Master Raven Master Thread - Read this first! Q&As

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Gandido
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1918
From: USA Florida
PSN: Gandido787
#1 “Quote” Edit Post
If you're here, you want to learn Master Raven. This thread is meant to point you towards the right direction.

A lot of us have already gone through the trouble of making particular things very accessible, be it from frame data, to detailed scenarios, as well as combo information. This thread is here to make this forum more compact and organized.

• FRAME DATA and MOVE DESCRIPTIONS •

Check out Sneaky_Coyote's Raven bible. It essentially has everything you would need for the character, and more, but a huge bulk of it is frame data. He has the moves color coded and sorted for everyone's benefit.

Link is https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...JPzPh2S/pubhtml

• COMBO LIST •

UberDuder has managed to put up a list of Raven's different combo options and some of the followups that could happen after them.

Link is http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/forum...threadid=132938

• LIST OF PUNISHERS •

Standing Punishers
10f: 1,2 or 2,4 (can wall splat due to s! and does a good deal of damage)
12f: 4,1 (ends in BT/SDW/LAB)
13f: d/b+2,1 (used when 4,1 does not reach)
14f: b+44 (almost never used, but can wall splat due to s!)
15f: f+2,3 or RAGE f+3+4,2 (Rage Drive - launch)
16f: d/f+2 (launch - gives nosebleed against crouchers)
17f: 4~3 or ff+3 (both if done as soon as possible) (both launch)

While Standing Punishment
10f: FC 1 (low jab)
11f: WS4 (does more damage than WS2)
13f: WS2 (causes nosebleed) (CH launch)
14: WS1 (nc launch)

• NOTABLE PLAYERS / FOLLOWING INFORMATION •

These players are some of the ones who have been using M. Raven more notably and getting results. Some are also posted to just bring about different playstyles. Will include a list of twitch/YT channel

KOR - GoAttack, Knee, Rage
JAP - Fukushi, Hifana, Kirito
NA - KongoJack, Gandido, EkieofWichita
EUR - Tissuemon, Mr Adam0, ThePhantom
AUS - RavenBoy
PHL - ELITE.Pica

• FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS •

Q: How do I perform XYZ parry with M. Raven?
A: Raven has 4 different parry effects, and they all are performed differently:
°bB+2 / qcf+1+2 - results in HAZ 4 coming out. bB+2 is said to have 3 active parry frames (first 3), while I've tested out qcf+1+2 to 5 parry frames (first 5)
°1+2 / SDW_LAB_BT 1+2 - results in HAZ 2 coming out. Said to have 3 active parry frames (first 3)
°SDW_LAB_BT f+1+2 - results in a unique reversal that can not be chickened; parries punches and kicks, mids and highs; parries for the first 8 frames.
°b+1+3_b+2+4 - results in a teleport away; can be punished if anticipated; can also be performed from BT; parries highs, mids AND lows; parries EVERYTHING that isn't a Rage Art (i.e. it works on knees, elbows, and even Yoshimitsu swords) (IN PROGRESS - will test out Kasumi tigers, Akuma fireballs, Eliza dark waves and Alisa rockets)

Q: How do I do iWS moves out of Raven's Crouch Dash?
A: The input is d, df, n, (button). So if you want iWS2 out of her crouch dash, do d, df, n, 2. The important thing is to never hit forward. If you hit forward you will get QCF moves instead. An alternative way of doing this would be d, d/f, n, b + button. This way you ensure that you don't hit forward.

Q: How do I do d/f_d/b (directional moves) out of Raven's Crouch Dash?
A: This is the only reason you would want to finish the CD motion with qcf - as soon as you tap forward, the game considers you as a standing character, so after that, you are free to do d+3, d+4, d/b+4, d/f+1 and d/f+4. In short, the input is d, d/f, f, d/f+button. Learning to do d/f+4 is important due to its status as a launcher when people are crouching, as some characters can punish WS1 with 14f punishers for a lot of damage, and d/f+4 is tricky to punish due to its followup.

Q: Why am I getting hit so easily out of Crouch Dash? Why can't I block?
A: When you do M. Raven's crouch dash with the qcf input, you can't hold back to block. In order to block, you must first do a short tap up and then hit back. This will cancel the dash with a sidestep. Also, performing her crouch dash with qcf leaves Raven vulnerable to highs and jabs - performing the dash with just d, d/f avoids these movements. So, in short - crouch dash with qcf (d,d/f,f) input does NOT go under jabs/highs. You get hit like if you were standing. Crouch dash with d,d/f input DOES go under jabs and highs. If you hold back during this CD and a high was thrown near the very end, you WILL block it. (Tested vs. Alisa's RA since it stays out for so long).

