Comprehensive Guide to TTT2 Alisa

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Andreycout
Kyu
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 7
#61 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Syn_SC
Like I said Kane, I don't know about the American community, I only kept up to date with the european community really.

She's quit because she's not winning anymore. SC1 - 3 Xianghua was too good and Kayane dominated in France because of it. SCIV Xianghua is upper mid and she stops winning, then stops playing. SCV Leixia gets nerfed, she switches to to SS tier Viola who is subsequently banned in France, rages then drops the game. Seen it before, will see it again.

I'm not sure who Kayane would tag, williams sisters I would presume. I say this because she and Kalas ALWAYS end up playing the same characters and that's what he's into. :/


She's using Xiaoyu and Alisa, according to her twitter.
EndTimes
Dragon Lord
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 843
From: United States
PSN: Shottanuhmis
#62 “Quote” Edit Post
Alisa is so set in stone and this forum is extremely well laid out.
Signature Yuh know fi mek a ras clot dumpling?
Kiss mi granny mi know fi do it!
rivie2x
Expert
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 129
From: Italy
PSN: rivie2x
#63 “Quote” Edit Post
I just read the wall section and 50/50, I personally never use d+2,4 as part of a mixup at the wall, why would you use that instead of b+2>4 or b+3? They're both safe, faster and overall better imho
Demoyon
prisoner of desires
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2665
From: Philippines
#64 “Quote” Edit Post
b+2 is not safe. (-12)

b+3 is good to use there, yes. I still use d+2,4 however because I got used to it back in BR, when b+3 was not safe.
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rivie2x
Expert
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 129
From: Italy
PSN: rivie2x
#65 “Quote” Edit Post
b2 is safe because there's the follow up, no one will ever punish it, except for a fc d+1, maybe...still better than a -13 easy punish i think

Oh and about u/f+3,2 it wallsplats only if the opponent doesn't break the stun holding d

Last edited by rivie2x on Dec 16th, 2012 at 15:10

Demoyon
prisoner of desires
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2665
From: Philippines
#66 “Quote” Edit Post
The 4 is duckable, but then again, the risk/reward is very good. You have a point there.

It's a matter of conditioning the opponent to fear the follow-up 4 when he goes for the punishment. You'll have to let a few b+2 (no follow-up) fly so that he won't expect the 4 when you need it most. But, when your opponent knows that b+2>4 is hit-confirmable, there's a good chance he'll try to punish b+2.

EDIT: Yeah, holding d reduces the damage from uf+3,2 and avoids the wall splat. It also leaves you in a bad position with you behind the wall in BT. That's why I don't use uf+3,2 at the wall anymore.
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rivie2x
Expert
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 129
From: Italy
PSN: rivie2x
#67 “Quote” Edit Post
I don't think so, the choice here is all in my favour: if I do b+2 trying to hitconfirm the 4, it gets blocked, and my opponent knows that I can only delay the 4 version, he's gotta choose between:
A - "I'll punish that -12 "
B - "I'll duck the 4 and kill him"

He will most likely choose B, because if he doesn't he's the one who's risking the not hitconfirmed 4 and 100+dmg from the wall combo, for doing like 30-40 with the 12frame punish.

I personally never played against someone who even tried to punish it, it's just not a wise choice. If you're playing vs someone who thinks otherwise, it shouldn't take you long to convince him that he's wrong XD

It's not technically safe, but it is...

Plus, if I recall correctly, there's always the non delayed version that jails, so d+2,4 just becomes not useful
Demoyon
prisoner of desires
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2665
From: Philippines
#68 “Quote” Edit Post
Option B is the expected outcome, that's why b+2 becomes "safe". I do agree that it is useful at the wall, but there will be a time where you will get punished and get caught off guard. I got punished a few times trying the b+2>4 hit confirm, but made up for it with the follow-up 4 the next time I tried it.

Connecting the 4 while your opponent tries to punish will give you a wallsplat (at the wall) and a CH 4 combo (in the open), so this tactic can be used anywhere in the stage.

The non-delayed version is also duckable but it's more difficult because the 4 comes out quick.

