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MCP
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9619
From: USA California
#1 “Quote” Edit Post
Hi, this is MCP. I have edited The Real Don's (Florida) original post to try to be more coincise and clear, and to bring it up to date. Although EWGF hasn't changed much in any version of tekken since 3, it is constantly a hurdle for new mishima players. I hope this will help and I appreciate any feedback or suggestions. ch d/f+2, ewgf guide is number 13 below and EWGF Block Punishment is number 14 below.

1.How to do ewgf: PRACTICE
- PAY ATTENTION: IT'S NOT EASY, ONE MUST PRACTICE, A LOT. Practice Every Day and your dedication will pay off.
- If still confused use the 'Ask a question, get an Answer' stickied thread.
- The notation to do the move is f,n,d/f+2 or f,n,d,d/f+2. Yes f,n,d/f+2 is one frame faster.
- d/f and 2 at the same time!!!! <-- cannot stress enough.

2.How do I know if I did an ewgf? Same notation, it's a timing issue.
- The easiest way to tell if you did the move correctly is that he will yell, "doriya!" on completion of the move. Devil Jin yells 'Yaah!' and Heihachi yells something an old man would yell.
- Mostly just look and listen for electricity.
- The next way to tell is that blueish lightning will cover his arm and part of his upper torso.
- On block it will send the opponent back a few steps while they are covered in lightning for a very short period of time. On console, one may set the practice opponent to 'Block' to help discern between regular WGF and an electric WGF.

3.Differences between wgf and ewgf
- Other than the visual differences, ewgf is safe on block and leaves you at a +5 frame advantage, whereas the wgf leaves you at a -10 frame dis-advantage.
- Any WGF is slower than if you had managed to do an EWGF instead. This occurs because a WGF will happen only if you press the '2' after the 'd/f'.
- They are both 11 frames once you hit '2', but they depend on how quickly or slowly you enter f,n,d,d/f+2. For instance, each period, '.', represents a frame:

f.n.d/f+2 <-- minimum 13 frames EWGF, that is 1 + 1 for f,n and then 11 frames for the d/f+2.
f.n.d.D/F....+2 <-- 18 frames WGF, 1+1+1, for f,n,d, and then +4 for holding D/F for 4 frames, and then +11 for pressing '2'.
f.F...n.d.d/f+2 <-- 17 frames Dash EWGF. Hold the second Forward for a few frames to dash and then do ewgf.


4.How to do a dash ewgf aka 'DEWGF'
- The notation for dewgf is f,f,n,d,d/f+2. This is mainly used as THE mishimas whiff punisher. It will not launch when an enemy is ducking or their attack goes under high moves.
- With the dewgf there can be a slight delay while holding f~F before doing n,d,d/f+2.
- It tracks 'better' because the dash re-aligns with your opponent. A key in tekken is to be able to realign yourself with your opponent's side walk and then attack with a move that wouldn't normally hit them.
- Also the forward dash can cover a lot of ground in order to hit them out of back dash or tagging in/out.

5.How to wave dash/wewgf/wdewgf
- The notation for a wavedash is f,n,qcf~f,n,d,d/f or f,n,d~d/f~n, f,n,d~d/f. The neutral after the crouch dash becomes a hidden 'f' input.
- The notation for a wewgf is f,n,qcf~f,n,d~d/f+2
- The notation for cd~f,f+2 is f,n,d,d/f,f~f+2 or f,n,d,d/f,n,f+2. By holding the last forward for a bit, f,n,d,d/f,f~F, one can add a little extra length to the forward dash in order to adjust for opponent's position.
- The notation for wdewgf is f,n,qcf~F,n,d~d/f+2. Same as normal wave dash but holding the F a little bit to DASH.
- To practice this, the "Sugarfoot" training method may be used. Do an ewgf, do a crouch dash~ewgf, do two crouch dashes~ewgf, and so on with three and up. If you mess up, start over at one. Also can vary this with many movement examples. Do crouch dash ~ back dash cancel, 2x cd into 2x back dash cancels. Add EWGF somewhere in there. Just get creative so this doesn't feel so boring. Being able to combine movements is a very important aspect of tekken, so make sure to practice it.
- Note: d/f+2 out of crouch dash and (lack of) mist step out of cd: f,n,d,d/f,f, f,n,d/f will not do a crouch dash nor mist step, and f,n,d,d/f,f, f,n,d/f+2 will do a standing d/f+2. To do a cd~ewgf, use the above notation.
- f,n,d,d/f,n, f,n will not do mist step nor will f,n,d,d/f,n, f,n,d/f do another crouch dash. It will do a forward dash.
- Common Mistake: I wanted to do dash d/f+2 or dash d/f+1, but I got wgf/tgf instead. This occurs because you did f,F,n,d,d/f+1. If you want to do dash d/f+1, do not go to neutral, instead hold the second forward, f~[F], and then slide to d/f: f~F, d/f+1 and now you've done dash d/f+1.

