it that way, thanks
Signature I walk my own path, regardless of what direction other men take.

Ling of New Orleans
Entomo
7th Dan
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 88
From: Finland
PSN: Entomo_FI
#8 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Jiraiya-Sama23
Question: in the juggle: 2,3,3~f,1, dash, 2,4,2, f,f+3, B!, I'm having trouble landing the ff+3. Any tips/suggestions?

Delay LFS 3~f as much as possible. Also if there is an angle, don't go for that combo.
Signature www.Arctic-Charge.com - The Nordic Fighting Game Community
3L1
Moderator
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1024
From: Canada
PSN: TKM_3L1
XBL: Threeli
#9 “Quote” Edit Post
Woot first post!

@Razer
in a general sense, you really have to just go in & take your lumps with him. When you lose, try to think about what went wrong and how to fix that. It's very hard to just learn by ozmosis (letting things just sink in) but it can happen. If your issue is that you panic then what you have to work on is simple: DON'T PANIC

@everyone else
I don't have all the frames memorized, just going off the sdtekken frame data list
Inserity
Iron Fist God
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1740
From: USA California
PSN: Inserity
XBL: Steam: Inserity
#10 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by JFK[satZ]
Heh, why try to correct someone when you youself are also wrong. Common knowledge, since forever, that b+3 is i17 and -15 on block. JFSR has a 16 frame animation but the actual attack comes out at the fastest at i18 frames, due to execution. Dunno how fast you can manage to pull it out from block though.

/ JFK
Sorry. Don't play Hwo anymore. I thought for sure it was i16f. I've always played it like that. Guess I was punishing -17 and not -16.

I do know JFSR is (16)18. Sometimes it's confusing to type it like that though. But you have a point about it on block.

Does anyone know if JFSR can come out at 16f on block like EWGFs?
EpicStoffer
Raijin
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 646
From: Denmark
PSN: Lucidity64
XBL: EpicStoffer
#11 “Quote” Edit Post
What`s the best wallcarrie juggle from jfsr?

Right now i`m using jfsr, rff 3-4, dash, 2,f-3,f+4,3 but i was hoping we had a wallcarrie with a greater reach (only other one i can think of with some reach is 2,3,1 dash 2,4,2 b+4, but i was hoping that there maybe was others?)

And i`m guessing that it would at the same time be the most damaging juggle he has?

-Stoffer

Last edited by EpicStoffer on Mar 31st, 2011 at 07:04

Signature Tekken, is at its best, a way of stepping out of the restrictive boundaries of reality that chains so many martial artists. Using this apporach, it lets the martial artist indulge in a vivid and detailed extension of his fantasy, that implores him to test its limits. B! by the some of the same mechanics, that is present in different ways throughout art. The Tekken player can at his best, produce an artistic creativity, that rivals even the Mona Lisa.
Online Tekken on the other hand, is the artist who put his shit in a can, and sold its weight in gold.
Razer Athane
Berserker
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 403
From: Australia
#12 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by 3L1
@Razer
in a general sense, you really have to just go in & take your lumps with him. When you lose, try to think about what went wrong and how to fix that. It's very hard to just learn by ozmosis (letting things just sink in) but it can happen. If your issue is that you panic then what you have to work on is simple: DON'T PANIC


+1 to you for that image

Anyway. I've noticed that I tend to be a bit linear so I'll try and fix that in addition to my "FUCKITTY FUCK FUCK" panic. Cheers ^^
mistmatch
Lone Wolf
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 342
From: USA California
PSN: AvidMind
#13 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by EpicStoffer
What`s the best wallcarrie juggle from jfsr?

-Stoffer


JFSR, RFF 3~4, 2,3,1, 2,4,2, b+4.

thats the staple as far as wall carrying . also (very impractical) i did

JFSR RFF 3~4, 2,3, 3~f, 1, (dash)u/f+3+4
Signature Low Tier ftw.
Ixayek_usurper
Tekken Lord Black
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 986
From: Ireland
XBL: Ixayek_Usurper
#14 “Quote” Edit Post
@razer:

Two things to remember about tekken
1)there are no spammable moves
2)there always a way out of a particular situation (remember though, the next time your in that situation, if your opponents good they'll adjust their play to account for your previous action the last time you we're in that situation, so take that into account when attacking/defending)



