getting bullied by pitbulls and flying robots

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retic
1st Dan
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 14
From: Philippines
#1 “Quote” Edit Post
Hi guys,

I got into "serious" TTT2 just last weekend and I mostly main Team Ogres (A. Ogre and T. Ogre), my go to team in TTT1.

So far, I've had the most problems with characters with block strings that I can't mash a crouching 1 out. These characters include the likes of Steve, King (GASP!) and Lili. With T. Ogre, I tend to pray a lot that I dont get jabbed out of f+1+2; sometimes, I nail a CH. Sometimes, I get jabbed out.

I also have had problems with Alisa once she starts flying (could I knock her out of that move?) and Dr. B; after knocking me in a combo, he'd proceed to buttslide and for some reason, I can't recover standing up as fast as I used to. yeah...i"m a noob.

PS: The last tekken I played "seriously" was vanilla Tekken 5...so yeah, very limited MU experience.

thanks in advanced.
Signature PSN ID: retic720. I'm from the S.E. Asian region. When sending friend requests, please ID yourselves as I delete empty friend requests
TheMandarin
Mammoth
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1961
From: United States
PSN: The_Mandarin
#2 “Quote” Edit Post
I'm also new to TTT2 and pretty much, I'm having the same problem. TTT1 Ogres had such amazing defense, between bdc into f+2, u+4, amazing WS punishing and little Ogre's massive sidestep...but let's not even go there. My instinctual solution to the apparent lack of counter hit options has been to back-dash alot and play it at a distance. That playstyle seems a little limited in TTT2 however, and seems to offer less of a relative payoff. However, playing it long-range seems to provide a greater benefit for moves like True Ogre's b+2 and gives you more of a chance to rely on their solid punishment. I know that A. Ogre's infinity kicks is -8 on hit, and semi-unsafe, but at 11 frames it seems to be pretty solid for counterhits, and extremely beefy with rage. Both characters WS punishment game still seems to be pretty solid. Would people agree?

Looking forward to getting more into this game and rocking this OG team.
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Mingriah
Make TZ Great Again
Joined: Sep 2009
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From: USA Oklahoma
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#3 “Quote” Edit Post
ayo

a. orge infinite kicks are i11?

not i10 like Lee?
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Apparently Eliza's not in TTT2 because drunk Japanese can go super saiyan.

that feel when...laggy TV
TheMandarin
Mammoth
Joined: Mar 2003
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From: United States
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#4 “Quote” Edit Post
Signature TTT Casual vids
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USMCOgre
Money Inc.
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 22642
From: USA California
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#5 “Quote” Edit Post
After trying to play TO for a day or two, I'm convinced he is hot fucking garbage. Seriously one of the worst characters in the game.
Signature The search for equality is a search for the lowest common denominator...
KINGofIRONfist
Malec
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2696
From: Germany
PSN: Malec1983
#6 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by USMCOgre
After trying to play TO for a day or two, I'm convinced he is hot fucking garbage. Seriously one of the worst characters in the game.


true ogre? are your sure? why?

agreed if you mean AO
USMCOgre
Money Inc.
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 22642
From: USA California
PSN: MoneyIncUSMCOgre
#7 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by KINGofIRONfist
true ogre? are your sure? why?

agreed if you mean AO
They both suck. TO get's rushed down and raped like no other. Horrible lows. Sidestepping is impossible. Movement sucks.

I meant to post that in the TO forum lol.
Signature The search for equality is a search for the lowest common denominator...
Mr. NO!
Deity
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 654
From: Australia
#8 “Quote” Edit Post
yeah.... been playing double ogres for a while and I agree with USMC. only good thing they have is a wall combo.
KINGofIRONfist
Malec
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2696
From: Germany
PSN: Malec1983
#9 “Quote” Edit Post
playing double ogres myself and i can agree on AO he kinda sucks. but true ogre is solid imo, yeah he cant step, so what? jack cant step either and he is still good, TO movement sucks? his backdash is good. who needs lows if you got throws that are hard to see?
fc,d/f+2 is kinda of a good low, if they always duck seeing you in fc, mix it with u/f+1+2,(1+2). d/b+4 is an ok low if u need one to end the round. some random d/b+2 (uncharged version) here and there is also ok

think TO has a lot of good tools with b+2, 1,2 mega jab range, f+2, f+1+2 (decent tracking), d/f+1,(1), d/f+2, d/b+1, iws+1,2, easy whiffpunish with u/f+1+2,1+2 (hitconfirmable) or f+1+4
retic
1st Dan
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 14
From: Philippines
#10 “Quote” Edit Post
just checked back.

