T6 Yoshi Changes Thread, Pt. 1 [FAQ 1st post]
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JeetKuneLaw
6th Dan
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 67
From: USA Kentucky
#1 “Quote” Edit Post
YOSHIMITSU NEW TECHNIQUES

New Stance ( KinChou )

Kinchou - 1+2 [ press D to recover FC ]
- Doujigiri - 1,1 (m,m) [ press B to Sheathe Swords (No-Sword stance) ]
- Gantou - f+2 (h) [ press 3+4 to enter MED stance ]
- Tenshukazushi - 2,1+2 (m,m,m) [ delayable ]
- Shibakari - 3 (l) [ not written anythere, but could Yoshi enter DGF here? ]
- Ryusetsu - 4 (h) [ press 3+4 to enter MED ]
- Ashurazan - 1+2 (m,m,m) [ recovers BT, 3rd hit causes B! ]
- Mumyojujiken - b+1+2 (Unblock.)
- Kinchou Tonbo - u+1+2 [ DGF stance switch ]

---------------

New moves

* Aguri Kabutoneri (?) - 1,1 (h,m) [ 2nd hit causes BOUND! ]
* Seikendoubarai (?) - 2,1 (h,m) [ Press B to cancel (second hit) ]
* Gehousen (?) - f,n,d,d/f+1 (m) [ Press 1+2 to enter Kinchou Stance ]
* Tsukaatemi - d/f+1 (m)
* Tagekujuku - d/b+1,1 (m,m) [ First hit causes B! status ]
* Toutataashi - f+4 (m)
* Tagekujuku - d/f+2,2 (m,m) [ Natural Combo ]
* Aamagehousen - b+2,1 (m,m) [ Press 1+2 to enter KinChou ]
* Kuramaittou - u/f+2 (l) [ Press D to cancel ]
* Ganreki - f,F+3 (m)
* Muken - 2+3 [ Swordless Stance ]
* Nozuchibuma - d/b+4 (l)
* Niragi aratama - WS+2,1,2 (m,h,h)
* Niragi magatama - WS+2,1,3 (m,h,m)
* Kimonmatagi - WS+3,2 (h,m) [ Second hit causes B! status ]

* Kaishaku u/f+1 - (while opponent grounded) - the stabbing sword jump

------------------------------------

Old moves with new notation or properties:

- Evasive sidespin - b+3,3,3... or b+4,4,4... [ it seems like we can chose which side to spin! ]
- Sword Stab - b,b+1+4 (u)
- Sword Spin - b,b+1+4~1 (u)
- Ochimusha hunter - b,b+1+4~1+2 (u)
- Lunging Sweep - FC,d/f+4 (L) - [ JG only on CH ]
- Fubuki - f,f+4 (m) [ recovers BT ]

- Door Knocker - WS 1,1,1,1 (m,h,h,m) [ Pressing WS+1,1,b+3 or b+4 switches to Evasive sidespin! ]

- Wood Cutter - d/f+3,1 - [ Second hit can be delayed (UB). Second hit can also be cancelled. Bounce juggle on CH ]

- d+1 - blockable
- delayed d+1 - unblockable
- Kamikaze to FLE - It seems like Yoshi switches to Flea automatically on successful hit!
- Not ended Flea run ends with Yoshi still in FLE stance.
- BT Flash can be done just BT 1+4
- u/f+3+4, b+1 doesn't make Yoshi automatically backflip

- b,b+1+2 - old unblockable, BUT... [ pressing B switches to Yoshimitsu Flash! ]

------------------------------------

Meditation - 3+4

- pressing 3+4 recovers BT (or enters MED while in BT)
- MED backflip is now done by MED 3
- all other moves seem the same

------------------------------------

New BT moves:

- BT 1 (h) [ recovers BT ]
- BT 1,2 (h,h)
- BT 1,3 (h,m)
- BT d+1 (l) [ sword leg cutter? ]
+
old BT 3
old BT 2

------------------------------------
New Flea:


