MIGUEL: Next Level of Manliness [TTT2 Info]

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Asuka_cherrie
lars:u whiff i laugh
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2411
From: Singapore
#61 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by zachhulk
Jez, u/f+3 from savage doesn't launch anymore? I sure hope that they give a buff to some other mid move to launch from that stance and not the d/f+2 move only.

Any idea on how many - frames Mig's d/f+1 is now?
His whole game is that which really stinks. Sounds like a ton of nerfing on the manly man.


Mig nerfed? You cereal? Even with the addition of f2, f1+2 buffed on it's range(no more punishing woes anymore), a charge that ostensibly crushes high giving only -3 on block(f2+3), uf1 being mid now, more strings that enters into SAV and last but not least a safe tracking move that launches on NH.

Can't care less about df1 being -2 seriously. And SAV uf3 wasn't THAT useful in BR.

This manly Spaniard will definitely be bandwagoned during the early stages of TT2.
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zachhulk
2nd Dan
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 20
From: USA Pennsylvania
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#62 “Quote” Edit Post
Lowering frames on block for d/f1 and taking out u/f3 which was his quickest launcher out of savage is a nerf in my book. I liked that move after a successful hit on d/f+1 along with d+4,3 for a nice mix up that had to be blocked.

Aren't those 2 punishing moves 14 and 15 frames? If so, he still has the same basic problem of punishing hopkicks with anything other than a generic 4 of jabs. Do you know if that 14 frame can hit King's fc d/f+2 because I couldn't punish that ever with Miguel no matter what I tried? The bull charge move looks like it is very side steppable, but the frames are pretty nice on it. The f,f3 looks pretty useful, but I'm not a huge fan of high moves that take a bit to develop.
Jordyce
Planet Robobear
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4711
From: New Zealand
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#63 “Quote” Edit Post
SAV u/f+3 was not a particularly good move. May have been the fastest launcher, but it had a crappy hitbox, bad tracking and was useless in most SAV situations. SAV d/f+2 may be slightly slower and launch punishable, but it crushes like a beast, hits grounded and has better range all round.

d/f+1 losing frames means he can now parry jabs with SAV b+2, couldn't do that in BR.

f+1+2 can now punish Jack's d/f+2. And heaps of characters have problem with King's FC d/f+2, that was never a Miguel-specific problem, he never really had range problems at 14 frames with d/f+4,1~F.

Overall, Miguel is buffed, but not majorly.
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The Game
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#64 “Quote” Edit Post
I only used sav u/f3 i juggles. Not a total loss.
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I'm new to the game but i find that the best way to win is to use f+3 then keep on using 3+4, f+1+2 until there dead.
The Game
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#65 “Quote” Edit Post
There's a patch update, apparently they patched Miguel's tackle. Dunno what exactly they did but it doesnt sound good.
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I'm new to the game but i find that the best way to win is to use f+3 then keep on using 3+4, f+1+2 until there dead.
Crimzon
War Lord
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 742
From: USA Hawaii
PSN: Crimzon808
#66 “Quote” Edit Post
Things I've noticed so far:

Seems like ch Sav d/f+1 crumpled for a possible combo followup? I'll try reproducing this tonight when I go to play.

d/f+1,1, ch2 doesn't crumple stun for a combo anymore.

Intangibly it feels like it takes a little longer to transition into savage. I dropped a few combos because d/f+1 ~sav d/f+1 came out as d/f+1, d/f+1. Need to add a small delay before the sav d/f+1.

Pushback after d/f+1+2 throw is further now.

Anything you guys want me to test while its here?
The Game
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#67 “Quote” Edit Post
the transition is the same. Do you play pad or stick?

ff2,2 end is definitely BOSS. Definitely something every miguel player should end off a long juggle since the carry is HUGE.
Signature <pukey>: ddp had a better flair
Champion Law of America
Team USA
Top Tier DJ strat:
I'm new to the game but i find that the best way to win is to use f+3 then keep on using 3+4, f+1+2 until there dead.
eX3Me
Virtuoso
Joined: Jul 2010
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From: Philippines
#68 “Quote” Edit Post
kickass miguel.. just a few more tools like good throws that turn into juggle and quicker tracking moves will make miguel a top tier character..
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The Game
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#69 “Quote” Edit Post
ff3 is more than enough lol.
Signature <pukey>: ddp had a better flair
Champion Law of America
Team USA
Top Tier DJ strat:
I'm new to the game but i find that the best way to win is to use f+3 then keep on using 3+4, f+1+2 until there dead.
King_2nd
Lone Wolf
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 323
#70 “Quote” Edit Post
http://youtu.be/8vXlvXQSpZk?t=53s
df1+2~5 to bob's u/f1+2 (i think??) nice guessing game after the throw. Anyone knows the frames for the incoming char after the throw?