For a long while, I considered dropping T. Ogre and go Kuni/Feng with A. Ogre as the anchor; let's just say I failed miserably and went back with T. Ogre (as anchor). At least I got my ranked wins rising again ina steady manner. I sitll want to learn Kuni and Feng tho.

Anyhows, I always ate hopkicks becuase I just learned that they (usually) lowcrush. I'll still watch my painful matches and see how I lost. In the mean time, I found that the following helps when people get too close:

- standing jabs (1)
- db1(watch for hopkicks)
- backdash like a mofo
- b3
- db3
- d3 (A. Ogre only)
- db2 (uncharged; T. Ogre only)

Their lack of reliable crush moves hurt me a lot tho.
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Baron West
Iron Fist God
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1142
#11 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by KINGofIRONfist
playing double ogres myself and i can agree on AO he kinda sucks. but true ogre is solid imo


For me it's the exact opposite.

During long sets I find myself struggling a lot with T.Ogre. d/b+2 gets easier for opponents to read as time passes, and when he's lagging behind his best hope is either punishing a low with ws2, or connecting with a u+1+2, neither of which can be used as reliably as other juggle starters. His inability to side step, combined with his weak homing moves, make it very simple for opponents with good movement to pressure him.

I think True Ogre is easy to pick up because his game is focused on keep out and whiff punishing, rather than block punishing and juggles. The problem, for me at least, is that his juggle starters are either slow, or easily punished. Most of the juggle damage I get with T.Ogre comes from cH b+2, u+1+2, ws2, and u/b+3. The former two require good reads to use, and the latter two are strictly for punishing. None of those are useful against an opponent who has a lead on life, and is turtling.

I like u/f+1+2, f+1+2, and the reach T.Ogre has. He's intimidating near the wall as well. Overall, when I'm being creative with keep-out, he feels like a really strong character. One thing I do like about T.Ogre is that d/b+1 can bound off a lot of tag buffered launchers that most characters can't follow-up. However when someone gets in on T.Ogre, I'm forced to deal with his weak lows, poor wakes, inability to side step, and his high risk crush moves, his limitations become very clear to me. He really lacks comeback ability with his juggle starters. I think if his lows were better, it would be easier.

The difference with A.Ogre(for me) is that he has an easier time coming back when the opponent has the lead. When I'm low on life with A.Ogre, I can do a panic hopkick, or maybe test the waters with bf+4 and usually get around 90 damage with TA. Same if they don't break my waning moon. A.Ogre has great homing moves, so players can't just haphazardly side step against him. Another big difference is that A.Ogre can high/low crush better than T.Ogre. I don't feel nearly as pressured by characters like Nina/Anna with A.Ogre as I do with T.Ogre.

Even though he has respectable keep-out, A.Ogre can't just rely on f+2 and such to win. He needs to maximize his juggle starters. Not just hopkick, blazing kick, and bf+4, but going for the full damage off of cH 4, and cH d/b+2 as well. I didn't know how many matches I was throwing away by not TA off of cH 4 and cH d/b+2. Each one of those gets 90+ damage with the partners I use.

I don't see much merit in running Double Ogre, other than the Tag off of A.Ogre's 2+4 throw, which is his worst throw. Combo wise and style wise, they don't seem to compliment each other particularly well. There's some tech here and there, but nothing that makes them stand out from any other team.
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KINGofIRONfist
Malec
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2696
From: Germany
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#12 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Baron West
For me it's the exact opposite.

During long sets I find myself struggling a lot with T.Ogre. d/b+2 gets easier for opponents to read as time passes, and when he's lagging behind his best hope is either punishing a low with ws2, or connecting with a u+1+2, neither of which can be used as reliably as other juggle starters. His inability to side step, combined with his weak homing moves, make it very simple for opponents with good movement to pressure him.

I think True Ogre is easy to pick up because his game is focused on keep out and whiff punishing, rather than block punishing and juggles. The problem, for me at least, is that his juggle starters are either slow, or easily punished. Most of the juggle damage I get with T.Ogre comes from cH b+2, u+1+2, ws2, and u/b+3. The former two require good reads to use, and the latter two are strictly for punishing. None of those are useful against an opponent who has a lead on life, and is turtling.