Flea (Jiraiba): d+1+2 [ press B to cancel ]
-- Ruten - 1 (special motion) [ New notation of Roll Forward ]
-- Moguri zugai - 2 (L) [ dmg 25, Yoshi FD/FA. New notation of Flea Head Dive ]
-- Jiraisen - 3 or 4 (special motion)
-- Zugai - 1+2 (h)
-- DGF Switch (Tonbo gaeri) - u+1+2
-- Flea Roo Kick (Jiraihou) - 3+4 (m)
-- IND Switch (Jiraiba ~ Manji Agura) - d+3+4
-- Tonbobakashi - u+3+4 (m) [ DR spring kick ]
-- Jirai Takeuma - F (special motion) [ Flea walk ]
-- (during Flea walk) Sakanobori - (f+)3 (m) [ Hit-throw, Yosh remains in Flea if misses ]
-- (during Flea walk) Tsurubehi - (f+)4 (l)
-- f,F (special motion)
-- D (special motion)
-- u/b, u, u/f (special motion)

----------------------

YOSHIMITSU STANCES AVAILABILITY

NSS - No Sword Stance (switch: 2+3 or special commands)

- limited use of his old stances
- FLE and DGF instantly go to IND stance
- Some of the KIN Sword moves not available:
KIN 1 - nothing
KIN f+2 - works - this does not go to MED after. I tried unless its JF.
KIN 2, 1+2 - Only 2 comes out.
KIN 3 - still slides
KIN 4 - Still does SS 4
KIN u+1+2 - just does a slide.
KIN 1+2 - still takes out both his swords.
KIN Unblockable - Nothing
- d/f+2 standard uppercut available
- u/f+1+2 does a jump-forward motion, useful for setups
- f,f+1+4 is just a fake
- d+1+4 makes Yoshi disappear: usage unknown yet.
- qcb1 knocksdown on hit.
- uf+2 - still takes out his sword

NSS
- I noticed that the only moves that will come out is anything that uses his other sword. The hidden one. If it's the one on his back, it won't. Makes sense since it takes awhile to come out.

Notes:
- bb1+4 - unblockable without sword. The hands have to hit.
- bb1+4~1 - he will point his fingers at you and spin his hand. This is high and unblockable.
- FC,db1 - he will trip you with his hand, however, without the sword, this attack is blockable.
- 2+3_1+4 - sword return. Flash properties.
-df+1+2,2 - natural combo on regular hit.

WSS - With Sword Stance (switch: 2+3 or special commands)

- d/f+2 not available (d/f+2,2 instead)
- available full stance movelist of:

KIN - KinChou Stance (1+2)
DGF - Dragonfly Stance (u+1+2)
FLE - Flea Stance (d+1+2)
MED - Meditation stance (3+4)
IND - Indian Sit stance (d+3+4)

Yoshi Tekken 6 video showing new moves, courtesy of Newrussell - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGq5...feature=related

-----------
Special thanks for Neorussel for Yoshi testing!

Last edited by NoodleHead on Jan 5th, 2009 at 16:14

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DcgbTekkenstyle
Master
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 181
From: USA Illinois
#2 “Quote” Edit Post
1. Change the notation of d/B:3(his little bufferable sweep) to d/b+3 just turn into a standard sweep move form the standing position

2. Improve the tracking on d/f+1,1 just alittle bit this move has a mind of its own sometimes

2. Make dgf+3 KD on normal hit again

Thats all I got for now
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frodo-san
aguantame eso ahi
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 420
From: Puerto Rico
#3 “Quote” Edit Post
1. Turn qcbf+2 into a mixup for qcf+2, where teching the qcbf+2 will result in giving yoshimitsu life. Come on Namco, it's not easy to land the throw at all.

2. Return the ground juggle property of d/b+3's!

3. Make ff+4 safe
QDogg
Manji Foot Soldier
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 4824
From: USA California
PSN: Qunimitsu
#4 “Quote” Edit Post
Edited name of the thread.

I was gonna do this same thing this weekend, but since you beat me to it, I'll just post up in here.

There are lots of things that can be fixed with Yoshi. Here are my ideas-I hope I don't come off as too greedy (especially to non-Yoshi players reading this):

1. df+1,1,1,1 - Why is this move 4 hits? Every character that has a canned power string usually has it at 3 hits (Jin/D.Jin Laser Scraper, Drag db+2,1,2, Law b+1,2,1, Feng f+2,1,2, etc). Why is Yoshi's 4 hits? Who cares how long this move has been in the Tekken series. I think it should be changed to 3 hits, mid, high, mid.

