Harada's philosophy

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ICEYOUCOLD
Sage
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 474
#1 “Quote” Edit Post
So what made Harada change his mind about free legacy characters? What happened to his philosophy about characters being quintessential "Chess Pieces". Has anyone called him out on this yet?
Signature Mains: Kazuya, Jin, Devil Jin, Asuka

DinoTheDonDaDa
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#2 “Quote” Edit Post
If u donít have the money, pretend itís just an illusion
SilverSoul
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#3 “Quote” Edit Post
Times change, this is just good for the game, keeps it alive. Things that were right then are not right anymore, we all want tekken to succeed right?, well this is the way now, you need to keep updating.
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dodecadozen
Iron Fist God
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Posts: 1672
#4 “Quote” Edit Post
No idea if anyone's directly called him out on twitter, but I see a few people pop up every now and then complaining about this. And more people rushing to defend Harada, as if it was some noble thing.

Game companies want to make more money. Simple as that.

For all we know, lei, anna etc could've been in development since the start, but namco may have decided to hold off on releasing them for various reasons. When people started making a huge noise about them, namco may have seen the exploit potential and... kaching, season pass 2.
Signature Bring back [kunimitsu] for T7!
PhineBuyM3
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#5 “Quote” Edit Post
Tekken fanboys are critical of scummy industry practices until Tekken does it and then the capes start flapping.
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ICEYOUCOLD
Sage
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 474
#6 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by dodecadozen
No idea if anyone's directly called him out on twitter, but I see a few people pop up every now and then complaining about this. And more people rushing to defend Harada, as if it was some noble thing.

Game companies want to make more money. Simple as that.

For all we know, lei, anna etc could've been in development since the start, but namco may have decided to hold off on releasing them for various reasons. When people started making a huge noise about them, namco may have seen the exploit potential and... kaching, season pass 2.


Suits forced Harada perhaps?
Signature Mains: Kazuya, Jin, Devil Jin, Asuka

SSfox
Foxstepman
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3269
#7 “Quote” Edit Post
He didn't. Characters have never been free in Tekken anyway, was just an illusion that Harada succeed to make you believe on.

Lili and Dragunov in DR were Free? Hell NOT they weren't. You had to pay a whole new game and even a new console, so they were Wayyyyyyyyyy more expansive than the usual DLC characters to any other game.

Alisa and Lars in 6BR, Not free, you had to wait 2 years, so that wasn't free.

TTT2 Console characters, not free either, the game was Arcade first then it added more character to console version, it's just an usual thing when a game hit a plateform after years being on another platform, and most characters were clones so really, i mean i appreciate it, i really do, but nothing that deserve praising like many weebs were acting to that.


You want Lei and Anna for Free? Yes Namco could definitely has done this, but there would have been a price, they would release them on Arcade first for a year or more then they hit console after and for free, now the question is would you prefer this over the actual model? Not me personally, and i think that's the same for many other Tekken players.

Last edited by SSfox on Sep 8th, 2018 at 09:52

M0B
War Lord
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 749
From: Germany
#8 “Quote” Edit Post
To be fair, he didn't even want to release DR and it only got pushed due to demand. Everything else never had dlc and they simply wasted time on dumb shit. I'm not gonna tell why T6 took so long for console release, cause there still might be people who don't know and it's better not to know lol.

It's fine that they release dlc after so many years with a free balance update. I'm missing a few new stages or remakes and i'd like to lab the new characters without buying them (or illegal download like i'll have to do now).
Climbing Dragon
Iron Fist God
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1510
#9 “Quote” Edit Post
The point is that Harada said they would be free yet that never seemed to be the intention. He shouldn't say stupid shit like that.
Signature Originally posted by MysticwinD
Fixed tier list for Lili players only needs 2 tiers, one tier with all the chars better than Lili and a second one with just Lili.
Ashesfall
Fighter
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3140
From: Germany
#10 “Quote” Edit Post
my view
without his mind changed, we would have not gotten season 2 end of story.
and if no one is buying season 2, season 3 support wont happen

i wanted more support and content in the future and i got it with season 2
and if you think i am a holy guy praising all they do, i can just say, no i am not
(i still would delete like 70% of items in customization - the good story, almost no one uses stupid ass outfits - shout outs to the community not falling for the trash namco delivered there ^^)
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dodecadozen
Iron Fist God
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#11 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by SSfox
He didn't. Characters have never been free in Tekken anyway, was just an illusion that Harada succeed to make you believe on.