I like u/f+1+2, f+1+2, and the reach T.Ogre has. He's intimidating near the wall as well. Overall, when I'm being creative with keep-out, he feels like a really strong character. One thing I do like about T.Ogre is that d/b+1 can bound off a lot of tag buffered launchers that most characters can't follow-up. However when someone gets in on T.Ogre, I'm forced to deal with his weak lows, poor wakes, inability to side step, and his high risk crush moves, his limitations become very clear to me. He really lacks comeback ability with his juggle starters. I think if his lows were better, it would be easier.

The difference with A.Ogre(for me) is that he has an easier time coming back when the opponent has the lead. When I'm low on life with A.Ogre, I can do a panic hopkick, or maybe test the waters with bf+4 and usually get around 90 damage with TA. Same if they don't break my waning moon. A.Ogre has great homing moves, so players can't just haphazardly side step against him. Another big difference is that A.Ogre can high/low crush better than T.Ogre. I don't feel nearly as pressured by characters like Nina/Anna with A.Ogre as I do with T.Ogre.

Even though he has respectable keep-out, A.Ogre can't just rely on f+2 and such to win. He needs to maximize his juggle starters. Not just hopkick, blazing kick, and bf+4, but going for the full damage off of cH 4, and cH d/b+2 as well. I didn't know how many matches I was throwing away by not TA off of cH 4 and cH d/b+2. Each one of those gets 90+ damage with the partners I use.

I don't see much merit in running Double Ogre, other than the Tag off of A.Ogre's 2+4 throw, which is his worst throw. Combo wise and style wise, they don't seem to compliment each other particularly well. There's some tech here and there, but nothing that makes them stand out from any other team.


For me it's the exact opposite lol xD

During long sets I find myself struggling a lot with A. Ogre and i have to do the most work with T. Ogre, cause his basic game is much more solid to me. I dont know where to put A.Ogre in, you cant just play the keep out game with him, cause his whiffpunish sucks on some range and you also cant play him in close range or as a rush down, cause he has no damn 13frame mid poking tool and his overall tracking is just not existing other then his homing moves. Yeah its true, AOs homings are much better, but i dont have to relie so hard on homings with TO in the first place, cause his moveset just track at least a little bit and with my nonstop movement its more then enough to stop happy steppers.

You use d/b+2 to much maybe? i only use 2 lows most of the time, d/b+4 which is realy solid imo and fc,d/f+2 dont go in fc and use that one all the time, cause its so easy to see, but they have to fear it, if they duck, check them with u/f+1+2 and hitconfirm the second one. d/b+2 is awesome if you use it against freeze mode opponents or with rage, just dont do it all the time, its to linear.

Its also true that TO isnt that good with juggle startes, but his strong poking and throw game and easy whiffpunish makes up for it big time. And on the beeing pressured thing... i dont feel pressured at all with TO, if my opponent is getting ballsy i just backdash the hell out of it, whats going to happen? if they try any low, most of them whiff against backdash TO with his short legs and throws also just miss, have you seen how many throws just miss True Ogre? i sometimes feel like i am cheating against throw happy people lol. Just dont get into freeze mode, be patient and if they put themselfs into disadvantage, start your offense somehow.

There is no reason to team up both ogres, but i played them in t3 and team up in ttt1 and i just love them, they are my mains no matter what.
"Combo wise and style wise, they don't seem to compliment each other particularly well" i have to disagree on that one, i think they have great combo synergy. A.Ogre is a great Point charakter in this lineup because he can kill red life out of like 90% of his juggle starter with 2,d+1+2~5 and T.Ogre can still bound with d/b+1 while other chars cant. Also TOs hcf+2:1+2 is a great damaging 2hit TA filler and allows AO to end the juggles with hunting hawk. On the wall with T.Ogre on point u can use 1+2,1+2,1+2 after a TA b+1,2~B cancel into u/b+3,2 or easy TA u/b+3,2 and it dose so much damage after any T.Ogre wallstun. Both got waning moon and get some good combos together out of their options.

Last edited by KINGofIRONfist on Dec 22nd, 2012 at 20:57

Baron West
Iron Fist God
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1142
#13 “Quote” Edit Post
lol, very different play styles.

Range wise I don't have any problems whiff punishing with A.Ogre. Normally f+2, f+1+2, d,d/b+4, f,f+3 and d+1+2 cover most whiffs. Right outside of jab range d+3+4 or 3,2 do the job. Longer range he has f+2+3, u+1+2, FCf+1, and ff+4. A.Ogre does better at a distance, but I'm comfortable close range because of his crush moves. I can deal with Nina's or Steves who get careless in their poking.

