Hwo/Baek Team Talk

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tinokuken
7th Dan
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#1 “Quote” Edit Post
Post massive TKD combos here. xD
3L1
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#2 “Quote” Edit Post
This looks dangerous to me because I don't want to fill this section up with Hwo/xxx threads but since it's the TKD team then why don't we let 'er rip in here & take every other partner combo to the combo thread?
Silly Goose
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#3 “Quote” Edit Post
I've been having trouble figuring out decent combos for them. Specifically TA fillers with Hwo that let baek keep going without a wall. And for some reason I can't get Hwo's RFF F+3, HH to work off of a bind
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Tekken7onPS4
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#4 “Quote” Edit Post
How do you do their unique"Great" combo?
tinokuken
7th Dan
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#5 “Quote” Edit Post
The 'Great' combo is...

Baek u+3+4~5, Hwo u/f+3, 4, 3, d/f+3+4~5.

JFSR~5 into Great combo = 93 dmg.
Tool God
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#6 “Quote” Edit Post
Actually it's just Baek u+3+4~5 Hwoarang 3,4,3 3+4. When the 3+4 lands (df isnt necessary) Baek automatically comes in to finish. No need to press 5 at the end.
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goldenboyd
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#7 “Quote” Edit Post
Hwo on point
b+3, 4,4,3 B! uf 3,4,3 uf 3,4,3 10 hit 135 dmg
jfSR_fOXStEP
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From: Germany
#8 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by goldenboyd
Hwo on point
b+3, 4,4,3 B! uf 3,4,3 uf 3,4,3 10 hit 135 dmg


i dont get it? what do u mean?
3L1
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#9 “Quote” Edit Post
Setups & combos featuring the tag combo @ 7:45

Silly Goose
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#10 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by tinokuken
The 'Great' combo is...

Baek u+3+4~5, Hwo u/f+3, 4, 3, d/f+3+4~5.

JFSR~5 into Great combo = 93 dmg.


JFSR~5 into U/F+2 into great combo 106 dmg
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Commandoo
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#11 “Quote” Edit Post
I've seen afew vids on tekken tag with hwo/baek and can't seem to workout a combo it's like this I think

Hwo launches/bounds (tag baek) u/f * 3,3 1,2,3+f 1,2,3+f 1+2,4 (hwo) d/f 3+4

Thing is I don't get it and can't do it on tag with baek??

It was seen by a video I watched by a guy with online psn nashi02 he's quite good with both hwo n baek..

Any suggestions??
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FJB
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#12 “Quote” Edit Post
Hi all hwo & Baek player I play with these also.
I assume that all of you are familiar with how to execute Cool tag combo
Here are some possibility to execute Cool tag Combo (CTC) of Hwo/Baek,

1) df+2, B+3~3, (CTC notation)
2) WR+2,1 (CTC notation)
3) ff+4,3 (Wallbreak) (CTC notation)
4) f,'N'd,df+3, (Either with baek or JFSR with Hwo than tag baek) uf+2, (CTC notation) [104 pts]

If anyone find out more tricks to perform this combo then please post.
jfSR_fOXStEP
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#13 “Quote” Edit Post
what is the cool tag combo? xD xD
chewbacca
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#14 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by goldenboyd
Hwo on point
b+3, 4,4,3 B! uf 3,4,3 uf 3,4,3 10 hit 135 dmg


Are you sure this one's 135? Because mine just says 84.
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#15 “Quote” Edit Post
Baek vs Hwo? Who's better?

We need to have this discussion. We've had King vs AK, Marshall vs Forest. We need to have this discussion.
Signature St. George loves my attitude! ("You know too much." - azL) Everything will remain at 50% of its ideal size.
"Here son do a slight dash after ff4,3 into 4,3,4 when they're flying through the air and those Nina players will stop teasing your execution at school." - Skeering
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CaCarmen
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#16 “Quote” Edit Post
FLA pressure with minus frames < FLA pressure with plus frames.

Though Baek has FLA throw and super Baek sweep... sooo....
Signature "老外的LEI很烦人了"
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#17 “Quote” Edit Post
Haha I knew we would have frames coming in the discussion.
Signature St. George loves my attitude! ("You know too much." - azL) Everything will remain at 50% of its ideal size.
"Here son do a slight dash after ff4,3 into 4,3,4 when they're flying through the air and those Nina players will stop teasing your execution at school." - Skeering
"If Baek gets your back you basically die." - Bronson
"At the bottom of the tier list, it's hard to hear the bitching from the top." - raybonekilla
joe
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 6
From: Canada
#18 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by FJB
Hi all hwo & Baek player I play with these also.
I assume that all of you are familiar with how to execute Cool tag combo
Here are some possibility to execute Cool tag Combo (CTC) of Hwo/Baek,

1) df+2, B+3~3, (CTC notation)
2) WR+2,1 (CTC notation)
3) ff+4,3 (Wallbreak) (CTC notation)
4) f,'N'd,df+3, (Either with baek or JFSR with Hwo than tag baek) uf+2, (CTC notation) [104 pts]

If anyone find out more tricks to perform this combo then please post.


