WTF! How can Chreddy have this? Feels Broken :(

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CaCarmen
Iron Fist God
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1078
From: China
PSN: cacacarmen
#81 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by ENHEAS
- Fourth: off axis matters even for this move. If you're not and Eddy player you can't realize how many times a juggle whiffs for no reason. In february 2013 I lost a tourney match in LB because I landed Chb143+4 then wanted to do hsp, 1 B!. I use Bruce in team. That juggle could have granted me victory. But hsp1 whiffed and I lost.


I think you could just use RLX2,4 to bound in this case? I can't imagine that whiffing.

Is it just 110-120? I get 134 with Christie and Hwo...

By the way timing for this move seems to be different in the arcades, the 3+4 has to be done much earlier then in console (it seems). I guess this would explain why you don't see Korean matches with them spamming the move like in certain console matches (like Tokido was doing in these sets of matches http://www.avoidingthepuddle.com/ne...al-archive.html)

I agree b1,4 is a much better way to go into an HSP mixup than f4...
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LuizWsp
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 212
#82 “Quote” Edit Post
It's not that good, and it's not that bad.

Check the videos of pro players in the web theather. Slips, Kari, Misty, Ryuryu... none of them use it. Perhaps once or twice duing a match. If they don't use it, it's for a good reason.

I still use it, it's a very good panic button. It's good against those Nina, Hwo, Miguel players that think they are too good cause they spam jabs and pokes all around, keeping pressure, then suddenly, BANG, 130 damage.

It is very addictive, I either use it next to the walls, when even without the CH the slippery kicks will connect or on players that have half lifebar or so. If they try to tag out, and the the 4 catches the character coming in, slippery kick will hit too. If they stay and try to attack, I get a CH. If they block, I find even the best players fail to punish when their heads are thinking of a way to tag out! So it's kinda good.

Still, every character that get's patient can very much punish it. But there are just so many variables to this move:

* If you go to HSP, you can get punished, but you can use the HSP 4 before them, most of the times, and it wall splats!
* If they block the HSP 4 they will punish you heavily, but you can mix it up with the b+1, 4, 3. (most people will get hit by that one, since they duck waiting for the slippery kicks)
* If they think they can punish b+1,4,3, you can do the extension next time, b+1,4,3,3+4, but it's also unsafe!
* But if they wait for the whole string to connect, they won't punish you if you stop at the half string!

What I actually like to do is go to HSP and do either HSP b+3 (a low that's +7 on hit and a free 50/50 from RLX) or D+3, which is a fast mid into RLX. It's very much punishble also, but the main purpose was to fish for that CH b+1 anyway, so it's the less worse option.

CaCarmen
Iron Fist God
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1078
From: China
PSN: cacacarmen
#83 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by LuizWsp
Check the videos of pro players in the web theather. Slips, Kari, Misty, Ryuryu... none of them use it. Perhaps once or twice duing a match. If they don't use it, it's for a good reason.


Well it doesn't seem to work the same in the arcade... its really hard to see the first hit and press 3+4 in time. Add to the fact that this string for the longest time was NOT ncc (not until a few months ago when the arcade version got patched) then you can understand why its not used as much by those players. Obv. Slips is the exception but I think he said in the tagcast podcast that he's just not used to using it?

So I guess if you take the CH aspect away from it the string isn't that useful (though it has its uses as a way into the risky f4 mixup).

Maybe I should start doing the slippery kicks after f4/b1,4/rlx 2,4 strings. I give my opponents too much credit sometimes

BTW this is old news by now but doing a throw after HSP4 keeps you from being floated... especially useful if you expect certain punishes (like King's l,h string).
Signature "老外的LEI很烦人了"
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numotd
Shihan
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 103
#84 “Quote” Edit Post
you can also do hsp 1 to avoid floats but you might get CH out of it, unlike hsp 3+4...also hsp~tilt is pretty useful after hsp 4 against some characters
LuizWsp
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Posts: 212
#85 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by numotd
you can also do hsp 1 to avoid floats but you might get CH out of it, unlike hsp 3+4...also hsp~tilt is pretty useful after hsp 4 against some characters


whats hsp tilt?

@cacarmen, nice tip, i'm gonna look for it.

The tip I can give you in return is: I often use the slippery kicks from the b+1 (without the CH) when I have a large advantage on the opponent. If I land it, it's KO, if they block and punish, at least I gave them a message to look for the low string, even if I don't get the CH. If the other players is just pressing B, you might whiff the second hit tho.

Another varation is to go to HSP, the opponent will cease to block low, and THEN I do the slippery kicks with 3~4, it confuses them.