6.How to do a while running ewgf. With enough room you can do instant running 3 or EWGF.
- f,n,f,f,n,d~d/f+2
- f,f,F,n,d~d/f+2

7. Situations where using either dewgf or wave ewgf is better than ewgf.
- Good to use dewgf. Ex. Marduk does a b+4 and you back dash it. That leaves Marduk at a major frame disadvantage, but you are too far away to throw out a normal ewgf, so it is neccesary to do a dash ewgf, this gives you a quick leap forward into an ewgf.
- Good use of wewgf. Qudans said no more than 2 crouch dashes are necessary and I think this holds true in T6 BR and Tag2. It is tough to say wave ewgf is important. But an opponent knowing each crouch dash may result in EWGF, cd+4, throws, mids, jabs, or just blocking, is kind of a scary place to be. It adds moves to your arsenal, something to help slow down your opponent's reaction time. Sometimes two quick crouch dashes into ewgf can re-align yourself with an opponent so they cannot avoid it with side walking or back dashing. I will put this up for contention amongst top players as to whether wave dash into ewgf is really useful outside of maybe a special case. Wave dash is more often used in ground games after juggles. Mostly just watch top players and think occasionally if they ever even use a wave dash. Test for yourself.

8.How to Light dash
- Same notation as wave dash except much faster. It will look quicker and almost like he is bobbing in place. The standard is around 6+ crouch dashes per second.
- Flashy but not used in tournament matches unless trying to freeze your opponent with this flashy movement. It's really not important to learn.

9. How to cancel a crouch dash into a move.
- Forward Dash move, eg f,f+4. f,n,d,d/f,f~f+2 or f,n,d,d/f,n,f+4. The neutral inputs a hidden 'f'.
- Backward dash moves, eg b,b+2. f,n,d,d/f~b~b+2.
- Blocking from crouch dash: f,n,d,d/f~B. Should work at any time during a crouch dash.
- While standing move, eg ws+1,2. f,n,d,d/f~b~1,2. First practice blocking quickly out of crouch dash, then practice hitting b~1, for some reason b+1 at the same time doesn't work (programmable stick tested).
- Kazuya's crouch grab (Consistent in T6BR). f,n,d,d/f~d~d/f+1+2 will do kazuya's equivalent to Bryan's 'chains of misery' grab.
- iws: instant while standing. A general tekken skill which results in a while standing move by quickly doing d~d/f~n+1 or d~d/b~n+1 from a normal standing position. Likewise this can be done after a crouch dash, f,n,d,d/f,f,f n, d~d/b,n+1 for crouch dash cancel into ws+1. Note, this is significantly slower than f,n,d,d/f,b+1 for ws+1 from crouch dash.

10. EWGF results in a juggle on normal or counter hit. See combo thread for juggles. Use the 'Ask a Question, Get an Answer' stickied thread for questions.
- It is possible opponent is jumping in the air, resulting in a partial juggle opportunity. Despite EWGF being a high move, it has a huge hit box and it will look like it hits very "low" in juggles.