The easiest example to use is ofc Hwo:



Consider this;
I'm P1 (Hwo) atk,f | Resulting Action | your P2 (Hwo) Pxn, f | Notes

>LFF f,f+3 (23f) | {B +6f} | RC (-6f)


Firstly, let me just say that when i'm +6 or greater, i'm looking for a JFSR.
I'll usually put an opponent in this position (after a Blocked LFF f,f+3) atleast 2~3times during a match and try to deduce the right time to pull out the JFSR

Aside from that,

-> Now, whilst i'm +6 and your recovering crouching, a good tekken player, will generally SSu into the background so i do:
>RFF F+3 (13f) | {H +12LFS} | -12f S | good LFS pressure position for P1. escape/avoid for P2: d+1_BDc



->If however i feel you'll d+1, i have a few options;
1)
>RFF d/f+4 (14f) | {CH +15LFS} | -15f S | guarenteed follow-ups here for P1. escape/avoid: dont attack, opp.'s d/f+4 will whiff due to range, launch_BDc

2)
>LRFF u/f+3+4,4 (14f) | {CH -1 LFS} | -1f S | bad dmg for p2. Can just do the first part of u/f+3+4 to be at +2 and search for a CH LFF B+2_SS 4_SS JFSR etc etc

3)
>RFF 3,4 (16f) | {CH +14RFS} | -14f S | bad dmg for p2, bad position

4)
>LRFF d/b+4,4 (16f) | {CH KND} | KND | guarenteed LFF f,f+3 for P1

5)
>LRFF HH (28f) | {H, JG} | JG | you juggled sucka!



escape from all of the above= BDc



-> If i feel you'll BDc:
>RFF f,f+3 (23f) | {H (if poor exec. from P2)} | KND | guarenteed LFF f,f+3 for P1




So,
the best option for the defending player(P2) is to BDc (properly) or just return to standing guard and try to anticipate the P1's next attack.

-> if i feel you'll just stand and wait;
1)
>RFF 2,4~f_4~f [insert pressure string] (10_11f) | {B} | S, -6 | good pxn for P1. Here you can apply so much of Hwo's string pressure

2)
>RFF 3~4 (27~28f) | {B} | S, -6 | JFSR setup position for P1, or CH LFF B+4 bait


etc etc....


There are other options ofc.
I've just listed a few of the most common.

P1 could just, if they feel that P2 will throw out a WS launcher, BD in RFF and then whiff punish them with a JFSR
Same for SS.


Hopefully that gives some insight into Hwo attack and defense.
*shrugs shoulders*
Signature Parsnip, ketchup..!?... Hop in the van!!?! *shrugs shoulders*
l0rds1lv3r
War Lord
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 742
From: Australia
#15 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Razer Athane
Thanks to LordSilver and 3L1 for replying, appreciate it dearly.

@LordSilver: It'd still be a useful tool for me I think. Not to use all the time but to at least know I suppose. And hmm you're right about the opponent adapting/learning to avoid it. Must've slipped my mind at one point or another (then again I often have a headache. Bleh). Yup! I'm in Sydney, Campbelltown to be more specific. I would post around here a bit more atm but I feel a bit intimidated/am quite shy. I'll post in the Sydney thread sooner or later so don't worry... ^^; I've only ever been to GGS once, I didn't play though because DEM MAGIC THE GATHERING/YUGIOH/ETC CARD BOIZ kept staring at my tits, so I lol'd and then left and went back to Galaxy World (the one near McDonalds).

@3L1: I've already seen that vid (when it came out/while I was learning/before I got shit), and while it was unquestioningly helpful in a lot of aspects, I don't think it sunk in my brain entirely (at least in regards to strings 'n stuff). I'm aware that if an opponent knows the right time to SS etc then BOOM LAUNCHED etc. But like I said to LordSilver I'd like to at least know how to because I feel like a dick not knowing. I've already dabbled in frame data before (albeit not entirely), but I guess I forgot -_-; I just... panic. Which I know isn't the best of things. Thanks for that ^^ I'll re-check out that vid when I'm done with my Uni work *grrunigrr*. Guess I need to keep an eye on highs/what moves can be SS'd/etc.

Thank you very much for your help, boys


@Razer : Next time you come to the city to play Tekken, let me know. I will teach you Hwoarang inside out. I will give you advice as well.

