Miguel's effective mix-ups and set ups. Need help.

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PolterGiestRysK
Shihan
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 109
#1 “Quote” Edit Post
Hey there Miguel masters and veterans. I'm having a hard time playing with Miguel, maybe due to the fact that i lack in mixing up some strings and setups in serious match against defensive players. I mix up with grabs also but, some players are really good with breaking throws. So what happens is that I'm out of options unless I get a lucky launch and do a combo and pressure them with oki's.
PolterGiestRysK
Shihan
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 109
#2 “Quote” Edit Post
Oh yea, I would like to know some of his effective baits also. thanks. peace.
squaregatescrub
6th Dan
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 70
From: USA Pennsylvania
#3 “Quote” Edit Post
Better late than never.

Mixup his df+1 stings. Df+1,2 df+1,1,3, df+1,1. Use db+1 then combo or db+3,4 if they tried to anticipate the 3 from the df+1,1,3 string.(stand in there waiting to block)

b+2,2 I think can crush highs, I'm not sure. It does have a ducking animation.

uf+4 each and every time you can. One of the better hopkicks in the game imho.

sometimes, try to pepper your opponent with low attacks. when they start crouching ws+2 or ff+2 strings will come in handy.

I am still learning Miguel but those strategies seems to work best. The # 1 with miguel is to keep things simple.
PolterGiestRysK
Shihan
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 109
#4 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by squaregatescrub
Better late than never.

Mixup his df+1 stings. Df+1,2 df+1,1,3, df+1,1. Use db+1 then combo or db+3,4 if they tried to anticipate the 3 from the df+1,1,3 string.(stand in there waiting to block)

b+2,2 I think can crush highs, I'm not sure. It does have a ducking animation.

uf+4 each and every time you can. One of the better hopkicks in the game imho.

sometimes, try to pepper your opponent with low attacks. when they start crouching ws+2 or ff+2 strings will come in handy.

I am still learning Miguel but those strategies seems to work best. The # 1 with miguel is to keep things simple.


Hey man! Thanks for the help and reply! As you can see I've pretty much struggled with Miguel. I mean, there are limited pro players that main him. So I needed to experiment him by myself in order to play well with him every match. I've got different mix ups than yours but might as well try what you've written above! I usually poke with Miguel with df+1, df+1,1, db+3, df+1,1,3, df+4 and hit my opponents with mix ups followed by really annoying lows like db+1 SAV db+3 to get him ducking, then launch him with a hop kick.
Macrorang
1st Dan
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 17
#5 “Quote” Edit Post
One of the things I like to do when I'm playing Miguel is to establish a low poke game with his d/b+3, d+3, d/b+4 (careful with this one. Neutral on hit, It's unsafe and launch punishable on block), d+4, and stay near my opponent around range 1 to 2. If you can annoy them with low pokes, you can establish the d/f+1 game or catch your opponent slipping and hit them with a hopkick. I only go after low pokes pending on who I am facing (character specific example: Capos 13f crouch punish ws+1,3)

However, I like to capitalize on his counter-hit game. His moves that grant a combo on CH are:
11f - b+1+2 (-9 on block) High
15f - f+2 (-2 on block; Slight pushback) High

~ Just some general ideas...
Signature Student of the Game! Have fun and learn at the same time!
My first game for the PSX in 95'.......Tekken
- Tekken 7 Character
- Using or experimenting with
PolterGiestRysK
Shihan
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 109
#6 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Macrorang
One of the things I like to do when I'm playing Miguel is to establish a low poke game with his d/b+3, d+3, d/b+4 (careful with this one. Neutral on hit, It's unsafe and launch punishable on block), d+4, and stay near my opponent around range 1 to 2. If you can annoy them with low pokes, you can establish the d/f+1 game or catch your opponent slipping and hit them with a hopkick. I only go after low pokes pending on who I am facing (character specific example: Capos 13f crouch punish ws+1,3)

However, I like to capitalize on his counter-hit game. His moves that grant a combo on CH are:
11f - b+1+2 (-9 on block) High
15f - f+2 (-2 on block; Slight pushback) High

~ Just some general ideas...