2. Possession (qcb,F+2 throw) - As frodo san pointed out, this mixup needs to be adjusted. It's not hard mixup - they implimented it correctly in the Soul Calibur series. Basically, if you give them health and they break it, you get health. The mixup is the Soul Siphon (qcf+2), where if you try to take their health and they break it, they get health back. The way it is no, there is no mixup.

3. f+1+2 - I really like this move because of its high crush properties. The damage is good, but I think the range should be more since it's punishable. Maybe it could be a bit safer for the range that it has now? If it was safer and did less damage with it's current range, I'd be cool with it.

4. b+1+2 - Why is this move so unsafe? This move doesn't go as far back like Feng's bf+1 or Pauls bf+1 or Christie's db+1+2. The range of the attack going forward is great, but as an evasive move and unsafe, it seems pretty useless.

5. df+3,1 - I think the "1" extension should be delayable, similar to the d+1 delay. Useable as a combo ender.

6. ff+3+4 - this hit alone should recover quickly. This would allow you to approcach easier with the fear of the ~1+2, 3+4 ender.

7. DGF stance - DGF 1 on CH into a juggle starter would be cool. I think the biggest thing that hurt Yoshi was DGF 3 juggling on CH. I suppose I wouldn't be so mad with the way it is now if DGF 4 was better on normal hit. I think DGF 3 should go back the way it was in Tekken 5. I mean, he has to goto a stance to execute this attack. Namco has yet to give Yoshi a low that knocks down from standing (i.e. Lei_Raven db+4). Namco seems to design characters with a sticking precedent (King doesn't have juggle starter move outside of hop kick Changing it back to the Tekken 5 version would maintain that precedent. At least give him a low stagger stun on normal hit from DGF 3 (King d+3+4,4,4 or Craig FC df+4) or something like that. DGF 3+4 is fine IMO.

8. Bad Breath Stance - I really liked this stance in Tekken 5 because of the range of the breath and the backflip. I only use the backflip now because the Breath has no range. What troubles me more though is the name of the move - Bad Breath Stance. Stance...a stance with only 2 attacks? That doesn't seem right. Yoshi is a trick/stance character. It would only make sense to have more attacks from this "stance." My idea - low bad breath! This breath would only be unblockable on CROUCHING opponents. Standing opponents could go through it. Opponents trying to attack as you go into the Bad Breath Stance could by stopped by doing the backflip. Mixups are present. Seems fair, no?

9. FLEA f+1+2 - I think they should add a mid option from the roll itself. Hell, I would be cool with the roll itself as a move without having to go into FLEA to do it.

10. Indian Stance - IND into sword sweep would be cool (IND df+1)

11. BT flash (BT u+1+4) - needs to be easier to perform instead of having to be buffered.

12. df+2 - Better tech crouch property. Juggle crouching opponents though? I think it'd be too much. It would have to be one or the other IMO. If it juggled crouching opponents, uf+3 would lack purpose, which is why I think it should have better tech crouch. It's one of his standard juggle starters. Few characters throw out df+2 as much as Yoshi (fuck Ganny!). I think it should be adjusted accordingly.

13. The apex of the wall flip into uf+1+2 would look dope.

I think Namco has a lot of good ideas for Yoshi as it is. Some of the stuff Yoshi has in Soul Calibur 3 could be put in Tekken. I don't know the notation in SC3, but Yoshi has one attack where he sticks his sword into the ground, then goes into FLEA-that would be great for Yoshi has a ground hitting attack. This also applies to non-sword moves Yoshi has in SC3, like his stance transitions (DGF into IND, IND into FLEA, etc).

Crazy things I'd like to see:

-If you successfully land the qcf+2 throw (or some attack that allows you do this), you could input a command that allows you to copy an opponents attack (bringing back some Tekken 4 stuff). One attack can be copied and once used, it's gone until you successully connect "that attack" again. Yoshi's sword changes color to indicate the hit property of the attack copied (red=high and unblockables, blue=low, yellow=mid; these colors are used in practice mode to indicate the hit range of an attack). b+1+4 executes the first hit of the attack; any additional button presses must be manually input (copy Lei's RR, b+1+4, 2,1,2,3_4). Only a certain set of moves could be copied per character.

Too much? Post up your ideas. Please be fair (if possible).