11.Punishability of ewgf.
- While +5 on block and fast, EWGF has three downsides.
- It hits high, meaning it can be ducked or 'high crushed'.
- It doesn't track to kazuya's right, or opponent's side walk left.
- A whiffed EWGF has a built in extra delay to let your opponent whiff punish you more easily since Tekken 6 onward. In older games, a whiffed EWGF was more difficult to whiff punish.
- Because EWGF is such a high "powered" moved, this will cause people to try to avoid it, be wary!

12.Punishability of wgf, -10 on block.
- WGF is punishable on block. Before being skilled, do not be afraid to use a long crouch dash wgf or a dash wgf to punish opponents, but in time, one should aim to not use wgf except by mistake.

13. ch d/f+2, ewgf (13 frame EWGF)
- HARD! In the meantime, stick to simple juggles such as ch d/f+2, 314, d/b+2, etc.
- ch d/f+2, 13 frame EWGF launches the opponent as if they were standing for a full EWGF juggle. One gets the benefit of the damage of ch d/f+2 plus a full EWGF juggle. How do we know this works? ch d/f+2, d/f+4,4 hits the opponent as if they are standing while ch d/f+2, d/f+2 knocks the opponent away as if they were mid air. d/f+4 is 13 frames and d/f+2 is 14 frames.
- Three parts for ch d/f+2:
1. Hit confirming ch d/f+2 in a real match.
2. Holding F and then doing n,d/f+2 at the exact correct timing (Watch for the first knee, the right knee, to touch the ground).
3. Actually doing n,d/f+2 in minimum time, as it is entirely possible to mess up and do f,n,d/f~2 for wgf or f,N ....,d/f+2 for ewgf that is too slow because the neutral took too long.
- From straight on, ch d/f+2, ewgf launch leaves kazuya a little bit off to his right, almost as if he had done ssr~EWGF, allowing for slightly different combos to be used. For example, ewgf, ewgf, u/f+3, f,f, n+3,1,4 dewgf.


14. Practicing block punishment with 14 f EWGF:
Originally posted by Ben111
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sAFkAJWse4


little video on how to practice i14 EWGF in t6 brought to you by Phunnykidd and Ben111

It's VERY difficult to block punish -13 and -14 frame moves in real matches (much less practice mode) because you not only have to recognize you blocked a punishable move, you also have to know the exact timing for this particular move to enter n,d/f+2, as each move recovers differently; this is entirely different than mashing u/f+4~4~4~4~4 or d/f+2~2~2~2.
Tip: hold F during the block animation and time the n,d/f+2 for when the move recovers.


Last but not least if you cannot do these things listed, then practice. If you have any questions not pertaining to the topic then use the 'Ask a Question, Get an Answer' stickied thread. Some of your questions may end up here. At first ewgf will be hard to do but after some weeks of practice for about 20 min every day u will be doing it 9 out of 10 times in practice mode. Be aware that the pressure of a match with opponents will cause your execution to fail more often. It is always better to play real opponents, but sometimes that is just not possible.


15. Stick vs pad
- Stick allows for fast and precise input of directions and give bigger buttons. Pad is still good, but is considered less consistent for inputs on the directional pad. It is very easy to input an extra direction on a pad, for example f,n,d,d/f,f+2 instead of f,n,d,d/f+2, resulting in a wgf or other nonsense. But in the end this is entirely up to the player. There are always examples of top players using pads or sticks so just use whatever feels comfortable! My personal experience leads me to logically conclude sticks are more consistent, but I'm not here to tell anyone what to do, always test for yourself.