CTC off a d/f+2!?? i cant get it consistant, but learning it would make the baek+hwo combo that much more dangerous.

also CTC can be done after a knockdown (eg f+4,4 -> WS 2,1 -> CTC) when baek is behind the opponent.

Last edited by joe on Nov 26th, 2012 at 15:01

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#19 “Quote” Edit Post
Coming from my little question, I actually sat down and thought about Baek vs Hwo seriously. This is my analogy. I'll be posting this in the Baek forums as well, and also we have a lot of players (myself included) who cry and bitch about Baek haha.

Baek vs Hwoarang
Teacher vs Student
Who's better?
This is a question people ask each other and themselves all the time. Who should they pick? Hwoarang is said to be one of the most difficult characters to pick up, and I would have a really, really hard time arguing against that, it's true. But what saddens me is that people do not put Baek on that list too. I mean, even though Baek has one of the shorter move lists in the game, by no means is he an easy character. I mean, once you get past the standing 3 mix-up, it gets difficult.

General Hwo/Baek team overview
Team Korea is known to be one of the more advanced teams out there, but mostly it's not just execution (yeah yeah they have WD, but Baek doesn't really need it so shut up) even though they are one of the harder characters execution wise. Team Korea is more based around applying aggressive mix-ups on you, and making you guess constantly while they chip away at your life-bar. Granted it's a more risky method of playing since turtling has always had the advantage over pitbulling because of movement freedom and what not, but that's how Team Korea rolls.
If the opponent does not know Team Korea, they're the scariest opponents to face. So the method of beating them is just character knowledge, and making a bunch of educated guesses, because if you block something punishable (let's say the Hwoarang player was hoping you'd be looking out for RFS df+4 and you throw out RFS d+3 and it gets blocked) they're going for a ride.
So overall, they're one of the most pitbullish teams out there. Their other weakness, in general, is tracking. I'm sure most people would agree that Team Korea is rather steppable, as compared to, say, even Bryan. They're better than BR Zafina and Lili, I'm not saying they're that bad, but a correct guess will get you to their side or back easy.