For a console user, they have always been free. And that's teh bottom line.

Lili and Dragunov in DR were Free? Hell NOT they weren't. You had to pay a whole new game and even a new console, so they were Wayyyyyyyyyy more expansive than the usual DLC characters to any other game.

Lili and Dragunov were BRAND NEW characters. We got a nicely reworked Armor King too. And Jinpachi for whatever that was worth. On top of that, there were a few new stages, reworked stages with different music, HD graphics for the PS3, lots of updates to the balance and movelists, reworked customization, and some more stuff.... oh, yeah, the online. And it wasn't even a full priced game. Now THAT was a good Season 2.

Alisa and Lars in 6BR, Not free, you had to wait 2 years, so that wasn't free.

TTT2 Console characters, not free either, the game was Arcade first then it added more character to console version, it's just an usual thing when a game hit a plateform after years being on another platform, and most characters were clones so really, i mean i appreciate it, i really do, but nothing that deserve praising like many weebs were acting to that.


Bottom line is: Regardless of the wait, console users did not have to pay more than the standard price for the FULL game for T6 and Tag2. Tekken 7 though... not only did we have to wait through the arcade cycle, we also did not get a complete game at launch. And on top of that, Season1 and Season2 combined do not offer the same value that DR did. Moreover, combined, they cost around $60 themselves.


Originally posted by Ashesfall
without his mind changed, we would have not gotten season 2 end of story.
and if no one is buying season 2, season 3 support wont happen

Don't get me wrong man... I want my favourite fighting game to do well too. But all this shit leaves a bad aftertaste. So, I'm gonna wait it all out and see what happens.

Last edited by dodecadozen on Sep 8th, 2018 at 10:42

Signature Bring back [kunimitsu] for T7!
Ashesfall
Fighter
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From: Germany
#12 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by dodecadozen
Season1 and Season2 combined do not offer the same value that DR did.

you honestly believe that?

and please lets not forget season 2 is just 2 days old
4 more characters are guaranteed and i could swear season 2 will get 2 new maps
(not to forget that i am one of those future negan mains lol)

ps: tekken bowling with the pricetag was just not what "tekken" fans really wanted
(therefore a lot of bad PR when it comes to user "reviews", they will learn, i hope)
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SSfox
Foxstepman
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3269
#13 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by dodecadozen
For a console user, they have always been free. And that's teh bottom line.


Just in your imagination, and many others lol. An imagination cooked by Bambai so they could get away with their aweful Arcade Model.




Originally posted by dodecadozen
Lili and Dragunov were BRAND NEW characters. We got a nicely reworked Armor King too. And Jinpachi for whatever that was worth. On top of that, there were a few new stages, reworked stages with different music, HD graphics for the PS3, lots of updates to the balance and movelists, reworked customization, and some more stuff.... oh, yeah, the online. And it wasn't even a full priced game. Now THAT was a good Season 2.


For 640 bucks, only... (SSF4 added almost same for ... 40 bucks, MKXL = 20 bucks, T7 Season 2 30 bucks).

But yeah if you want to believe that what they did with DR update was a better business model, oh well.



Originally posted by dodecadozen Bottom line is: Regardless of the wait, console users did not have to pay more than the standard price for the FULL game for T6 and Tag2. Tekken 7 though... .


That's true, but for me wait is also a price. (How the hell waiting isn't a price? especially if you consider yourself as a Fan?)

The day they release something for free and new that weren't on another plateform already, then i would called it FREE.

Season 2 balance patch, now that's free for me, because it's new and has never been on any other platform, and it's free. as opposite DR, BR and FR weren't free.