Q: How can I crouch dash quickly?
A: The double crouch dash is performed by doing Raven's FC slide movement (d/f,d, D/F) while you are still in the first "command' crouch dash. Being in the FC dash is good because you can cancel that one into backdash/block, so it's usually good to do the first command from a distance and then going into FC dash so you can block if you change your mind.

There is a NEW method which was just posted earlier today (12/1/2017) that involves a tricky input, so I'll just post the video. The input is along the likes of d, d/f,d, b, d, d/f, without going to neutral or to d/b.
New Method for Quick Crouch Dash


Q: Is there a point to Raven's backflip?
A: YES. Backflips in general crush low hits in the startup animation. Basic uses of it involve creating space when backdashing might not be enough, or to cancel out the crouch dash because you think you are going to get hit. More advanced uses of the backflip involve using it to make key character moves whiff (i.e. Dragunov iWR2, Shaheen slide/FC mixup, so on) in order to create situations where a whiff punish becomes available, or to nullify the key options of a mixup (i.e. Eddy RLX not so effective, but vs. Shaheen FC mixup and Josie CD options it's pretty good). This is not just Raven's backflip. All backflip chars (sans Leo due to his/her animation) can give it this use.

Q: Is HAZ (her "disappearing" stance) useful? For mixups? At all?
A: HAZ has some evasion properties - it nudges itself into crouch/back so it helps you dodge some things like Leo b+14 (block the 1, do HAZ, the 4 whiffs) and you can use the transitions into HAZ (12~HAZ) to trigger certain power crushes (the ones that are high) and them force them to whiff. Me and Sneaky_Coyote did a video showcasing this particular function which is easy to understand. Asides from gimmicky usage, regular HAZ use is overrated.

Using 12 HAZ to beat out high power crushes


Q: Is "White Hole" (HAZ~u, b+24~u) useful?
A: So far the only uses for White Hole that seem reasonable are adjusting the wall carry on a combo (from b+242 to b+24~u to avoid colliding with wall and getting full combo instead) and trying to bait into an action when people try to punish HAZ. Hifana is the only Raven I've seen get substantial use out of it.

Q: Are there any moves aside from the ones aforementioned that have special properties?
A: Yes! Raven's BT_SDW_LAB f+43 is special in the sense that the first hit can NOT be low parried.

To be continued.

Last edited by Gandido on Dec 1st, 2017 at 15:04

Signature "Chance favors the prepared mind." - Louis Pasteur

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Gandido
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From: USA Florida
PSN: Gandido787
#2 “Quote” Edit Post
• Combo Videos •

Combos from Floor Breaking with Grabs (her d/f+1+4 grab, and all of her side/back grabs break)
Grab Floor Break Combos


• Tutorial Videos •

Combo Alternatives for Slippery Wall Splat
Slippery Wall Alternatives


• High Level Play Match Videos •

Check out the TEKKEN RAVEN Channel at YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4...bbsd3QTA/videos

Check out TISSUEMON'S YouTube Channel. He also uses YouTube to stream although he has lately switched to Twitch if I am not mistaken - https://www.youtube.com/user/tissuemon/videos

Last edited by Gandido on Dec 3rd, 2017 at 02:48

Signature "Chance favors the prepared mind." - Louis Pasteur

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Gandido
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PSN: Gandido787
#3 “Quote” Edit Post
• CHANGE LOGS •

12/1/2017 - added a variety of videos and fixed some headers, formatting, etc.

Last edited by Gandido on Dec 1st, 2017 at 19:49

Signature "Chance favors the prepared mind." - Louis Pasteur

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WangIsKhan
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 305
From: United States
#4 “Quote” Edit Post
Thanks for this! As a new raven player this is helping a lot.
WangIsKhan
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 305
From: United States
#5 “Quote” Edit Post
I'm guessing this is the Q&A thread? If not, mods feel free to delete this.

I'm a new raven player, what are you guys using do deal with eddys relax? and what are you using for jumping characters like Akuma and Eliza? I know AOP gets bodied by df4 but thats about it. thanks for the help
Gandido
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#6 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by WangIsKhan
I'm guessing this is the Q&A thread? If not, mods feel free to delete this.

I'm a new raven player, what are you guys using do deal with eddys relax? and what are you using for jumping characters like Akuma and Eliza? I know AOP gets bodied by df4 but thats about it. thanks for the help


If questions get asked frequently, they'll be placed on the top post along with video proof if I can obtain it.

For Eddy's relax, you need to be more specific. You talking about RLX as a whole, or specific transitions and how to punish them?

