Kazuya Oki Index [Strict WIP]

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Gandido
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#1 “Quote” Edit Post
For now, this is a placeholder until I get a format pasted over from the Devil Jin forum, and I figure out what the best possible enders are to ask for oki as well as the typical Kaz situations.

Right now, I need you guys to list all the possible scenarios which you would like tested and listed. Be VERY specific, as in how many hits in the juggle, if using a post b! ender, I need to know how many hits before and after the bounce because that changes things (if not using a spike ender. Hits that end normally get pushed back furthermore depending on how many hits so far).

I'll leave this up to you guys for now.

Things we want to know:

Post CD41 on standing
f+4 spike ender (same regardless of position I think)
d/f+1,2 spike ender (need to test)

Keep adding to this list and you might see a thread.
Signature "Chance favors the prepared mind." - Louis Pasteur

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DevilKnight
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#2 “Quote” Edit Post
d/f+1,2 spike ender allows a few decent catches but ultimately nothing for quickstand, which kinda kills the mixup unless you are happy to go mid/low with that.

CD+4,1 in open grants several of the same things in DR albeit it in general a couple of things are tighter to pull of in T6 oki. The f+1+2 backroll catch will still work, as will CD into f,f+3, which is probably the better choice these days. CD,n+4 will float quickstands like before, although he should be able to dash into b+2 now.

CD+4,1 juggle enders do not grant good oki because there are no backroll catches. You can use WR+3 to set up a mix-up on backrollers, but that would be be expecting them not to backroll and then step the right way.

CD+4,1 juggle enders do however have a backroll catch from a short juggle like f,f+3 b+2,4 d/b+2 B! CD+4,1 or other 6 hit juggle where running into d/f+4,4 will work. Other players may be able to confirm further backroll catches from that.

Many EWGF enders give that middle field oki like they did in DR with the fillers and distance not changing that much as you run in ASAP; unless it's the 8th hit from something ridiculous like EWGF EWGF (dash) b+2,4 d/b+2 B! (dash) 3,1 DEWGF.

With your testing you will likely find some form of tight running backroll catch for b+1,2 like with Devil Jin.

u/f+3 does not give the middle field oki like in DR. I could not get any backroll catch to work.

I couldn't get dash up to d/f+4,4 or CD,n+4 to work on 1+2 knockdown like DR.

I haven't noticed any real oki advantage from WS+3 than the usual bare stuff, if anything. If his whole WS+3 was stripped out in favour of a clone of Jin's WS+3 then that would have been pretty helpful for Kaz.

Kazuya oki situations are more restricted and few than DR since the loss of d/f+3 on grounded, d/b+3 trip and from b+1 on CH, short unblockables and TGF,3 enders not being shit etc.

Main oki situatons for T6 Kazuya are 1,1,2 - open ground CD+4,1 - CH f+4 - EWGF enders - f+4 spike enders - post wall combo situations and CH f+3.
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moN nihciM
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#3 “Quote” Edit Post
DK - Lately, my opponents backroll after they get hit by CD+4,1 and I was wondering if it's easy to pull off f+1+2 as a backroll catch? Do I have to dash (a little or deep dash?) or run then execute the move as my opponent is about to get up from backrolling? Is there a strict timing?

Are there other options for backroll catch? I like the idea of CD into ff+3 since it's more safe but I was thinking there should be other options as well. What about dash CD into d/f+1,2 or d/f+1,4 or ff+2?

I want to make my opponent guess 50/50 oki instead of letting them backroll. Usually, I'd do CD+4,1 and they just lie down there and give me a free stomp but they figured out that backroll will avoid any oki options... WRONG! I wanna teach them a lesson and deal with the 50/50 mix-ups because Kazuya could use the most out of it.
Aken
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Joined: Feb 2005
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From: Australia
#4 “Quote” Edit Post
I like to know what kind of option do we have after cd+4,4
so far I've done running then dewgf on back roller (BT launch)
but haven't test this on ps-3 yet tho

was hoping maybe Kaz can get something like running then 1,2,4,3 on BT it would hurt heaps if they happen to back roll close enough to the wall coz we ll get free 1+2 then B!
moN nihciM
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#5 “Quote” Edit Post
CD+4,1, dash, cd, n, 3 is probably the easiest backroll catch.
DevilKnight
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#6 “Quote” Edit Post
Mostly same backroll catches that worked in DR. You could do f+1+2 on backrolls in DR, right?

As you recover, you just f,F....... 1+2. Don't let go of the second f, it just does a short run-up and for why-ever it does, the run and 1+2 goes into a f+1+2. The tip on how far to run shouldn't be that useful since you can work it for yourself with a few tries, but you want to do the short run to roughly where their ankles were before you pull the trigger. I haven't accessed the game for a bit, so it's vague. The timing is rather easy once you realise where to get it, use hit analysis to learn it.

Another more simple one is a run-up hellsweep that gets them at the back end of their roll to put them back in the same situation, guaranteed. Easier to grasp for players than f+1+2 but the same ease of application once you understand how to use them both. The Hellsweep can be useful to double up against te rest of their options as you usually have time to see them tech and stay on track or switch to a mid or whatever. Again, use hit analysis to make sure you're doing it right.

