The Sergei Manifesto

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tyler2k
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#81 “Quote” Edit Post
He may mean the difference between FDFT 3 and FDFT d+3 or it's literally what he's said, the difference between a FDFT 3 input before or during the window opens versus a FDFT 3 after the window opens

But I have no clue
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BlackPriest
Expulsion of Fury
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#82 “Quote” Edit Post
Sorry but I don't get this. Before which frame window opens?

I tested it with lie there into getup kick too (KND the dummy, set it to controller, then positioned myself and set the dummy to 'block all' and 'stand up to xxx-kick' again), couldn't find any difference...
tyler2k
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#83 “Quote” Edit Post
As you suspect, I meant "stand up to xxx-kick" would be a wake-up kick as soon as the frame window opens post KND where as a wake-up kick once the opponent is considered fully grounded might have different properties on block, but if you say you tested it with a separate controller, then that isn't probably what Murakumo.
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BlackPriest
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#84 “Quote” Edit Post
Ah ok, I see now. Well I supposed that was what he meant, but I'm unsure. Murakumo is a TZ member I would blindly trust on almost any info though, so I have doubts...

Just noticed that you already put up the punishers in the 1st post. I hope they are all accurate, let's see what Murakumo replies in that other thread.

However if my testing is correct you might want to edit the sentence underneath the punishers too ("Unfortunately Sergei has no 13-14 frame WS punishment, therefore you're going to have to rely on WS 1,3 or WS 1+2 in order to punish FD wake-up 3."), as FDFA wake-up 3 is launch punishable. Not that you'll get his often in a match, just saying...
LAWZ-Mike
Fujin
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 554
From: USA Texas
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#85 “Quote” Edit Post
Tackle into tech is really not that useful and should only be used occasionally IMO. You might catch an opponent of guard with it once, but usually the only guessing game involved is if you will get hopkicked before the tech roll or after it.


there's no move drag can use to beat a hopkick after tech? or set up counter opportunity?
tyler2k
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#86 “Quote” Edit Post
The tackle animation takes time to perform as well as the cancel takes additional time and finally your command at best will come out in i11 as you're in a WS state. On top of all that the actual roll isn't much of a move to either side, if it was more of a 90 degree move it would be much more viable.

d/b+1+2~1_2_3_4 is gimmicks at best
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LAWZ-Mike
Fujin
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#87 “Quote” Edit Post
I guess drag is just a straight up duke it out type of character, don't see very many gimmicks. Seems like you can get hopkicked from everything. opponent doesn't even have to guess.

And I'm still having trouble finding the max range for WS 3. I was thinking it had a tad bit more range than df+4. I'm starting to try and use it more for people trying get up kicks with their backs against the wall. But it doesn't seem to have and phantom range and people can launch my leg when I barely miss.
Scarydark
6th Dan
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 69
From: USA Louisiana
#88 “Quote” Edit Post
Lawz you know I use iWS 3 for turtlers and their roll back wake up options.
On block, qcb+2.
Signature ....taunt, f+1...or ff+4...
LAWZ-Mike
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From: USA Texas
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#89 “Quote” Edit Post
COUNTER HIT, YA I KNOW!
Cosmic_Castaway
Dark Knight
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1521
From: USA Delaware
PSN: Heavenstrider
#90 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by LAWZ-Mike
I guess drag is just a straight up duke it out type of character, don't see very many gimmicks. Seems like you can get hopkicked from everything. opponent doesn't even have to guess.

qcb+2 is one of the greatest gimmicks in Tekken 6. You can get away with some duuuummmb stuff using this move.

Example 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd5DF-8zDa0#t=40s
Here, my opponent figures out what reaches qcb+2 (Jin d/f+1+2), so I get hit out of it. He then parries my WS4, yet the qcb+2 trap STILL works.

Example 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd5DF-8zDa0#t=50s
Dragunov can completely avoid Jin's homing 4 and punish him for it. My opinion, that's epically dumb evasive properties.

Example 3:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd5DF-8zDa0#t=4m5s
Unlike other evasive launchers, such as Kazuya's b+1+2 or Lars' d/b+1+2, Sergei's qcb+2 counts as an elbow, and launches on NH as well as CH. Here, any other evasive launcher would have been caught by Devil Jin's reversal. Even when my opponent was able to predict qcb+2 coming, he wasn't able to deal with it.

Example 4:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25gc5Vo5Rks#t=4m26s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3usyuC4j1l8#t=9m12s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3usyuC4j1l8#t=11m48s
Instances of qcb+2 punishing someone for pressing too many buttons. Even though Dragunov is at -8 off of WS4 and -4 off of 1,1, if your opponent can't reach qcb+2 (characters like King have a very hard time with this), they better learn to stop attacking too much, or they're going to eat it. qcb+2 is THE move that makes Drag vs. King so in favor of Dragunov.

Now the reason I call qcb+2 a gimmick is, once your opponent knows how to deal with it, you've just lost one of your best setups. Then what do you have? Two safe launchers, some CH stuff, and some pokes. Sort of like a lot of other characters do. The thing that makes qcb+2 so deadly is that it will work on any frame disadvantage up to -8. Other characters don't have something like that. At -8, everyone else has to worry about a mixup from their opponent. Not Dragunov though.

Secondly, though I don't have footage of it, I have seen opponent's moves (such as Steve's d/b+2) go right through Drag during this move, and he has hit and launched them anyway. No collision hit, nothing, the attack just went right through. qcb+2's deceiving animation is what gives it another advantage. If you watch closely, Sergei hardly changes his footing position at all during qcb+2, and just twists his upper body. However, the move will consistently crush almost anything you throw at it, including many lows. Another gimmick in T6 that has these sort of "broken" properties is Lars' u/f+3.