Jumping chars depends on how it is that they are doing it. Akuma flip mixups or just his jump? Same goes for Eliza.
Signature "Chance favors the prepared mind." - Louis Pasteur

Evolution 2008 Tekken 5: Dark Resurrection Runner-Up
WangIsKhan
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 305
From: United States
#7 “Quote” Edit Post
@Gandido thanks for the quick reply.

Should I be asking this in a different thread than?

I'm talking relax as a whole and jumps as a whole. what options does raven have to hit relax? jumps? against xaio for example, i use way more df4 to cover AOP transitions, or if i see her go into it. I'm asking for more match up knowledge, not specific 'if eddy_akuma_eliza does x move, what do i do?" Is that more clear?
Baron West
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1137
#8 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by WangIsKhan
@Gandido thanks for the quick reply.

Should I be asking this in a different thread than?

I'm talking relax as a whole and jumps as a whole. what options does raven have to hit relax? jumps? against xaio for example, i use way more df4 to cover AOP transitions, or if i see her go into it. I'm asking for more match up knowledge, not specific 'if eddy_akuma_eliza does x move, what do i do?" Is that more clear?


We should probably have a dedicated Maven Vs thread for match-up discussion.

Anytime someone jumps I use df+3. Best case scenario it hits them(Akuma, Eliza, Geese) out of the jump. Worst case scenario it trades, and Maven recovers before the opponent does due to the flipping property of df3. I also use this against Akuma's demon flip. I like it because it's safe, and a cH launcher so there's minimal risk in throwing it out. If Maven does her b+1+3 against any of their projectiles they will not build meter.

Eliza's jump is not that scary. You can just side walk left and avoid both her heavy hits. I'm not entirely sure how to deal with a dedicated Eliza, most of the time I win by punishing her basic abused moves; 3+4, b+2,3 df+2,3 qcb3 fF+1+2 and Reppuken X Moonglide sweep.

Geese's jumping 1,3,4, and Shinpuken can be sidewalked in any direction, but his jumping 2,2 will track. It's best to just use df+3. If Geese does a Shinpuken at range 1 or closer, Maven can 3~4 punish it for a full combo. I use 4,1 as a punisher a lot against Geese.

When trying to hit Eddy out of RLX I prefer ff+4. ff+2 will also work but ff+4 can flip for a potential juggle if you counter hit him at the right time. df+2 will work at point blank range, but if she's outside of range 0 it will whiff. Depending on the distance, HAZ4 is a decent option against RLX, but not foolproof at close range.
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WangIsKhan
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 305
From: United States
#9 “Quote” Edit Post
@Baron Thank you! Thats exactly what I was asking for. I think a match up thread would be great
WangIsKhan
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 305
From: United States
#10 “Quote” Edit Post
hey yall, any tips for the fast FC crouch dash like the video posted above? I'm pretty sure goattack uses a similar method just based on how fast his come out. I'm not really sure what I should be aiming for though. any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Gandido
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PSN: Gandido787
#11 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by WangIsKhan
hey yall, any tips for the fast FC crouch dash like the video posted above? I'm pretty sure goattack uses a similar method just based on how fast his come out. I'm not really sure what I should be aiming for though. any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


There's no real shortcut to it. I personally would never use that method. Seems too easy to mess it up.
Signature "Chance favors the prepared mind." - Louis Pasteur

Evolution 2008 Tekken 5: Dark Resurrection Runner-Up
Baron West
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Posts: 1137
#12 “Quote” Edit Post
This is old, but I might as well post it for those who don't know; After blocking the first hit of Eddy's uf+3 mix-up Maven can parry both the low and mid option with b+1+3, no guess work involved.
Signature The danger's real enough. Let's not imagine it where it doesn't exist.

MmickeysS
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PSN: MmickeysS
#13 “Quote” Edit Post
Master Raven vs Lucky Chloe

1. Raven can float Chloe out of BT b+3+4, 3+4, 3+4 (whether she finishes it or not) with d/b+2,1.

2. When Chloe does d+3+4, d+3+4 (Lucky!), Raven can float her for the punish with cc d/b+2,1. The simplest alternative would be to do WS3+4. These hit Chloe 100% of the time no matter what she does after you block the last low. Just remember that d+3+4 d+3+4 is l,l,l * h,m,l and the hits are all NCc

3. b,b+2 parry completely neutralizes (punishes) her d/f+3 follow-ups

4. You cannot use her attack parries on her f+1+2 homing move, so you can't rely on parrying after her jab-string unless you use the generic parry

Master Raven VS Ling Xiaoyu

1 Punish roo kick with either d/f+2, d/b+2,1 or u/f+4
They all beat her defensive options after i.e parry, sidestep, crouch jab, AoP, reversals, spin away. (don't be slow though)

d/f+2 will launch anything that isn't a crouch or AoP

u/f+4 shines if she does a second roo kick. u/f+4 will jump over the second roo kick and you can punish that with BT3+4

u/f+4 can only be beaten with a sidestep to Raven's right. Use it if you're fighting a Ling that spams roo kicks.
She may also be able to crouch into AoP but Raven recovers fast enough to be able to block.

