TTT2 Dragunov

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sandilord
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#1 “Quote” Edit Post
***UNDER CONSTRUCTION, BEAR WITH ME***

Anytime I say "Possibly" or "Speculation", that means either there isn't enough information to say with good confidence. Anytime I say "Probably", that means there is enough information to make an educated guess. In either case do not take these as law.

New moves:
1+2 (Homing mid) (Has two follow-ups)
1+2,4 (NC m,h non-jailing) (Not hit confirmable)
1+2,1+2 (Unavoidable on hit) (Can still escape/reverse) (Can be canceled)

b+1 (Tracks to the right) (Evasive mid)
b+1,2 (NC m,m) (Not hit confirmable) (CH (b+1),2 KND/W!)

Extensions to Old Moves:
WS+1,2 (+frame option out of WS, similar to 6.0 style WS+1,3) (+3 on hit) (CH (WS+1),2 KND/W! to right)
b+4,2~d (Cancel/transition to FC)

f+3~d/f (New transition to CD) (All follow ups are valid, e.g. CD+1_2_1+2_3_4)
CD can also now be cancelled by tapping 'u' during the animation (Similar to Bryan's b+3~f)

Tag AttacksThrows:
1+3~5
2+5 (Not Dragunov specific)

Dragunov/Bryan f,f+1+2 tag throw
(More to be found)

Tag Launchers:
qcf+1 (Full launch)
qcf+2 (Full launch)
qcb+2 (Low hitting mids) (Most likely jab follow up)
WS+2 (Most likely jab follow up)

Tag Assault: (# of hits includes launch + bind)
Please note these are merely suggestions, you can use anything you want and/or will use different options in different situations. Also note that as the game matures, different options may become more ideal to the ones below.

2 hits - f+4,4,3 (Loft and Distance) (Requires delay)
3 hits - 3,1 (Loft and Distance)
4 hits - 3,1,2 (Distance)
5 hits - f+4,4,3 (Loft and Distance)

Hold 5 - 4,1 (Automatic TA filler) (Distance)

Known Customizations:

Frame Data for new moves: (Possible to still change)
b+1 (i17 | -8 | +3 | +3)
b+1,2 (i17 | -13 | +3? | KND)
1+2 (i17 | -12 | +1 | 1?)
1+2,4 (i17 | -9 | KND | KND)
WS+1,2 (i12 | ~-6 | +3 | KND)

Old moves: (Overall appear unchanged)
1,2,1 - 1,3,1 - 1,3,2 - 3,1,2 - f+1+2 - f+1+4 - f+2+3 - f+2+4 - b+2,1,3~1+2 - b+3+4 - d+1 - d+2 - d+3,4 - d+3+4 - d/f+3 - qcf+1 - qcf+2 - qcf+3 - d/b+2,1 and CH (d/b+2),1,2 - f+2,4 - f+4,4,3 - f,f+1+2 - f,f+2 - CH f,f+2, qcf+1+2 - f,f+2~1+2 and cancel - 3,1,2 - i/WR+2 - d/f+1+2 - d/f+4 - d/b+1+2 and cancel - 2,1 and 2,1,3_4 - b+4,3 - b+4,2,1 - d+4,4_1,3 - 3+4 (and all tech roll options) - FCD 1+2 (living dead) - WS+1,3 - WS+1+2 - WS+4 - u/f+3 - u/f+4 - u/b+2 - All tackle extensions - wall run

Old moves: (Probably/definitely changed)
d/f+2 (Hitbox fix, closer to DR range) (Can now consistently hit Lars' u/f+3)
WS+2 (No longer causes mid-air flip)
1,2 (Hitbox increase on the 2) (Less +frames on hit, ~+2 on hit now)
CH d/f+1,4 (Now KND/W! to back/right) (No longer leaves the opponent next to you for small combo)
qcb+2 (-15 on block now)
d+2 (Now appears to crush some mids on recovery Exp. 1, Exp. 2) (Slightly reduced range)

b+1 (Notation now u/f+1) (New guaranteed stun on CH)

WR+2, WR+3, and WR+4 can all be executed during tag in

Old moves: (Possibly changed)
b+1+2 (the range of b+1+2 might have been slightly reduced)
u/b+2 (looks like Dragunov might automatically make a bigger SS)

