Phoenix rising: the T6 BR Paul guide

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USMCOgre
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#181 “Quote” Edit Post
Hmm, I noticed last night that Ling's df2,1 is similar to Steves sonic fang on block when shoulder will miss from point blank for no reason, but punish from further away. Just like sonic fang, b1,2 always hits.
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BlackPriest
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#182 “Quote” Edit Post
WS+2, f+2, f+2, b1,2 B! f,f 3,2 is 67 dmg
WS+2, f+2, f+2, b1,2 B! qcf+3+4 is 66 dmg and better oki
CH 4, f,f,1, d/f+1,~SWY 1 B! f,f d+4:2:1+2 is 71 dmg
CH 4, f,f,1,2, b1,2 B! f,f d+4:2:1+2 is 74 and easier than d/b+2_qcf+1 followups after f,f+1

Will add these combos to the 1st post.

---

Ogre: Ok thanks, will edit this in the punish list.

Last edited by BlackPriest on Sep 17th, 2010 at 07:35

JanusDS
Warrior
Joined: Jun 2010
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#183 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by BlackPriest
WS+2, f+2, f+2, b1,2 B! f,f 3,2 is 67 dmg
WS+2, f+2, f+2, b1,2 B! qcf+3+4 is 66 dmg and better oki
CH 4, f,f,1, d/f+1,~SWY 1 B! f,f d+4:2:1+2 is 71 dmg
CH 4, f,f,1,2, b1,2 B! f,f d+4:2:1+2 is 74 and easier than d/b+2_qcf+1 followups after f,f+1

Will add these combos to the 1st post.

---

Ogre: Ok thanks, will edit this in the punish list.


I've actually noticed that every time I do the first combo you listed, WS+2, f+2, f+2, b+1,2 B!, I don't have to tap f,f to get the 3,2 - I can just do the 3,2 straight out because it leaves them close enough. I've never had to do f,f and I've always connected it. Just thought I'd add that little tidbit for those that don't want to have to dash in their juggle.
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BlackPriest
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#184 “Quote” Edit Post
Thanks for pointing that out, but I am thinking a straight forward 3,2 should leave you even farther from your opponent post hit, so the oki might be worse due to the bigger recovery distance?
JanusDS
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#185 “Quote” Edit Post
Yeah, that's probably true; but I don't think the oki is too good on that combo regardless of the positioning when you do the 3,2 since the 2 knocks them pretty far out. I may be mistaken though; I'll try it later and see.
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BlackPriest
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#186 “Quote” Edit Post
You can dash up for a mix-up. Not the best oki, I know, but still better than nothing...
BlackPriest
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#187 “Quote” Edit Post
UPDATE:

I changed a lot of things in the frame adv section (added mix-ups post SS+1, b+1+2 and f+1+2 and added magic 4 as an option where appropriate).

Tomorrow I will revise the mind games section (as some mind games are not really useful in a match against strong opponents), while I found that a post wall B! d+1 works great even against strong opponents (I started using d+1 instead of D+1 because qcf+1+2 being the only move with a crouchdash animation out of FC kinda made the mix-up too obvious. d+1 however gives you qcf+1+2 if they lie there and qcf+3+4 (which looks very similar at the beginning of the animation) for a high splat if they try to get up and low block thinking qcf+1+2 comes out.) Will elaborate this better tomorrow...
mantastic
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#188 “Quote” Edit Post
i know this is probably old news, but for people struggling to learn demoman, it only comes out if he does a specific sound on the 2. something like "yeah", the way "bone breaker" in the movelist is done.

i find it easier if i think of the notation as d+4, 2 rather than d+4~2 or even d+4:2. More of a pause, i suppose. the 1+2 comes right after the 2 hits. it also helped to use "we will rock you" as a framework for starting practice, like rbkaiser wrote somewhere

for some reason when i'm in practice mode i'll do nothing except JF demomen and then all of a sudden i only seem to do regular demoman.
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Dilly
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#189 “Quote” Edit Post
Just dropping in to give people more "easier JF" info...

f,f+2:1 can be done by pressing f,f+2~4~1. Found this out trying to help out my buddy who just starting playing tekken and still hasn't gotten a grasp of the just frame idea yet. Probably because he has the swagger of a soccer mom and as such rhythm is NOT in his nature.

Granted, it's probably the easiest JF in the game, but it's still worth noting if anyone in this world is actually somehow having issues with performing said JF.
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BlackPriest
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#190 “Quote” Edit Post
Dilly, the walking "how to pull off JF's easier"-library.

I will add this advise to the guide too. I planned on writing a few sentences on f,f+2:1 and magic 4 combos anyway to avoid the same question being asked over and over, so this is perfect, thanks.
Shinjin
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#191 “Quote” Edit Post
ws+1 is 99% of the time 11 frames, so whould be listed as 11 unless theres certain moves that allow it to hit at 10.