I think, this is a good poking strat to piss off your opponents! I will try this and make use of d+3 more as you mentioned. lol I only use his counter hit moves if I feel that my opponent is going to retaliate on my pokes. It gets quite handy at times! Specially b+1+2.
Macrorang
1st Dan
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 17
#7 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by PolterGiestRysK
I think, this is a good poking strat to piss off your opponents! I will try this and make use of d+3 more as you mentioned. lol I only use his counter hit moves if I feel that my opponent is going to retaliate on my pokes. It gets quite handy at times! Specially b+1+2.


Most definitely. I use f+2 to bait retaliation from a opponent so I can land a d/f+1,1 or 2,1 for SAV pressure. Don't forget to utilize b+3 (+5 on block), b+4, and uf+1 (+3 on block) for wall pressure. As long as your not in your opponents face while doing these moves. A good character space is where you want to keep Miguel. Attacks can get jabbed if that happens...
Signature Student of the Game! Have fun and learn at the same time!
My first game for the PSX in 95'.......Tekken
- Tekken 7 Character
- Using or experimenting with
PolterGiestRysK
Shihan
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 109
#8 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Macrorang
Most definitely. I use f+2 to bait retaliation from a opponent so I can land a d/f+1,1 or 2,1 for SAV pressure. Don't forget to utilize b+3 (+5 on block), b+4, and uf+1 (+3 on block) for wall pressure. As long as your not in your opponents face while doing these moves. A good character space is where you want to keep Miguel. Attacks can get jabbed if that happens...


d+3 comes in handy some times and 1,3 also. Good round ender moves. It looks slower than other low pokes, but its handy. thanks for the tips

I should try the f+2 bait thing. I have a question though, since f+2 is -2 on block then your opponent retaliates with jabs, while you have thrown df+1, 1 the jabs will hit you right? Sorry I still need more knowledge of that move as being a bait move. Enlighten me! lol

I don't use b+3 that much. I only use it like twice per set because even when I'm on the right range to use it some other random scrubs can hit a free jabs on me and a magic 4 to float me(You probably know online plays right?). They didn't combo me after floating me though(goodness they're scrubs), but its annoying to be hit by random button mash. But when I'm against a decent player, b+3 catches them time to time when ever they're least expecting that move. I go with uf+1 and b+4 for wall game, its more comfortable for me.
Macrorang
1st Dan
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 17
#9 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by PolterGiestRysK
d+3 comes in handy some times and 1,3 also. Good round ender moves. It looks slower than other low pokes, but its handy. thanks for the tips

I should try the f+2 bait thing. I have a question though, since f+2 is -2 on block then your opponent retaliates with jabs, while you have thrown df+1, 1 the jabs will hit you right? Sorry I still need more knowledge of that move as being a bait move. Enlighten me! lol

I don't use b+3 that much. I only use it like twice per set because even when I'm on the right range to use it some other random scrubs can hit a free jabs on me and a magic 4 to float me(You probably know online plays right?). They didn't combo me after floating me though(goodness they're scrubs), but its annoying to be hit by random button mash. But when I'm against a decent player, b+3 catches them time to time when ever they're least expecting that move. I go with uf+1 and b+4 for wall game, its more comfortable for me.


I forgot to add a couple things for the f+2 bait:
1.) If a opponent tries to retaliate with a jab, you are able to side step and add pressure (side step to the characters weak side. Example - Dragunov -> SSR). The opponent will be more likely to block because of a whiffed move.

2.) Back dashing; BDC: If I feel my opponent is going to do a move that is slow, I will usually go for d/f+3,2 for a safe option, d+1+2 for a small risk (jab punishable), or d/f+4,1. It depends on what character they are using and what move the opponent throws out.

I use f+2 only to test my opponents knowledge about some characters having misleading push back moves on block. If they do not retaliate, use the move sparingly...

Last edited by Macrorang on Mar 17th, 2013 at 05:24

Signature Student of the Game! Have fun and learn at the same time!
My first game for the PSX in 95'.......Tekken
- Tekken 7 Character
- Using or experimenting with
PolterGiestRysK
Shihan
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 109
#10 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Macrorang
I forgot to add a couple things for the f+2 bait:
1.) If a opponent tries to retaliate with a jab, you are able to side step and add pressure (side step to the characters weak side. Example - Dragunov -> SSR). The opponent will be more likely to block because of a whiffed move.

2.) Back dashing; BDC: If I feel my opponent is going to do a move that is slow, I will usually go for d/f+3,2 for a safe option, d+1+2 for a small risk (jab punishable), or d/f+4,1. It depends on what character they are using and what move the opponent throws out.

