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NYG5
Iron Fist God
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1571
#101 “Quote” Edit Post
right so you would sidestep to your own left.


god dammit this explains everything now
vittujee
Deity
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 650
#102 “Quote” Edit Post
so I've hit another rut in my game.
learn to play without electric, only use it as a punisher for that time. You'll need to get used to the other tools.

One could think of electric as i13~14 magic 4 or steves b1, that:
1 doesn't need ch to launch
2 tracks left completely
3 is +5 on block instead of -9.
Downside is that you cant buffer it, you have to manually input it after opponents moves, but thats why you are playing kazuya.


You could also just make your own breakdown of what does electric do, what is its function. Is it more effective weapon when you are not using it while opponent is afraid of it or is it only effective when you have to keep reminding your opponent about it?

About your ewgfs getting interrupted; This shouldn't happen (too often). You're doing something wrong (spacing/timing), unless they are employing the same tactic as I mentioned above, and going under it.
Its a pretty obvious fact that we probably don't think about often enough: If you lose, you are doing something wrong.

However, theres nothing inherently wrong with ewgfs getting interrupted. In a situation where only magic 4 or them ducking would get you launched if you do electric, you make a read or play the odds. If you die to their launch but cant kill them, is it worth it? Maybe it is, maybe theres not enough time to take things slowly. Is it worth it if both can die? Or if you cant die, but opponent will?

Decisions. Nothing wrong with getting ewgf interrupted when you know what you are getting into. At least thats how I see it, and I cannot understand this other way of thinking where there is "right" and "wrong" ways of playing. You are wrong if you lose. You can think you are wrong when you win, but in reality the jury is in: you won, you were right. Whether you enjoyed it or not is completely separate matter and should be kept as such. win is a win.

Fixed.
9 is still wrong

I use the f, n, qcf method for a crouch dash, the command history shows this is what i am doing.
kazuya has moves that are considered to be crouch dash moves: wgf, electric, hellsweep, hell lancer, tgf. Now only 2 of those 5 moves can be done using your declaration of CD input.

Explain how will we benefit from redefining CD?
When doing iws out of a wavedash, I hold back then input 2 as soon as I see kazuya enter his crouch.
Maybe some of my personal techniques only apply to controller users, for example, if I wanted to do IWS 2 with jin after ff+3, i have to input db, d, df, f+2.
if you are doing iws, then you are doing iws. if you are doing crouch dash cancel into while standing, you are doing cdcws. or cdws if you're lazy at typing.

afaik you can do iws by holdown down for 6 frames and on next frame you let go and hit button to get iws move that is move[i]+i6

You can use down, downback, downforward if you want. And instead of neutral you can use back or forward unless your character has fc f+button or fc b+button move.

cdcws and cd,iws are not fair to be compared. cd,cdcws and cd,iws would be better to compare, but then we can just go directly to comparing

cdcws and iws. cdcws is crouch dash, meaning that at the point of cancel you can opt to go for hellsweep which comes out at i16 from button press or go for n~b~b+1,2 to get about i15 mid launcher that cannot be stepped left at the same timing as you would step hellsweep.

This means you have to match the timing of hellsweep to create a true 50/50. Its not really a true 50/50 when opponent can move, because it is possible to step both to left. But stepping cdctp is much stricter than just hellsweep. But after anything that makes opponent unable to step left, like if they tech it can be true 50/50.

also cdcws goes forward. iws does not.

omfg.... are you telling me when a character is weak against SSL, it means that they're weak when you sidestep to YOUR left?
characters move x tracks to his left, in order to avoid it you step to your left.
==
move tracks left, step left to avoid.
just accept your inner narcissist. its always all about ourselves.

d/b+4 {I always thought this tracked well to kaz right but aftre watching Vittujee's vid.... Seems it can be walked left
just because a move can be avoided doesnt mean it has bad tracking.

any move as long as theres is room to move can be avoided. homing cant be evaded by sidestepping, but as a bonus afaik when you whiff punish it its always on axis combo.

electric can be stepped to right. Its possible, it just not necessarily very effective way to deal with electric.

dragunovs uf4 tracks both sides crazy good. But right in front of it is its highest reach, if you had backdashed prior to uf4 with kazuya, you can step uf4 to both directions. If you're too close you cant.

db4 is amazing because as long as you cant backdash it, you need to commit to not getting hit by it.
You can commit to sidewalking, but that opens you up for some dash electric or possibly even dash dktp.
You can try adding it to an option select it as its i19~i20 or just try blocking it, but in the end you'll be crouching and crouching is a commitment because you no longer can sidestep down.

If you can force opponent into situation where they cannot step left, all your favourite powertools wont be backfiring because of them stepping. Coincidentally I think having p1 side is any electricians most important tool.

Just because db4 is not homing, its silly think that it doesnt have amazing tracking for a low with crazy reach and plus on hit and not even launch punishable.

great tracking right: b4 and range 0 standing 2
some tracking right: df4, d4, ws4, b1, df3.
df3 has shitty range though, but if you got your opponent cornered df3 should prevent non lars/lili from getting out of there. Even on block opponent has to make a read if he should push the -7 while risk getting ch'd !W'd by (df3)21. I dont use it, so at this time this is just a theory I thought up just now, but I have found that df3 does have tracking, but its almost useless because it has such a bad range even slightly off axis.

Last edited by vittujee on Aug 25th, 2014 at 14:35

Ranu91
6th Dan
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 71
From: United Kingdom
PSN: Ranu1991
XBL: Ranu91
#103 “Quote” Edit Post
hello i read the EWGF sticky and it says you can wavedash with the input f~n~d~df~n repeatedly. when i try to do this method kazuya stops after 1 crouch dash, any tips on how to fix this? thanks.
Signature PEWGF LAUNCH FTW
Ranu91
6th Dan
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 71
From: United Kingdom
PSN: Ranu1991
XBL: Ranu91
#104 “Quote” Edit Post
nevermind its working now.
Signature PEWGF LAUNCH FTW
Chand_evil
Virtuoso
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 218
From: North Korea
PSN: chand_evil
XBL: microsoft_sam
#105 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by vittujee


great tracking right: b4 and range 0 standing 2
some tracking right: df4, d4, ws4, b1, df3.
df3 has shitty range though, but if you got your opponent cornered df3 should prevent non lars/lili from getting out of there. Even on block opponent has to make a read if he should push the -7 while risk getting ch'd !W'd by (df3)21. I dont use it, so at this time this is just a theory I thought up just now, but I have found that df3 does have tracking, but its almost useless because it has such a bad range even slightly off axis.


I edited my post the best I could, removing information that has been repeated throughout this thread.
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