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NYG 5
Destroyer
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 388
#21 “Quote” Edit Post
what do you guys use to counter bums who spam alisa and bruce attacks? side step? all of kazuyas low attacks take to long to fire.
Signature hey d-
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MCP
MCP=(0_o)
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9619
From: USA California
#22 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Sumpfgeist
Im using a Stick.

You can use the sugarfoot practice method?.

Crouch dash into back dash cancel, immediately into
crouch dash twice into two back dash cancels
and then three, four and so on.

If you mess up, start over at one.


You can mess around with variations:
Dash crouch dash, back dash cancel into dash crouch dash~crouch dash, into two back dash cancels, and so on.

End the wave dash in ewgf or end a back dash series in Dash ewgf.


The physical form can vary. When I use a stick on 1p for wave dash it might be like this:
1. Dash the stick f~f with either the first or second joint of your index finger. Personally I find comfort in the second joint, but it can slip to the first joint which is slightly slower. If I could use the third joint, that is the one closest to the end of the finger, consistently I would use that. The stick ends up slipping between the third and second joints, maybe that's not so bad.
2. Neutral and then d~d/f, just bend the index finger and push down with it, then press forward at the same time with your second, or first, index finger joint.

3. I am pretty sure the reason 2p feels 'easier', 'more natural', or otherwise 'faster' is because the thumb is pressing forward while the index finger is pressing down, allowing both to use the end of the fingers, which is a longer distance from the wrist, causing less required movement of the wrist in order to acheive the movement. On one player, I move the stick with the second joint on my index finger, which is closer to the wrist, forcing me to move the wrist more in order to achieve the same amount of stick movement.

Don't know if I explained it well, but it makes 100% sense to me and eventually I can figure out the right combination of words to explain everything.
MCP
MCP=(0_o)
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9619
From: USA California
#23 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by ninjakamui
with "getting up" i mean the combo that start from grounded position.

Okay, take a look at the stickies, read the titles, and you'll notice a COMBO thread, where in the very first post contains your answer to 'getup 3' combos.

Next time read first, PLEASE.
Sumpfgeist
Dragon Lord
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 859
From: Germany
#24 “Quote” Edit Post
Thank you so much MCP im going to try it out
ryokim
6th Dan
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78
#25 “Quote” Edit Post
i want to ask about the match up against bob..what kaz should do in this match..??
GanymeDes
Expert
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 147
From: Finland
PSN: GanymeDes-
#26 “Quote” Edit Post
How do I iWR3?
Cosmic_Castaway
Dark Knight
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1521
From: USA Delaware
PSN: Heavenstrider
#27 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by ryokim
i want to ask about the match up against bob..what kaz should do in this match..??


From what I can tell (just by reading the EWGF punishment thread), Bob's got a lot of moves that leave him at -frames on block. I'd just keep my cool and punish accordingly. Once the opponent gives you a window for an EWGF, take it, and from there, stay on the offensive. If you can get them to a wall, either try and splat them with a b+1,2 or an EWGF. If you can an EWGF, go for this combo:

EWGF, EWGF B! EWGF, 1+2: 79 damage

Bob's a very offensive character, but Kazuya's status as the best punisher in the game gives him lots of tools to turn this match-up in his favor.

Originally posted by GanymeDes
How do I iWR3?


Instant While Running 3:
f,f,f+3

Easiest way to do it is to buffer the first "f" in the recovery frames of another move.
Signature Some days, some nights; some live, some die in the way of the samurai. Some fight, some bleed; sun up to sun down; the sons of a battle-cry.
GanymeDes
Expert
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 147
From: Finland
PSN: GanymeDes-
#28 “Quote” Edit Post
Thanks for the reply, but I just can't seem to be able to pull it off without taking at least one running step / having some space. Is it really possible to do it just from standing? Any tips? Any videos where I can see this?

Oh, and how do I do wd WR3?

