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ESP
Warrior
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 156
#1061 “Quote” Edit Post
^ yeah..

"11~f: recovery increased by 8f, input window for moves during har changed 30f to 37f"
"d2~f: recovery increased by 8f, input window for moves during har changed from 30f to 37f"

and

"444~f: recovery increased by 17f, input window for moves during har changed from 34f to 50f"

.. this probably means they've taken into account the fact that's it's -10 so that the har options would still work on block..
Signature 2P account of LJE.
Johnnay
Cool,Calm,Collected
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2373
From: Australia
#1062 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by mach one
i doubt it. the transition to harrier cancels the recovery animation of 444 so it shouldn't matter.

444f should still be -1 on block.


Oh.. I donít know Kat much though, so havenít experimented on her but given Williams df+3,2 transition to qcf takes away 2 frames on hit/block thought the same applies to Kat
Signature 'We'd only been married a short time. By now she's been dead longer than I knew her. I still haven't really forgiven myself for the Mona business, but I knew that was just grief. The insanity that comes with losing the life you had just built. Michelle.. I missed her with every part of my being. I hated the world for not killing me with her, and I hated myself for allowing this to happen to her, and our little girl. But I knew I had to leave town"
Max Payne.
WeaponX
Iron Fist God
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1395
PSN: X_Copies
#1063 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by mach one
i doubt it. the transition to harrier cancels the recovery animation of 444 so it shouldn't matter.

444f should still be -1 on block.


I was too tired to even think about the math with this. If this is true, then wouldn't he be better to just do 444~f~d then block when you don't see a CH?
mach one
Virtuoso
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 218
#1064 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by WeaponX
I was too tired to even think about the math with this. If this is true, then wouldn't he be better to just do 444~f~d then block when you don't see a CH?

no. 444~f~d is currently -19.

even with the improved cancel, it should still be -17.
WeaponX
Iron Fist God
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1395
PSN: X_Copies
#1065 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by mach one
no. 444~f~d is currently -19.

even with the improved cancel, it should still be -17.


I'm going to puke. I just hope I can land those combos after ch4 alone tomorrow.
mach one
Virtuoso
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 218
#1066 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Johnnay
Oh.. I donít know Kat much though, so havenít experimented on her but given Williams df+3,2 transition to qcf takes away 2 frames on hit/block thought the same applies to Kat

nah man. there's no universal rules regarding transitions in tekken. even with the same char.

e.g. kat's b1 is -9 on block while d2 is -11, but b1f and d2f are both +3.
mach one
Virtuoso
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 218
#1067 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by ESP
^ yeah..

"11~f: recovery increased by 8f, input window for moves during har changed 30f to 37f"
"d2~f: recovery increased by 8f, input window for moves during har changed from 30f to 37f"

and

"444~f: recovery increased by 17f, input window for moves during har changed from 34f to 50f"

.. this probably means they've taken into account the fact that's it's -10 so that the har options would still work on block..

also, 34 is now a spin move, and 3 hits lower.

when would these changes be useful? i'm thinking: CH 444f~d, ws34 S!

since you are forced to use 444f more, they have to give you a spin option.
WeaponX
Iron Fist God
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1395
PSN: X_Copies
#1068 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by mach one
also, 34 is now a spin move, and 3 hits lower.

when would these changes be useful? i'm thinking: CH 444f~d, ws34 S!

since you are forced to use 444f more, they have to give you a spin option.



It's useful to catch ling when she's in AOP~d. I never tried punishing with this but perhaps punishing will work 100% blocking staggered lows like Nina's wtf. Could also catch side rollers. Just only useful in odd situations. I like the fact that her ws3 is her new 14 frame punisher for both standing and wsing
mach one
Virtuoso
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 218
#1069 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by WeaponX
It's useful to catch ling when she's in AOP~d. I never tried punishing with this but perhaps punishing will work 100% blocking staggered lows like Nina's wtf. Could also catch side rollers. Just only useful in odd situations. I like the fact that her ws3 is her new 14 frame punisher for both standing and wsing

it's a 14f punisher for sure.

but it only spins on counter or air hit, not as a punisher. so it must have other uses.

also, speaking of punishers, ff24 works from FC as well. if that shit is not seriously slowed down, kat will be the most imba character in tekken history.
mach one
Virtuoso
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 218
#1070 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by WeaponX
I'm going to puke. I just hope I can land those combos after ch4 alone tomorrow.

yeah well, they can't just let you go straight to FC mixup after a failed CH attempt. other people wanna win too.

that said, if you can scare your opponent enough with harrier mixup. you can still go into FC once in a while. don't let the frame data scare you. the opponent cannot confirm and punish. they have to guess.
ESP
Warrior
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 156
#1071 “Quote” Edit Post
^ This reminds me a lot of Lili's df3+4 rock paper scissor type scenario. If she doesn't commit to press a button (harrier move), the opponent is free to punish her with 10f. If she chooses to duck (harrier fc), she could get launched.