Known knowns:
Overall Dragunov's damage doesn't appear to be toned down much (if at all)
f+4,4,3 can fully land after a teammate's TA B! possibly extending some char's wallcarry
3,1,2 still requires a substantial deep dash to fully land on long combos
d+4,4 now requires a substantial deep dash to fully land on long combos

Known unknowns:
d/f+2 damage potential reduced, not sure if base damage decreased or the follow up options
d/f+2 might track SS to either side now
b+1 looks like it has a wonky ass hit box, may hit SSR and SWL, but not SSL?
Living Dead (FCD 1+2~1+2) appears to track better

Intro animations:
Intro pose #1
Intro pose #2

Victory animations: (Likely more to be found in the future)
Generic 4,4 win pose

Most likely a unique animation with Bryan and Dragunov, still to be found

Dragunov's laugh now audible in arcade

Benefits to using Dragunov in TTT2:
(Disclaimer: This was written when the netsu system in TTT2 was assumed to be similar to TTT, needs to be rewritten)
Currently the system for "enraging" an opponent through combos appears to be five hits, falling under the old netsu rules. After about five hits against an airborne opponent, their teammate can be tagged in for 10 seconds of rage. Assuming the same values as BR/TTT, their damage will be increased by ~30%. Ground based hits don't seem to follow this rule and instead seem to fall under a different set of rules, as such (Unlike TTT) there do seem to be exceptions in TTT2. From what I've seen, the exception to the rules are double hopkicks (e.g. Julia u/f+4,3) which seem to count as a single hit and mid-air bobble combos (possibly low parry too) that are scaled down naturally to 60% damage (possibly an indirect nerf to hopkicks). It's also possible generic hits don't count towards netsu hits, increasing their value in a match.

Benefit 1 - Dragunov's damage comes from the ground, not the air:
Dragunov is not an aerial character, a ton of his damage comes from ground based NCc strings. As such he might be able to delay activating an opponent's netsu by simply playing his standard play style. Combine with the fact that he probably still can do his forced KND 50/50s (though they're probably gone in TTT2!) which also may not count as hits towards an opponent's netsu might be very dirty.

Benefit 2 - Extending your teammate's range:
An interesting side effect to TA binds is that they cause the opponent to bounce higher in the air than normal, allowing for certain tag strings to be easier to perform or fully land. This makes characters like Jack a great "assist" character as his TA u+1+2 basically relaunches the opponent into the air for extending combo length/damage. Dragunov doesn't have anything as cool as Jack's u+1+2, but he does have f+4,4,3.

Right now the sweet spot for TA f+4,4,3 seems to be 5 hits (including launcher). 3 hits seems to cause the final 3 to whiff (as they bounce too high) and 4 hits is still hitting at the very top of the hit box. What this means is that a point character with normally sub-par wall carry can use Dragunov to effectively extend their carry range to one of the furthest in the game. Unlike BR, TTT2 f+4,4,3 after a TA seems to give the opponent a ton of loft, so much so that characters can iSW (air grab) the opponent post f+4,4,3. Don't be surprised if in the future you see combos that end with TA f+4,4,3, dash in, another wall carry option.

Example combo Lars/Drag:
Lars f+1+2, d/b+2,1, f,b+2,1~5, B!, f+4,4,3, iSW

Benefit 3 - Dragunov's damage nerf, more specifically his lack of a damage nerf:
Dragunov still hurts, a lot. His string damage remains intact and apart from his WS+2 no longer flipping the opponent, Dragunov appears to have no major damage nerfs. As such it might be beneficial to play Dragunov as your 2nd character as a mixture of Dragunov's base damage and partner netsu can make magic happen (Second example).

Shouts out to BP's thread on the TTT2 general forum and everyone else who contributed

Last edited: 5/8 by Tyler2k

---

Original post is as follows:

Since there aren't character specific threads of TTT2 yet, let's make one here for the time being.

http://www.sunlightyellow.com/tekkentag2/
Drag seems to have a new move 1+2,4. No idea what it is or does.