We do the same for ws+2 (15-16).
Signature Bruck him for souf east, blud

look man the move doesnt track sidestep, but if you sidestep it will hit you
steves b+1 isint safe because it only auto guards high and mid, but you can cancel it and block all lows
Jaycees u/f+4,3 is launch punishable on block but if you try to punish it the 1 follow-up will hit you
BlackPriest
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#192 “Quote” Edit Post
Corrected, thanks.

Aside from punishing the only use WS+1 has imo is when ppl expect a WS+4 and try to SSL.
l247465379
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#193 “Quote” Edit Post
Once again thanks for such an in-depth thread
BlackPriest
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#194 “Quote” Edit Post
^ Thanks.

---

Interesting new vid:



Gotta test and see if there are more options for Paul...

EDIT:

After some testing I can say the following:

If what this Korean vid suggests is true, namely that you can?t block i16 moves after getting hit by a d/b+1 BT, then we have something really nasty here.
I tested with training dummy set to ?stand to block? and tech to both sides. I have yet to test this against a human opponent, but if done correctly the dummy cannot escape this. Here?s the set-up:

Launch, f+2, f+2, b+1,2, (B!):
- f,f, U/F (jump over), d/b+1~WS+2 (u/f+3 and u/f+3,4 also work but don?t give a consistent followup due to axis, u/f+4 tends to whiff because of the distance): connects on tech to both sides and seems inescapable if you do WS+2 fast enough; do it one frame late and the dummy can block it; nets you a f+2, f+2, b+1,2 (B!) qcf+2 combo for further 74 damage (tested on Ling)

More importantly however, if this works on human opponents too we have a real option against tech roll for Shinjin?s reset combo f,f, n, 3,2, f+1, f,f+2:1 (36 damage; can be substituted by f,f, n, d/b+2, f+1, f,f,d+4:2:1+2 (39 damage). With this we would have a true 50/50, namely:
- jump over into d/b+1~WS+2: rapes tech rolls
- f,f, n into 3,2_d/b+2 reset: hits lie there and back rolls; on back rolls it even allows for a further B!

The timing of the jump over into d/b+1~WS+2 is a little tricky but I'm sure it can be practiced to a very good consistency. I did it for 10 minutes and got it down like 70 % of the times.

Summing up: very promising stuff so far, let's hope it's really unescapable, not only for the dummy.

Last edited by BlackPriest on Dec 16th, 2010 at 19:24

Shinjin
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#195 “Quote” Edit Post
After extensive testing it turns out you can block everything after the BT d+1 except ws+4.

After being hit by the bt d/b+1 if you hold forwards for a split second then back you can block stuff at i15 or slower.

maybe in TTT2 they'll make ws+2 15 .
Signature Bruck him for souf east, blud

look man the move doesnt track sidestep, but if you sidestep it will hit you
steves b+1 isint safe because it only auto guards high and mid, but you can cancel it and block all lows
Jaycees u/f+4,3 is launch punishable on block but if you try to punish it the 1 follow-up will hit you
BlackPriest
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#196 “Quote” Edit Post
^ Damn that sucks. So with the poor damage d/b+1, WS+4 does we still have no real option for tech rolls to make the pickup combos a valuable choice...

Yeah, let's hope tech catches return in TTT2. Paul is lacking so much in the post combo oki department in BR.

Thanks for checking anyways.

---

In other news, I found that you can add a d/f+1 in the oki wall combo, meanin you can do a W! b+1,2 B! d/f+1, d+1 into mix-up.

Edit: Meh again, for some reason adding a d/f+1 before the d+1 allows them to tech after the d+1.
It should be noted that you can substitute the qcf+1+2 in the mix-up post d+1 wallcombo with d+2, and the qcf+3+4 with qcb+2 for a really unseeable mix-up (but slighlty lesser damage potential). I think I'll use this mix-up instead in the future.

Added to the guide.

Last edited by BlackPriest on Dec 17th, 2010 at 17:57

Shinjin
Iron Fist God
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 2867
From: England
#197 “Quote” Edit Post
i've got no one to test with but i've had an idea, after the BT d/b+1 i'm guessing you could do a long range throw and it would be back throw,, the only way to escape it would be to hold D or d/b in which case d/b+1, deathfist, or ff+2,1 would be guarneed.

So you sould still have a mix up but nothing guarnteed.
Signature Bruck him for souf east, blud

look man the move doesnt track sidestep, but if you sidestep it will hit you
steves b+1 isint safe because it only auto guards high and mid, but you can cancel it and block all lows
Jaycees u/f+4,3 is launch punishable on block but if you try to punish it the 1 follow-up will hit you
BlackPriest
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#198 “Quote” Edit Post
You were right, noodalls just tested this:

http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/forum...381#post4321381

If I get this straigt it takes 7 frames to turn around and block, so if d/b+1 grants the same frame advantage on BT opponents than it does if you hit them from the front (+6) everything slower than i12 can get blocked.

Very interesting ideas, but I really don't know if I would be willing to sacrifice approx. 25 juggle damage for two consecutive 50/50s (a chance of only 25 % of doing the right thing) in a match...

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