There's also b+2,1 though if you expect the crouch jab (which "punishes" b+2 and beats b+2,4), but that's also punishable so I rarely use it outside of juggles.
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rivie2x
Expert
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 129
From: Italy
PSN: rivie2x
#69 “Quote” Edit Post
Oh ok I wasn't sure that the non-delayed version jailed cause I never use it XD
EndTimes
Dragon Lord
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 843
From: United States
PSN: Shottanuhmis
#70 “Quote” Edit Post
I love discussions like this. Lets see things that I use. d+2,4 (yes nostalgia from t6). It will catch people off guard I've caught people in tournament at mlg (in t6). b+2,4 I just it sometimes. Its just one of those things. d/b+2,2 its not a nc but I find that its a quick mid at the wall so you can do d/b+2,2 then hit confirm a 4 into GG . u/f+3,2 Amazing at the wall. You hit this YOU WIN! standing 4 is good at the wall but I rarely hit anyone with it its one of those desperation things.


0_0 u/f+3,2 stun breakable. no!!!!!!
Signature Yuh know fi mek a ras clot dumpling?
Kiss mi granny mi know fi do it!
dr4g0n
Moderator
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 653
From: Australia
#71 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by EndTimes
I love discussions like this. Lets see things that I use. d+2,4 (yes nostalgia from t6). It will catch people off guard I've caught people in tournament at mlg (in t6). b+2,4 I just it sometimes. Its just one of those things. d/b+2,2 its not a nc but I find that its a quick mid at the wall so you can do d/b+2,2 then hit confirm a 4 into GG . u/f+3,2 Amazing at the wall. You hit this YOU WIN! standing 4 is good at the wall but I rarely hit anyone with it its one of those desperation things.


0_0 u/f+3,2 stun breakable. no!!!!!!


I play as safe as possible. It's just who I am.

As such, I'm obliged to warn you that d2,4 is not safe by any means, and the reward from doing it is the same as anything else that gives a W!. Therefore, I don't use it.

db2,2 is even more useless. Punishable on block, and you don't get anything if it hits. Also I have no idea what you mean when you say you can confirm db2,2 into 4. Like...Seriously....dafuq?

uf3,2 is horribly unsafe when used against the wall. Both the uf3 itself, and the uf3,2 are punishable, and cancelling into FLY or DUAL BOOT screams "Float me for a free juggle". Also, even if the uf3 hits, the stun is breakable, so all you get is damage. Risk vs very little reward.

b2,4 is easily your best option. Easy hit confirm, safe on block, nc, always gives a W!. I don't see why you're using any other move when you have something this good. Ok, so the uf3,2 gives you a low crush, so I understand that, but still.....

4 is great. Seriously. If your opponent is button-happy, it's like a free W!. Still not better than b2,4 imo; just because it's high, and there's no way to confirm into it; but still a great move.

Oh, and uf3,2 was always breakable. If you haven't had it broken on you, then you aren't playing the right people.


Fun fact: if you land a db4 against the wall, you get a free crouch-cancel into d2,4 for guaranteed damage. If they try to get-up kick or quick-stand, then you get a full W!.

Abuse
Signature Requirements for PA: Must tie shoelaces, and give head

FC.df1+2; uf1+2

...CLOSE ENOUGH
Demoyon
prisoner of desires
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2665
From: Philippines
#72 “Quote” Edit Post
db+2,2 is NCc. (db+2),2 is +14 on hit, which gives a free 4 at the wall (and f+1+2 or f+3,2 in the open). However, just like uf+3,2, you can hold d to fall down and avoid the splat.

I'll edit the guide now, changing the d+2,4 at the wall to b+2>4 and b+3. Keep in mind that b+2 alone is punishable, but throwing out the 4 once they start punishing it should make them stop again.
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dr4g0n
Moderator
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 653
From: Australia
#73 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Demoyon
db+2,2 is NCc. (db+2),2 is +14 on hit, which gives a free 4 at the wall (and f+1+2 or f+3,2 in the open). However, just like uf+3,2, you can hold d to fall down and avoid the splat.