Last edited by tyler2k on May 10th, 2012 at 21:15

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Cosmic_Castaway
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#2 “Quote” Edit Post
According to Google Translate, the name of that move ( ハウンドショット ) translates to "Haundoshotto" in both German and English. I'd hoped we could found out a bit more as to the nature of the move via its name, but I guess not. Does anyone know what the definition of "Haundoshotto" is?
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sandilord
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#3 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Cosmic_Castaway
According to Google Translate, the name of that move ( ハウンドショット ) translates to "Haundoshotto" in both German and English. I'd hoped we could found out a bit more as to the nature of the move via its name, but I guess not. Does anyone know what the definition of "Haundoshotto" is?
Typed the name in google and translated the whole context from a couple of hits. I came up with things like hound, hellhound or bloodhound mostly. Guess it's just a nice movename which doesn't reveal a lot about the move itself.
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Cosmic_Castaway
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#4 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by sandilord
Typed the name in google and translated the whole context from a couple of hits. I came up with things like hound, hellhound or bloodhound mostly. Guess it's just a nice movename which doesn't reveal a lot about the move itself.

Well damn. At least movenames like qcf+1's "Cocked Hammer" or u/f+2's "Falcon Dive" hint at the nature of the move.
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tyler2k
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#5 “Quote” Edit Post
Due to Dragunov's similarity in design to Bryan and Raven, I'm inclined to believe that 1+2,4 is similar to Bryan's 1+2,2, an i14 m,m attack. Seeing as how we're playing Dragunov and Namco loves to throw in high ending strings, I'm also inclined to believe that the final 4 is high. Since Dragunov currently has no strings/attacks starting with a standing 1+2, it's possible that there's other extensions to the string, but hopefully there aren't (which will boost the possible strength of the string).

(Please note that Bryan's 1+2,2 can not be hit confirmed)

Best case scenario:
1+2,4 is i14 m,h W!/KND that can be hit confirmed, giving Dragunov a true i14 punisher.

Mid case scenario:
1+2,4 is i14 m,h W!/KND that can't be hit confirmed
or
1+2,4 is i14 m,h non-W!/KND that's probably +6-+8 on hit

Worst case scenario:
1+2,4 is i15-i17 m,h non-W!/KND and can't be hit confirmed.
or
1+2,4 is i15-i17 m,h non-W!/KND that ends in a stupid d/f+3 attach throw

Worst, worst case:
1+2,4 is i15-i17 m,m non-W!/KND that is for some reason launch punishable on block

Of course this is pure speculation and not a guaranteed of the true nature of 1+2,4
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Cosmic_Castaway
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#6 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by tyler2k
Best case scenario:
1+2,4 is i14 m,h W!/KND that can be hit confirmed, giving Dragunov a true i14 punisher.

Mmmmmmm, I like the sound of that.
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BlackPriest
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#7 “Quote” Edit Post
I like the idea of a HC'able i14 NC a lot, but that's prolly too much to ask for.

An i12 punisher that splats would be awesome too (even if the move is death on block) for blocked FUFT wake up 4 kicks post wall combo or to punish small whiffs for big damage, but maybe I'm just spoiled from Paul here, hahaha.
tyler2k
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#8 “Quote” Edit Post
I agree, I highly doubt if 1+2,4 is a NC i14 that it will be hit confirmable. Regarding 1+2 being i12, off the top of my head the only character with a i12 1+2 would be Jin and his W!/KNDs on natural hit. So if it was i12, I assume they'd take that route and probably make the possibly W!/KND 4 to be -12 on block. But I'm leaning more towards 1+2,4 being similar to Bryan's 1+2,2, even if it doesn't W!/KND (on NH) I'll be happy (assuming it has the range to punish moves like Steve's DCK+2)
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Cosmic_Castaway
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#9 “Quote” Edit Post


A Drag/Lars video.
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#10 “Quote” Edit Post
Yeah, I figured that first report on TTT2 changes was complete bullshit, here's my latest post from the QnA thread since this one is being revived:

First footage of Dragunov
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hcRwvfO49M&#t=1580s

Nothing special, looks like his damage hasn't been toned down at all, as seen during the last round. Looks like he can TA 3,1,2 which might be good for characters who don't have a low hitting carry for combo filler.

