T6 Raven Strategy/Playstyle Discussion

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Starwinderbeta
Team Glow™
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4409
From: USA California
#1 “Quote” Edit Post
A bit of speculation/comments/impressions on T6 Raven.

Even though T6 is still fairly new, from the looks of things, as of the present moment, Raven plays very similar to 5.0 and DR, with two major differences.

1. SDW okizeme isn't as large of a factor in Raven's gameplay as it used to be, due to new staple combos brought about by the [B!] system. It's a plus, in my opinion, because the 50/50 SDW oki mixups were horribly against Raven's favor in terms of risk/reward ratio.

2. He actually has a punisher. Two of them, as a matter of fact. Both are safe and have solid range, and one of them is a natural combo, 2-hit mid, mid combo. Somebody at Namco was paying attention. A definite plus.

While these two changes don't drastically change Raven's playstyle, they are definite welcome additions to his repertoire.

Moving on, some of his bread & butter is still intact, so most 5.0 and DR players won't take long to feel as comfortable with Raven as usual.

UT: 1+2 break throw, lots of damage.
1,2: Standard 10 frame pokes.
d/f+1: Same as DR/5.0
qcf: Diagonals can still be done from them, as well as ws moves, which is solid. These functions, combined with the standard qcf moves, makes this stance very formidable, as I'm sure most of you already know.

Those, in addition to f,f+4 and f+2,3, are most likely going to be a solid Raven player's foundation. A well-balanced diet of pokes, punishers, stances/maneuvers, throws, and lows. Learning how to utilize these moves to their fullest should be every Raven player's first priority. Afterwards, the trickier/flashier stuff comes into play (SDW and reversals).

SDW got beefed up, but I think it will play less of a role in Raven's game than in DR and 5.0. Sure, there are more ways to get into SDW, and even safer ways, but that doesn't mean SDW itself as a stance is very safe. I can see people going for the occasional SDW mixups with his new SDW mids to try and land a SDW d+3 (clean hit trip) for a combo, but outside of that and some combos, I think that's it.

Reversals are more or less just flash, glitter, fluff, whatever you want to call it. The old 1,2 to b,b+2 probably still works, as do the other ones. Not much to say about them.

All in all, the addition of f+2,3 and f,f+4 and his new combo potential makes T6 Raven the best iteration so far. His crazy juggle damage is still there, plus safe, solid punishers, and his solid B&B. Throw in a few off-the-wall moves and strat possibilities and you've got a very solid character. Still not top tier material, but closer than ever.

Comments?

EDIT: It seems d/b+2,1 isn't as good as it used to be, which also lessens the range of uses for d/b+4.

Last edited by Starwinderbeta on Feb 1st, 2008 at 12:02

Kiyosuki
2nd Dan
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 24
From: USA California
#2 “Quote” Edit Post
I'm in Japan visiting family at the moment and I've gotten the chance to try this out a bit. I mostly tried Bob and Zafina so far but I also tried Raven a bit cause he's just awesome. I gotta say the improvement over his T5 self and from what little of DR I played (I didn't get the chance too much) feels pretty big. The improvements as mentioned above are there yeah but I dunno...generally he just feels really tweaked for the better. The old f, f+3 is much much easier to hit an air-born opponent with it feels like. I didn't use him too much but I really want to, I've seen some other players do really nasty things with Raven.

He feels much more like a deadly and precise Ninja now than before.
lowkickvictory
Iron Fist God
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1076
From: Canada
PSN: leiben
#3 “Quote” Edit Post
d/b+2,1 has different properties now. on block, the second hit, which is slower now, is duckable/ss-able. doing just d/b+2 leaves you in SDW. it is therefore no longer abuseable.