Thanks in advance,

K2
Lazy Dave
Arbiter of Fashion
Joined: Mar 2009
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From: Australia
PSN: dale6994
#71 “Quote” Edit Post
Just thought I'd put in my two cents here.

Playing around with Miguel's new moves atm. f2+3 is great. It seems to crush highs quite well and it's properties are favourable.

I keep using ff 2,1 out of habit, but ff 2,2 is definitely the way to go in every single damage dealing situation. ff 2,1 looks like it is to be reserved for mindgames, but that would only make sense if it were now safe/plus frames on block. Still need to test that.

ff 3 is not as usable as it sounds on paper. The start up animation is quite slow. It looks maybe 1 or 2 frames slower than Law's b3 which is probably only due to the need for a ff input. People might be tempted to duck it in reaction to the ff twitch, which allows for a ff 2 mixup/mindgame, but seeing as ff 3 is significantly negative on block, it's probably not worth it. Just block it and then reverse the momentum.

f4 for tracking purposes is probably still the way to go here. It's no longer HC but you can kinda react to the twitch of their movement, which is probably worth the risk unless they're gods of SS cancel.

No guaranteed db4 after 2+4 grab is disgusting. But the oki mindgame is still intact. If you can get them to fear that, then you can put db4 and d 3 back into play.

What I most keen on testing is just how many -14 moves Miguel can now reach with f 1+2.

Also, probably not the right place to ask this, but thread availability is short atm, but Miguel/Lars juggle synergy seems quite poor. If anyone's figured anything out, share the love.
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Toshinjin
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Joined: Jul 2000
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#72 “Quote” Edit Post
*nevermind.

Last edited by Toshinjin on Dec 14th, 2011 at 02:40

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Asuka_cherrie
lars:u whiff i laugh
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2411
From: Singapore
#73 “Quote” Edit Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCgB...feature=related

4:08

is that a new move for miguel or a generic new move for majority of the cast? what's the notation for it? i have the impression that there are several other characters sharing the same move, not sure if they are the same or just similar. please clarify.

also, i got my hands on ttt2 the previous weekend and here are some of my thoughts on him.

f2+3 is definitely a beast. it's a little like yoshi's f3+4 in dr except that it's safe and leaves you for further oki/techtrap games on hit. the start up is relatively fast given the range it provides and it is best used when your opponent is vulnerable when tagging in from a distance, d1+2 is an alternative if your opponent is too far away for you to be running in for a df2,1.

as for it's properties on block, having tested it a couple of times, i am pretty sure it leaves you in -6 or more. it is not advisable that you attempt a sidestep after it, the animation is deceiving. but be mindful that i am still foreign to it's unusual animation and not know the exact moment it recovers for me to initate my sidestep. will try this weekend once more.

but really, f2+3 as an addition to miguel's movelist is too good to be true.

ff3 is not as good as it sounds. like someone else mentioned, the start up is too slow and isn't reliable catching opponents who knows when to ss and when to stop. it's only effective in snaring opponents that abuses their lateral movement. the animation that it has on block is also a give away that the move is terrible on block. but given it's range, i guess it can be best used in catching whiffs and characters that just tagged in.

ff22 is only great in juggles. the animation for ff22~d feels retarded and can be interrupted easily. 1+2,1+2~d feels like a better shenanigan. will try to experiment with it soon.

the property changes to CH f2 hardly improves his game. the range is still pathetic. i don't expect anybody to be using this move to alter his gameplay dramatically.

as for miguel being a tag partner in juggles, i am having problems doing sav f121 right after bound, it is harder than it sounds. 5~df21 is very easy to do but does shitty damage. apparently it's possible to do 5~ ssr df41~f~savf121 if you bound after 3 moves or less. help me did it once on knee. will try this weekend. also, looking at 3minute mark of the vid above ws222 works as a juggle connector right after bound.

all in all miguel is slightly buffed from BR, and 80% of credit goes to f2+3.

edit

http://www.youtube.com/user/TekkenR...h/0/bOJzRtq8BWo

after watch this i am certain that ssr ff22 is miguel's most reliable move after bound. doesn't hit your opponent too far back and does decent damage. i am guessing the ssr is to keep your opponent aligned after tagging out.

Last edited by Asuka_cherrie on Dec 14th, 2011 at 11:35

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Lazy Dave
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#74 “Quote” Edit Post
More lab work:

Yep, confirmed that f2 is still pretty useless. It needs to be a faster move for it to be of any use.

after 2+4, if they backroll, d2 seems easier to connect now. Not sure what to attribute this to.

Just in case anyone else hasn't realised, the new juggle is launch, df1 SAV, uf 3 as opposed to the old df1 SAV, df1. The rest of the juggle is the same.