New notes:
general.

tag wr3 now possible again. drag run in wr2 is useless apprently. lol

...

drag

new move 1+2, 4 mid high? homing~high knd on 2nd hit


So I'm not sure if the first information was good at all. Interesting that it's now noted as "homing" and not tracking. Which is bad because...
BRYAN nerfed like hell

...
1+2 is 16F +


Which hurts Dragunov's chances of his 1+2 being i14. The good news is that Dragunov can iWR+2 tag in, but I'm not sure what it means by useless, my guess is that it possibly has no range. Don't be necessarily discouraged because there's still the chance that Namco buffed iWR+4 or best case scenario he can tag into WR+3, but I doubt that's very likely.

Last edited by tyler2k on May 17th, 2011 at 02:57

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#11 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Cosmic_Castaway
A Drag/Lars video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25wP...tailpage#t=177s

Well that certainly wasn't a kick finisher, could this mean 1+2 has extensions other than 4? (The string on block was m,m. Speculation 1+2,2 m,m, 1+2,4 m,h?) Also notice how he sways when he does it, high crush or highly evasive hopefully?
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Cosmic_Castaway
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#12 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by tyler2k
Yeah, I figured that first report on TTT2 changes was complete bullshit, here's my latest post from the QnA thread since this one is being revived:

I'm glad it was too. 1,2,1 is here to stay. Thank goodness.


That link's broken, dude.

Nothing special, looks like his damage hasn't been toned down at all, as seen during the last round. Looks like he can TA 3,1,2 which might be good for characters who don't have a low hitting carry for combo filler.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Maybe 5~3,1~5~(move x here) will be possible?
Which hurts Dragunov's chances of his 1+2 being i14. The good news is that Dragunov can iWR+2 tag in, but I'm not sure what it means by useless, my guess is that it possibly has no range. Don't be necessarily discouraged because there's still the chance that Namco buffed iWR+4 or best case scenario he can tag into WR+3, but I doubt that's very likely.

I'm not really that worried about Drag getting an i14 punisher, because he already has a lot of tools. And yeah, 5~iWR2 apparently has a very short range. But if you're at the wall, I'm guessing that's not gonna be an issue. iWR4 and iWR3 mixup would still be nice though.

Also, on that video I posted, idk how many frames it takes to high crush with d+2 in BR, but at :48-:49ish, d+2 completely evades Baek's 4 (i11), even when Drag is at -2 from d/f+1 on block (making Baek's 4 come out at i9). Is this something that wouldn't happen in BR?

EDIT:
Originally posted by tyler2k
Well that certainly wasn't a kick finisher, could this mean 1+2 has extensions other than 4? (The string on block was m,m. Speculation 1+2,2 m,m, 1+2,4 m,h?) Also notice how he sways when he does it, high crush or highly evasive hopefully?

I'm thinking it does have extensions other than 4, yes. The sway animation looks similar to what a rough version of Bryan's 1+2 would look like. So I am guessing that it's going to be a high crush. And I don't know if that player was pressing buttons, but it looks -10 at least.
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#13 “Quote” Edit Post
AFAIK d+2 is an instant high crush and if it isn't, it's ridiculously close, I'm talking 2 frames at worst. I can't think of a time where I ever got jabbed/hit high out of it. Some notable lows (for other chars) that don't instant high crush: Leo d/b+4,1, Raven qcf+2, they're both vulnerable for a few frames during execution and can be interrupted high.

I was actually thinking about the latest clip, what if that wasn't 1+2,2 (which right now is pure, educated speculation)? What if that was just 1+2? Doesn't that blow your mind?
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Cosmic_Castaway
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#14 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by tyler2k
AFAIK d+2 is an instant high crush and if it isn't, it's ridiculously close, I'm talking 2 frames at worst. I can't think of a time where I ever got jabbed/hit high out of it. Some notable lows (for other chars) that don't instant high crush: Leo d/b+4,1, Raven qcf+2, they're both vulnerable for a few frames during execution and can be interrupted high.

Alrighty. Well there goes my theory that d/f+1 has +frames, or that d+2 is faster.
I was actually thinking about the latest clip, what if that wasn't 1+2,2 (which right now is pure, educated speculation)? What if that was just 1+2? Doesn't that blow your mind?