SDW oki and wake-ups can still be there if you want, it's just not as necessary anymore. i personally still plan to use it from time to time.

i think i'm going to try to integrate u/b+1 stuff into my game. i heard you can transition into SDW from it, so that should be fun. tracking high-crush into SDW mixups? ok! also, the string's speed seems similar to d/b+2,1 so if your opponent is confused enough, you might be able to get them to try to duck into the second hit, which is still mid.

also heard that qcf+3+4 tracks both ways/better now (can someone confirm?). if that's the case, i'm gonna try to use that more too.
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Abigan2K
Iron Fist God
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 3158
From: Philippines
#4 “Quote” Edit Post
standard 1,2 jabs is/are a nerf to raven

now he has to worry bout mishima 1,1,2 trade-offs and what not
it also makes raven [or any character for that matter] jab out of certain strings

d/b+2,1 i had these ducked today eating WS launchers .. not really advisable for something to throw out randomly

havent tested QCF+1 thoroughly but its sad that you can only position change on hit [and that we're not sure of any guarantees after]
Starwinderbeta
Team Glow™
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4409
From: USA California
#5 “Quote” Edit Post
The only thing that still bothers me is that Raven still doesn't have a quick, safe low poke.

That, and the fact that d/b+4 doesn't trip on normal hit anymore, makes it even easier to not block low against Raven when he's not in SDW.

Oh well.
XXsuperdogXX
2nd Dan
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 25
From: Australia
#6 “Quote” Edit Post
What's with Raven's d/f+3+4... he clones himself and kicks their ass... 1 in the air and 1 on the ground
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lowkickvictory
Iron Fist God
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1076
From: Canada
PSN: leiben
#7 “Quote” Edit Post
so, what's his BT f+3 like now? is either the front- or back-recovery version safe on block?


and is anyone trying his qcf+2~b at all?
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Draakur
Iron Fist God
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1419
From: Australia
#8 “Quote” Edit Post
Not sure if this has been mentioned in the other threads somewhere, probably has... but would be a good idea to correct this in the first post; f+2,3 isn't safe, it's jab punishable, and so is f,f+4, but due to pushback it'll only get punished when walls are involved (this is on Int version though, not sure what else is happening out there).
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benn
Kyu
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5
#9 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by lowkickvictory
and is anyone trying his qcf+2~b at all?


the cancel is perfect. You go into backstance, d+4 is a quick and safe low kick from what i've experience. Or if you want to be cheap, 1+3 or 2+4 grab, there's no animation so its harder for the opponent to see which grab to get out. lol
fd3sk1mb0
4th Dan
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 39
From: USA California
#10 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by benn
the cancel is perfect. You go into backstance, d+4 is a quick and safe low kick from what i've experience. Or if you want to be cheap, 1+3 or 2+4 grab, there's no animation so its harder for the opponent to see which grab to get out. lol


seconded..the cancel is quicker than a teenager trying to get an abortion ..i used this yesterday to set up SDW d+3 b+4,4 B! SDW f+2,4,3+4....worked for me most of the time, but badly punished on block

anyone else suggest a juggle from SDW d+3? fF+3 would work also correct?
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lowkickvictory
Iron Fist God
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1076
From: Canada
PSN: leiben
#11 “Quote” Edit Post
that's good sounding news on the qcf2 cancel

in the latest joybox vids, ~ #2190, it looks like b2,2 is not as good anymore. in DR, he's around +0 frames on block, but now it looks like -5 or more... can anyone confirm?



after SDW d+3 i've seen ff+4~stuff connect. not sure about ff+3 might be too slow or too high.

Last edited by lowkickvictory on Jun 6th, 2008 at 22:35

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DEF
War Lord
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 765
From: New Zealand
#12 “Quote” Edit Post
my staple from BT d+3 is f,f+3 1 ssl+1 f,f+3 b/4,4 BTc 3~4 then whatever you want.

f,f+3 isnt too slow. that combo is all guaranteed but if opponent is off axis a bit then dont ssl left for the 2nd jab. just do 1 then dash the 2nd 1.
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armorgon
Sage
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 464
From: Philippines
#13 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by DEF
my staple from BT d+3 is f,f+3 1 ssl+1 f,f+3 b/4,4 BTc 3~4 then whatever you want.