Q-Out
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Kirby Puckett, Minnesota Twins
1960-2006

g0t soymilk?
Tekken Lord Black
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 967
From: USA California
#5 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by QDogg
Yoshi has one attack where he sticks his sword into the ground, then goes into FLEA-that would be great for Yoshi has a ground hitting attack.


i really like this idea, it would be like yoshi's version of a "stomp" and would fit into his oki game really well. as long as you get the option of whether to enter flea or not, and it does the same damage as everyone elses stomp, then it sounds good.

but why are you hating on the door knocker? i see nothing wrong with 4 hits.

i like the way yoshi is pretty much though, if d/f+3 and d/f+1 tracked i'd be in heaven.
koreanthug808
Iron Fist God
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1286
From: USA Hawaii
PSN: UnorthodoxKorean
XBL: UnorthodoxStyle
#6 “Quote” Edit Post
give yoshi a wavedash into sword sweep haha..

better tracking.

door knocker should be all mids imo... but, if it is, 3 hits like Q said...

i have a big problem with 1,2,1... i know its part of the tenstring and thats why its punishable... i think this string should be safe... DO IT!!!

flea u+3+4 should be executable from dgf. that could be interesting...
QDogg
Manji Foot Soldier
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 4824
From: USA California
PSN: Qunimitsu
#7 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by g0t soymilk?
i really like this idea, it would be like yoshi's version of a "stomp" and would fit into his oki game really well. as long as you get the option of whether to enter flea or not, and it does the same damage as everyone elses stomp, then it sounds good.

but why are you hating on the door knocker? i see nothing wrong with 4 hits.

i like the way yoshi is pretty much though, if d/f+3 and d/f+1 tracked i'd be in heaven.




df+1,1,1,1 as a regular string is useless. Good opponents can duck the second hit easily and WS punish. Making it 3 hits would be better IMO.
Signature "Live, love, laugh, enjoy life."
Kirby Puckett, Minnesota Twins
1960-2006

g0t soymilk?
Tekken Lord Black
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 967
From: USA California
#8 “Quote” Edit Post
if it was 3 hits good opponents would still duck the second hit, besides most people wont be able to duck it every time on reaction, and if they do? you can mixup your strategies accordingly. as it is d/f+1,1,1,1 has lots of uses, d/f+1,1 being a natural combo, and the advantages you get from the hits. also the fact that the hits can be delayed, they are all gauranteed on a backturned opponent, they can be used in juggles/oki etc...
C.L. Smoove
3rd Dan
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 38
#9 “Quote” Edit Post
It would be cool if the DGF+3+4 throw had a potential to wall stun...
I also want to see them make b,b+1+2 cancellable...
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yoshiyoshiyoshiyoshiyoshi
QDogg
Manji Foot Soldier
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 4824
From: USA California
PSN: Qunimitsu
#10 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by g0t soymilk?
if it was 3 hits good opponents would still duck the second hit, besides most people wont be able to duck it every time on reaction, and if they do? you can mixup your strategies accordingly. as it is d/f+1,1,1,1 has lots of uses, d/f+1,1 being a natural combo, and the advantages you get from the hits. also the fact that the hits can be delayed, they are all gauranteed on a backturned opponent, they can be used in juggles/oki etc...


I still think that it should be delayable and df+1,1 being a NC on normal hit and on the full string being guaranteed on their back. The way it is though, can easiy WS punish it. Also, keeping it 4 hits makes it easier to telegraph punch parries (attack reversals are chickenable, but still, it's a little more work. This could be used in your favor as well, delaying the last hit, but good players will WS punish you quickly before this situation arises). I think it'd be harder to WS punish if it was 3 hits.

Considering df+1,1 is mid,high and doesn't track very well, I don't consider it a good poking move. I use 2,3 and the db+2 spins more as a poking tool than df+1,1, but that's just me. I prefer df+1's to be used in combo situations, and from my experience, you usually don't connect all 4 hits in a combo anyway.
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Ken Kusanagi
Champion
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 274
From: Australia
#11 “Quote” Edit Post
It'll be cool if yoshi can go from IND to FLEA; how cool would it be to bait opp for a low poke with IND then counter it with FLEA. and how bout getting rid of FLEA u3+4 and replacing it with a standing u3+4; same range, leaves u standing with frame adv on block and juggle on hit.
frodo-san
aguantame eso ahi
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 420
From: Puerto Rico
#12 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by QDogg
I still think that it should be delayable and df+1,1 being a NC on normal hit and on the full string being guaranteed on their back. The way it is though, can easiy WS punish it. Also, keeping it 4 hits makes it easier to telegraph punch parries (attack reversals are chickenable, but still, it's a little more work. This could be used in your favor as well, delaying the last hit, but good players will WS punish you quickly before this situation arises). I think it'd be harder to WS punish if it was 3 hits.