Now, against turtles, try doing nothing on the HSP and let it go to RLX, that confuses their mind too. "Omg I was supposed to have punished that, I'm gonna punish him right n... omg slippery kicks"
CaCarmen
Iron Fist God
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Posts: 1078
From: China
PSN: cacacarmen
#86 “Quote” Edit Post
He means HSPu_d, which actually does have some evasive properties. Even if you do manage to get floated, Eddy will be at angle so the opponent may not even be able to finish his juggle, so its good to remember, plus its very stylish! I should remember to use it more.

Well slippery kicks is still seeable, though it is harder to see in HSP. So I have a habit of not using it too much. But I guess I should use it a bit more, since it will interrupt opponents who want to punish and any f4 string on hit is NC into it....

Actually something I just discovered today (and someone can correct me if I'm wrong) is that the second to third hit of the f4,3,3+4 string is ncc? Actually now that I think of it this is much, much better than HSP4 to keep opponents from interrupting a f4 transition:
- Even though framewise a HSP4 should be uninterruptable, it messes up occassionally due to random axis issues.
- On hit (in the open) it doesn't do much damage and leaves the opponent too far away too pressure thier getup (I like to do a HSP2 after HSP4 on hit to close in the distance, but its still just a LITTLE too far away, at least for Christie. If it was a tiny bit closer you could force a nice mixup on opponents who stay down or tech roll with fcdf4 and any mid...)
- On block it leaves you in that weird position where you're minus in HSP :/ The HSP throw and HSP1 can be used to avoid a float punish but even those could be baited... (also now that I think of it, HSP4 actually has an extension into ... slippery kicks again. I wonder if that is interuptable if HSP4 is blocked...)

So if (f4),3,3+4 really is ncc then it should be the option of choice to keep people from interrupting a f4 transition, the second hit is only -12 (no getting floated into a juggle), crazy damage plus a knockdown with VERY good options (b3,d2 and d4 string guaranteed on opponents who stand or backroll, b3+4 can be used to hit lie down etc.) It also gives that huge spark on CH, so it may even be HC... I'll look into this tomorrow.

Yeah, I like to do that HSP f into RLX on non moving opponents too. Its great because it gives you a free RLX4 on opponents who want to hit you out or jump away, or a RLX mixup on more timid opponents. HSPb3 is really good, HSP3d is also one I have started using more. Heck, sometimes even HSP3 works on opponents who duck HSP on reaction... Also HSP2 is a very, very good mid poke with seemingly good frames, and a silly 50-50 into the extension or just a ws2...
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"你心中怨念深重,怒火冲天门。导致你铁拳技能急速下降"
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LuizWsp
Virtuoso
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Posts: 212
#87 “Quote” Edit Post
I looked into some stuff.

The f+4, 3, 3+4 is NCC, but I don't think it's confirmable and you're at -1 if you stop at the 3 (on hit).The 3+4 is actually -14, not -12.

The b+1,4 has the 4 sidestepable, but you have to be a ninja to do it if you blocked the b+1. If you fail, you'll probably eat the slippery kicks, so ppl won't do it too much.

The HSP throw DOES avoid beeing floated, this is the best capo's news i've heard in a while. It's pure gold!

The HSP+1 does NOT avoid beeing floated, at least from William's d+4,1 or Jin's b+2,1, or Lars 2,1.

The HSP tilt does not avoid beeing floated either, from the William's, d+4+1, or Jin's b+2,1, or Lars 2,1. In the case of the males, it will make the hit get to a funny angle, so it will mess with their combo's if you''re lucky. Doing the tilt with the extension to the low move will definetly crush them, but you got to have balls to do that. Anyway, it's good to keep it in mind.

Another evasive move is HSP+d+3+4 (a launcher). It will crush most of the mids, but again... not William's d+4,1.

The HSP+4 is not interruptable from the William's motherfucking d+4,1 (I hate those bitches). It will trade hits with an oki for the Irish girls.

The HSP+3 is a good mix up with the HSP+b+3 cause the animation is the same.
numotd
Shihan
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 103
#88 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by LuizWsp
I looked into some stuff.

The f+4, 3, 3+4 is NCC, but I don't think it's confirmable and you're at -1 if you stop at the 3 (on hit).The 3+4 is actually -14, not -12.

The b+1,4 has the 4 sidestepable, but you have to be a ninja to do it if you blocked the b+1. If you fail, you'll probably eat the slippery kicks, so ppl won't do it too much.

The HSP throw DOES avoid beeing floated, this is the best capo's news i've heard in a while. It's pure gold!

The HSP+1 does NOT avoid beeing floated, at least from William's d+4,1 or Jin's b+2,1, or Lars 2,1.