With T.Ogre, I can't high crush reliably, and I can't step around things which are normally easy to ss. In terms of his back dash it doesn't strike me as any different than A.Ogre's...maybe slightly smaller. The difference is that about 90% of T.Ogre's head doesn't have an actual hitbox, so moves pass through it harmlessly, making him appear more evasive than he is. As for d/b+2, the guys I play with are pretty good at spotting the start-up animation, especially when T.Ogre is on 1P side. I have to be sneaky to hit with it. Overall FCd/f+2 is faster and has more range, but T.Ogre's doesn't have any long range mids from full crouch. The low move I use the most is probably d/b+3.

Tag Punishing is good, and he's great close to the walls. However if I lose the lead, it can be hard to regain it if I don't have rage.


My philosophy on TA damage is that if the juggle starter is launch punishable, the TA should do at least 90 damage. If a launcher it's -13 or less, then 75-85 is ok. In that regard double Ogres do just fine, but then again a lot of character's do. Since both Ogres can stack on a lot of damage in TA, I prefer them with different partners. HCF+1:1+2 is good in TAs that have fewer hits, but less effective in longer juggles.

A.Ogre ff+3, 3,2 d+1(TA! T.Ogre HCF+1:1+2) u/f+3,4,3+4 is 101 damage. This is a little higher than most ff+3 combos with other partners, by around 4-8 points.

A.Ogre u/f+4 3,2 d+1(TA! T.Ogre HCF+1:1+2) u/f+3,4,3+4 is 85 damage if I'm not mistaken. A.Ogre can typically get this kind of damage with a partner if he uses TA.

They're good near the wall, but overall...double Ogres are more of a nostalgia team than anything else.
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KINGofIRONfist
Malec
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2696
From: Germany
PSN: Malec1983
#14 “Quote” Edit Post
and there is the problem i have with A.Ogres whiff punishment, d+3+4 range is soooo short i dont know if it is realy out of jab range. f+2 with 18 frames and f+1+2 with 17 frames are OK but still behind 16 frame u/f+1+2,1+2 from T.Ogre or 14 frame f+1+4 from T.Ogre and everything else you have listed is to slow, i mean no one you can take sersiously is going to whiff such moves, that u can whiff punish with a f+2+3 or u+1+2 and A.Ogres d+1+2 is kinda riski, the hitbox seems to be strange to me, sometimes it hits, sometimes it just whiffs.

try A.Ogre f,f+3, d/f+2, 3,2, d+1~5 T.Ogre hcf+2:1+2, A.Ogre running u/f+3,4,3+4 its 107 i think and now we are at 10-14 higher damage then most others

A.Ogre u/f+4, d/f+1, 3,2, d+1~5 T.Ogre hcf+2:1+2, A.Ogre running u/f+3,4,3+4 its 90 and i cant get more out of hopkick, at least with that team and i think its fine for a 17 damage hopkick or A.Ogre u/f+4, d/f+1, 2,d+1+2~5 T.Ogre d/b+1 B! hcf+2:1+2 for red life combo

Last edited by KINGofIRONfist on Dec 23rd, 2012 at 11:51

Morninglord
Synthetic Insanity
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#15 “Quote” Edit Post
Getting 90 out of a 17 damage launcher means your juggle did 73.
Which is pretty good.
A lot of teams have to bust a million guts to hit 90 off their hopkick, if they can even break 80.
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Baron West
Iron Fist God
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1142
#16 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by KINGofIRONfist
and there is the problem i have with A.Ogres whiff punishment, d+3+4 range is soooo short i dont know if it is realy out of jab range. f+2 with 18 frames and f+1+2 with 17 frames are OK but still behind 16 frame u/f+1+2,1+2 from T.Ogre or 14 frame f+1+4 from T.Ogre and everything else you have listed is to slow, i mean no one you can take sersiously is going to whiff such moves, that u can whiff punish with a f+2+3 or u+1+2 and A.Ogres d+1+2 is kinda riski, the hitbox seems to be strange to me, sometimes it hits, sometimes it just whiffs.

try A.Ogre f,f+3, d/f+2, 3,2, d+1~5 T.Ogre hcf+2:1+2, A.Ogre running u/f+3,4,3+4 its 107 i think and now we are at 10-14 higher damage then most others