Considering df+1,1 is mid,high and doesn't track very well, I don't consider it a good poking move. I use 2,3 and the db+2 spins more as a poking tool than df+1,1, but that's just me. I prefer df+1's to be used in combo situations, and from my experience, you usually don't connect all 4 hits in a combo anyway.


The problem lies in d/f+1,1 itself. It's a natural combo, it gives you +5 frame adv. on hit, it's safe (-6) on block, solid damage, 13 frame execution (which is pretty damn fast considering everything so far), and you can spam it on unwary people even more than Nina's f+3. d/f+1,1,1 also punisher back/front rolling on wake up badly. d/f+1,1,1 as a ender leaves you with extremely good oki or guaranteed damage. I agree with the move's weaknesses here, because if it weren't duckable, SS'able, I'd be crying vs other yoshi players. Basically, you have to stick to the usual d/f+2, d/f+4, and possibly u/f+4 and 3, which are all safe and have their respective SS crushing properties, and only 3 can be ducked (and you can still eat 3,3 if opponent expects only the 3). D/f+1,1 is more useful vs good players as a punisher, basically, which is only bad considering there's not that many moves (that I know of) that could be punished by d/f+1,1 as a best option. Also, f+2~d/b+2's are great for spamming.
Pringlamitsu
Champion
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 257
#13 “Quote” Edit Post
I always wanted Yoshi with a 3 hit combo ala Jin's b,f+2,1,2 or Kaz's b+2,4,1 etc. Maybe make it NC on couter-hit (I'll be happy with that) and maybe, just maybe, the third hit stuns on counter and you can juggle after it. Also maybe you can delay the second and third hit.

That's all I can think of at the moment. Hopefully, more to come.
QDogg
Manji Foot Soldier
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 4824
From: USA California
PSN: Qunimitsu
#14 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by frodo-san
D/f+1,1 is more useful vs good players as a punisher, basically, which is only bad considering there's not that many moves (that I know of) that could be punished by d/f+1,1 as a best option. Also, f+2~d/b+2's are great for spamming.



Yes, f+2~db+2s are fun for spamming.

I have examined df+1,1 situations, but with the second hit being high in general, it takes away some of it's flare. It's good in oki/combo situations, no doublt. I suppose that's it's purpose. If it were df+1,1 high mid, I'd be all about it.
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Kazu-Yoshi-girl
a.k.a Tenshimitsu
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2007
From: Poland
PSN: Tenshimitsu
#15 “Quote” Edit Post
My little thoughts.

1. Nina has d/f+1,2, which is unduckable and can lead to more punches and kicks. Anna has, d/f+1,2,3. ...I would imagine Yoshi's:

- Whole Door Knocker series still delayable.
- d/f+1,1 unduckable, NC, but still hitting mid-high. Like Nina's d/f+1,2. (with -6 adv. on block, +5 adv on hit.)
- The third hit would be duckable and crush-able, but after blocked d/f+1,1 it would be uninterruptable by normal punches (They can duck it but they can't fit there punches if the third hit isn't delayed.). iWS would still hurt here much.
- Even if d/f+1,1,1 is blocked, last hit would BE interruptable, that is, after blocked d/f+1,1,1, you'd be able to hit Yoshi with jabs before last hit comes out. (unlike now). BUT... if third hit hits, then last cannot be interrupted. Last one still would have advantage on block and force crouch property.

How would it look like?

So... d/f+1,1, mid-high series unduckable on block, would be an awesome tool of approach. It anyway would track better because "unduckable" hits kinda "stick" more to the opponent (Have more priority). Just like Nina's. She doesn't have there advantage in Tekken DR, but a minor disadvantage. Just like Yoshi has now. It'd be not a move that would be that abusable. Third hit could be anyway ducked.
It would of course lead to guess up, just like in Nina's case. In case of direct attack after d/f+1,1, two last hits that combo on CH (like now) would be very nice (not to say very powerful!), but I don't really need that (but one would have to be the case: if third hit hits, the last one must not be interruptable. Only if third hit is blocked or ducked, last one can be interrupted). The essential thing is with two first hits.