@everyone :

Regarding to JFSR... It is 16F LFF and 19F RFF. there are big difference here.
The trick is to Buffer the Forward for The JFSR and Back to do B+3 wiff punish. I'm well known as best Wiff Punisher. But the problem is that you always focus on the kicks. I remember I only have my fingers on 3 and 4 For wiff punishing moves. Then It's so hard for me to react on grabs . This was 1 1/2 years ago, So I changed my playstyle having thumb on 1 and 2. Middle finger on 3 and 4. Since I used hwoarang for a long time, and I Commited to hwoarang... I also found out the easiest way for myself to use JFSR. By using Thumb for forward and middle finger for DF for P2. just make sure you tap them slighty not all the way.

I could JFSR at anytime whenever I want without fear In Arcade.

Also, there is something that I have to mention, which is the Hwoarang Playstyle... I know there is one from Japan... which was just LFF all the time backdashing and dashing where the koreans does Fox Steps which is stance changing.

In my opinion I dont like Fox Steps coz I can't wiff punish as much But this technique can confuse the opponent It depends on what kind of playstyle you like or you want to learn.

I know the techniques may not work for everyone, but I found my own technique .

B+3 is 17 frames.... please look at the Frame Data

Also there is a mistake on FF+2 it's acctually 2 Grab break not 1+2. I notice this long time ago :p couldnt be bothered to comment on it till now.

IF YOU GUYS WANT TO LEARN HWOARANG SERIOUSLY....

you guys should watch Tekken Delay Catch in Youtube, It teaches you on how to deal with different characters with hwoarang such as punishing their attacks.

Any other questions you could ask me Hopefully I could answer them
Ixayek_usurper
Tekken Lord Black
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 986
From: Ireland
XBL: Ixayek_Usurper
#16 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by l0rds1lv3r
So I changed my playstyle having thumb on 1 and 2. Middle finger on 3 and 4. Since I used hwoarang for a long time, and I Commited to hwoarang... I also found out the easiest way for myself to use JFSR. By using Thumb for forward and middle finger for DF for P2. just make sure you tap them slighty not all the way.


^--this is the same way i have my hand positioned on the arcade stick.

Well slightly different but thumb is on the 2nd row 1st button, 1st digit is on the 1st row 1st button, 2nd digit (middle finger) on the 1st row, 2nd button and 3rd digit on the 1st row 3rd button.
I have my hand tilted and thumb and 1st 3 finger's on (not literally, rather hovering above, like one would with a guitar, in the "ready" position for the button press) all buttons at all times

It took me a long time to get use to, but i do believe it's worth it.
Signature Parsnip, ketchup..!?... Hop in the van!!?! *shrugs shoulders*
Razer Athane
Berserker
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 403
From: Australia
#17 “Quote” Edit Post
@LordSilver; Check your PM box. And thank you ^^

@Finger Conversation: My thumb stays on 3 most of the time, index is on 1 and 2. Never really paid attention to what's on 4, changes too much >>;
l0rds1lv3r
War Lord
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 742
From: Australia
#18 “Quote” Edit Post
@razer : replied

@ixayek : whats your rank for arcade...not console?
bloodashes
4th Dan
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 44
From: USA Tennessee
PSN: Roachthedon
#19 “Quote” Edit Post
Is there a list anywhere that list max damage anywhere off each launcher I saw in the beginning of the 5 secs or more it stated a few juggles but from what I've read everything is spread out I work alot and don't have the time to read thru 80 plus pages would anyone help me out by listing the staples/max damage?Or If it's already up could you send me in the right direction?
Signature my old name is raven lord for all great players ive met at tounaments or played in casuals my info got lost so i'll be going by this name from now on
hit me up on psn:roachthedon or bloodashes_tn
Ixayek_usurper
Tekken Lord Black
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 986
From: Ireland
XBL: Ixayek_Usurper
#20 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by l0rds1lv3r
@ixayek : whats your rank for arcade...not console?

I've yet to find a "local" arcade LS, the nearest one is 1hr20mins away.

So i just play with some locals at each others houses and over xbl.
I do attend a monthly session with some great players tho, whenever i'm available.

@Blood ashes:
the staples are all on the first page of the "Hwoarang Juggles" thread.
Signature Parsnip, ketchup..!?... Hop in the van!!?! *shrugs shoulders*

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