A.Ogre u/f+4, d/f+1, 3,2, d+1~5 T.Ogre hcf+2:1+2, A.Ogre running u/f+3,4,3+4 its 90 and i cant get more out of hopkick, at least with that team and i think its fine for a 17 damage hopkick or A.Ogre u/f+4, d/f+1, 2,d+1+2~5 T.Ogre d/b+1 B! hcf+2:1+2 for red life combo


Actually, this is why I think T.Ogre is easier to pick up than A.Ogre. u/f+1+2(52 damage) and f+1+4(37 damage) are fast, mid whiff punishers that cover range 2. They are easy simple damaging options that don't require you to think much about your range. Few characters have mids that have speed and damage equal to those moves.

A.Ogre's punishers require that you know exactly where you are relative to your opponent, but the rewards are greater from connecting with d+3+4 and bf+4. People don't gravitate towards characters that demand tight spacing.

d+3+4 doesn't have a big range, but it will always connect just outside of jab range. Basically at the range where Ogre's hopkick whiffs, is where d+3+4 connects. I've been using it for whiff punishing with Jin for that exact reason since T3. For me d+3+4 was faster than trying to whiff punish with EWGF. Punishing whiffed jabs, hopkicks, and Arcblasts should be very easy with d+3+4.

d+1+2 definitely not hit at range 2. Using it at the same range where f+2 or f+1+2 would connect will definitely make it whiff. Using it around range 1.5-1.7 should be fine though.

u+1+2 IS uber slow. I personally think it's best for wakes and tag punishing. You're correct in that calling it a whiff punisher is wrong. At the same time, because of it's long range, you can catch players idle from distance or going into a stance when they shouldn't. It's best used as a long range move that can be used to close the gap. I see a lot of T.Ogre and A.Ogre players throw this because it's the strongest juggle starter. Even though it's slow enough to be floated, it's quick enough to catch players unaware, but too slow to be called a punisher.

f+2+3 and ff+4 are different. They're fast enough to catch a lot of moves on whiff. Many moves that are 100% safe on block, are not at all safe on whiff. Point in case Lars uf+4. Safe on block. On whiff f+2+3 is free. In a perfect world opponents would always block immediately after whiffed move. However since people don't intend to whiff, they can't always react fast enough to block instantly once they realize the mistake. As a result, things like whiffed hopkicks and arc blasts can be punished by slow moves like bf+4.

I've whiff punished lots of good players with ff+4, blazing kick, bf+4 and f+2+3. The latter two I use quite often. Those punishers are not comparable in speed to T.Ogre's u/f+1+2, but very few hard hitting moves are. If those whiff punishers don't work for you, then they don't work for you. I can agree to disagree because everyone plays differently. I can understand the difficulty you have whiff punishing with A.Ogre because it's so easy with T.Ogre.

A.Ogre does not have any equivalent to u/f+1+2 and f+1+4. The closest thing he has is maybe 3,2 which is 15 frames and does 39 damage, but does not KD. His 3,2 has 50% more range than T.Ogre's 3,2, hitting a little past range 1.5. While A.Ogre doesn't have long range 15 frame mids, he's got 15 frame launchers, and safe launchers. For me f+1+2 takes care of a lot of stuff.

Just as an experiment, you should try spamming bf+4 for an entire match, and see what happens. It might sound silly, but seriously give it a try. T.Ogre's u/f+1+2 is easily my favorite move of his, and one of my top 3 moves. However I wouldn't trade it for A.Ogre's bf+4. Hitting with just one can easily swing the match towards your favor. Since it's safe, there's not much to worry about except being stepped.


As for the combos...

That first combo is pretty sick damage wise, but doesn't work on females and smalls consistently. It also has consistency issues against mid-sized characters. It's great against bigs though.

The hopkick combo on the other hand, is pure evil. 90 damage from a hopkick is really heavy damage considering they're only -13 on block. That by itself is definitely a reason to play double Ogres.

A.Ogre uf+4 2,d+1+2~5 Angel ff+3,4~5(TA! A.Ogre uf+3,4,3+4) 1+2 is 89 damage.

A.Ogre uf+4 2,d+1+2~5 Jinpachi d/f+3,1(TA! A.Ogre uf+3,4,3+4) run 2+4 is 89 damage.

A.Ogre uf+4 2,d+1+2~5 Armor King d+2 (TA! A.Ogre uf+3,4,3+4) ISW is 87 damage.