Cute. I didn't know that at all. Maybe I should start using that move.....
Signature Requirements for PA: Must tie shoelaces, and give head

FC.df1+2; uf1+2

...CLOSE ENOUGH
Demoyon
prisoner of desires
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2665
From: Philippines
#74 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by dr4g0n
Cute. I didn't know that at all. Maybe I should start using that move.....

Use it sparingly because it's not that good in the open. And if you do use it, I suggest finishing the whole string because db+2 alone is -18 on block while (db+2),2 is -13.

You can also CH confirm it: when db+2 lands and you see a spark, input the follow-up 2, then mash the hell out of 4 (wall) and f+1+2 (open) once the second 2 hits.
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dr4g0n
Moderator
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 653
From: Australia
#75 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Demoyon
Use it sparingly because it's not that good in the open. And if you do use it, I suggest finishing the whole string because db+2 alone is -18 on block while (db+2),2 is -13.

You can also CH confirm it: when db+2 lands and you see a spark, input the follow-up 2, then mash the hell out of 4 (wall) and f+1+2 (open) once the second 2 hits.


Got it, thanks. It shall remain a clutch move mostly for closing out rounds and stuff. Useful gimmick, though.
Signature Requirements for PA: Must tie shoelaces, and give head

FC.df1+2; uf1+2

...CLOSE ENOUGH
EndTimes
Dragon Lord
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 843
From: United States
PSN: Shottanuhmis
#76 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by dr4g0n
Got it, thanks. It shall remain a clutch move mostly for closing out rounds and stuff. Useful gimmick, though.


very insightful also d/b+2,2 maybe like 1 for 20 games its like just know its there it will catch someone off guard. I am trying to be more safer at the wall as well. b+3 has served me well. I use d/b+4 to much then then I get launched . Or I use the hopkick to twitch a reaction meh does not work as well. I even started using my wall carry's again.
PaulZ
Iron Fist God
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1062
From: USA California
PSN: PaulZ123
#77 “Quote” Edit Post
d/b2, 2 - the second hit is also delayable for even more gimicky stuff.
rivie2x
Expert
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 129
From: Italy
PSN: rivie2x
#78 “Quote” Edit Post
I personally think b+3 is the best option just because it crushes some jabs, followed by b+2,4, with the third option coming fourth XD.
I know that d/b+4 into cc d+2,4 it's guaranteed at the wall, but I always find myself doing FC d/f+1+2; I actually don't know how much less dmg that does, but it's so easy XD..not that cc d+2,4 is hard, but I'm used to FC d/f+1+2...lazy me XD
I didn't know that you can avoid the splat after (d/b+2),2 nor you can hitconfirm it...so if you do hold d, the 4 hits but does less dmg like u/f+3,2?? Damn I thought that move was useless (and not hitconfirmable not even on CH), but with the exception of the 4 and W! guaranteed at the wall, now you're telling me it's not even guaranteed ??!! That sucks. I never used it, and never will now that I know
rivie2x
Expert
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 129
From: Italy
PSN: rivie2x
#79 “Quote” Edit Post
Oh I've got a miscellaneous tip, I actually don't know if that still works in tag2, but FC d/f+1+2 will act as a launcher against Marduk's d/b+4, at least it did in t6. You just follow it up with d/f+1 and do a full combo. Can be useful I think. Less useful tip (needs to be verified in ttt2 as well), f,f+3,4 will also be a launcher against Marduk, you follow it up with d+1,WS 1,2 etc..
rivie2x
Expert
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 129
From: Italy
PSN: rivie2x
#80 “Quote” Edit Post
I also wanted to ask you guys about oki at the end of a juggle.
If you finish the juggle with f+4,1,4 or f,f+2,3 I don't think there is any oki.
But what about the other enders? Like
iWR2_iWR3,4
b+4,3
BOOT 1,2,1
f+2,3
The only thing I am sure about is that if they backroll after BOOT 1,2,1 1+2 will catch them for a full juggle. Other than that, what I usually do is dash into d/b+3_d/b+4 / f+2_d/f+1_b+3 but I don't know what's the true oki here XD

P.S. Happy Holidays to everyone if I don't log back soon

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