Yoshi in BR [FAQ 1st post] (updated:3/18/09)

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HeartHunter
Legend
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 503
From: Singapore
#761 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by NoodleHead
Sword spin is parriable, or reversable. fyi.

some characters get nasty stuff... while yoshi's casually spinning his sword, Feng can walk in, does his parry, and stand in front of Yoshi w/ sword going through him like nothing happens. And of course, yoshi would have to wait for a second to cancel his spin while Feng slowly charges his unblockable.


Sounds evil

But bb+1+4~1(~bb) is 'the only' thing that is 'somewhat guaranteed' near wall.

Now even less sense to do 1+2+3 and those silly stuff. NSS 1+2+3 is great despite its lack of range... it wallsplats somewhat!

Jin's 123 and 124 is so... meh (only seen 1 Jin out of a dozen using it as a setup), but in this case b+1+2 is good to know, prolly works reliably too.
Signature : HeartHunter just broke up with me *cries* He and everybody hates my hair.
: Well you still got me to hang with *cuddles around Lili, but look away from her hair*
*stunned* Lee, don't you tell me that you forgot my 'hair' *fluffling n fluffling like in a shampoo commercial*
*sighs* No~no~no-ways... beautiful *smacks* *smacks*
NoodleHead
will touch u gently
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 17047
From: USA North Carolina
PSN: TastyPPJuice
#762 “Quote” Edit Post
yeah, but the thing is, not many people know about it.


Anyway, a properly-spaced b,b+1+2 is also good against opponents near wall. The optimum distance is at where a generic d/f+4 misses. At max range it hits high, but anything less than max range is still mid. It would do wonders after u+3+4 on block, but just make sure that you backdash a bit further before doing the move. Also, I am wondering how effective it is to do badbreath~u/f+3 near wall. Is it possible for opponent to duck and then block? or once they duck by the wall they are done for?


I use 1+2+3 as a timing mixup along w/ b,b+1+4~1 and b,b+1+4~1~b,b. If you do them in the mid range against any competent opponents who had never fought you before, almost ALL opponents I have faced ran into the non-delayed b,b+1+4. After just once, it should be enough to mix up the timing, considering that your opponent will have to wait til seeing you finish your spin, when you know by head which one you have done. As a result, you can set up the mental frame from a whiffed attack, with your opponent likely within the striking range (outside of the jab range, which is actually Yoshi's optimum range).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q97WcxcX5mU#t=3m0s (the match was like, 1 week after the game came out, so I was still very rusty)
HeartHunter
Legend
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 503
From: Singapore
#763 “Quote” Edit Post
Need somebody to post a topic of all F! and wallbreak moves... I had filler B! d/f+3,1 F!, was kinda shocked.

Anyways for those stage specific and less common combos, some from videos, some from personal matches, wasn't sure if this should be in the juggle thread, no PS3 yet, think such combos can still be refined somewhat.

F! from throw (qcb+1+2 or throw on BT opponent). Or from NSS KIN 1 hit on grounded opponent, etc. Or from u+3+4, f+1+2 or d/f+2,2, f+1+2, etc.

F! b+2,1~1+2 KIN f+2 (consistent)
F! d/f+1, f+1, f+3+4, FLE 2

F! from launcher, d/f+1,2, f+1+2 B!

F! f+3+4, FLE 2
F! iWS 2,1,3

F! from anything else (i.e. alot of fillers, f+1+2 B! f+1+2 F!)

F! b+2,1
F! ff+1+2 (is BT d+1 guaranteed after this?)
F! d/b+3,3,f+4

Wallbreak via f+4 a standing opponent at wall etc.
d/f+1, 2, f+1+2 B! f+3+4 FLE 2
1+2 KIN 2,1+2 B! b+2,1~1+2 KIN f+2 (not consistent)

Wallbreak via f+4 a freshly W! opponent etc.
ff+3+4 B! b+2,1~1+2 KIN f+2
iWS 1+2, f+1+2 B! f+3+4, FLE 2

Wallbreak via f+4 a W! opponent after a lengthly combo etc.
b+2,1
1+2 KIN 2,1+2 (not consistent)
ff+1+2 (is BT d+1 guaranteed after this?)
u/f+3+4,...
4~3
U/Fn+4
f+3+4
DRG 4 (if 3~4~u is used for wallbreak)