I use f+2 only to test my opponents knowledge about some characters having misleading push back moves on block. If they do not retaliate, use the move sparingly...


Okay thanks for the tip mate! I'll try this and use f+2 more as one of my offense arsenal.

regarding on SAV, should I still go for low attacks out of SAV? Are lows are still the main options out of SAV? I'm also confused when using it and end up just using SAV db+3 every time I go into SAV.
Macrorang
1st Dan
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 17
#11 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by PolterGiestRysK
Okay thanks for the tip mate! I'll try this and use f+2 more as one of my offense arsenal.

regarding on SAV, should I still go for low attacks out of SAV? Are lows are still the main options out of SAV? I'm also confused when using it and end up just using SAV db+3 every time I go into SAV.


The only move that you should use out of SAV is d/b+3. I never use SAV d/b+4 because the reward for using it is not great due to only getting a small combo out of it. Plus, it's -29 on block!

SAV d+4,3 is not really worth using frequently because it leaves you at -2 on hit and -15 on block.

Be careful using SAV d/b+3 and d/b+3 when you're facing characters that have a powerful ws 13f punish (Examples: ws+1,3 launch; ws+1,2 launch; ws+1,2 causes KND) because both attacks are -13 on block.

You can still go for the lows, just be cautious when using them.

Last edited by Macrorang on Mar 17th, 2013 at 19:41

Signature Student of the Game! Have fun and learn at the same time!
My first game for the PSX in 95'.......Tekken
- Tekken 7 Character
- Using or experimenting with
PolterGiestRysK
Shihan
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 109
#12 “Quote” Edit Post
^
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@Macrorang

Yeah I know how bad it is. How about you? Do you always go to SAV db+3 everytime you go into SAV? What other good options do you use except for lows out of SAV? - sorry for asking too many questions, mate. As you see only 2 of you are the ones who took the time to post on my thread. haha peace and respect!
Macrorang
1st Dan
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 17
#13 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by PolterGiestRysK
^
^
@Macrorang

Yeah I know how bad it is. How about you? Do you always go to SAV db+3 everytime you go into SAV? What other good options do you use except for lows out of SAV? - sorry for asking too many questions, mate. As you see only 2 of you are the ones who took the time to post on my thread. haha peace and respect!


No problem! If the players do not talk, then we wouldn't be able to improve ourselves and get better!

To your response:
- If I go into SAV, d/b+3 is the primary move I go to (sometimes too much) but I do it to see how my opponents blocking patterns are. If they are looking for that move, I like to use SAV b+1,4 (mid, mid; -10 on block, +6 on hit) or just SAV b+1 (14f, +3 on hit) for uninterrupted poking pressure. I don't use it that much if the opponent likes to crouch(sit) jab, but it's only 10frames and SAV b+1 is not interruptable if you input the command after a SAV d/b+3 is hit. I occasionally may do SAV d/f+1. It's +8 on hit but -3 if blocked (meaning that pressure can end here since you're at a disadvantage).

Sometimes, it can be good to do standing 1 since it grants +1 on block (if you want to continue confusion, movement around opponent, etc.).

You do not have to go in SAV all the time after hitting SAV db+3. You can continue to use d/f+1 for traps, or sidestep d/f+1. The best choice (personally for me) is to continue with pressure since you are at frame advantage.
Signature Student of the Game! Have fun and learn at the same time!
My first game for the PSX in 95'.......Tekken
- Tekken 7 Character
- Using or experimenting with
PolterGiestRysK
Shihan
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 109
#14 “Quote” Edit Post
^
^
@Macrorang

Thanks for the tips mate, I'll try this. I've been doing good so far with the poking & pressure with Miguel, but I've developed a habit of being a pitbull. haha I have to take that away.
StudBuddha
#ANNAISBACK
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1477
From: USA Illinois
#15 “Quote” Edit Post
Wait so his only good move out of SAV is d/b+3? That sucks. SAV d/f+1 isn't usefully at all? I love that move. I just looked up the frame data for that move and I didn't know that SAV d/f+1 is -3 on block. But it is +8 on hit. So that's good.
PolterGiestRysK
Shihan
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 109
#16 “Quote” Edit Post
Yes indeed that's a good MID move out of SAV. But I was asking the best/low risk LOW out of SAV.

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