- General overview -
- Baek -
Baek is known for FLA SS, db+4 (what NoodleHead calls his YOLO sweep, haha), FLA grab, top 5-10 (depending on what your preference is) wall carry, and having -ve on almost everything on block. His FLA is based around cancelling moves into doing other moves out of his movelist, unlike Hwoarang who gets an entirely separate bunch on moves in his LFS or RFS. Say a Baek player is doing -12 punish, 4,3,3~f. If he guesses the opponent is going to duck, to get away from another 4,3,3~f, he can bust out a df+2 into juicy juggle goodness. The problem is that if you cancel at the wrong time and the opponent predicts it, you're getting CH'd, and with opponents like Steve and Bruce, that does not feel good at all.
- Hwoarang -
Hworang is known for having 4 stances, constant pressure game, no throw mix-up in his Flamingo pressure game, having very hard combos and just above average wall carry, and JFSR. JFSR is unarguably one of the best whiff punishers, and half life off of it solo, no TA, no walls make it extremely dangerous. He's got + frames going into a lot of stuff, and even stuff such as RFF 2,4~f give him + on block. His poke mix-up is buffed the hell up with LFS_LFF d+3,4 being NC now, and his RFS mix-ups are sick. His flamingo has entirely different moves out of it altogether, and for the most part the mids are safe (RFS b+3 being a main exception), and his lows only slightly punishable (except for flamingo sweeps).
- Keep Out -
- Baek -
He's got a magic 4, and he gets a decently beefy juggle from it. (CH 4, 3+4~f, 1, f+4,3~f B!, 3+4~f df+3+4 for anyone who's wondering). He's got FLA 3XSS (SSR, b+3, SSR), which is unarguably better than Hwoarang's (SSR, f,n,3, SSR). He's got a decent amount of high crushes (d+3 for jabs and ub+4 and db+4 for reliable high crushes) and low crushes (his hopkick, HH, uf+2 and FLA uf+3) which, if guessed right on the crush, can lead into a momentum shift easily. He's got a PP which is great against jab happy players/characters (Jack, Steve, Bears and Ganryu get eaten by that shit alive).
- Hwoarang -
No magic 4 sucks hardcore. He's got not a lot of stuff to keep people off of him. The best he has is 1,2,f+3, SSL b+2 (which even Baek can do but not receive the same reward for landing a CH b+2), and 2,f+4 which are all decent but overall they suck bad compared to a Dragunov CH 1,2,1 or a Bruce magic 4 into wall carry into half life goodbye.
His high crushes are slow and so are his low crushes. LFF db+3, duck jabs, LFS db+3, RFS db+4, RFF db+3, RFF b+4, Flamingo Sweeps are all decent options to high crush, but except for duck jabs (which is not rewarding enough) they're all rather slow. His low crushes are just bad. He has no hopkick, HH is 28F, uf+4 is not a reliable low crush, u+3+4 has no range whatsoever and you can float him out of it.
- Offense -
- Baek -
I've come to the conclusion that Baek's offense is not better than Hwoarang's. For Baek, the most basic FLA mix-up is FLA 3,3~f or db+3,3~f. FLA 3,3~f is like old school Hwo LFS 3,3~f, while db+3,3~f is a low which gives +8 on hit (I think this is the only low in the game giving such a high frame advantage on regular hit). Now, the problem with this is that you're guessing every time you bust out any one of these bitches. If you do FLA 3,3, and they block it, it's mid high and they can duck and launch. But if you cancel it and they predict that, they can do their CH launcher and kill him for it. Same with db+3,3. It's low high and same situation applies.
You can try and put strings into it, and the best one to do is df+4,4,3. It's mid mid mid. It's NCc (the first two parts are) and if the third hit is cancelled, you're at a respectable frame advantage. You can hit confirm it. Another one is d+4,3,3,3. Same, it's NCc till the last hit, but the mix-up between the low and the mid isn't very strong at all. He can, however, cancel the last mid kick into FLA for more guessing games. It's punishable after every hit. We can add more strings into it, however, the problem with this is that they're all either steppable, have highs in them, are extremely punishable or the mix-up between cancel and no cancel can be negated via sidestep rather easily with some practice.
He does have FLA grab, but he only has one, which has a 1+2 break. You can use it to catch people off guard.
The happy times his offense has is that you can hit check and follow up with stuff though. That's what he has, but the mid enders which you'd be cancelling, are rather punishable.
- Hwoarang -
Hwoarang's pressure game is legitimate. He can transition into LFS or RFS from jabs and bringing in a shit ton of + frames. He's the character that has a legitimate, frame-data pressure game, not as guessing heavy as Baek's is. I'll go so far to say that he can kinda do auto-pilot mix-ups too. Let me explain. Say if you don't want to mix-up. If you find yourself in flamingo, you can just go, "Oh, let me do my only jab punishable, tracking, advancing mid (see LFS b+3 and RFS b+4) here," or, "Oh, let me do my rather safe low here." With Baek, that's not that case. Hwoarang's offense fails if the opponent knows where to duck, but if you stick to some basic mid-low mix-up (such as LFS b+3_LFS 3,4 and LFS d+3,4 in LFS and RFS df+4 and RFS sweep in RFS) you can stay relatively safe.
You can play a bit stringy with Hwoarang, using custom strings (1,2,3 LFS d+3,4, RFS 2,4~f, RFS df+4 for example) and he can do it well, much better than Baek IMO, because Hwo has more to put on the plate that way, and Team Korea's motto is putting more on the plate to confuse them and then launch them for sitting there like a duck.
- Punishing -
- Baek -
Standing
-10: 1,2,3~f for + frames or 2,2 for damage.
-12: 4,3,3~f
-13: df+1,3
-14: 1+2,4
-15: df+2
-16: b+4
-17_18: Sky rocket, db+2
WS
-10: FC d+1
-11: WS 4,4 (HC-able)
-13: WS 1,3
-15: WS 2,1 (instant B!)
Stagger lows: CC, Sky rocket
Baek has a better -10 punisher in 2,2, which at -3 is a good FLA 3xSS bait. He gets KND at -14 which gives good oki at the wall. His Sky rocket, unlike Hwo's, is -17 on block. Regular wall splat with b+4 is also decent. His df+2 has more range than Hwo's.
His WS punishing is much, much better than Hwo's. He gets a launch at -15 which is great. His WS 4,4 is HC-able and gives + frames into mix-up.
His whiff punishing is decent because of db+2, but Hwo has JFSR which is by far better than Baek's db+2.
Overall, Baek takes the cake, but by not a lot.
- Hwoarang -
Standing
-10: 1,2,3_1,2,4
-12: 4,3
-14: uf+3+4,4
-15: df+2
-17: b+3
-18 and beyond: JFSR
WS:
-10: FC d+1
-11: WS 4,4
-14: uf+3+4,4
-15: WS 3, ff+3, RFF ff+3 (I believe the last part can be avoided by tag crash)
Stagger lows: CC, JFSR
Decently solid standing punishment, but WS still sucks balls. Hoping to get uf+3+4,4 on a blocked low? Good luck finding lows that are -14 on block. His df+2 doesn't have the phantom range that Baek's does. Although in whiff punishing Hwo is much better than Baek, since JFSR. Baek's Sky Rocket is death on block, while Hwo's is safe on almost everyone.