Last edited by MCP on Feb 16th, 2012 at 19:56

vittujee
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#2 “Quote” Edit Post
-There is 2 frames after the d/f to hit the 2.

there is not. it has to be on the exact same frame or otherwise you got wgf.

in fact, this is the only important thing to realize about ewgf.

there is no rush or any other timing into learning to do ewgf other than hitting d/f and 2 at the very same frame.

as for dewgf, basically you can wait quite some time after dashing to input d,df2. infact, you can wait a short moment between d and df2 aswell (10f), which is technically already crouching.

canceling crouchdash into ws moves has a more reliable method.
basically, cd,ff,d~ws. basically doing a dash into iws. which can also useful move by itself already, especially ws1. it takes a while to get it though, as it takes 8 frames for you to be "crouching" so that you can let go and move becomes ws and not standing move. dongpal used this method in crash, as you cannot use cd,b,n1+2, you'll just end up with ultimate tackle instead. this method is slower by at least 8 frames.

doing it the oldskool way is insane. the input window will vary from 1-3 frames per different frame you input b on. but its shit ton faster.

pad ewgf can be easily consistent. easiest way for this is to make sure you stop into d/f and not go to f. however difference would be in speed of execution and speed of wavedash.

but consistent pewgf will probably be near impossible on pads. d-pad can be made more sensitive by adding tape to the bottom of the d-pad, but i dont know if that'll be enough for pewgf.

also, the term pewgf, perfect ewgf is pretty cool.

edit: i'd write what kazuya yells "DORIYA" ;o
cheers

edit2: my biggest mistake when i started learning to do ewgf was to try to do it as fast as possible, which often lead to not inputting neutral and I didnt really know what was wrong, then i assumed i was trying to do it too slow. wouldnt want anyone repeat that kind of silly mistake.

maybe writing something about how to use tekken6 practice mode's input display. like it does show if you press the keys on the same frame or not. it alsow shows the neutral there as pause, which ought to be quite helpful to see where you went wrong with input while practicing.

and how about a link to main mans video? if i remember right its accurate about everything except the 2 frame window thing.

Last edited by vittujee on Jun 28th, 2010 at 18:44

MCP
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#3 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by vittujee
there is not. it has to be on the exact same frame or otherwise you got wgf.

edited: Vittujee is correct, see below.

Maybe I should write an explanation for ch d/f+2, ewgf launch next, since that just about is a just frames.



Originally posted by vittujee
canceling crouchdash into ws moves has a more reliable method.
basically, cd,ff,d~ws. basically doing a dash into iws. which can also useful move by itself already, especially ws1. it takes a while to get it though, as it takes 8 frames for you to be "crouching" so that you can let go and move becomes ws and not standing move. dongpal used this method in crash, as you cannot use cd,b,n1+2, you'll just end up with ultimate tackle instead. this method is slower by at least 8 frames.

doing it the oldskool way is insane. the input window will vary from 1-3 frames per different frame you input b on. but its shit ton faster.

I see what you are saying, but the way I wrote it is no more difficult as inputting an ewgf. In fact I think dongpal's way is useful in ground game because you can take your time and be accurate, but in the open field I wouldn't consider it.

What you suggest is f,n,d,d/f~f~f~n~iws, where iws is d,d/b,n+1, and d,d/f would result in another crouch dash. This is slower. Also there are many ways to achieve this. The goal is to do crouch dash ~ instant while standing.

f,n,d,d/f,f,f, n,d~d/b~n+1,2 <-- Crouch dash into quick forward dash into instant while standing.

f,n,d,d/f,b, n, d~d/b or d~d/f, n+1,2 <-- Crouch dash into block into instant while standing.

f,n,d,d/f,u, n, d~d/b or d~d/f, n+1,2 <-- Crouch dash into quick side step up into instant while standing.

Note: The cancel, whether it is blocking, forward dashing or side stepping, the transition into instant while standing doesn't have to be done quickly. the neutral between for instance crouch dash ~ up and then neutral and then instant while standing may be done slowly and carefully.

Note 2: All of these have visual animations that can be seen. Someone who gets used to hellsweep and this sort of jerky crouch dash into instant while standing will be able to tell the difference in real time, but of course never consistently. There benefit of doing f,n,d,d/f~b+1,2 is that there is no visual difference. In fact devil jin's hellsweep and cd~ws+2 occur on almost the exact same frame, I think ws+2 is now 1 frame slower. Of course this all depends on the user's input, but a perfect hellsweep is one frame faster than a perfect cd~ws+2.