4~3 on heavily off-axis or BTed opponents:
ff+3+4 B! b+2,1~1+2 KIN f+2
ff+4, F+1, f+1+2 B! b+2,1_f+3+4

u/f+1+2~B
d/b+3,3,3,3,3,f+4 (WEAK)
d+2,2, d/b+4 (inconsistent)
d/f+1+2,2

1+2, KIN 2,1+2 B! all doable after CH bb+1+4~1+2, CH ff+3, CH f+2 and CH DRG 4

Still searching for good off-axis d/f+2,2 and ff+4 juggles...

Also for juggles, I have troubles connect B! b+2,1 near wall against opponent floated in BT or off-axis.

Any strong or reliable post WB! moves in this case except d/f+3,HOLD1 or d/b+33s?

Last edited by HeartHunter on Dec 4th, 2009 at 19:26

Signature : HeartHunter just broke up with me *cries* He and everybody hates my hair.
: Well you still got me to hang with *cuddles around Lili, but look away from her hair*
*stunned* Lee, don't you tell me that you forgot my 'hair' *fluffling n fluffling like in a shampoo commercial*
*sighs* No~no~no-ways... beautiful *smacks* *smacks*
Kazu-Yoshi-girl
a.k.a Tenshimitsu
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2007
From: Poland
PSN: Tenshimitsu
#764 “Quote” Edit Post
I'm after the tournament.

I played better than expected, I lost to characters I didn't now anything about (Alisa, Miguel), so maximizing Yoshi is the matter of extensive "versus" knowledge.

Gonna focus on Inca's Yoshi bible and contribute a lot, guys.

And BTW, Yoshi is basics, basics, basics, basics, punishment, whiff-punishment, patience, hunting for f,f+4 and murdering at the wall.

Also, random d/f+2,2 is great (especially on SS because it tracks pretty well), I can eat the punishment without regret if I fail because the reward is much better.
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Yoshimattsu
Master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 189
From: USA Montana
PSN: Yoshimattsu
XBL: Party Hat Matt
#765 “Quote” Edit Post
Great job! Glad to hear you did well!!
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PhineBuyM3
Fujin
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 592
From: USA Texas
#766 “Quote” Edit Post
What does namco want people to do with yoshimirsu in this game? after weeks of trying to shut up and play I come to a few more problems with yoshi, 1)His poking is piss poor, 2)He deals little damage compared to everyone else.I dont know if it's just me but it feels like I have to fight my opponents mind instead of his character, and I take back saying db3,3,3 works on bulldogs, once I'm bulldogged I just call it quits and formulate my strategy for the next round. Namco should either patch this game to fix all the characters(and tone a few that actually deserve to be nerfed) or give TK6.0 as dlc.
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Kazu-Yoshi-girl
a.k.a Tenshimitsu
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2007
From: Poland
PSN: Tenshimitsu
#767 “Quote” Edit Post
Yoshimitsu's stances are outdated. They have changed everything but stances. That's why Yoshi feels limited. I almost don't use FLE... DGF has little moves... They nerfed MED ... IND can be hit by high moves... KIN doesn't crouch punches... 1SS<->NSS transitions are limited.

They should work on fluent and quick Yoshi's stance transitions, and more cancels, more BT cancels as well. My dream is spins -> BT cancel.

And what for that massive disadvantage after b+3 or b+4?? >_>

BTW, on b+1,1,~b+3/b+4, disadvantage is shorter from what I feel.

As for poking, use 2,2 a bit more. These punches are underestimated, only -1 on block, no one ducks under second, they allow you for a quick retreat and a possible whiff punishment if opponent wants to chase you, and it's also a nice throw setup on hit.

Last edited by Kazu-Yoshi-girl on Dec 14th, 2009 at 09:13

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HeartHunter
Legend
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 503
From: Singapore
#768 “Quote” Edit Post
I know more than one person who ducks my 2(blocked),2 xD

But 2,2 on hit.. qcb+1+2 is there...

Further analysis of IND 3,3+4 (opponent techs) bb+1+4 showed that it is not a guaranteed tech-trap (to the sides).

custom strings...,b+3_4 (opponent whiff), d/f+2,2 seems like the only good way to go, the SS properties of b+3_4 feels like its packaged with backdashing properties of sort, so u/f+3 punishing whiffs seems pretty unlikely.