Originally posted by dodecadozen ... not only did we have to wait through the arcade cycle, we also did not get a complete game at launch. And on top of that, Season1 and Season2 combined do not offer the same value that DR did. Moreover, combined, they cost around $60 themselves.


We've already talked and agreed (for the most part at least) about how Season 1 was a Rip Off, no need to go back to this topic.

Now that's something i agree with, DR update was just godlike (just another extra reason i hated bamco to not releasing it on PS2)

- New customization (And all unique for the mother of LOVE)
- New Stages
- New alternate stages of all Vanilla stages
- Huge Balance patch
- New moves for all Characters.
- 3 New characters. (4 If you want to count Jinpachi)

Now personally i'd rather not compare T7 S2 to DR update, since we didn't even get the DR update anyway, while we actually got T7 S2, and that is really a great update imo.

Like you really expected something similar to DR by red Namco from Orange Bambai? i'm actually even surprise by T7 S2, i think they did great with it, could it been better? sure as always, but let's not shit on the new great stuffs and just be glad we get the good things that Bambai deliver, especially since it's been super rare they do such in those last years, especially for consoles version.


Originally posted by dodecadozen Don't get me wrong man... I want my favourite fighting game to do well too. But all this shit leaves a bad aftertaste. So, I'm gonna wait it all out and see what happens.


Here's the thing, you are comparing a lot to other Updates, and you still don't realize that Bandai Namco isn't the old school godlike Namco with a same level of passion, i mean i can still see a level of passion, but not just as the level of the true Old School Red Namco. I'm already hella surprise about T7 S2 that imo is awesome , not as awesome as DR again YES, but still really really great, huge balance patch, Anna, Lei and 3 other legacy, and even Negan may end being Cool.

i think you should just judge things as they are. I don't think anyone here don't want a DR level update, but let's just appreciate things, especially since it's a huge improvement over what they've done lastly.

Last edited by SSfox on Sep 8th, 2018 at 12:58

dodecadozen
Iron Fist God
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1672
#14 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by SSfox
Just in your imagination, and many others lol. An imagination cooked by Bambai so they could get away with their aweful Arcade Model.

Bru, are you saying they secretly pickpocketed me to fund their arcade years and I still don't know about it to this day? Or did they funnel some of my government pension funds into their accounts?

Please, let's be realistic. You're in Algeria, I'm in India. Living in the countries that we do, there is no way we get access to the latest tekken arcade machines as they release. The best my local arcades can do is Tekken4. We do not go to the arcades to give business to their arcade model because we do not have those games where we live.

Apart from Japan, Korea and a few other SE Asian countries, the majority of tekken fans do not play in the arcades. So, the only time the majority spend money for Tekken is when they release it on console.

So, I wanna point out that it's all in YOUR imagination.


For 640 bucks, only... (SSF4 added almost same for ... 40 bucks, MKXL = 20 bucks, T7 Season 2 30 bucks).

But yeah if you want to believe that what they did with DR update was a better business model, oh well.

Again, please. Are you saying people who bought a PS3 at the time bought it only for Tekken5DR and played nothing else? You know what, going by those calculations my PC cost me upwards of $1500 to put together. I guess I paid over $1600 for Tekken7 which makes it the most expensive Tekken I've ever bought. Now I really feel sorry for people with $10000 PCs. Namco are such evil scamsters with the hidden costs.


That's true, but for me wait is also a price. (How the hell waiting isn't a price? especially if you consider yourself as a Fan?)

Tell me, were you fan enough to travel to Japan or America to play T7 in the arcades on release? I'll admit that I didn't travel to korea to play it even though I'm relatively close by. So, if we guage our fandom by this, we're pathetic, right? Because our fandom kicks in only when it's convenient to enjoy the game, right?

So, that's not even an arguement.


The day they release something for free and new that weren't on another plateform already, then i would called it FREE.

Season 2 blanace patch, now that's free for me, because it's new and has never been on any other platform, and it's free. as opposite DR, BR and FR weren't free.

First of all, you call something free when you don't have to pay for it. Full stop. Period. Whatever.