f,f+3 isnt too slow. that combo is all guaranteed but if opponent is off axis a bit then dont ssl left for the 2nd jab. just do 1 then dash the 2nd 1.



launch f,f+3 1 ssl+1 f,f+3 b+4,4 --> im having inconsistency on connecting "b+4,4". Sometimes i tried doing a big SSL+1 coz i think this is the problem. Still it's not. I tried mashing b+4,4 immediately after ff+3 .. it doesn't work.. any secret behind this? Sorry but im a new raven player on T6 but i managed to get most of his juggles i found in his thread.
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DEF
War Lord
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 765
From: New Zealand
#14 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by armorgon
launch f,f+3 1 ssl+1 f,f+3 b+4,4 --> im having inconsistency on connecting "b+4,4". Sometimes i tried doing a big SSL+1 coz i think this is the problem. Still it's not. I tried mashing b+4,4 immediately after ff+3 .. it doesn't work.. any secret behind this? Sorry but im a new raven player on T6 but i managed to get most of his juggles i found in his thread.


theres no real secret to it except what i stated in my previous post. if you have DR or 5.0 then practise the combo on those. its exactly the same in those than in T6. theres some situations(more than most) when doing the BT d+3 into combo that the opponent will be off axis from the start of the juggle. if so then you dont need to ssl the 2nd jab, just f,f N 1 cos your opponent will be almost straight. the only reason why you should be whiffing b+4,4 is cos the opponent is off axis. thats the only reason but if you seem to be having more problems with the juggle than just pm me.
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armorgon
Sage
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 464
From: Philippines
#15 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by DEF
theres no real secret to it except what i stated in my previous post. if you have DR or 5.0 then practise the combo on those. its exactly the same in those than in T6. theres some situations(more than most) when doing the BT d+3 into combo that the opponent will be off axis from the start of the juggle. if so then you dont need to ssl the 2nd jab, just f,f N 1 cos your opponent will be almost straight. the only reason why you should be whiffing b+4,4 is cos the opponent is off axis. thats the only reason but if you seem to be having more problems with the juggle than just pm me.


alrighty man. anyway yesterday i was trying to improve my oki. i found out the SDW f+2, 3 (B!) is so damn useful. i made a post B! ff+3, 1, ff+3, f+2 3. havent found much juggle for this. Anything better?
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DEF
War Lord
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 765
From: New Zealand
#16 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by armorgon
alrighty man. anyway yesterday i was trying to improve my oki. i found out the SDW f+2, 3 (B!) is so damn useful. i made a post B! ff+3, 1, ff+3, f+2 3. havent found much juggle for this. Anything better?


nah havent found anything else for f+2,3 yet. i only use it at mid range for a good mid range poke.
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armorgon
Sage
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 464
From: Philippines
#17 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by DEF
nah havent found anything else for f+2,3 yet. i only use it at mid range for a good mid range poke.


what im takin bout it the SDW f+2,3. Not the f+2,3 from regular stance. This is good oki if your opponent moves while they are down. It causes them B!
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DEF
War Lord
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 765
From: New Zealand
#18 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by armorgon
what im takin bout it the SDW f+2,3. Not the f+2,3 from regular stance. This is good oki if your opponent moves while they are down. It causes them B!


shit sorry, i fully knew what you were talking about but my mind just went blank n i just thort f+2,3, lol.

yeah i only use this for oki. like after combo b+4,4 B! BT cancel 3~4. either that or BT1+2. BT f+2,3 is good with opponents sometimes cos they forget about the 3 and try a get up kick but the 3 crushes them n im pretty sure that b+4,4 is free after it

i was thinking is BT f+2,3 safe cos i havent been punished while using this move.

Last edited by DEF on Jun 25th, 2008 at 12:29

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armorgon
Sage
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Posts: 464
From: Philippines
#19 “Quote” Edit Post
raven threads are closely dead.
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Barry
Ninja Surfboard
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1709
From: Canada
#20 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by armorgon
raven threads are closely dead.


Obviously because not many people have access to a T6 machine.

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