Last edited by MCP on Jun 29th, 2010 at 15:55

vittujee
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#4 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by MCP
14. EWGF is not a 'just frame.' There is a window of up to 2 frames after the d/f to hit the 2. Always think d/f+2 at the same time, but it's not as precise as a just frame. Never has been and still isn't. For instance, Hwoarang's JFSR, f,n,d/f+4 and Heihachi's OTGF, f,n,d/f+1, are both just frames, where EWGF is not.


um. yes, it is. this would be based on t5dr and t6br testing with macro inputs. thats with accuracy of 1ms. that being said, I cannot input _exact_ frame, I'll have to use 17ms as a frame, however its consistent. 99/100 consistent.

and based on testing, ewgf is just frame. because you have errormargin of, well, none. you have to input d/f and 2 at the exact same frame. and that really is all there is to it, as nothing else makes no difference. heres some numbers http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/forum...threadid=116717



I see what you are saying, but the way I wrote it is no more difficult as inputting an ewgf. In fact I think dongpal's way is useful in ground game because you can take your time and be accurate, but in the open field I wouldn't consider it.

well, having to input b,n+1 withing 1 (or randomly up to 3, but being consistent better go for b,n+1 within 1 frame b and second frame is n+1) being almost just a frame you could think its as difficult as inputting ewgf.

personally i think its shit ton more harder, comparing hitting df+2 in the same frame to inputting b into single frame then to neutral+1 in single frame, with no frames between them. its pretty much 2 jf's consecutively.
heres the data (same link as above) http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/forum...threadid=116717

What you suggest is f,n,d,d/f~f~f~n~iws, where iws is d,d/b,n+1, and d,d/f would result in another crouch dash. This is slower. Also there are many ways to achieve this. The goal is to do crouch dash ~ instant while standing.

i dont really know why you say iws is d,d/b,n+1. it really makes no difference, you just have to be in crouch for 8 frames, then going to neutral+1 gives you ws1. anything less is a standing move.
MCP
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#5 “Quote” Edit Post
Sorry, will fix asap.

Also I was thinking, it's still more important to tell the new players just because ewgf is minimum 13 or 14 frames, doesn't mean it's easy to punish a -14 frame move. There are so many ways to be slow when inputting f,n,d.

ps Noodalls posted this as well: f,n,d,d/f done on F1-4 and then 2 on F4 gives EWGF, 2 on F5-22 gives WGF.
http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/forum...226#post3993226

pps will get back to you about iws.

Last edited by MCP on Jun 29th, 2010 at 15:24

vittujee
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#6 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by MCP Also I was thinking, it's still more important to tell the new players just because ewgf is minimum 13 or 14 frames, doesn't mean it's easy to punish a -14 frame move. There are so many ways to be slow when inputting f,n,d.


I also would think thats important. It is not necessary to be able to punish -13 or -14 moves. It'll be great to be able to punish -15 and rest.
As I've watched tekken crash and tekken5 matches on youtube, I dont remember anyone punishing anything -13 with ewgf. Of course, could be that I didnt pay attention to it.

being able to punish properly on -13 would require you to know exactly which frame to start inputting as you cannot buffer, which easily qualifies as "jf" timing, aswell as doing pewgf which is like triple jf in theory.

edited out the part about using 1+2, which was terribly wrong so that noone will get the wrong idea

Last edited by vittujee on Nov 5th, 2010 at 07:02

MCP
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#7 “Quote” Edit Post
iws, while doing d~d/b or just d/b doesn't matter, doing D only does matter:
http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/forum...523#post3955523


D on F1 release on F12 (not before) then button on F12-17 gives ws+1.



DB or DF on F1, release on F7 and press 1 on F7 gives iWS+1. Doesn't matter if you press D,then move to DF or DB at any point from F1-6.


I see people learn d~d/f or d~d/b pretty quickly over the years, so it cannot be that difficult of a method for humans. But whatever works for you.