ó

Don't slow down ff24, instead make the second hit launch only on CH. We already have hopkick and uf3+4 for bigger punishes. A faster option is good.

ó

We already have screw options after 444~f like ó 444~f har1, df1, ff4 S!..

What if instead of 444~fd, ws34 S!.. We get 444~fd, ws4, df24 S!.

34 hitting after har 1 is also likely. 444~f har1, 34 S!

ó

I wonder how the faster har crouch recovery will affect existing combos. This combo might become easier:

launch, d2~fd, ws4, mdash df1, df24, dash, 444~f (68 damage + oki + wall carry)
Signature 2P account of LJE.
mach one
Virtuoso
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 218
#1072 “Quote” Edit Post
confirmed:

444f1 crushes jab.

444f3 crushes dick jab. 444f,uf3 same.

44444 beats 12f. last hit knocks down.

444 is +4 on hit now.

b1f1 and d2f1 still beat jabs.

b1f~d~b: -13 on block.

b11 knocks down on NH. can wall splat. doesn't seem to be worth the -12 tho.

33333 14f punisher 38 dmg. last hit on CH knocks down same as ff3, free ub4.

ff24 can punish 14f. 13f doesn't seem possible. ff24 S! ff, d2f1, 444f4 = 74dmg.

f4d,df4 much smoother. on CH same knock down as CH df3+4, free stomp.

b4,3+4 8f gap. ssr doesn't work. ssl doesn't dodge last kick. -12s on block. last kick on NH and CH same knock down as ff3, free ub4.

b4,1+2 gets free ub4 on NH b4, same as f1+2. but not on CH b4.

b4 pushback on block only nerfed at tip range. still annoying as fuck.

CH (d3)4 same knock down as f1+2, free ub4.

2+4, ub4 seems impossible now.

CH (11)1 knocks down same as 113, free ub4.

CH (11)2 crumple stun. d2f~d, ws4, 34S! ff, b4,3+4 = 59dmg.

f3: still 6f low crush, NH +5s, CH launches, db2, ws34 S! ff, df1, d2f1, ub4 = 64dmg.

har 2: NH -2s, CH launches.

har 3: NH knocks down same as CH, free stomp.

har df1+2 sneaky as fuck.

Last edited by mach one on Sep 6th, 2018 at 04:30

WeaponX
Iron Fist God
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1395
PSN: X_Copies
#1073 “Quote” Edit Post
Kat has a wave dash now
ESP
Warrior
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 156
#1074 “Quote” Edit Post
She's really good. Someone make a new thread.

HAR df1+2 (grab) from b1 and d2 is uninterruptable
Signature 2P account of LJE.
WeaponX
Iron Fist God
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1395
PSN: X_Copies
#1075 “Quote” Edit Post
I'm so relieved that you can still combo with just ch4. just ff~n 2 df1 df24 !s. Her ff24 is sickening! So much buffs that I could hardly keep track. Did b4 ever hit grounded?
ESP
Warrior
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 156
#1076 “Quote” Edit Post
Yeah b4 did always hit grounded. b43+4 doe snot
Signature 2P account of LJE.
WeaponX
Iron Fist God
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1395
PSN: X_Copies
#1077 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by ESP
Yeah b4 did always hit grounded. b43+4 doe snot


Ok because it's a good follow up after the stomp from the wall combo. can't side roll right from it.


GUYS I HAVE A IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT.

You can easily combo with just ch4. Dash up and do b1~f.

You're welcome
Robdrop
6th Dan
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 63
From: Germany
PSN: ROBDROP
#1078 “Quote” Edit Post
Found a more damaging juggle for f3 on ch:

CH f3, d3, df1, 22 S! dash df1, d2f har4 (67 dmg)


Big wall carry with ff2,4:

ff2,4 S! dash, b1f har1, df1, d2f har4
Signature Dark Adonis? - I'll call you Mid Boss
WeaponX
Iron Fist God
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1395
PSN: X_Copies
#1079 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Robdrop
Found a more damaging juggle for f3 on ch:

CH f3, d3, df1, 22 S! dash df1, d2f har4 (67 dmg)


That doesn't work on small characters. I found that combo as well but had Anna as a dummy as one point to study her new shenanigans and decided to do that combo on her and df1 wiffed.



Originally posted by Robdrop
Big wall carry with ff2,4:

ff2,4 S! dash, b1f har1, df1, d2f har4


replace b1 with d2
GosTanMan
Deity
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 651
From: Malaysia
#1080 “Quote” Edit Post
You can now do 1,df1,3,3,3,3,3 at the wall consistently.

I tested on males, Nina, Anna and Master Raven. Haven't tested on Ling yet.

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