A.Ogre uf+4 2,d+1+2~5 Jun f+3,f+1+2,1+2~5(TA! A.Ogre uf+3,4,3+4) running 3 is 87 damage.

Morninglord A.Ogre should always be able to get over 80 off a hopkick with Tag Assault. Even with partners who aren't good at it;

A.Ogre uf+4 2,d+1+2~5 Xiao ff+1+2,1+2~5(TA! A.Ogre uf+3,4+3+4) run db+2 83 damage.

All those combos work on female characters. I'd list more, but I can't remember the damage off the top of my head.

Last edited by Baron West on Dec 24th, 2012 at 06:11

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Morninglord
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#17 “Quote” Edit Post
You should whiff punish lars uf+4 with blazing kick. You have enough time to make a cup of tea then come back and blazing kick Lars uf+4 on whiff.

I know A.Ogre gets good damage off his hopkick. I meant in comparison to the rest of the cast and other teams. The point I wanted people to take away was "that is very good damage" and I wasn't implying anything else.

Incidentally A.Ogre Lars get 93 from A.Ogre's hopkick.

Last edited by Morninglord on Dec 24th, 2012 at 01:45

Signature Zhan: The real enemy is yourself.
Baron West
Iron Fist God
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1142
#18 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Morninglord
You should whiff punish lars uf+4 with blazing kick. You have enough time to make a cup of tea then come back and blazing kick Lars uf+4 on whiff.

I know A.Ogre gets good damage off his hopkick. I meant in comparison to the rest of the cast and other teams. The point I wanted people to take away was "that is very good damage" and I wasn't implying anything else.

Incidentally A.Ogre Lars get 93 from A.Ogre's hopkick.


Ah, I see. Yes indeed, Ogre's hopkick damage is top tier with Tag Assault compared to the rest of the cast.

Launchers are always the best punish. I was just pointing out that seemingly safe moves are pretty free on whiff. Although I'm not gonna lie, f+2+3 with rage is pretty nice.

Lars gets crazy damage with just about everyone. I think that the only other hopkick combo with A.Ogre that does 93 is finishing off the Angel combo with cd1~uf instead of the laser. I think it only works on bigs though, because I don't have the execution to pull it off with any kind of consistency.
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Morninglord
Synthetic Insanity
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#19 “Quote” Edit Post
It's actually possible to get at least one more hit somewhere in his juggle and still have the uf+3,4,3+4 land + isw at the end, making it something like 95-96 considering juggle scaling on the uf3,4,3+4 after that many hits.

I hit it exactly once on Lars size. I never hit it again in ten minutes of experimenting. So it's not anything reliable.

However:

Lars uf+4~5 A Ogre 2,d+1+2~5 Lars fb21~5 A Ogre uf+3,4,3+4 Lars isw = 104

Most -9 or more moves are actually terrible on whiff. Like -20 min and most of the time -30 or more depending on how much of that -9 is based on opponents not being able to move because of block stun.

Similar to how Jin's parry works by avoiding block stun, making safe moves d+3+4 able, only without the parry animation frames.

Funnily enough quite a few stagger on block lows are fairly safe on whiff, which is why they made them stagger probably. Lars db+4 recovers extremely safe on whiff. I will throw this out as a bait with no chance of it connecting at range 3 or 4 knowing that I can ws2 before they can react and do anything 80-90% of the time.

Whiff punishing is one of my strong points. Along with experience with i15 and i16 whiff punishers I've found a great many moves are easily able to be whiff punished with Lars uf+4 which is i25. Blazing kick is less than that, so with A Ogre and Lee/Violet I try to react to anything I would do uf+4 with Lars with BK.

Random trivia: dick punches are launch whiff punishable. If anyone ever whiffs a FC d+1 or FC d+2 in your face you should launch them. I see a lot of people give away launch when that happens. I try to watch out for it. I don't think they're slow enough to BK though. Possibly a very fast bf+4?
Definitely d+3+4 that shit with A Ogre if they whiff right in front of you.
Signature Zhan: The real enemy is yourself.
Icege
iku iku ikuuu
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 8189
From: USA South Carolina
PSN: Icege-_-
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#20 “Quote” Edit Post
u/f+4
Signature [04:25] WayGamble: hey hey hey
[04:25] WayGamble: i dont talk shit to you cuz you dont put yeast in your bread now do i?
[04:25] Icege:
[04:25] TekkenJam: jew

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