Fine. DR was not free. But did we get 2 console releases for Tekken6? No. We only paid $60 once. Same with Tag2. So, unless you went to the arcades to play, you did not pay for the game more than once.

Your point is irrelevant.


Now personally i'd rather not compare T7 S2 to DR update, since we didn't even get the DR update anyway, while we actually got T7 S2, and that is really a great update imo.


Like you really expected something similar to DR by red Namco from Orange Bambai? i'm actually even surprise by T7 S2, i think they did great with it, could it been better? sure as always, but let's not shit on the new great stuffs and just be glad we get the good things that Bambai deliver, especially since it's been super rare they do such in those last years, especially for consoles version.

First of all I did not mention anything about my expectations. Nor did I start comparing with DR. Man, you were the one who started with the comparisons saying DR did this, BR did that. I set you straight there.

I don't even understand why you're praising S2. T7 is a subpar product compared to previous games. We all know why. New characters are cool and the balance changes are awesome and shit... BUT... Season 2 does not do much to address the factors that make the game subpar. They could've easily made the game a whole lot better with minimal investment. Yet they didnt. Maybe it's just me but I'm not gonna be impressed if all they do is introduce 5 old characters and charge me for it, no matter how much I want those.

Here's the thing, you are comparing a lot to other Updates

i think you should just judge things as they are. I don't think anyone here don't want a DR level update, but let's just appreciate things, especially since it's a huge improvement over what they've done lastly.

Man, all I was doing was pointing out how your comparison was bad.



------------
-----------

Originally posted by Ashesfall
you honestly believe that?

and please lets not forget season 2 is just 2 days old
4 more characters are guaranteed and i could swear season 2 will get 2 new maps
(not to forget that i am one of those future negan mains lol)


It's not about me believing. It's pretty obvious to see, isn't it? I'd love to be shown otherwise.

Because S1 was a bunch of costumes, bowling, Noctis and Geese for $25 or something. S2 for $30 is balance patch and 5 legacy characters (all of which I'll be interested in), Negan (whom I don't give a duck about) and 1 stage (stages are always good). T7 beats DR in character count only, but at $40 more.

No idea where you're getting the info that it's 2 stages.

Last edited by dodecadozen on Sep 8th, 2018 at 13:32

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SSfox
Foxstepman
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#15 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by dodecadozen
Bru, are you saying they secretly pickpocketed me to fund their arcade years and I still don't know about it to this day? Or did they funnel some of my government pension funds into their accounts?

Please, let's be realistic. You're in Algeria, I'm in India. Living in the countries that we do, there is no way we get access to the latest tekken arcade machines as they release. The best my local arcades can do is Tekken4. We do not go to the arcades to give business to their arcade model because we do not have those games where we live.

Apart from Japan, Korea and a few other SE Asian countries, the majority of tekken fans do not play in the arcades. So, the only time the majority spend money for Tekken is when they release it on console.

So, I wanna point out that it's all in YOUR imagination.


I still stand out by this.

Do people said when NG2 Sigma hit PS3 "oh wow there are a lot of free things", nope.

Do people say Tomb Raider PS4 has free DLC? nope

Because it's just logic.


Originally posted by dodecadozen


Again, please. Are you saying people who bought a PS3 at the time bought it only for Tekken5DR and played nothing else? You know what, going by those calculations my PC cost me upwards of $1500 to put together. I guess I paid over $1600 for Tekken7 which makes it the most expensive Tekken I've ever bought. Now I really feel sorry for people with $10000 PCs. Namco are such evil scamsters with the hidden costs.



What i say is that, as a Tekken fan who wanted like crazy to experiment T5DR, then i had to spent 640 bucks.

People that loved SF4 and wanted to go up to SSF4 had to spend 40 bucks, and now the people that want Full T7 Season 2 would need to spend 30 bucks, and even Free if you aren't interested to play Lei and Anna.

You see? 640 bucks to 30-40, you do realize the difference right?


Fine. DR was not free. But did we get 2 console releases for Tekken6? No. We only paid $60 once. Same with Tag2. So, unless you went to the arcades to play, you did not pay for the game more than once.


