Josie Move Analysis and Changes from Bruce

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The Realyst
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#41 “Quote” Edit Post
Just got vanilla T7 here in Dallas. Just curious if f+2,4 is still a 12 frame punish. It feels slow to me. Like maybe it's 13 frames instead. Also, her uf+4 doesn't feel like 15 frames either.
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#42 “Quote” Edit Post
f24 still 12f. uf4 is 15f. T7 kind of feel "slow" but you'll get used to it.
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MCP
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#43 “Quote” Edit Post
edit: Nevermind, there is an FR thread that shows d/b+2.

Hello,
After going through, it seems this is the case.

Josie doesn't have bruce's b,f+4 (safe juggle starting knee) and d/b+3+4 (low sweep with CH launch). I think those should be noted on 1st page.

b+2 gone, but maybe d/b+2 replaces it? I didn't see d/b+2 in the move list video, does anyone have an example?

Move list video I was referencing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ErUk8jvyKk
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Baron West
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#44 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by MCP

Josie doesn't have bruce's b,f+4 (safe juggle starting knee) and d/b+3+4 (low sweep with CH launch). I think those should be noted on 1st page.



Knee Launcher being gone is a terrible nerf. The fact that no one even mentioned b,f+4 being removed on the first page says a lot about how little it is used, and how much b+2 is spammed. No more bbf+4 to backdash and launch punish? That sucks. Hopefully they fixed 3+4 so that Lili can't sidewalk it anymore.
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The Realyst
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#45 “Quote” Edit Post
I dunno man... I think people need to get more acquainted with Josie's df+2. This is tool that Bruce never had. It's obscenely good especially if you can read when your opponent is coming in. It has a huge, almost phantom hitbox, high crushes, launches on normal hit... She can backdash and df+2 instead of backdash b,f+4.
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MCP
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#46 “Quote” Edit Post
d/f+2 is -13. I used b,f+4 a lot merely because it was safe on block.

Also if I understand correctly, she doesn't have f,n,d,d/f+3+4 except a one time use in rage. I'll miss that mid.

Anyways, I'm not going to complain too much. I'm just not going to play her.
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Tuco
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#47 “Quote” Edit Post
Top 10/15 moves in your opinion? So far I'd say:

- df4 switch mixups or cancel into forward cd mixups
- df2 crushes highs (?), good range
- uf3 orbital launch, crush properties, though worse range compared to others
- 124 switch mixups or cancel into forward cd mixups
- df1,4 old bruce stuff
- cd3/cd2 old bruce stuff
- uf4 hopkick
- df3,2 hold forward cd mixups
- ff4 homing move
- b3 homing move
- ff3 plus on block
- 3,2 hold forward cd mixups or simply 3,2
- d4 this is such a nerf compared to bruce's d4, but still a good low (maybe)

can't really think of much else atm. she feels different to bruce, even though they share a lot of things. I mean, she really is all about mixups, while bruce was more into whiff punish I guess? With b2, bf4 gone can't really play that way anymore
Space-Control
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#48 “Quote” Edit Post
To add to your list of top moves

B+4_B+4, 3: probably my favorite poke with her.
1, 2, d+4_2, d+4: tricky low that opens up lots of space and leaves her at +frames.
Magic 4: easy CH juggler with no repercussions.
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#49 “Quote” Edit Post
I think best punish is 1,2,2 because it's NC, also good move is f+1+2 It's give you free df1,4,2 on hit or ch and it's safe on block, but in what moment u use 1,2,4?
The Realyst
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#50 “Quote” Edit Post
SWS mixups are ok if your opponent doesn't have a standing 4. If they do, it turns into high risk, high reward.

Bruce's d+4 was -17 on block and like -3 on hit. Josie's is -10 on block, +1 on hit. I don't understand how this is a nerf... Bruce's is slightly faster. That's all it has compared to Josie's

I would 2,4 instead of 1,2,4 unless you know the 1,2 will hit. Get ready to use 2,3 though if they start reacting.

db+2 is really good. High crushes consistently, wall splats and only -11 on block. Here's my list. No order.

4
3
df+2
df+3
f,f+4
d+4
f+3+4
df+3
cd+3
u_uf+3
f,f+3
1,2,2
df+4 (only of the opponent doesn't have 11 frame standing 4)
ws+3
f+1+2
db+2

Last edited by The Realyst on Jun 6th, 2017 at 23:27

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Space-Control
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#51 “Quote” Edit Post
If you're having problems with your d/f+4~mix-ups getting interrupted, then start throwing out some b+4, 3.
The b+4 looks almost identical to d/f+4, but the 3 followup is uninterruptable. This will train your opponent to hesitate before trying to poke you out of your mix-up.
The Realyst
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#52 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Space-Control
If you're having problems with your d/f+4~mix-ups getting interrupted, then start throwing out some b+4, 3.
The b+4 looks almost identical to d/f+4, but the 3 followup is uninterruptable. This will train your opponent to hesitate before trying to poke you out of your mix-up.