Yoshi needs a move like this due to his 1,2,1 punches which are damn punishable and painfully short-ranged, and 2,2 and 2,1 starting at 11th frame. Yoshi needs it, dammit!

Now it's pretty useless. Now the properties are:
- Door knocker delayable
- first hit -10 disadv. on block (damn wrong!)
- second hit can be crushed and ducked EASILY
- On hit, 1st and 2nd hits are NC (but we all know how often it's NC... about 50% of times)
- If second hit is blocked, non-delayed third hit cannot be ducked under. But if you ducked second, you can easily fit WS move there.
- Third and last hit combos on CH
- Last hit cannot be interrupted if third is blocked.

On block, versus experienced opponent, WE DON'T HAVE A CHANCE to land even a second blow! Not to mention even if opponent didn't master iWS, he can use ANY high crush, or even if he only ducks it, he has much time to punish under the third hit. If you don't want to fly after first hit and do only d/f+1, you are anyway punished by 10-frame-punisher. Compare to other characters.... ARGH.
And a mixup? What a mixup?... With slow d/f+1,2, in the current game system that favours high crushers? This is damn wrong for Yoshi.

And did I mention guaranteed low punch just after d/f+1? NO CHANCE to land a whole series. Useless in direct combat.... and Yoshi needs an approach tool.

2. I would do the same with 4,4,4 kicks. Make the first two unduckable, but third hit duckable. It is HIGH, dammit... Law has kicks that are unduckable, why not Yoshi? If we don't want to have Yoshi's offensive relying only on one or two moves, it would be essential. Personally, I would use it like a madman. (madgirl? )

3. If something hits roundhouse, then it really should hit both sidesteppers and sidewalkers. Like Yoshi's 3 or f+3 kick. Like d/f+4 (which should hit at least to one side, like Lee's kick). Like goddammit FC,d/f+3 which now looks silly. Linear, easy to see, badly punishable and leading to weak combo: is that a sweep of choice? It should be safer (or leading to more damaging combos, especially because Sword Sweep is weaker), and hitting at least one sidestep/sidewalk all the time.

4. Yoshi's d/f+2 is fine as it is. It doesn't tech crouch because it has hella good range and really nice recovery (-4 disadv, it's really very few frames).

5. DGF 3 should juggle on normal hit. If opponent wants to avoid DGF 3+4, he will duck anyway. There's no mixup with DGF 1 anymore, so it would be a just decision to bring the normal juggling property back to DGF 3.

6. More low moves overall, including a low move from standing position and recovering in standing position.

7. More mobility in BT position. Give Yoshi a low sweep from BT. Easier flash in BT and BT flea back.

8. Give Yoshi full stance transitions. Faster Indian Sit.

9. Give Yoshi old Bad Breath back!!! If not, then at least useful new extensions.

10. Yoshi's 2,1 or 2,2 punches being the high-mid series. OH YEAH! So little, giving so much.

11. I agree with better recovery of f,f+3+4. This move is plain pitiful.

12. I agree with delayable d/f+3,1, and I would add completely cancellable b,b+1 move, just like every other character has.

13. d+1+2, being a sword stab to the ground, d+1+2,1 being the Sword launcher we know now as simple d+1+2, and d+1+2,1+2 being a sword hit leading to Flea Like in SC. And make it faster!

I would add tons of new things... but well...

...generally, give Yoshi better new moves...
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frodo-san
aguantame eso ahi
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 420
From: Puerto Rico
#16 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Kazu-Yoshi-girl
My little thoughts.

1. Nina has d/f+1,2, which is unduckable and can lead to more punches and kicks. Anna has, d/f+1,2,3. ...I would imagine Yoshi's:

- Whole Door Knocker series still delayable.
- d/f+1,1 unduckable, NC, but still hitting mid-high. Like Nina's d/f+1,2. (with -6 adv. on block, +5 adv on hit.)
- The third hit would be duckable and crush-able, but after blocked d/f+1,1 it would be uninterruptable by normal punches (They can duck it but they can't fit there punches if the third hit isn't delayed.). iWS would still hurt here much.
- Even if d/f+1,1,1 is blocked, last hit would BE interruptable, that is, after blocked d/f+1,1,1, you'd be able to hit Yoshi with jabs before last hit comes out. (unlike now). BUT... if third hit hits, then last cannot be interrupted. Last one still would have advantage on block and force crouch property.