EDIT: Ok, so I managed to pull it of a couple of times in practise, but it was totally random. Do I need to input the move like really fast? Does it matter if I hold down the f at the end?

Last edited by GanymeDes on Jun 18th, 2010 at 20:00

Cosmic_Castaway
Dark Knight
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1521
From: USA Delaware
PSN: Heavenstrider
#29 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by GanymeDes
Thanks for the reply, but I just can't seem to be able to pull it off without taking at least one running step / having some space. Is it really possible to do it just from standing? Any tips? Any videos where I can see this?


I've got the same problem when I try to do iWR2 with my Dragunov. Really, the only way to do iWR at zero range is to be using an arcade stick. Here, however, is an example of a Dragunov doing iWR2 at point blank, using the buffering method I just described.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuTu1497GC4

It's at 1:17

Edit: and the notation for WD WR3 is f,n,d,d/f,f,f+3 (Maybe have a second "n" in there, I dunno.)
Signature Some days, some nights; some live, some die in the way of the samurai. Some fight, some bleed; sun up to sun down; the sons of a battle-cry.
Aken
Iron Fist God
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2274
From: Australia
#30 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by GanymeDes
How do I iWR3?


f,f,f+3 is iwr+3

Originally posted by GanymeDes
Thanks for the reply, but I just can't seem to be able to pull it off without taking at least one running step / having some space. Is it really possible to do it just from standing? Any tips? Any videos where I can see this?

Oh, and how do I do wd WR3?

EDIT: Ok, so I managed to pull it of a couple of times in practise, but it was totally random. Do I need to input the move like really fast? Does it matter if I hold down the f at the end?


to do iWR+3 at point blank is not really about the speed or buffering but the key is how u press the last forward and the 3

u must make sure u hit the last forward and 3 at the same time in order to do iWR+3 at point blank

WR+3 is run then press 3...
GanymeDes
Expert
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 147
From: Finland
PSN: GanymeDes-
#31 “Quote” Edit Post
u must make sure u hit the last forward and 3 at the same time in order to do iWR+3 at point blank


Thanks Aken, that really helped!

WR+3 is run then press 3...


I think you missed the "wd" part in my post?
Aken
Iron Fist God
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2274
From: Australia
#32 “Quote” Edit Post
^

opps sorry was replying on mobile phone didn't read everything clearly

wd wr+3 from how I feel but it might not be the right notation tho but just try it out ur self first

f,n,d,d/f,f,n,f,f+3

basically 1cd then n,f,f+3 again last forward at the same time as 3
vittujee
Deity
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 650
#33 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Cosmic_Castaway If you can get them to a wall, either try and splat them with a b+1,2 or an EWGF. If you can an EWGF, go for this combo:

EWGF, EWGF B! EWGF, 1+2: 79 damage
what the shit?


also funny thing, you wont get iwr3 if you hit the last f+3 on the same frame. technically you need to do f,n,f,n,f~f+3 ;o

though, this isnt really an issue for normal mortals. (it also applies to ff+3)

if you're not in a hurry to do the wr3 with kaz, you can cheat using mist step. hit f, wait just a splitsecond and hit ff+3. kinda like you'd do wd wr3.

cheers
Cosmic_Castaway
Dark Knight
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1521
From: USA Delaware
PSN: Heavenstrider
#34 “Quote” Edit Post
^
Ah fuck, thanks for catching that. I forgot to include the B! move: u/f+3

Full combo: EWGF, EWGF, u/f+3 (or f,f+3, though u/f+3 is a more consistent option) B! EWGF, 1+2 = 79 damage

Don't know what the hell happened there, dude. My mind must've went faster than my fingers.
Signature Some days, some nights; some live, some die in the way of the samurai. Some fight, some bleed; sun up to sun down; the sons of a battle-cry.
vittujee
Deity
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 650
#35 “Quote” Edit Post
Actually, the combo was just part of it.