That mean small whiffs mostly go unpunished even if b+3_b+4 does successful evade, you have ff+4 but I think you would then have to deal with off-axis ff+4 juggles (which is bleh).

d/b+333s spammage is still there for Yoshi to barely survive competition... Unless the opponent is rational, d/b+3s are there to annoy the hell out of them, makes them let loose their rage (and also their mistakes).

Recently there's some opponents attempt to sidestep away from my ff+4.... must be some joker who keep spamming ff+4s... spoiling the 'market'
Signature : HeartHunter just broke up with me *cries* He and everybody hates my hair.
: Well you still got me to hang with *cuddles around Lili, but look away from her hair*
*stunned* Lee, don't you tell me that you forgot my 'hair' *fluffling n fluffling like in a shampoo commercial*
*sighs* No~no~no-ways... beautiful *smacks* *smacks*
Kazu-Yoshi-girl
a.k.a Tenshimitsu
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2007
From: Poland
PSN: Tenshimitsu
#769 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by HeartHunter
I know more than one person who ducks my 2(blocked),2 xD


Show me the fights. They must be very good!
Even Otokonoko's opponents don't do this often.

Or you didn't train them to stand still?
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HeartHunter
Legend
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 503
From: Singapore
#770 “Quote” Edit Post
Getting them to duck is my strategy... I bet my arcade credit on it!

d/b+3s all the way... if they start ducking...
Signature : HeartHunter just broke up with me *cries* He and everybody hates my hair.
: Well you still got me to hang with *cuddles around Lili, but look away from her hair*
*stunned* Lee, don't you tell me that you forgot my 'hair' *fluffling n fluffling like in a shampoo commercial*
*sighs* No~no~no-ways... beautiful *smacks* *smacks*
Inca
(=' 3 ')=
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 1524
From: USA Florida
PSN: xxIncaxx
#771 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Kazu-Yoshi-girl
Show me the fights. They must be very good!
Even Otokonoko's opponents don't do this often.

Or you didn't train them to stand still?


people here duck 2,2s on block, ws+2,1s, ws+1,2s, they SS d/f+4s. once your comp gets to this point you gotta learn to only do single input strings. And you gotta do d/f+4s only when you know they can't step or block.
Signature slaughtering you with love taps.
HeartHunter
Legend
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 503
From: Singapore
#772 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Inca
people here duck 2,2s on block, ws+2,1s, ws+1,2s, they SS d/f+4s. once your comp gets to this point you gotta learn to only do single input strings. And you gotta do d/f+4s only when you know they can't step or block.


Woah... if they actually SS against my d/f+4 on purpose... I'd might have to consider quitting Tekken.

Not that I use d/f+4 much... But I can envision the point that d/f+4 spam would probably reduce my fighting chance even further, since opponent would now have more incentive to actually SS more often at close range when pitbulling.

And even for d/b+3s, I had to space properly upfront to prevent getting random-hopkicked. Well my opponent did learn, but they can't do shit about d/b+3s xD
Signature : HeartHunter just broke up with me *cries* He and everybody hates my hair.
: Well you still got me to hang with *cuddles around Lili, but look away from her hair*
*stunned* Lee, don't you tell me that you forgot my 'hair' *fluffling n fluffling like in a shampoo commercial*
*sighs* No~no~no-ways... beautiful *smacks* *smacks*
Kazu-Yoshi-girl
a.k.a Tenshimitsu
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2007
From: Poland
PSN: Tenshimitsu
#773 “Quote” Edit Post
Well, that was exactly my point... these moves cannot be done blindly. My sparring partners also duck 2,2, WS+1,2 (I hardly ever use this), WS+1,1(I prefer this because of possible b+3/b+4 escape), 4,4 and other signalized highs but only if I abused them a bit. (By abusing I mean repeating it a mere 2 or 3 times in short periods of time, not neccessarily one after another.)

2,1 is a decent mix up with 2,2 because of similar timings, but even better is 2,2, then single 2, and backdash/SS. I've played against top players doing the iWS launchers under highs for extreme quick punishment, it must be done so quick that they cannot see whether the second blow actually came off or not - it's an opportunity for SSing/backdashing the WS move and whiff-punishing. Some WS moves cannot be sidestepped in some directions, though (Law's WS+1,2).