A dash CD into dash d/f+1,4 will also work to launch backrollers quite easily, as will dash CD to f,f+2 or f,f+3. Take your pick of what suits you best. They have the same application as they did in DR, only the oki system has been sped up a bit in T6 so generally they can be a little more strict or specific.
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>phunnykidd<
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#7 “Quote” Edit Post
after CD4,1 you can just press b2,4 to catch backroll
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moN nihciM
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#8 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by >phunnykidd<
after CD4,1 you can just press b2,4 to catch backroll
No dash required? I find this hard to believe but I'll test it out later. Otherwise, I'd be doing this.
>phunnykidd<
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#9 “Quote” Edit Post
no dash needed

but i can only get dewgf to connect afterwards, you might able to bind, but i cannot.
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<sAInt_D3m0n>
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#10 “Quote” Edit Post
just wanna throw in a little something, after a successful cd4,1 and if your opponent does KD d+3, or d+4 (that shitty cheap low they use to kill you if you have a small life point left), do dash in b+2,4, it will make them float. , oh and you can do db+2 to bind them after your b+2,4.

anyway, after ending a juggle with u/f+3, i realize that sometimes, my opponent gets picked up by b+2,4..... so with a u/f+3 spike, can we pick them up with b+2,4 if they quickstand?
or were they just backrolling away?
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DevilKnight
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#11 “Quote” Edit Post
u/f+3 does not allow the recovery against quickstand, I tested this a while back; it's only gonna happen with f+4. Either they did stood late or backrolled or something.
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Gandido
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#12 “Quote” Edit Post
I haven't been playing enough Kaz to be able to make this thread properly yet. My apologies for sure.

Mark can you get on MSN?
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Gandido
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#13 “Quote” Edit Post
8th hit f+3 juggle ender allows unblockable tackle upon techroll either side. Backroll takes care of that though.
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Aken
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#14 “Quote” Edit Post
check 2:46

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8o1NR9wzrXI

Leedy does 1,1,2 then cd in to f+3 for back roll catch

I still don't know how to do cd in to f+3 ...

Originally posted by DevilKnight
A dash CD into dash d/f+1,4 will also work to launch backrollers quite easily, as will dash CD to f,f+2 or f,f+3. Take your pick of what suits you best. They have the same application as they did in DR, only the oki system has been sped up a bit in T6 so generally they can be a little more strict or specific.


about f,f+3 back roll catch after cd+4,1

I can manage to nail the f,f+3 but I can never get b+2,4 to connect after ward... is it even possible??

Last edited by Aken on Jan 9th, 2010 at 14:11

moN nihciM
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#15 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Aken
check 2:46

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8o1NR9wzrXI

Leedy does 1,1,2 then cd in to f+3 for back roll catch

I still don't know how to do cd in to f+3 ...



about f,f+3 back roll catch after cd+4,1

I can manage to nail the f,f+3 but I can never get b+2,4 to connect after ward... is it even possible??
No, not possible. I couldn't pull it off either. I just do a quick dash stomp after ff+3.

Are there any oki options after stomp?
Aken
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#16 “Quote” Edit Post
^

thx I think I ll stick with cd d/f+1,4 for back roll catch then

Originally posted by Aken
I like to know what kind of option do we have after cd+4,4
so far I've done running then dewgf on back roller (BT launch)
but haven't test this on ps-3 yet tho

was hoping maybe Kaz can get something like running then 1,2,4,3 on BT it would hurt heaps if they happen to back roll close enough to the wall coz we ll get free 1+2 then B!


no one with ps-3 willing to test cd+4,4 out??
Gandido
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#17 “Quote” Edit Post
I'm pretty sure he probably did a quick sidestep up and then hit f+3 but it was so quick that you couldn't see the input. Damn Leedy always figuring out shit.

I'm willing Aken. Just haven't had time really. Been playing DJ, Bob, Lars and Roger, with very little Kaz, but I'm getting there. =)
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DevilKnight
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#18 “Quote” Edit Post
Wow, Leedy's back! When did that happen?

You could also try doing CD to b,f+3 like old DR f+4 style. Dashing into b,f+3 would also work for backrolls from CD+4,1 although I didn't list it as the catch was too weak for it to be necessary.

Gandido, once you are ready to be looking into Kazuya's oki options and stuff, could you have a look to see what advantages or special set-ups you can find to (wall) b+3,1 d/f+3 OTG? as I keep seeing foreign players use this and damage-wise it doesn't stack up to the usual stuff.

Also see if you can find anything solid on backrolls from EWGF EWGF d/f+3 d/f+1,2 B! CD+4,1
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Funky_button
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#19 “Quote” Edit Post
i cancel f+3 out from CD or WD like this:

f,n,d,d/f,n,~f~f+3

but the timing is diffrent. There is a slight difference between instant WR+3 and CD f+3

in tekken 5dr I've just done with f+4, not with b~f+4.

hope it helps

edit: i test it a little bit.
DK you have right you can only cancel it with the b input because after the KND from 1,1,2 is kaz too far away and the engine recognizes it as a running input. on closer range works that easily

Last edited by Funky_button on Jan 19th, 2010 at 20:31

KomboKaze
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#20 “Quote” Edit Post
[Question]

If i'm close enough could I cd into d/b +2? and get another B!?

I've did it a few times..

Just wondering if it is TRULY possible after an BnB combo ended with a dewgf , then CD into d/b+2[if they are rolling back]

Also what do yall think about [while crouching,3+4] the move isnt used that much but

what oki can be used after a successful one?
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