How would it look like?

So... d/f+1,1, mid-high series unduckable on block, would be an awesome tool of approach. It anyway would track better because "unduckable" hits kinda "stick" more to the opponent (Have more priority). Just like Nina's. She doesn't have there advantage in Tekken DR, but a minor disadvantage. Just like Yoshi has now. It'd be not a move that would be that abusable. Third hit could be anyway ducked.
It would of course lead to guess up, just like in Nina's case. In case of direct attack after d/f+1,1, two last hits that combo on CH (like now) would be very nice (not to say very powerful!), but I don't really need that (but one would have to be the case: if third hit hits, the last one must not be interruptable. Only if third hit is blocked or ducked, last one can be interrupted). The essential thing is with two first hits.

Yoshi needs a move like this due to his 1,2,1 punches which are damn punishable and painfully short-ranged, and 2,2 and 2,1 starting at 11th frame. Yoshi needs it, dammit!

Now it's pretty useless. Now the properties are:
- Door knocker delayable
- first hit -10 disadv. on block (damn wrong!)
- second hit can be crushed and ducked EASILY
- On hit, 1st and 2nd hits are NC (but we all know how often it's NC... about 50% of times)
- If second hit is blocked, non-delayed third hit cannot be ducked under. But if you ducked second, you can easily fit WS move there.
- Third and last hit combos on CH
- Last hit cannot be interrupted if third is blocked.

On block, versus experienced opponent, WE DON'T HAVE A CHANCE to land even a second blow! Not to mention even if opponent didn't master iWS, he can use ANY high crush, or even if he only ducks it, he has much time to punish under the third hit. If you don't want to fly after first hit and do only d/f+1, you are anyway punished by 10-frame-punisher. Compare to other characters.... ARGH.
And a mixup? What a mixup?... With slow d/f+1,2, in the current game system that favours high crushers? This is damn wrong for Yoshi.

And did I mention guaranteed low punch just after d/f+1? NO CHANCE to land a whole series. Useless in direct combat.... and Yoshi needs an approach tool.

2. I would do the same with 4,4,4 kicks. Make the first two unduckable, but third hit duckable. It is HIGH, dammit... Law has kicks that are unduckable, why not Yoshi? If we don't want to have Yoshi's offensive relying only on one or two moves, it would be essential. Personally, I would use it like a madman. (madgirl? )

3. If something hits roundhouse, then it really should hit both sidesteppers and sidewalkers. Like Yoshi's 3 or f+3 kick. Like d/f+4 (which should hit at least to one side, like Lee's kick). Like goddammit FC,d/f+3 which now looks silly. Linear, easy to see, badly punishable and leading to weak combo: is that a sweep of choice? It should be safer (or leading to more damaging combos, especially because Sword Sweep is weaker), and hitting at least one sidestep/sidewalk all the time.

4. Yoshi's d/f+2 is fine as it is. It doesn't tech crouch because it has hella good range and really nice recovery (-4 disadv, it's really very few frames).

5. DGF 3 should juggle on normal hit. If opponent wants to avoid DGF 3+4, he will duck anyway. There's no mixup with DGF 1 anymore, so it would be a just decision to bring the normal juggling property back to DGF 3.

6. More low moves overall, including a low move from standing position and recovering in standing position.

7. More mobility in BT position. Give Yoshi a low sweep from BT. Easier flash in BT and BT flea back.

8. Give Yoshi full stance transitions. Faster Indian Sit.

9. Give Yoshi old Bad Breath back!!! If not, then at least useful new extensions.

10. Yoshi's 2,1 or 2,2 punches being the high-mid series. OH YEAH! So little, giving so much.

11. I agree with better recovery of f,f+3+4. This move is plain pitiful.

12. I agree with delayable d/f+3,1, and I would add completely cancellable b,b+1 move, just like every other character has.

13. d+1+2, being a sword stab to the ground, d+1+2,1 being the Sword launcher we know now as simple d+1+2, and d+1+2,1+2 being a sword hit leading to Flea Like in SC. And make it faster!

I would add tons of new things... but well...

...generally, give Yoshi better new moves...


Best wishlist ever!