im really no expert kazuya player.
But You're recommending use of 2 high attacks for wallsplatting, where as you have a really powerful arsenal of attacks that you can use to be more unpredictable aswell as safe.

for example, ws3, uf3, ff3 (you dont get fullcombo)
ff3 lets you keep pressure on, but with ws3 and uf3 which are -9 on block (i think), you'll have to be more careful to not to give them space. all 3 roughly of same speed, each with great attributes. (homing, highcrush and 0 on block with opponent recovers crouching, unable to sidestep "downwards")

you also have db4 and hs1. hs1 will splat from a bit of distance and sometimes weirdly from angles, like if enemy is sidestepping. db4 gives good damage, only -11 on block and gives +2 on hit (i think). if enemy tries to attack straight after that, you can go for b1<2 or a bit more risky and not really any more rewarding b4.

and if enemy tends to stay very passive, you can do short unblockable which leads to walljuice. and potentially makes enemy more hasty next time at the wall, which you can use for walloki into resplat with uf3 or whiffbaiting into another wallcombo. df2 is also there but risky. at -12 on block, pretty much every character has punisher to push you away and give them space.
also short unblockable should work great if you have used db4 or df1,2 of f+4 on block and have enemy in mindset of blocking.

then theres ff1+2, a throw for wallsplatting. this works also great when enemy does on full defense. even if it doesnt wallsplat, it gives you great mixup opportunity if they tech, and if they dont, you get to stomp/uf3 to resplart.

also f2 with punchparry, as you can use it in middle of certain strings if you're on defensive and know when to use it. its also extremely powerful. you can backdash into b31 for resplat into uf3 df32<1.

if enemy ducks df1 series, you can wallsplat using df+1,f+2. and you can use df1,2 to get +2 on block. (i think. its +1 at least)

oh oh and you can sidewallsplat with hs1 and ws3. this you can use to do short combo in middle of map or turn it into wallcarry if close enough to the next wall.

and f+4 and fc df3+4 to make things confusing. fc df3+4 can even mid crush some mids and you get walloki from it with crouch cancel. same applies to ch f+4. also f+4 on hit is +6, and on block +3. quite potent times for ch baiting or if enemy doesnt do anything, throwing_short unblockable_db4.

I'd only recommend using b+1,2 as a punisher, where its an excellent one. i never used ewgf at in t6br wallgame, outside whiff punishing at wall. then again, i wouldnt even really call that using ewgf to wallsplat, since its just whiff punishing that leads to walldamage. maybe it can work as a setup for some midsplatting. or if enemy starts jabbing and you manage to highcrush it with ewgf.


then again, im only mediocore kazuya player at best, theres probably a lot more to effective kazuya wallgame. Might even be great if some of the best kaz players here would go into explaining their walltactics and we produce a some guide for effective t6br kaz wallgame.

now that we have that out of the way, lets go back to the combo

ewgf ewgf uf3 ewgf 1+2?

how about an easier one

ewgf !W f+2 u/f+3 !B d/f+3,2<1 = 84 dmg. even if you mess up the timing on df32<1 its still 80 dmg. it also works off an wgf if theres no delay at least medium size opponents.


for !B uf3 is definitely more consitent than ff3. also, ff3 doesnt really give you any benefits other than reaching a little bit lower than uf3, yet it doesnt seem like an issue. uf3 is also faster. and a lot easier to execute.

cheers

ps.
dont take this in the wrong way. Its great that you are helping others. But I think you were giving a bad advice regarding the wallgame.

wallgame has a lot more depth and only recommending 2 HIGH wallsplat moves as sort of "this is wallgame" can potentially do more harm than help.