Miguel as tag assault character. Best to bound early with your main, and once Miguel comes in, do df1 SAV 1,2, delay, 1. Good wall carry for those that have none. Note that you need to bound quite early in most cases, most likely no more than launch, 2 hits, B!

Twin piston is a reliable tag assault move. I'll test if SAV uf3 is of any use this afternoon.

I take back f4,2 being twitch confirmable. You really have to commit to it now. Balls.

I landed db1, ws4, d2 B! on large characters a few times but forgot to ask opponents if they had commited to mashing a tech roll or not. Fingers crossed this is going to be a real thing. I despise how Dragunov gets a far better sweep juggle compared to ol' Miggs.
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Jordyce
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#75 “Quote” Edit Post
In T6 it was four hits -> SAV 1,2,1. If you have to put in a d/f+1 before the SAV, you've got only two hits + B! + tag for Miguel to come in. On most characters it wouldn't be the damage maximizing option, and you'd be better off tagging Miguel in for d/f+4,1,1 after a couple more hits. Unless you're using a character with a big chunky B! string (Jinpachi has one I believe).
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Furholden
Tekken Lord Black
Joined: May 2008
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#76 “Quote” Edit Post
f2+3 issues. The frame data regarding this move is pretty shifty. Seems to vary from the point of blocking. Better not be spamming it against more experienced players. It's best used when an opponent tags at a distance, or better, against a wall. You hit both, and either one gets a wallsplat.

ff+3 now. Alright this move is pretty good, sure, some people talk about it being slow, and a high. But if your offense is tight, use it conservatively, and this move doesnt get ducked, unless against random duckers. You may connect a uf+1 to bound after this launcher lands. At max range, ff, d+2. First two hits of this juggle takes quite a lot so the rest is freestyle.

f+4,2 is pretty useless now. I only use f+4 as a homing.

f+2 STILL worth throwing out in some cases, though not that all often. BD after a blocked f+2 and sometimes you may see magic.

df3,2 seems to have a hitbox that reaches further now.

2,1 - does it home? seems like it has a bigger hitbox. + tracking.

That is all. Just my two cents. Mig imo became pretty high in tier for me. I think his moves are even stronger when you are hitting both opponents. I think f2+3 was made for that. I like what i'm seeing but i don't think they'll nerf him anytime soon. As for df1 nerf, it's not a big loss.
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Asuka_cherrie
lars:u whiff i laugh
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2411
From: Singapore
#77 “Quote” Edit Post
for those that are under the impression that ff3 homes both side, sorry to burst your bubble but it doesn't. ff3 tracks only to your opponent's right. i was shocked myself when this nina dodged it several times by stepping to her left. it's tested, confirmed and i am quite sure it's not a hallucination. in other words, we are back to square one leaving f4 as his only reliable tracking.

i take back what i say about f2 previously. it has got better range than it looks and recovers relatively well on whiff. so feel free to spam this like like generic's df2 from a distance hoping that it will catch, except that it's high and only launch on CH.

df32 does have better range than before.

f2+3 seems lousier now. it can be easily interrupted with strings.

and now that SAV uf3 has got better recovery, it's possible to do launch, df1~f, sav uf3, df41, df22 ...

ssl ff22 works brilliantly post bound. doesn't hit your opponent too far back giving better juggle ender options.

miguel is solid in tt2.
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The Game
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#78 “Quote” Edit Post
weird cause I have been hit ssl.

unless it was one of the patch changes...
Signature <pukey>: ddp had a better flair
Champion Law of America
Team USA
Top Tier DJ strat:
I'm new to the game but i find that the best way to win is to use f+3 then keep on using 3+4, f+1+2 until there dead.
Furholden
Tekken Lord Black
Joined: May 2008
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#79 “Quote” Edit Post
ff+3 homes. Sometimes Nina players duck while sidestepping so it's normal. Other than that, a normal sidewalk will immediately get caught by ff+3 regardless of direction.

No one uses ff+2,2 for a juggle ender if you want options. End the juggle with a 1+2 for real options.

f2+3 is not supposed to penetrate a string.

Given that the number of hits are pretty crucial in Tt2 before a bound, always use d2 instead of df2,2.

For those who do df1, sav uf3, df4,1 as your staple, you are not able to do sav 121 as a wall carry. Sav 1,4 remains the only option left, or maybe another sav uf3.

For those who have been sticking with mig for a long time and know your stuff, just a gentle reminder, 1+2 ender in any juggle became an even more powerful tool with this new game engine. Always end with 1+2 unless you're newer and just want to deal max dmg in a juggle. After 1+2 spike, your options are pretty self-explanatory based on the position/recovery.
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Mach-Godfist2
6th Dan
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 62
From: Liechtenstein
#80 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Asuka_cherrie
miguel is solid in tt2.


True.

On a side note, f+2+3 is a pretty fun move, range gets weird at times, hit's when you don't expect it to hit
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