Hmm, maybe that's why my opponents sometimes prefer to stand still and block?

The "damn I'm so skilled" mixup, highly dangerous but humiliating when it hits, is a 2,2 and 2,3 mixup. It's for people you know will want to WS punish the second punch, but instead they get hit with a kick during WS move because of different timing. But you have to know your opponent very well, and it's rather for fun than for actual serious use.

Also, we have to make a division between ducking (2),2 and the whole 2,2. I have the whole 2,2 ducked more often than only a second blow.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm also almost sure that 2,2 can be delayed similarly to 2,3, or at least the input can be delayed. I've got to test it.

I have never had 2,2 ducked under when I do 2,2 for the first time, it's a bit of a suprising string. When I do a single 2 though, my opponents seem to be more prepared for 2,2.

As for d/f+4, I rarely do it when enclosed in close quarters battle, the risk is too high. I use it rather as a keep-away when I see people rushing in.

d/b+3,3s are one of Yoshi best weapons, I also like doing d+3, especially as a long ranged poke or when I predict sidestep in upclose battle, it catches SS pretty well.

Generally, in my opinion spacing is the most important factor in Yoshi's poking game, many times I have to resign from pressing for better positioning.

----

Yeah, Hearthunter, it's better when opponent starts to duck. I feel the same. Because it's we who started to controll fight.

I feel most uncomfortable in a fight when in fact it's my opponent who forces me to guess/predict/duck and doesn't allow me to regain middle-range positioning. It's because I don't have a panic "I evade/crush everything" button, but he has.
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amphreded
Iron Fist God
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1960
From: Thailand
PSN: amphreded
#774 “Quote” Edit Post
Yoshi sucks at close range.

At mid to long range, he's really good with great whiff punishers: ff+4, d/f+1 and b+2 in particular. d/f+1, b+2, 3~4 are excellent pokes and b+2 and 3~4 also have tracking.
d/b+3,3 and u/f+4 also become useful from mid range, both tracks really well. The problem is that a lot of his moves do not create space to maintain his mid/long game, ff+4, d/f+1, 3~4 on block pushes Yoshi in close range, and except for 3~4, he's at disadvantage (though there are mixups). d/b+3,3,4 first two NC to last hit on block grant decent space, but no real advantage. d/f+4 is too steppable to use. His only saving grace on close range is u/f+3 with its good crush property and good risk vs reward ratio.

My game pretty much consists of spacing, and a lot of ff+4. d/f+1 and b+2 using more or less depending on the other player's style. Single 1, 1,1 and 1,2 here and there to keep enemy in check. A lot of well-splaced d/b+3,3 if opponent turtles or use a lot of highs, and especially if they don't have hopkicks (such as Kaz). 3~4 sparsely so when it's used, either on block or hit, opponent would freeze up and this opens up many setups and sidestep bait. A lot of block and punish, even though 1,1 is all we can get from -10 to -14 and puts Yoshi in disadvantage on block, the damage will add up nicely. Well-placed sword sweep, and random ducking in anticipating of high moves to sword sweep or u/f+3. u/f+3 randomly so opponent doesn't go overly aggressive (which is very bad for Yoshi). Strong spacing and sidestep game. ss+1 and ss+2... probably will write more.
Kazu-Yoshi-girl
a.k.a Tenshimitsu
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2007
From: Poland
PSN: Tenshimitsu
#775 “Quote” Edit Post
Yoshi would not suck as much in close range if his d/b+2,2,2s were better. I'm still doing it when facing SS-happy pitbuller, it is good in this case. But the travelling distance is bad. Which sucks.

I fail with a good u/f+3 usage, gonna use this more. It's been too many times I've been hit with punches in midair. I feel comfortable with it only in SS whiff punishing.

Many times when facing a pitbuller I just IND~f and pray Luckily I manage to teleport more often than get hit.

b+2 is a nice poke, but I find it especially dangerous when facing characters relying on high-hitting jugglestarters (Steve).