But the game was still 2 years arcade exclusive too, and so felt a bit old to say the least, for me this is also a price and that's way more disgusting that the 30 bucks that annoy much, T6 it didn't taste like T5 or 4 where the games were truly hot.

Of course if this was a Single Player only game, it may have been different. Example, i'm huge Dragon Quest fan, usually the games take a while to come to West after Japan, it's still annoying tbh, but really nothing comparable to Tekken, cause i won't watch the game on youtube anyway expect the official trailers (why would you do that for a Solo game?). Basically in DQ case the wait can be annoying but it's way easier to wait, and you're not spoiled and the game will still feel new.


Of course there is the possibility that you act that Tekken Arcade don't exist, so you won't watch footages, but that's basically asking for a Tekken fan ot be a Tekken fan.


First of all, you call something free when you don't have to pay for it. Full stop. Period. Whatever.


That's your opinion, for me wait is also a price. If waiting wasn't a price (especially if you're a fan), so why hell not release a new Tekken on Arcade only for 10 years, and then we got a game with 50 characters, thousands of unique costumes and cie, since it will be free anyway, and the wait don't seem to bother you much lol

Hey let's say, for a more understandable picture, you're super hungry, you go to the guy and ask him to sell you one Hotdog, he will tel you: " Bro, you know what? If you wait until tomorrow i'll give you the hotdog for free, and with even some extra salads. But if you really want it now, you gotta pay for it like all the others, what will you choose?"

Right?

Last edited by SSfox on Sep 8th, 2018 at 17:17

DG.PRO
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Posts: 431
#16 “Quote” Edit Post
That's because video games publishers are not a charity company.adding new characters require lots of balancing and making improved character models requires much more work than making a PS1 level character model.

This business model is actually much better than the business model of releasing the game on consoles without any DLCs.(Since we can only buy the characters that we actually play as and as a result they can give the game more post launch support)

If the characters were free then you should expect to get a worse quality character than what we got.(Less customization , broken gameplay , less detailed character model etc)

And at least the community won't be divided for this update compare to DR or expansions for SF.(Since you can play the improved version of the game without buying the new characters)
PhineBuyM3
Fujin
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 592
From: USA Texas
#17 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by DG.PRO
This business model is actually much better than the business model of releasing the game on consoles without any DLCs"


No it ain't. This has only resulted in half assed products.
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DG.PRO
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Posts: 431
#18 “Quote” Edit Post
If they didn't plan to add DLCs we would have get the console version in mid 2018.(Which is far worse than the DLCs)
Ashesfall
Fighter
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3140
From: Germany
#19 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by dodecadozen
No idea where you're getting the info that it's 2 stages.

just speculating and hoping like always

there are 4 stage slots free and i feel if season 2 runs well season 3 could be possible
i also think season 3 would be the last season for tekken7
(should also by the time where SF5 support will end - capcom officially said once they want to support the game till 2020)

season 2 2 stages
season 3 2 stages

complete stage select screen

there you have my theory
(chances i am right are very slim but what ever ^^)

with the character screen i can even start to hope for ancient ogre and jinpatchi lol
(besides bruce, marduk, kunimitsu and armor king)
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DinoTheDonDaDa
Tekken Lord Black
Joined: Jul 2014
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#20 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by DG.PRO
That's because video games publishers are not a charity company.adding new characters require lots of balancing and making improved character models requires much more work than making a PS1 level character model.

This business model is actually much better than the business model of releasing the game on consoles without any DLCs.(Since we can only buy the characters that we actually play as and as a result they can give the game more post launch support)

If the characters were free then you should expect to get a worse quality character than what we got.(Less customization , broken gameplay , less detailed character model etc)

And at least the community won't be divided for this update compare to DR or expansions for SF.(Since you can play the improved version of the game without buying the new characters)


Pretty much..... funny, once upon a time, members of this board complained 40+ characters was a hinderance to newcomers enjoying the game.... TTT2 roster was blame for the franchise demise, but now they want a TTT2 roster free of charge, Tekken Force, and not one instance of lag

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