You can also punish with b+4,4, but what for...

Master Raven VS Jack 7

Punish Rage Art with f,f+3 or dash d/f+2,3 S!

Last edited by MmickeysS on May 27th, 2018 at 20:27

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Baron West
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#14 “Quote” Edit Post
I've had the debate with friends about whether or not Eddy is a bad match up for Maven, and after finally having an extended offline session, I'm convinced he's not. A lot of Eddy players get away with murder because of their opponent's match-up ignorance.

Someone who doesn't lab Eddy will get ran over by him, because RLX evades so many moves. There are essentially two situations where Eddy will go into RLX. The first is from neutral when they are running away and going into RLX. This is not a big deal because his longest range moves from RLX are RLX f+3+4 and 3+4. As long as one is aware of the range of these two moves RLX shouldn't be a problem when he does it from neutral, it will boil down to which player has better judgment.

The second situation where Eddy will go into RLX is when transitioning from a move. This is somewhat trickier. When Eddy transitions from a move into RLX it is very important to know how far away it will place him, because it effects the punishment options drastically. Moves like b+3,3 and uf3~d place him right in the opponents face. Moves like df3~d him at a bit of a distance so it is safer to just sidewalk, because from that range RLX f+3+4 will cut through a lot of stuff. Eddy players get a lot of damage from people attacking RLX from the wrong range with the wrong moves.

However Eddy is quite vulnerable to Maven when he uses moves that transition him into RLX and leave him at range 0. If Eddy uses uf3~d to get into RLX in Maven's face, she can simply jump over him. If he used RLX 4 or RLX 3~4 then she gets a launch with BT 3+4. If he did f+3+4 the neutral gets reset. Same with RLX 1+2,1+2_3+4_2.

Normally RLX f+3+4 is the move that makes RLX a pain to deal with. In practice mode a move like d+3 will hit Eddy out of RLX. However in a match it might whiff completely, and this is probably because Eddy did RLX f+3+4. That move causes Eddy's body to curl backwards causing d+3 to hit air before eating the RLX f+3+4. In short RLX f+3+4 causes a lot of moves to miss that would normally connect against Eddy in RLX. So when practicing against Eddy in RLX it's important to realize which moves hit normal RLX and which hit RLX f+3+4. For example Maven's df+1 will hit him out of RLX f+3+4 every time when he transitions from a move. Maven's 1+2 will usually hit Eddy out of RLX f+3+4, but it will whiff completely on RLX. Knowing the options available drastically affects the match-up.

Eddy's RLX hit box got nerfed in T7. As a result a few moves that would not hit him in T6 and TTT2 will now hit him in T7. For Maven this move is QCF1. Maven can use QCF1 liberally against Eddy and not worry about it going over his head when he transitions to RLX from neutral. The counter hit combos are pretty hefty damage and it is a good move to use against Eddy in neutral since its safe.

Eddy's b+3,3 is a powerful counter hit tool that leaves him -14 in RLX. Maven's best punish for this is b+4,4 which will put him in a mid-air S! state for a BT 3+4 follow-up. If Maven does not punish this quickly, she will only get a single b+4 which will hit Eddy on the ground. Therefor It's worth the effort to lab this and practice punishing it, because the damage/potential wall carry will win the round.

Eddy b+1+2 aka the Sao Paolo Smackdown. This move can get Eddy out of a lot of trouble when pressured and it is safe on block but Maven has some moves it won't avoid. f+4 can clip Eddy out of this move, as can 1+2, and QCF1 will often trade with it. Sometimes when doing db+2 it will cause a weird side switch with b+1+2.

Eddy's QCF3 is -13 on block. Punished by 2,4 _4,1_db+2,1. I see a lot of folks try to punish this wrong.

Eddy's d+4,3 can be punished by ws4 or cc 2,4. It's an easy cc. d+4 by itself is -16.

Eddy's df+4 is ws1 launch punishable. Blocking this can swing the match in Maven's favor.
Signature The danger's real enough. Let's not imagine it where it doesn't exist.

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