The only interruption I'm concerned with is standing 4. But I'll try b+4,3 out against friends tomorrow and let you know how it goes. Thanks!
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Space-Control
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#53 “Quote” Edit Post
I saw a video where Bryan blocked Josie's 2, 4 and hit her with a Jet Upper!!! I don't know if it has that big of a gap there or if the Josie player just didn't input a stance move fast enough.
But either way, be wary of using 1, 2, 4 or 2, 4 for footsies. Seems like they were intended for juggle fillers only.
Tuco
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#54 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Space-Control
To add to your list of top moves

B+4_B+4, 3: probably my favorite poke with her.
1, 2, d+4_2, d+4: tricky low that opens up lots of space and leaves her at +frames.
Magic 4: easy CH juggler with no repercussions.


Yeah, these ones are all good. 124 is a bad habit of mine, probably useless. Better use 24

Originally posted by The Realyst

Bruce's d+4 was -17 on block and like -3 on hit. Josie's is -10 on block, +1 on hit. I don't understand how this is a nerf... Bruce's is slightly faster. That's all it has compared to Josie's

4
3
df+2
df+3
f,f+4
d+4
f+3+4
df+3
cd+3
u_uf+3
f,f+3
1,2,2
df+4 (only of the opponent doesn't have 11 frame standing 4)
ws+3
f+1+2


Josie's d4 damage is like half, or even less I think, than the Bruce one. I mean, if I'm playing against her, I dont mind if I get hit by d4 3/4 or even 5 times, the damage is really low. Bruce on the other hand? 3 or 4 of those d4 and half of your bar was gone

Nice list, I knew I forgot to mention a lot of good moves in my post.
The Realyst
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#55 “Quote” Edit Post
So you would take that little extra much damage, but get launched if it gets blocked over having half the damage with a safe low that's plus on hit? To each there own I guess. In my experience, people do not want to eat that low all day. They will duck or try to parry.
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Landonio
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#56 “Quote” Edit Post
Apologies if this has been asked before, but does anybody have a comprehensive list of punishes for Josie? I need her 11 and 13 framer punishers.
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JuliaChangBFF
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#57 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Landonio
Apologies if this has been asked before, but does anybody have a comprehensive list of punishes for Josie? I need her 11 and 13 framer punishers.


i10 = 1,2,2 (NC +9 on hit, -13 on block), or 1,4,3 (NC &-15 on block) [1,2,2 is better];
i11 = b+1,1 (+ on hit) or b+1,2 (NC) (-5 on block);
i12 = f+2,4 (-12 on block);
i13 = 3, if I remember correctly;
i13 (from crouch) = ws+2,1; and
i14 = u/f+3+4 (-13 on block) or f+1+2 (-5 on block (has low crush property)).

Hope this helps!

Last edited by JuliaChangBFF on Jun 8th, 2017 at 22:18

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Landonio
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#58 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by JuliaChangBFF
i10 = 1,2,2 (NC +9 on hit, -13 on block), or 1,4,3 (NC &-15 on block) [1,2,2 is better];
i11 = b+1,1 (+ on hit) or b+1,2 (NC) (-5 on block);
i12 = f+2,4 (-12 on block);
i13 = 3, if I remember correctly;
i13 (from crouch) = ws+2,1; and
i14 = u/f+3+4 (-13 on block) or f+1+2 (-5 on block (has low crush property)).

Hope this helps!

Thanks brew.

EDIT: Is 3 really the best 13-frame punish? Because I don't think it NCs into anything.

Last edited by Landonio on Jun 10th, 2017 at 04:14

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Shadow X Jin
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#59 “Quote” Edit Post
Her db/4 series definietly deserves a mention in top 10 imo.

d/b+4 is a 16 frame safe mid that gives pushback
d/b+4,2 is -11 but d/b+4,2>3 can catch those trying to punish it. Giving you the same follow up as CH WS+3
Not to mention that the whole string pretty much moves her the whole damn screen length and is NCC which gives 48 damage

Last edited by Shadow X Jin on Jun 10th, 2017 at 21:37

JuliaChangBFF
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#60 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Landonio
Thanks brew.

EDIT: Is 3 really the best 13-frame punish? Because I don't think it NCs into anything.


I forgot about u/f+4 for i13; my apologies.
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