- Combos -
- Baek -
Baek has his own share of difficult combos, such as his wall carry (generic launch, 4,3,3~f, FLA 3,3~f, (3+4~f)X2, db+2) which can be incredibly inconsistent and difficult. Other than that his combos are relatively easy, as he doesn't really have stance transitions (more of cancels), or it's just that I'm biased because I've been doing Baek combos for a long time.
He can get above 70 or just 70 solo no walls off of every launcher except for db+2 (the 70+ juggle isn't consistent). His magic 4 gives half life in walled stages (check my post in the Baek solo combo thread).
- Hwoarang -
Hwoarang is one of the best combo characters, because of his above average wall carry options, combo damage (JFSR does half life open ground solo no walls no TA), his transitions in combos, and his damaging (Kuma specific) wall combos.
Hwoarang's one of the best and most creative TA characters because of his moveset, transitions, and stuff like that. He also gets one of the most stylish TA's with blue sparkles/JFSR.

- Oki -
- Baek -
His oki is decent, d+2 (the chop that hits them if they do anything but get up from slam downs) is jab punishable now, and db+3,3~f floats for a combo if they get up to block d+2 (from slam downs).
It's the same at walls.
He does have double db+3,3~f oki, which is really good (look up Marin's video if you want more info on that reset) and can be used in TA's too which is great.
He only has 2 really good oki grabs.
- Hwoarang -
His open ground oki is decent, but only really works from slamdowns. It's either eat a little db+4 to float, RFF d+4 as a little stomp or if you want to block that (dunno why), JFSR. There's no real incentive to just get up and block the stomp or db+4 there. It's the same at the wall.
His grabs give better oki than Baek's (more oki based grabs than Baek).

I'm not sure if I'm missing anything.
Please correct me wherever I'm wrong.
It'll be great if we get more discussion on this topic.
Signature St. George loves my attitude! ("You know too much." - azL) Everything will remain at 50% of its ideal size.
"Here son do a slight dash after ff4,3 into 4,3,4 when they're flying through the air and those Nina players will stop teasing your execution at school." - Skeering
"If Baek gets your back you basically die." - Bronson
"At the bottom of the tier list, it's hard to hear the bitching from the top." - raybonekilla
CaCarmen
Iron Fist God
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1078
From: China
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#20 “Quote” Edit Post
Nice post. I'll add a few points.

For Hwo's punishes I would add 1,1 for -10 (third hit is a low mixups!), 4,f3 for -12 (cancelled mixups!) and df4,3 for -14.

One thing that is really good for both Baek and Hwo is that they are able to be very creative with wall carries. For example, with Hwo you can use df2, 2,4,2 RFF4,4 for a close high wall splat, b3 f4 RFSf3,4 for a damaging wall splat, etc. Baek also has a lot of stuff too, being able to end with db2 into ff3, 2,2... etc. I feel like most if not all other characters are merely adding or cutting jabs out of thier juggles when trying to set up for a wall splat.

Hwo's oki is pretty good (its not like Capoeira good but whatever), if their not moving ff3_RFFff3 does 22_24 points of damage. The RFF stomp is also 20, which is pretty high (B! ff3 plus stomp is 30 damage, compared to 23 for HH or BL into RFSb4) and is not really avoidable after certain enders. db4 float juggle... is a lot worse... than it was in BR, but its still at least 27~28 damage (depending on what you're going for and what distance thier at), and whats great about it is if you see them tech roll, you can go for an uninterruptable RFS mixup as they wake up. Plus there are more damaging resets (RFF3 and delayed backlash) that can do 40 plus damage (again, depending on distance and what you're going for).
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