I was reading noodall's post and I can see where Heihachi's EWGF was more difficult in tekken tag. The f~n had to be FAST. You only had 4 frames to input f and then it would never register as ewgf, even if you did n~d~d/f+2 perfect. So maybe that's where the myth of a smaller input window started...
abdul1567
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#8 “Quote” Edit Post
sorry if this is the wrong thread for this but this is a great video to help learn the move:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqYQ1UH6_D8
bezkoh=D
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#9 “Quote” Edit Post
the legendary punch, to start off try doing the wgf until you mastered that, try it faster i noticed in tekken 4 you got a lightning effect and at the time there wasn't a name for it, timing is the key here, press d/f and 2 at the same time i have better luck if i press more towards down than forward, now i'm confusing myself lol, my ewgf rate = 85%
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The Real Don
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#10 “Quote” Edit Post
I don't know who renzo is but that is not me. My tekken name is TRD my casual name is Smitty. I'm also from Jacksonville, Florida.
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VargasTheSick
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#11 “Quote” Edit Post
Renzo is horrible.
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Psypher
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#12 “Quote” Edit Post
Awesome thread! great info

ps: who is renzo?
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MCP
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#13 “Quote” Edit Post
Renzo, last I checked, plays in the San Francisco Bay Area, which is why I know him. He's pretty good at fighting games too. It was just a brain fart when I messed up the credits.
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Dilly
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#14 “Quote” Edit Post
I just figured I'd add to the CH d/f+2~ewgf portion...

Now this is known to some players--but, it seems to not be completely common knowledge.

After CH d/f+2, you can hold F, then simply do the N~d/f+2 portion as soon as you see that knee touch the ground. I find this method a lot easier because you can merely focus on hitting that d/f+2 on time. It helped me work on performing this from both sides as well.

Just thought it'd be good to add that method to the OP.
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Klyde
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#15 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Dilly
I just figured I'd add to the CH d/f+2~ewgf portion...

Now this is known to some players--but, it seems to not be completely common knowledge.

After CH d/f+2, you can hold F, then simply do the N~d/f+2 portion as soon as you see that knee touch the ground. I find this method a lot easier because you can merely focus on hitting that d/f+2 on time. It helped me work on performing this from both sides as well.

Just thought it'd be good to add that method to the OP.


Really? I had always thought the initial f motion of the mist ewgf couldn't be buffered, which is what made the gut punch to pewgf so difficult?
Dilly
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#16 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Klyde
Really? I had always thought the initial f motion of the mist ewgf couldn't be buffered, which is what made the gut punch to pewgf so difficult?


Try it yourself...it works like a charm. You have to hold F though, you can't just tap it. The game recognizes the holding as you tapping it (as long as you release it soon enough), then the N~d/f+2 finishes out the pewgf. It seriously works.
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MCP
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#17 “Quote” Edit Post
Klyde, fyi, holding forward after CH d/f+2 was made well known during Tekken 5. I can tell you it makes it a little bit easier from personal experience, but it's still f-in hard because you still have to know when to let off F, and then do n,d/f+2 perfectly.

Thanks Dilly. Before we had a separate thread, but it's totally appropriate here. Maybe we can whittle this thing down a little bit more.
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St. George
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#18 “Quote” Edit Post
It works because you're not actually buffering the f. If you were then you would be inputting f and releasing it before recovery. By holding F until he recovers you are just inputting the f on the first recovery frame (if your timing is right)
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Psypher
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#19 “Quote” Edit Post
Yeah, it does make its a little bit easier

Thanks

Edit: I've noticed that when I use Kaz, I can EWGF but my consistency is not that great. I struggle with 2 in a row

However, if I use Heihachi my consistency increases greatly (3 or 4 in a row)...

Can anyone explain why this is happening?

Last edited by Psypher on Feb 6th, 2012 at 16:37

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MCP
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From: USA California
#20 “Quote” Edit Post
Mind block?
You're going to have to explain what comes out instead of EWGF when you play kazuya, because besides 13f ewgf, there is no difference between Heihachi, Devil Jin, and Kazuya.
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