Gonna play Yoshi now, I'm hungry for more Yoshi action. ^^
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HeartHunter
Legend
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 503
From: Singapore
#776 “Quote” Edit Post
Steve's b+1 is a special case.... only pure "Crush Standing" moves can deal with it...

d/b+2s imo sucked, the hitbox and movement needs alot of rectification to be useful.

u/f+3 I use it as if its my mid poke, works better after blocked d/f+1 or successful d/f+1+2,2, since opponent is closer.

In the case if successful d+2>2, backdashing is not an option, neither is SS, I'd prolly gamble between u/f+3 (crush low, some jabs), u/f+4 (crush some lows, B! hopkicks), d/f+1+2,2 (typical force them to rethink their 'keep standing' strategy), f+11, etc.. Had someone doing a 12f shoulder that either clash or crush all of my options, still getting hit by shoulder in the air (provided I do u/f+3_u/f+4) is worth the risk.

IND is really useful... seriously... on theory it sucked, but when you are dealing with an opponent who are not familiar with punishing IND... it is well worth the effort to IND.

MED however.. still implementing it in my game, so far only got it nicely with after CH ff+2, fn3+4, MED 3, BT 4 to oki options.
Signature : HeartHunter just broke up with me *cries* He and everybody hates my hair.
: Well you still got me to hang with *cuddles around Lili, but look away from her hair*
*stunned* Lee, don't you tell me that you forgot my 'hair' *fluffling n fluffling like in a shampoo commercial*
*sighs* No~no~no-ways... beautiful *smacks* *smacks*
NoodleHead
will touch u gently
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 17047
From: USA North Carolina
PSN: TastyPPJuice
#777 “Quote” Edit Post
IND was an amazing stance back in T5/DR. I felt that the teleport transition seemed to be faster in DR, as I never used to get kicked out of IND teleport as often back then.

BT IND teleport is where the IND teleport shines. A successful usage is pretty much a guaranteed launcher attempt for ya. Because of the possible slow down of moves as well as it being hit by some highs and more mids, I felt that it has been weakened.

Back in DR, I IND to evade my opponent's running flying kick, but I thought that it no longer evades as well in BR?
Inca
(=' 3 ')=
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 1524
From: USA Florida
PSN: xxIncaxx
#778 “Quote” Edit Post
the ind teleport is nice but the prob is it feels like it takes yoshi longer to disappear during his spinning animation. I've been hit out of the teleport well after yoshi has disappeared from his spinning in br. I can't recall that ever happening in dr. at least yoshi recovers from a sucessful teleport faster now tho. I can't imagine how many teleports into d/f+2,2 and cd+1 I've gotten on people I've teleported on from behind.

The one thing that totally irks me tho. if being air thrown from the start up of u/f+3. so annoying. Now THAT I know never happened to me in dr. Same thing applies to u/f+4 actually.
Signature slaughtering you with love taps.
Kazu-Yoshi-girl
a.k.a Tenshimitsu
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2007
From: Poland
PSN: Tenshimitsu
#779 “Quote” Edit Post
Don't worry, Inca - the midair grabbing at the beginning of u/f+3 happened to me in Tekken DR as well. In Tekken 6 though... I don't know... because I rarely use it "in yo face".

I should use it more... :/ Hearthunter's way of thinking should help me: "mid poke". Yeah, nice. It has so little disadvantage that it should be used more.

And yes, after successful IND teleport I usually have a free launcher, which is sweet. ^_^ And just as Hearthunter, I tend to forget that I have MED. I also forget that I have FLE. >_< Gonna train harder.
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NoodleHead
will touch u gently
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 17047
From: USA North Carolina
PSN: TastyPPJuice
#780 “Quote” Edit Post
yeah, my u/f+3 used to get isw'd by King back in DR lol. It sucked.

but I am glad that I wasn't the only one feeling that IND teleport seems slower in this game.


The MED option was weakened thanks to MED 3 no longer being a launcher. The MED 3 also does not have the priority it used to have in DR anymore, so you can't just throw it out like you used to.

I will start and try to put BT ind back into my game now that I am getting used to Yoshi a bit. Let's see how well it will work in BR.


About FLE... do u guys feel taht u/f+3+4 seems harder to go over your grounded opponent in BR? A few places where I did u/f+3+4, it would have crossed over my grounded opponent in DR, but it doesn't in BR.

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