The HSP tilt does not avoid beeing floated either, from the William's, d+4+1, or Jin's b+2,1, or Lars 2,1. In the case of the males, it will make the hit get to a funny angle, so it will mess with their combo's if you''re lucky. Doing the tilt with the extension to the low move will definetly crush them, but you got to have balls to do that. Anyway, it's good to keep it in mind.

Another evasive move is HSP+d+3+4 (a launcher). It will crush most of the mids, but again... not William's d+4,1.

The HSP+4 is not interruptable from the William's motherfucking d+4,1 (I hate those bitches). It will trade hits with an oki for the Irish girls.

The HSP+3 is a good mix up with the HSP+b+3 cause the animation is the same.


Are you sure b+1,4 is sidesteappable (even in ninja form)? or is it simply off axis? try to reset position then do b+1,4 and ss...could anyone post a vid that it's ss'able?

yeah william sister's d+4,1 beats a lot of chreddy's hsp mix up...b+1,4~hsp 4 should beat william sister's d+4,1 because we're on +1 but i remember at some distance b+1,4~b hsp doesn't grant you + frames...so maybe that's why you're trading...
CaCarmen
Iron Fist God
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1078
From: China
PSN: cacacarmen
#89 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by LuizWsp
I looked into some stuff.

The f+4, 3, 3+4 is NCC, but I don't think it's confirmable and you're at -1 if you stop at the 3 (on hit).The 3+4 is actually -14, not -12.


I meant the second hit, not the third hit But I guess its not HC (I tried it too) at least if you're looking out for the spark. However, you might be able to catch someone doing a move as you enter HSP and do 3,3+4 on reaction to that. So thats something to look out for.

Also, the forward roll into RLX actually has some evasive properties.

Obviously, we all know about the HSP duck into the launcher, but it doesn't work on all characters. For example, it will go under AK's df1, but it won't avoid King's df4,3 (or similar low starters) or Bob's b2,2. However against low starters like King's df4,3 just do a HSP throw, which won't count as a counter hit, get hit by the low and duck the high and launch

As for Bob's b2,2... just... try not using HSP a lot

The HSP tilt seems to demand you go in the correct direction. I just tried it against Bob, if you tilt to right it will avoid b2,2, but it won't if you tilt to the left (though it will cause his combo to mess up).

I think a key with HSP is experience. Every character has one or two moves they will go to hit you, so its good to remember if you can avoid those moves and how.
Signature "老外的LEI很烦人了"
"还是换人吧"
"你心中怨念深重,怒火冲天门。导致你铁拳技能急速下降"
"我早就说过,你换几个普通角色你就发现你也很弱。。 "
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LuizWsp
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 212
#90 “Quote” Edit Post
@numotd

I'm pretty sure. I've seen it happening to me twice in a match, and I tried like 20 times on practice and I succeded 3 or 4 times, only to my char's right, tho.

Now that we're talking about HSP moves, what are the mix ups you do after a blocked RLX 4~3?
I just spam HSP+4 in a desperate attempt to catch my opponent in a hesitation moment. But it gets old after some time.
Ayos Mishima
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1143
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#91 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by LuizWsp
Now that we're talking about HSP moves, what are the mix ups you do after a blocked RLX 4~3?
I just spam HSP+4 in a desperate attempt to catch my opponent in a hesitation moment. But it gets old after some time.


I'll let it ride in Neutral and then f+3+4 in HSP. Or ride in neutral till you go back in RLX. Or you can hold back after the blocked RLX 4~3 to try and avoid any retaliation they do but you'll probably get hit by it. Some people will d+3+4 in HSP I think that's successful too but I don't do that much.
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Zen_Chaolan
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#92 “Quote” Edit Post
has anyone tried out b+1 to b+3+4 to apply pressure? since we know most people block if they see the b+1 and wait for the 4. I tried it online and it seems to work well enough for about two cycles then mix ups with the b+1,4 for the counter
Ayos Mishima
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#93 “Quote” Edit Post
Not a bad idea man.. thanks for sharing.

b1 to anything is awesome, b1 to throw, b1 to b1, b1 to ss4, b1 backdash, it's my favorite move haha. Only thing is when you play really good players you never see b1,4 thrown out.
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Skeering
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#94 “Quote” Edit Post
Now that TTT2 is approaching its end I think it's safe to say that yes, b1 is broken against all but the very best reactive players.
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Jeneric
Destroyer
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#95 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Skeering
Now that TTT2 is approaching its end I think it's safe to say that yes, b1 is broken against all but the very best reactive players.
I've heard Knee complain about this move. End of story.

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