Yep, that did come to mind, actually. In which case, that would be hella sick. Oh, the possibilities.
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#15 “Quote” Edit Post
Speculation
Upon crude testing, Dragunov 1+2 is roughly i16. I don't see any homing streaks, so I'm correlating it to Bryan/Jack 1+2 style tracking. As I said earlier, I'm leaning towards what we saw being 1+2 without any extension, meaning 1+2 hits twice, similar to Sergei's (SS+2,)1+2. Sort of like Jack 1+2, except not safe. Because it's not safe, I'm also leaning towards it possibly being a hit confirmable wall splat on the 4 extension. Either way the main question right now is "how negative 1+2 is?"

I know it's a fairly substantial leap, but seeing the latest known changes to the game and Namco's overall MO, I'm going to post it with a good amount of confidence.

Note: There's a new ldmaxi loc.test video with Dragunov in it, but it's mostly Dragunov using 3,1 as combo filler for his team mate. Nothing notable from what I saw.
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sandilord
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#16 “Quote” Edit Post
http://www.youtube.com/user/TekkenC...u/0/dNiGqo6Zwww
16:13 new winpose, other than that nothing special. People who chose Drag up until now don't really know what to do with him...
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#17 “Quote” Edit Post
I noticed the 4,4 win pose, was weird ha ha. Some characters have moves for poses (e.g. Lars b+1+2, FJ U+4) and other characters have standard poses (e.g. AK thumbs down). I'm not sure of the significance, but it certainly is strange.

The really notable thing from that video is being able to use f+4,4,3 during a TA, giving some characters possibly nasty range. The clip in question can be viewed here.

I made a gif of 1+2 (possibly 1+2,2, all the people playing Drag don't seem the most experience, though there is a high ranked TTT2 Drag in Korea) here. Unfortunately the size had to be chopped down to fit the 2MB limit, but you can explode it if you want to see it well. I do have the full 720p gif on my hard drive, but really no where to upload it.

To see how low he gets, check this out here. Crazy low.

PS: I'm going to eventually update your original first post sandi, just a heads up.
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Cosmic_Castaway
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#18 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by tyler2k
I noticed the 4,4 win pose, was weird ha ha. Some characters have moves for poses (e.g. Lars b+1+2, FJ U+4) and other characters have standard poses (e.g. AK thumbs down). I'm not sure of the significance, but it certainly is strange.

Strange indeed. They really could have chosen a better move for his winpose. Maybe like qcb+2 or something? qcf+1? 4,4 is really lame.
The really notable thing from that video is being able to use f+4,4,3 during a TA, giving some characters possibly nasty range. The clip in question can be viewed here.

Insaaaaannnnne. That will definitely high W!-splat characters at the right range, allowing for some juicy tag wall-combos.
To see how low he gets, check this out here. Crazy low.

Definitely thinking we've got a new high crush move on our hands. Heck, at the nadir of that move, I wouldn't be surprised if it crushed some higher animated mids.
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#19 “Quote” Edit Post
Holy shit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExYX...filepage#t=393s

Major notables: (These are in chronological order, read them all first)
WS+1,2 (no idea what this does)
1+2 does have extensions, a lot of them, including roll, does this mean 1+2>tackle possible?
1,2 hit box buff
1+2,4 looks to be unconfirmable, definitely launchable on whiff, no word if jails (doubt it)
u/f+3+4 speed possibly buffed (saw it later in the video as well, maybe not)
WS+2 no longer does special flip
1+2 is possibly i19 (FFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU)
WS+1,2 (possibly huge +frames on hit, forced 50/50?)
Standing tackle does not high crush at all (I assume this isn't new)
Netsu/partner rage 3+4 (DAMAGGEEEEEEE)
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#20 “Quote” Edit Post
Two more videos for now:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN2dTe_syQk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcVWzOWthrA

The 2nd one is more notable than the 1st:
1+2,2 looks NC
CH (1+2),2 looks like it launches, hold forward to escape (possibly NH, can't be 100% sure)
Looks like 1+2 does not track to both sides, wtf?

Last edited by tyler2k on May 18th, 2011 at 08:55

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