Tekken 7 Dragunov

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sandilord
Destructive Impulse
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2093
From: Netherlands
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#41 “Quote” Edit Post
Hey guys! It's all Azaael and Tyler in here these days With T7 I'll be coming back to Drag again as well. In Tag he just didn't work for me somehow.
Having said that, I'm kind of underwhelmed by his lack of new stuff. He's got 1 new move (2 if you count his powercrush). And uf2 looks good on paper but it seems too slow to be one of his better moves. He hasn't changed much from T6 and that's years ago. He still does a lot of damage though, like that.

Has anyone seen the CH effect of (f2)4 yet? What does it do? And does f3~df etc have a use a juggles? Rarely see it being used but I haven't watched a whole lot of Drag vids yet.
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Joined: Mar 2008
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#42 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by sandilord
Hey guys! It's all Azaael and Tyler in here these days With T7 I'll be coming back to Drag again as well. In Tag he just didn't work for me somehow.
Having said that, I'm kind of underwhelmed by his lack of new stuff. He's got 1 new move (2 if you count his powercrush). And uf2 looks good on paper but it seems too slow to be one of his better moves. He hasn't changed much from T6 and that's years ago. He still does a lot of damage though, like that.

Has anyone seen the CH effect of (f2)4 yet? What does it do? And does f3~df etc have a use a juggles? Rarely see it being used but I haven't watched a whole lot of Drag vids yet.


CH (f+2),4 is still the same kind of stun, but I think you can pick them up with d+2, WS+4, b+1,2. But last time I played, I just ended with d+4,3, but it seems to flip them on the right side.

f+3~df juggle is very limited, you can use it to wall carry if you want, but the new tail spin kinda does it's job and does more damage.

Well we recently notice Drag, has db+3~1+2~d cancel his grab
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Azaael
March of Tyranny
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 3652
From: Finland
#43 “Quote” Edit Post
Well, my opinions(i haven't gotten to play the game-I'm going by videos, frame pages, chat, etc.)-

He may lack new a ton of new stuff, but he's so strong from everything I've seen/read/heard/studied in this, everything from translated blogs to odds and ends to raw 'holy shit what just happened'.

I've been going over the videos and he's up there with some of the most damaging combos of the game-Hwoarang seems to take the top spot so far in this in terms of raw, easy to get combo damage, but Dragunov is absolute beast here with brute strength(don't forget stuff like his little 2-3 hits-like b+1+2, stomp-which rip 1/3+ of a life bar off.) I like what he can seemingly do with the tech-flop game so far.

I have his buffs/nerfs listed in the other thread(hmm, might be good to compile), but I'll copy them here for you real fast:

b+1+2 now +6 on block(up from +3/+4, buff)

qcf+2 now -13 on block(down from -14, buff)

qcb+2 now -13 on block(down from -15, buff)

WS 1+2 now -15 on block(up from -14, nerf)

WR2 now +5-6 on block(up from +4-6, buff)

f,f+2 now -11-10? on block(POSSIBLY down from -12-11, buff)-this one seems iffy so take it with an extra grain of salt than the rest but it is there

Pressure Ridge(u-u/f+2, new launcher) possibly -7 on block(move is buffed regardless from it's old format)

d/b+3's CH damage buffed(do not know the exact numbers yet but it does around 40% damage NOTE: Could be a result of life total change but it does 40% regardless).

d/b+3 gives full combo on NH, on axis, no funny business needed(buffed)

d/b+3 now staggers on block(move is overall absolutely buffed, this was needed to balance it out)

d/b+3 now i25, 25~26 from afar. Frame nerf, most likely due to the overall strength of the move(full combo, massive damage on CH) and they seem to be hitting 'big power lows' in a similar manner.

Just Discovered: db+3~1+2 is now apparently cancellable. (positive change which one would call a buff)

d+3, 4 is reverted to it's pre Tekken Revolution status(technically nerf from Revo)


Here's his ina frame page:

http://seesaawiki.jp/w/inatekken/d/...%b5%bbT7


(rbnorway hasn't updated with the db+3 frame nerf.)

His pressure game just seems insane now. He's still being played by Nobi, JDCR has had him played as his most played guy he mentioned in the last stream and every time I watch a vid to pull combos off of it I want to play this version of him badly.


He does indeed have f3~df, but it is used less(I have a combo page going if you want to check out examples. For one he has f+1+2, S!, b+2,1, f+1, f+3~df CDc, f+1, f+3~df CDc, f+1+2, just to pull one off the list, but yeah, it's used less.) There is a combo where it's used three times.
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I scribbled a Tekken Retrospective.
Originally posted by Kane:
they named it matterhorn because lili's uphill battle in tekken is the highest mountain to climb.
tyler2k
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#44 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by sandilord
Hey guys! It's all Azaael and Tyler in here these days With T7 I'll be coming back to Drag again as well. In Tag he just didn't work for me somehow.
Having said that, I'm kind of underwhelmed by his lack of new stuff. He's got 1 new move (2 if you count his powercrush). And uf2 looks good on paper but it seems too slow to be one of his better moves. He hasn't changed much from T6 and that's years ago. He still does a lot of damage though, like that.