Sometimes I wish yoshimitsu had a safe mid poke to track to yoshi's left, if I'm correct you can just SS to yoshi's left to avoid d/f+4, people who expect this move will make you eat a launcher.

Also, I like the d/f+1,1 ideas. Let's hope it goes that way.
Kazu-Yoshi-girl
a.k.a Tenshimitsu
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2007
From: Poland
PSN: Tenshimitsu
#17 “Quote” Edit Post
I'm happy you like it, frodo ^^.

There are also some technical issues that I would like to change in Tekken 6:

- If my char is lying on the ground, hitting D or D/B should recover him low-blocking... I'm getting quite frustrated as he starts backrolling and after that he obviously receives backroll punishment. Like it is now: u~D/B... makes no sense.

- while standing from the ground, there's a short stage of "WS" stance. But even in this stance he should be able to low-parry the moves.

- better crushing system. Flying opponents shouldn't be juggled normally. Do a knee u/f+3 and see that while Yoshi's still in the air, he can be normally juggled, not just hit out of the air. It happened to me many times. It should be corrected.

Going back to Yoshi, I reminded myself one thing:

- all moves that execute from indian sit should still have high-crush property during the spinning execution. See this: make Yoshi spin (doing a move), and you'll see that a high move can hit him out of it (like EWGF). NONE of the opponents moves should juggle or low-juggle Yoshi normally from this stance. He should be knocked to the ground, NOT juggled! See Christies or Xiaoyu's low stances (that in addition go even lower than Yoshi). Such a reward from using a stance??? It's enough to have DGF easily to jab out.

I think that's all for now... the rest of things were listed earlier not only by me.
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C.L. Smoove
3rd Dan
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 38
#18 “Quote” Edit Post
One minor thing...

Maybe my memory is bad, but I don't recall Yoshi being able to do indian sit when he is on the floor, head towards opponent (EDIT to clarify: back on the ground). If he can do it on the ground while facing the opponent, I see no reason why he shouldn't be able to facing away.

Last edited by C.L. Smoove on Aug 13th, 2006 at 08:08

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yoshiyoshiyoshiyoshiyoshi
QDogg
Manji Foot Soldier
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 4824
From: USA California
PSN: Qunimitsu
#19 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Kazu-Yoshi-girl
I'm happy you like it, frodo ^^.

There are also some technical issues that I would like to change in Tekken 6:

- If my char is lying on the ground, hitting D or D/B should recover him low-blocking... I'm getting quite frustrated as he starts backrolling and after that he obviously receives backroll punishment. Like it is now: u~D/B... makes no sense.

- while standing from the ground, there's a short stage of "WS" stance. But even in this stance he should be able to low-parry the moves.

- better crushing system. Flying opponents shouldn't be juggled normally. Do a knee u/f+3 and see that while Yoshi's still in the air, he can be normally juggled, not just hit out of the air. It happened to me many times. It should be corrected.

Going back to Yoshi, I reminded myself one thing:

- all moves that execute from indian sit should still have high-crush property during the spinning execution. See this: make Yoshi spin (doing a move), and you'll see that a high move can hit him out of it (like EWGF). NONE of the opponents moves should juggle or low-juggle Yoshi normally from this stance. He should be knocked to the ground, NOT juggled! See Christies or Xiaoyu's low stances (that in addition go even lower than Yoshi). Such a reward from using a stance??? It's enough to have DGF easily to jab out.

I think that's all for now... the rest of things were listed earlier not only by me.


-If you could get up that way, I don't see why not just making it so that you could do DF to immediately getup and low parry. Or even do UB to jump away. Or maybe that's a bit to much.

-Yeah, the FD/FT into ws attack state is weird. Some charaters have good attacks from there, like Xiayou (iws+4). More characters should have attacks for that situation. I'm in favor of more proper FC low attacks for all characters (ala Feng FC df+1).

I don't think crush attacks should juggle. Maybe just hit for CH damage, or give beneficial situations, but not juggle so much.

Yeah, IND stance needs to crush better.

He should have the roll into FC as a move itself (FC df+1+2?)

Q-Out
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g0t soymilk?
Tekken Lord Black
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 967
From: USA California
#20 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by QDogg
He should have the roll into FC as a move itself (FC df+1+2?)


iono that would look kinda weird, i prefer to use forward rolls into full crouch when im grounded though

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