If you're having trouble hitting someone with gimmicks using Drag, I would highly suggest working qcb+2 into your game.
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LAWZ-Mike
Fujin
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Posts: 554
From: USA Texas
PSN: LAWZ-Mike
#91 “Quote” Edit Post
oh yeah I spam the shit out of qcb+2 already. I'm deadly with that move, you can set it up with pretty much anything before it. Well, I take that back. I use it until my opponent makes me stop. I might even throw it out to make the guy hesitate and do something else. I think I've made my mark in Houston with that move.
Cosmic_Castaway
Dark Knight
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1521
From: USA Delaware
PSN: Heavenstrider
#92 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by LAWZ-Mike
I use it until my opponent makes me stop.

Sometimes, I use even after they make me stop. As Aris says, "Persistence beats out resistance."
Signature Some days, some nights; some live, some die in the way of the samurai. Some fight, some bleed; sun up to sun down; the sons of a battle-cry.
BlackPriest
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#93 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Cosmic_Castaway
Another gimmick in T6 that has these sort of "broken" properties is Lars' u/f+3.


Loving your 'your momma' joke told by Aris in your sig btw.

Will watch your vids tomorrow btw...
Cosmic_Castaway
Dark Knight
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From: USA Delaware
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#94 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by BlackPriest
Loving your 'your momma' joke told by Aris in your sig btw.

Will watch your vids tomorrow btw...

DUDE, I almost fainted in my chair when Aris told me "good shit" over that stream. Made my day.

And thanks, man. Hopefully you don't find them to be tooooo shitty.
Signature Some days, some nights; some live, some die in the way of the samurai. Some fight, some bleed; sun up to sun down; the sons of a battle-cry.
BlackPriest
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#95 “Quote” Edit Post
^ Hahahaha.

I watched the vids now, good stuff mate!

I really really like the variety in the moves you use.

Other than the obvious things most ppl should work on (movement, thow breaks and punishment) I can really not say much.
Maybe practice that CH confirming 1,2,1 (hard, I know) and iWR+2 from range 0, but other than that, very good.

You sure threw out a lot of d/f+1,4's and qcb+2's, but considering you didn't get punished for them I think it wasn't necessarily a bad thing. Just be sure to reduce the quantity if you play an opponent that punishes you.

Note that you can tech King's (and Aking's) GS throw in the open to reduce the damage. Oh and never let a King get away with too many b+1,2's or the d+3+4,3,3,2 string or they'll spam it as if there was no tomorrow.
Against Jin/DJ your punishment was better (aside from a few things like that unpunished hellsweep; this is something you gotta kill them for, because hs is their main pressure low, and you will want them to use is as seldomly as possible), especially whiff punishment was nice in these matches.
And the flying laser must be SS'ed, but I like how you destroyed him for that second laser, lolol.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to downtalk your games, I really liked them and I'm just trying to contribute some constructive criticism.

Last edited by BlackPriest on Jan 27th, 2011 at 16:05

Cosmic_Castaway
Dark Knight
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From: USA Delaware
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#96 “Quote” Edit Post
Oh no worries, BP, I've actually been waiting for someone to give me some actual advice.

-I absolutely need to work on punishment, movement, and throw breaking. Can't agree more there.
-CH confirming 1,2,1 is something I'd say I'm pretty good at, but I do flub it up (i.e. don't complete the string when I should) more than I would like to. So there's something else to work on, along with being more consistent with iWR2, iWS4, etc.
-And yeah, I am trying to reduce the d/f+1,4 and qcb+2 in my muscle memory. They don't seem too bad in those videos, but they could become a bad habit if not put in check.
-I do know GS can be teched, I just suck at it. And I'll make sure to not let him get away with those moves again.
-That stupid, stupid laser...man, if I hadn't killed him for the standing laser, I'd have never forgiven myself.

But I appreciate you taking the time to watch the vids, man. I'll be uploading more as time goes on, because I made myself the youtube channel for my scene. So you'll get to see more of me and the gang eventually.
Signature Some days, some nights; some live, some die in the way of the samurai. Some fight, some bleed; sun up to sun down; the sons of a battle-cry.
BlackPriest
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#97 “Quote” Edit Post
Ok cool, be be sure to keep these vids coming in the vids thread.
BlackPriest
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#98 “Quote” Edit Post
Sorry for the double post...

I sent Murakumo a PM, he just replied by PM and in the thread.

Interesting enough, there is a difference in the recovery if you input the wake-up kick delayed (= if you already started the standing animation). Gotta change the punishers accordingly I guess...
Baekd-not-Fried
1st Dan
Joined: Jul 2010
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#99 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by tyler2k
The tackle animation takes time to perform as well as the cancel takes additional time and finally your command at best will come out in i11 as you're in a WS state. On top of all that the actual roll isn't much of a move to either side, if it was more of a 90 degree move it would be much more viable.

d/b+1+2~1_2_3_4 is gimmicks at best


I've used this gimmick in high pressure situations at the wall once or twice. Say, you get your +4 from ff3 or b4,2,1 if you cancel the last hit into the tackle and then tech you can sometimes have enough time not to get hopkicked and get out of the corner. Its rare though. It has only worked when my opponent doesn't want to take any risks and just finish me with safe hits but wants to keep my back to the wall. Then im all like b4,2,1+2~2 escape wall ~WS2.

P.S i also play againsts scrubs.
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Zoidberg747
6th Dan
Joined: Aug 2011
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#100 “Quote” Edit Post
Thank you so much for this! Very appreciated!

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