Has anyone seen the CH effect of (f2)4 yet? What does it do? And does f3~df etc have a use a juggles? Rarely see it being used but I haven't watched a whole lot of Drag vids yet.
Wb Sandi

Yeah, overall I agree. Compared to pretty much every other character, Dragunov really didn't get anything new. Regarding "new" moves, 1+2 was nerfed and u/f+2 is a necessary change but hasn't actually changed how Dragunov is played. So yeah, he doesn't have anything exciting in T7.

With that being said, Dragunov is fucking ridiculous in T7. His frame nerfs have been reverted and his damage output is through the roof. Azaael has a good starting point with Dragunov's changes in T7.

Overall he plays just like a hybrid between T6 and TTT2. The entry barrier for playing Dragunov at mid+ level has been broken so my guess is we'll see a ton more people picking him up. Otherwise in the new meta, we'll see how the new flooring mechanic works and evolves. Right now that's where the truly unexplored juice is.
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khronos
Kyu
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 9
From: United Kingdom
#45 “Quote” Edit Post
I was watching some T7 Dragunov today and I think that CH d/b+3 damage has been scaled down

Being also super seeable now, what is left for this move?

The only interesting/useful thing about it now is the throw cancellation?

Edit: I'm not sure about the CH damage thing, sometimes it looks like it still does the crazy 40ish.

Last edited by khronos on May 15th, 2015 at 21:30

Azaael
March of Tyranny
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 3652
From: Finland
#46 “Quote” Edit Post
Do you have a link? I'd like to see it. Was it a fresh video today? I had watched a few videos post-patch and IIRC it had still been doing damage as usual.
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I scribbled a Tekken Retrospective.
Originally posted by Kane:
they named it matterhorn because lili's uphill battle in tekken is the highest mountain to climb.
khronos
Kyu
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 9
From: United Kingdom
#47 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Azaael
Do you have a link? I'd like to see it. Was it a fresh video today? I had watched a few videos post-patch and IIRC it had still been doing damage as usual.


Watch Knee's Stream from 15/4 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9DHCuk4Cn_s

In one of the first (maybe the first) matches against Kazuya it looks kinda not so devastating. Then a few minutes down against Claudio, the "holy shit" damage is back. It's probably just my eyes not getting it right
Azaael
March of Tyranny
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 3652
From: Finland
#48 “Quote” Edit Post
Oh, I wouldn't worry then. That's an older vid, i've seen it take the WTF damage since then in a few recent streams(I don't sadly have links offhand, though I did post a couple of recent videos in the match forum.)

FWIW I've seen it do seemingly different damage once or twice too come to think of it. But it seems safe for now. I'm guessing that now that they've chosen to slow it down, they may skip any damage nerfs. Will see over time of course.
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I scribbled a Tekken Retrospective.
Originally posted by Kane:
they named it matterhorn because lili's uphill battle in tekken is the highest mountain to climb.
tyler2k
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Posts: 2794
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#49 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by khronos
I was watching some T7 Dragunov today and I think that CH d/b+3 damage has been scaled down

Being also super seeable now, what is left for this move?
The good news is that d/b+3 never was what won games. Having a launching low would have been huge but it being nerfed (or shit, losing it maybe all together) is honestly not a big deal. If you look at the other changes, namely frames ones, the Dragunov meta is going to change tremendously when people realize he's closer to T6 than TTT2 again. Once Drag players make the leap, I doubt it's going to make a huge difference.

Otherwise, I'm going to do some major fucking theory crafting before Evo. I'll post my theoretical findings in the next few months.
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Azaael
March of Tyranny
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 3652
From: Finland
#50 “Quote” Edit Post
That's right, EVO is basically right around the corner. Looking forward to reading those findings indeed.(I've been trying to scribble down stuff for ideas about the flop-bound game since that right now is just a whole lot of speculating and exploring but I always end up sitting on the page rather than doing anything with it.)

And yeah, looking some more, FWIW, the move still has it's full combo/all the damage attached to it, if it matters. Move'll have it's uses still I think but they do seem bent on turning these lows into 'snake edges' in terms of speed and safety. If that's the direction the game's going then just have to shift a little with it.

I will say b+1+2 being +6-given that means anything 15 or less will beat out all attack options. b+1+2 isn't the world's fastest move but it'll probably teach people not to press buttons very quickly.
Signature

I scribbled a Tekken Retrospective.
Originally posted by Kane:
they named it matterhorn because lili's uphill battle in tekken is the highest mountain to climb.

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