Last edited by vittujee on Jun 20th, 2010 at 18:43

Cosmic_Castaway
Dark Knight
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1521
From: USA Delaware
PSN: Heavenstrider
#36 “Quote” Edit Post
Nah dude, I get what you're saying, and you have made good points (All of which I do know, but kudos for pointing them out). There are a couple reasons I recommend this combo though:

1) EWGF is a high crush, and learning to set up with it, as you pointed out, is important to Kazuya. I do use EWGF primarily for punishing, by the way.
2) If the EWGF is blocked, the pushback puts you at +5 frames. Now, you're at the wall, and you've got 5 frames on your side. With that in mind, that's the perfect time to throw out any of those great moves you've recommended, especially f,f+1+2 and d/f+1,f+2.
3) Ending the combo with 1+2 gives pushback, and therefore leaves you at a better position for some oki pickup with a HS1 resplat, which does more damage than a u/f+3 wallsplat, if I remember correctly.
4) This combo is good practice for EWGF execution.

As a note, the second EWGF in there is just filler. When I came up with the combo, I didn't know what else to throw out other than a second EWGF. It seems like a fairly easy combo to me, because it's:
a) repetitive
b) simple

Only thing slightly difficult about it is the timing of EWGF, 1+2. Here, this third EWGF is (as far as I know) the most powerful single strike that will allow for the 1+2 ender. Hell, this won't even be that hard on Bob, who's a larger than average character.

I really just think you've misinterpreted my intentions with suggesting the combo. I'm not saying, "This is wallgame" per se. It's a starting place, that's really it.

P.S. You can get a long unblockable post mid-splat, if your opponent's get-up happy. Leads to tons of damage. Go into practice and try out Stand to Guard at the wall. It actually comes out as part of the combo.

To end though, on the wallgame post.
Signature Some days, some nights; some live, some die in the way of the samurai. Some fight, some bleed; sun up to sun down; the sons of a battle-cry.
Aken
Iron Fist God
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2274
From: Australia
#37 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by vittujee
what the shit?


also funny thing, you wont get iwr3 if you hit the last f+3 on the same frame. technically you need to do f,n,f,n,f~f+3 ;o

though, this isnt really an issue for normal mortals. (it also applies to ff+3)

if you're not in a hurry to do the wr3 with kaz, you can cheat using mist step. hit f, wait just a splitsecond and hit ff+3. kinda like you'd do wd wr3.

cheers


f,n,f,n,f,~f+3?

so 4 forward is needed?

I don't get what u r trying to say ...

iwr+3 is just f,f,f+3 u can buffer it or use mist step if u want to up to u f,n,f,f+3 or f (buffer) f,f+3
but if at point blank u need to press the last forward and 3 at the same time that's all Im saying and there is no way 4 f is require to iwr+3...
Aken
Iron Fist God
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2274
From: Australia
#38 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Cosmic_Castaway
1) EWGF is a high crush, and learning to set up with it, as you pointed out, is important to Kazuya. I do use EWGF primarily for punishing, by the way.


u got it wrong ewgf does not have any high crush only the cd motion does

so basically if u r doing 13f ewgf
f = 1f (no high crush)
n = 1f ( entering mist step no high crush)
d/f+2 = 11f (ewgf come out with no high crush)

reason u see ewgf have slight high crush is becoz u do it slower 14f and above so it let kaz enter cd motion which have high crush

so

f = 1f
n = 1f
d = 1f ( high crush 1 frame)
d/f+2 = 11f

as u can see 1f of high crush factor invole in 14f ewgf so if u r aiming to use high crush launcher I recommend u to just use slow wgf
moN nihciM
Iron Fist God
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1076
#39 “Quote” Edit Post
Aken's right. EWGF doesn't high crush.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4j8QsNOLOA

Look at 0:21. You can see Dongpal WD under MDJ's jabs.
Aken
Iron Fist God
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2274
From: Australia
#40 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by moN nihciM
Aken's right. EWGF doesn't high crush.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4j8QsNOLOA

Look at 0:21. You can see Dongpal WD under MDJ's jabs.


actualy this have been tested with Steve b+1 by noodle with Program stick that ewgf doesnn't have any high crush

13f ewgf vs Steve 13f b+1 = both get hit but Kaz get a launch which make sence

btw check ur pm

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